Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, January 19, 2013

BravesJournal: Some Evidene of a Greenie Effect

He opined that (1) the effect of amphetamines should be most pronounced on day games after night games; (2) batting should be more affected than pitching, on the grounds that even Whitey Ford probably drank a little less the day before he was supposed to pitch; and (3) the effect should be bigger in the 1970-74 period than in the 2006-2010 period, since in the latter period there was testing; indeed, in the prior period I don’t even think it was illegal.

He then said: “Hey, JonathanF: you’ve put together a database of every baseball game ever played. Can you try it?” So I did. I really didn’t expect to see anything, so I was a little surprised.

Taking every game from those two periods, I compiled a simple TeamOPS number for every game (H+W)/(AB+W) + (H+D+2*T+3*H)/AB. I then compared the average teamOPS (simple averages here – you don’t do anything fancy when you don’t think you’re going to get anything) separately for day games after night games (which I called greendays) and all other games.

I did this year by year and got the following results. The “difference” column measures the team OPS difference between greendays and non-greendays. The bold results are statistically significant.

Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: January 19, 2013 at 02:06 PM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, peds

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:07 PM (#4350647)
I'm sure there still is no spoon, of course.
   2. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2013 at 05:53 PM (#4350666)
This is really like half of an article. There would be a lot more work needed to show anything.

For example, team OPS might be affected by backup catchers being more likely to play in day games after night games. Or, as a commenter mentioned, that lights are much better today than previously, making the difference less pronounced.
   3. John Northey Posted: January 19, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4350676)
I think the point of the article is to show a potential effect and encourage others to do some deep digging to see if the initial effect is a real one.
   4. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: January 19, 2013 at 07:01 PM (#4350682)
Yeah, I don't think Jonathan or Alex are presenting this as a conclusive finding. It's more of a "I had this conversation at the bar and decided to run a simple scan of the numbers, and unexpectedly, this came up." What I do like, and what I thought was link worthy, is that he actually bothered to put together a hypothesis and test it.
   5. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2013 at 07:45 PM (#4350691)
Yeah, I don't think Jonathan or Alex are presenting this as a conclusive finding. It's more of a "I had this conversation at the bar and decided to run a simple scan of the numbers, and unexpectedly, this came up." What I do like, and what I thought was link worthy, is that he actually bothered to put together a hypothesis and test it.


The piece is titled, "Some evidence of a greenie effect." But there is no evidence. There's the lack of negative evidence. That's the most you can claim.
   6. booond Posted: January 19, 2013 at 07:58 PM (#4350694)
It should be titled "Interesting Data on Day Games after Night Games." I'm not denigrating any of the work they did but there isn't much here to tie this phenomena to amphetamines.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: January 19, 2013 at 10:42 PM (#4350759)
I'm not denigrating any of the work they did but there isn't much here to tie this phenomena to amphetamines.

No, but one guy tossed out an hypothesis about what a greenie effect would look like and the data are superficially consistent with that. But of course you're right in that you would never be able to ascribe this to greenies with anything remotely resembling certainty no matter how much data you had.

For example, team OPS might be affected by backup catchers being more likely to play in day games after night games.

This would lead to a lower OPS in day games after night games, not higher. (OK, some backup Cs are better hitters, worse defenders than the starters but not generally). Other backups are more likely to play day after night too. But the playing of backups on day after night might be more common now than 30-40 years ago (I have no idea).

Lights are worth checking out but just in general you'd need to start with your standard day/night split. Somebody else can do the legwork on all the years but for 1971 MLB, they hit 27 points of OPS better in day games overall so the 16 point bump in day after night looks trivial compared to that. If anything, that's evidence that greenies not greater than a night of boozing. In 2006 they actually hit 2 points worse in the day but that puts the observed effect 13 points lower than the overall effect which is essentially the same effect of day after night (vs. overall day/night) seen in 1971.

   8. Dale Sams Posted: January 19, 2013 at 11:51 PM (#4350787)
So far as I can tell, Amphetimines became prescription only in 1965 and a Class II drug in 1971.
   9. jdennis Posted: January 20, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4350898)
the effects seem pretty minimal. people make the argument that logically equates amphetamines to steroids as PEDs, and while those people would even say that the effect wasn't as big, that change is very small compared to the blatantly obvious steroid effect. also, didn't the dh come into effect during the window?
   10. AJM Posted: January 20, 2013 at 06:00 PM (#4351092)
blatantly obvious steroid effect

There's a blatantly obvious steroid effect?
   11. Morty Causa Posted: January 20, 2013 at 06:06 PM (#4351099)
Steroids synthesize with protein to make muscle. Do greenies?
   12. cardsfanboy Posted: January 20, 2013 at 07:28 PM (#4351294)
There's a blatantly obvious steroid effect?


Yes, look at all those records that guys like Bartolo Colon and Manny Alexander set.

   13. Walt Davis Posted: January 20, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4351513)
From Dr Gary Wadler himself:

Baseball's steroid-testing program is now in its fourth season and its third incarnation, having been strengthened twice under pressure from the federal government. However, until last November baseball had resisted banning amphetamines, synthetic stimulants that, some within the game argued, were not true performance-enhancers -- an assertion that is contradicted by leading authorities on the use of drugs in sports.
ad_icon

"There was a huge outcry [in the scientific community] when baseball claimed there was no evidence that amphetamines were performance-enhancing," said Gary Wadler, a professor of medicine at New York University and a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency. "But stimulants can be potent performance-enhancers."


source

Amphetamines were also among the first things banned in the Olympics in 1968.
   14. rfloh Posted: January 20, 2013 at 11:57 PM (#4351598)
Steroids do not synthesise with protein to make muscle. Neither do greenies.

   15. rfloh Posted: January 21, 2013 at 12:00 AM (#4351601)
They probably increase protein synthesis, including by increasing dna transciption to mrna, and possibly incrasing satellite cell proliferation and differentiation
   16. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: January 21, 2013 at 12:05 AM (#4351603)
For example, team OPS might be affected by backup catchers being more likely to play in day games after night games.


There's also a "house money" effect that could be at work. Day games are almost always the final game of a series, and if the team won the first two games of the series managers are more likely to give a regular player a day off in the third, probably even more so if it's a day game.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Sponsor

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Newsblog[OTP-May] Politico: Congressional baseball game, May 1, 1926
(4434 - 7:58am, May 25)
Last: FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance

NewsblogSI: Alex Sanabia : I didn't know spitter was against rules
(2 - 7:49am, May 25)
Last: Rob_Wood

NewsblogPerry: Hawk Harrelson reacts to blown call by Angel Hernandez
(1 - 7:43am, May 25)
Last: Rob_Wood

NewsblogPaul Daugherty: Old-v-New schools of thought
(31 - 7:24am, May 25)
Last: Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey)

NewsblogLATimes: Microsoft unveils new Xbox One console
(40 - 7:09am, May 25)
Last: Dan

NewsblogHHS: Autin: Miguel Cabrera to the max
(33 - 6:54am, May 25)
Last: RMc and His Roster of Rubbish

NewsblogCurtis Granderson has fractured left pinky finger
(13 - 6:51am, May 25)
Last: Matt Waters

NewsblogMLB: Don Sutton never shy about voicing his opinion
(18 - 6:38am, May 25)
Last: Harveys Wallbangers

NewsblogFanGraphs: Cameron: The 2013 Cubs: Better Than We Think
(44 - 6:22am, May 25)
Last: Arnett Mead (Arjun)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, May 2013
(1163 - 6:14am, May 25)
Last: Arnett Mead (Arjun)

NewsblogOT: NBA Monthly Thread - May 2013
(1277 - 5:45am, May 25)
Last: Athletic Supporter gangnam style

NewsblogFox Sports: McLouth catch earns thrown beverage
(14 - 5:08am, May 25)
Last: rlc

NewsblogFay Vincent: THE UMPIRE FIX
(11 - 4:36am, May 25)
Last: Swedish Chef

NewsblogMarchman: Why Even Have Baseball's Draft?
(12 - 4:02am, May 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for May 24, 2013
(93 - 1:14am, May 25)
Last: cardsfanboy

Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats

 

 

 

AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets.

For wholesale prices on baseball gifts and equipment, check these stores out!

Baseball Autograph Signings
Baseball Card Supplies
Baseball Memorabilia
Baseball Collectibles
Baseball Equipment
Baseball Protective Gear

Page rendered in 0.1749 seconds
51 querie(s) executed