Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, September 14, 2010

Brent Lillibridge channels inner ‘nerd’

On the eve of what can be described as a do-or-die series against the Minnesota Twins, Chicago White Sox second baseman Brent Lillibridge was so excited he sounded like a kid in a candy store.

Or a video game geek in line for the latest version of “Halo.”

“Most important night of the year Halo coming out at 12 tonight and yes I’m in a line to get it… Jokes please,” Lillibridge tweeted at approximately 11 p.m. (CT) Monday.

Lillibridge, 26, even tweeted a picture of the line he was standing in, but his enthusiasm was not shared by teammate Mark Teahen.

“Brent, get to bed. Take Gavin, Thornton & Putz with you. Halo will survive the night without you,” Teahen tweeted, referring to pitchers Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton and J.J. Putz.

The White Sox host the Twins on Tuesday night and are six games behind in the American League Central. Lillibridge, a backup who’s had just one at-bat in the past three games, wanted to make sure Teahen knew he would be well-rested for the game, but he has passions other than baseball.

“I promise I’ll be in bed early 2nite Noone wants to win more than I do. As much as I luv playing bball I have a lot of nerd in me,” Lillibridge tweeted.

ESPN targeting the nerd audience I guess - this story was on the front page.

Zipperholes Posted: September 14, 2010 at 05:52 PM | 221 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball geeks, white sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3 > 
   101. The Good Face Posted: September 15, 2010 at 07:41 PM (#3641271)
Moreover, the highest APM Korean player ever, known as JulyZerg, who standardly had APM in the 400-450 range and maxed out (over a very small time sample) at 818, has been a mediocre A-teamer for years. (edit: to be clear, what I mean by 'a-teamer' here is that he played on the A-team, the major league squad, he just wasn't all that good as SC major-leaguers go)

Well, July didn't always do the greatest in Proleague, but he did win three individual league titles, which puts him right near the top in that category...


Yep. While I've never played SC2, having utterly lost interest in RTS games, I know a guy who was a professional SC1 player, and he was perfectly clear that APM was THE most important thing. You could be Hannibal, Alexander the Great and Ghengis Khan all rolled into one, but if your APM dipped below a certain threshold, you could not be an elite player. Click, click, click, meh.
   102. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 15, 2010 at 07:41 PM (#3641272)
Well, July didn't always do the greatest in Proleague, but he did win three individual league titles, which puts him right near the top in that category...


Oh yes, July was definitely at his peak a dominant player. But my point was that he's done basically nothing since winning the OSL in 2008, even though he's sustained his APM. That is, despite having pretty clearly the best or one of the best APMs among Korean pros, he hasn't been that good. That shows that APM is insufficient to be the best. When he was winning three proleagues and the Golden Mouse, he was doing something else in addition to his mega APM, and that 'something else' was what made him a dominant player; his APM alone was insufficient.
   103. Ron Johnson Posted: September 15, 2010 at 07:47 PM (#3641277)
which PC FPS do you tend to play?


Never got into any of them. My preference is for games by Gary Grisby or similar (Currently playing with War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition). All of the details you wanted in strategic board games but which were too much work to track.
   104. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:02 PM (#3641295)
I've been trying to pin down my objection to this sentence, and I think I've got it: I don't think accuracy and precision and maneuverability are essential elements for making a game fun. All games exist on some level of abstraction anyway.


Oh sure, I never said you're not allowed to have fun on a game that's comparatively clunky.

Like I said, I think Wii Sports is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
   105. Nineto Lezcano needs to get his shit together (CW) Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:03 PM (#3641297)
And Marathon is correct. Both games were developed by Bungie. There were (I think) two sequels, but the first one was the best. If they decided to remake the game for PC, I would probably #### myself.


Go sit on a toilet before reading further.

Ready?

Games available for download here.

Windows port here.
   106. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:07 PM (#3641302)
I don't much like fighting or Super Smash Brothers games for the same relentless time-pressed button mashing reason. I once beat some PS1 fighting game on hard the first time I played it using nothing but the low kick button, though. That was fun and surprising. It was kinda' like catching the computer in the MK1 Johnny Cage sweep kick merry-go-round.
   107. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:08 PM (#3641304)
As a result, no console game, even ones that are coming up, has graphics that impress me.

Have you seen/played Heavy Rain?
   108. Barnaby Jones Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:15 PM (#3641307)
I've read a lot of nerdy stuff on this site, but discussing the relative playing styles of professional Korean Starcraft players has got to be up there.
   109. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:16 PM (#3641309)
Females accounted for 21 percent of the industry's total sales growth last year, according to Anita Frazier, a video game industry analyst from the research firm NPD Group.

link
   110. sardonic Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:32 PM (#3641325)
Yep. While I've never played SC2, having utterly lost interest in RTS games, I know a guy who was a professional SC1 player, and he was perfectly clear that APM was THE most important thing. You could be Hannibal, Alexander the Great and Ghengis Khan all rolled into one, but if your APM dipped below a certain threshold, you could not be an elite player. Click, click, click, meh.


Yeah, but that's like saying that it's stupid to play softball because you can't hit a major league fastball. The vast majority of us will never have to face someone who is THAT good at Starcraft. In the "normal people with jobs" division, I don't think there is enough variation in APM where that is the difference in matches. Blizzard has done really good job of matchmaking on Battle.net, splitting players into divisions based on their ability level.

I also wouldn't equate high APM to being even primarily about click speed in the amateur division. I don't click nearly as much as I theoretically could because my clicks are more constrained by figuring out what to do and I'm not as good at splitting my attention between micro-ing battles and keeping my base working.
   111. base ball chick Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:34 PM (#3641328)
paul D

well, i wouldn't hardly call hannah montana goes shopping for hairbrushes/clothes and disney princesses go simpering - gaming.

i meant like - the real thing, say, grand theft auto - how many females compete in tourneys/ go to shows, participate in blogs
   112. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:49 PM (#3641341)
BBC:
There is exactly one female professional Starcraft 1 player (she goes by the alias 'tossgirl'), and she is not very good at all. Now, this is partially a result of it being Korea, and Korea having gender issues that put American gender issues to shame, but it is nonetheless the case.

My understanding of professional gaming is that there are really only three genres that have significant money involved: RTS, primarily Starcraft, fighting games, and first person shooters. My rough understanding is that there is a significant female presence in the top FPS teams, particularly in Counterstrike: Source. I don't have good sourcing for this info, really, because I don't follow the FPS scene very closely, contra my detailed knowledge of professional RTS.
   113. The Good Face Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:56 PM (#3641350)
Yeah, but that's like saying that it's stupid to play softball because you can't hit a major league fastball. The vast majority of us will never have to face someone who is THAT good at Starcraft. In the "normal people with jobs" division, I don't think there is enough variation in APM where that is the difference in matches. Blizzard has done really good job of matchmaking on Battle.net, splitting players into divisions based on their ability level.


I don't think it's stupid to play SC... if the game is fun for you, game on. I was more addressing the notion that SC1 (no clue about SC2) is a game of strategy and tactics. It's not, it's a game of APM with strategic and tactical elements. Like I said, when faced with a capable opponent who APMs over a certain threshold, no amount of strategic or tactical brilliance will allow you to win unless you can also APM at a certain threshold. That doesn't make it a bad game, especially when taking Battle.net's skill matching into account, but it ain't exactly chess either.
   114. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 15, 2010 at 08:58 PM (#3641354)
There are all kinds of women who paly MMOs.
   115. Juan V Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:21 PM (#3641367)
What turned me off RTS* is the "equivalent APM" of the AI. In the Age of Empires games it was too much for me to handle, and it is the critical element to win.

*excluding games made by Paradox, as they are a completely different thing.
   116. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:33 PM (#3641374)
I play chess like you play Starcraft. Games take like half a second. I just barrel my Queen straight through that puny little pawn and into your King. Game, blouses.
   117. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:34 PM (#3641376)
119: But pretty much the opposite is true, too. When faced with a capable opponent who has a sufficiently deep understanding of the game, no amount of APM will let you win unless you also have a pretty deep understanding of the game.

The AI for SC2 is a really good example. On 'very hard,' the AI is actually extremely technically competent; it gets enough stuff, and pulls some truly ridiculous tactical maneuvers that a human could never do; when you watch a replay of a very hard AI, the APM counter goes off the charts, into the low four digits. I beat the very hard AI every time; its unit compositions are only okay and its decision-making is absolutely terrible. It doesn't understand at all when it should attack and when it should defend, and I outmaneuver it every time. Given that I am competent at the core skills of economy and tactics, my vastly superior decision-making outweighs its technical advantages.

Both parts of the game are necessary, and if you lack one, someone with both will crush your face, regardless of how good you are at the other one.

EDIT: that strikes me as pretty good evidence that the description of 'a game of APM with strategic and tactical elements' is just wrong. Technical aspects of the game are on a par with decision-making aspects of the game.
   118. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:39 PM (#3641382)
Biff -- was it you who posted some awesome Korean StarCraft battles a while back? If so, you mind reposting them?
   119. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:39 PM (#3641384)
Dwarfs ready!

EDIT: We've got a flying machine!

EDIT #2: Explosions, kaboom!
   120. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: September 15, 2010 at 09:43 PM (#3641386)
Also -- perhaps a shot-in-the-dark, but did anyone here ever play Splatterball? It was a FPS multiplayer that AOL offered for .99 cents an hour. The graphics were horrible but the community of folks who played was great. Clan matches were weekly and I remember them being pretty intense. The game got shut down and was followed by a "Splatterball Plus", but it never quite caught on like the original.
   121. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 15, 2010 at 10:18 PM (#3641414)
119: But pretty much the opposite is true, too. When faced with a capable opponent who has a sufficiently deep understanding of the game, no amount of APM will let you win unless you also have a pretty deep understanding of the game.


Is this really true? Again I'm speaking as an RTS'er whose frame of reference is Age of Empires, but in, say, Age of Empires 2 no amount of strategy is going to save you from an APM wizard who can get to Castle Age in 16 minutes if you take 24 minutes, even spammed footsoldiers from that age will destroy your economy at that point. I thought I was doing pretty good to get to Castle in 20 minutes and that took me an awful long time to get my build order down pat, some guys were so quick you'd assume they were cheating if you didn't know better.
   122. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 10:33 PM (#3641430)
I mastered Wii Bowling and Baseball. I can throw a 300 game at will (or I could at the end of law school, haven't played one in two years) and could shell home runs off the advanced computer to my heart's content.

Baseball had by far and away the steepest learning curve. New players to Wii Baseball, myself included, have no clue how to time swinging the bat at first. That was satisfying to get down.

I got really good at tennis and then suddenly lost it. Total Rick Ankielitus. Am decent at golf and boxing. Boxing is a f'n workout.
   123. Greg K Posted: September 15, 2010 at 10:47 PM (#3641447)
Is this really true? Again I'm speaking as an RTS'er whose frame of reference is Age of Empires, but in, say, Age of Empires 2 no amount of strategy is going to save you from an APM wizard who can get to Castle Age in 16 minutes if you take 24 minutes, even spammed footsoldiers from that age will destroy your economy at that point. I thought I was doing pretty good to get to Castle in 20 minutes and that took me an awful long time to get my build order down pat, some guys were so quick you'd assume they were cheating if you didn't know better.

I didn't play Ages of Empire that much, so I don't exactly know what you're talking about, but this has always been my issue with RTS games. It seems like there's a blueprint to winning. How much fun can a game be if you go into with this checklist of things you do every game? I'd much prefer a game with enough random luck and variation (or just being new enough to the game) that half the fun is feeling your way through it. Once you've figured out a game to that degree I just don't think I'd find it very fun.

I got really good at tennis and then suddenly lost it.

Same here, although I lost it because my partner took a vicious over-hand smash that ended up destroying the controller on my elbow. It swelled up to the size of a baseball.
   124. NTNgod Posted: September 15, 2010 at 10:50 PM (#3641451)
Currently playing with War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition

Uh-oh, I knew it was only a matter of time until someone pulled out the WITP card.
   125. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 15, 2010 at 11:19 PM (#3641470)
119: But pretty much the opposite is true, too. When faced with a capable opponent who has a sufficiently deep understanding of the game, no amount of APM will let you win unless you also have a pretty deep understanding of the game.


Is this really true? Again I'm speaking as an RTS'er whose frame of reference is Age of Empires, but in, say, Age of Empires 2 no amount of strategy is going to save you from an APM wizard who can get to Castle Age in 16 minutes if you take 24 minutes, even spammed footsoldiers from that age will destroy your economy at that point. I thought I was doing pretty good to get to Castle in 20 minutes and that took me an awful long time to get my build order down pat, some guys were so quick you'd assume they were cheating if you didn't know better.


It is, once you do meet that basic threshhold for mechanical skills. If we're both pretty good at the economy game (which is the biggest APM dump, really), there is an edge in being even better than that, and the best players use that edge to the fullest. But it suffers from diminishing returns, and even perfect mechanics would not help you against a player who, in addition to being competent mechanically, also knew what units to make and when to attack, if you lacked a competent understanding of those parts of the game. Of course, in general, the people who do have excellent mechanics generally have a good understanding of the game.

But I understood 119 as trying to establish the primacy of mechanics by saying that no amount of strategic genius would compensate for not having competent mechanics, against a player who was competent mechanically and strategically. My point is that similarly, no amount of mechanical perfection will help you beat someone competent mechanically and strategically, if you lack that basic strategic competence.

I think part of your confusion is related to the AoE case, as you describe it. I have not played AoE, but I'm not sure the example is an appropriate analogy to SC, because there advanced soldiers are not straightforwardly better than basic soldiers, they just fill specific niches. Every race's basic units continue to be useful even after they've teched up. That is to say, some strategies focus on getting advanced soldiers quicker, and some focus on getting better economy to have more basic soldiers. Both of those strategies are plausible in SC, and your basic units still will do pretty well against advanced units, if you pick the right basic units and the right tactics.
   126. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 15, 2010 at 11:20 PM (#3641472)
Biff -- was it you who posted some awesome Korean StarCraft battles a while back? If so, you mind reposting them?

I don't know if it was me, there's such a huge amount of pro games in just the past few years alone that it's hard for me to recall the best ones.
   127. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 11:24 PM (#3641478)
I recall my friends holding that the herd of Marines was the best Terran strategy.

Did it ever work out that one faction was better than the others? I know all have strengths and weaknesses, but is one ever viewed as winning out the way, say, Britain and Turkey are regarded in Diplomacy?
   128. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 15, 2010 at 11:27 PM (#3641481)
I recall my friends holding that the herd of Marines was the best Terran strategy.

Did it ever work out that one faction was better than the others? I know all have strengths and weaknesses, but is one ever viewed as winning out the way, say, Britain and Turkey are regarded in Diplomacy?


There is a 9-year professional scene predicated on the notion that the races are balanced. Races have had advantages at various times (without any changes occurring in the programming itself) as different players gained prominence and various strategies were figured out, but it is widely accepted by everyone involved that Starcraft 1, in the form it has had for over a decade, is incredibly balanced.
   129. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 15, 2010 at 11:33 PM (#3641485)
Did that require post-release tinkering? Surely it must have. Was anything ever turned up or down to compensate for the Zerg Rush? That's certainly an early complaint I remember.
   130. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:29 AM (#3641579)
Did that require post-release tinkering? Surely it must have. Was anything ever turned up or down to compensate for the Zerg Rush? That's certainly an early complaint I remember.

Yeah, Blizzard had to tinker with the game to get it balanced. They have yet to do it for SC2 from what I hear (Terran seems to be overpoweringly good right now).
   131. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:29 AM (#3641580)
Quite a bit of post-release tinkering, in fact. They patched the standalone Starcraft game up to 1.07, including a total rebalancing of the zerg production mechanics, then released an expansion, Brood War, which added units to all of the races and changed dynamics quite a bit, then patched Brood War with something like ten balance patches. But all of that was finished by 2000 or 2001 at the latest.

Release Starcraft was totally, crazily broken in favor of the zerg, but the issue was that contemporary RTS strategic theory was basically developed through competitive Starcraft, so no one had the resources to realize that release was so broken. Many dynamics and mechanics in the game were not done on purpose, but tricks were discovered through play in ways that Blizzard managed to incorporate into the balance. SC1 really is crazy balanced, but the general consensus of the community is that Blizzard didn't really know what they were doing and pretty much achieved it on accident.

Edit: re: 136, I think that's too strong. Terran has a distinct (but overcome-able!) edge against zerg right now, but that might be a product of strategic development to date. Protoss vs. terran is I think pretty balanced; I play protoss and PvT used to be a terrible matchup for me, but with a lot of practice I've realized protoss have far more resources than I realized. I do think terran is the easiest to play well, and so a lot of lower-skilled players have gotten the impression that terran is overpowered when that might not be the case.
   132. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:56 AM (#3641606)
Currently playing with War in the Pacific Admiral's Edition


Oh, great, that's just great ... I'm already addicted to FM 2010.

I tried to get the previous WitP to work on my PC forever without success.

Sigh.
   133. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 02:07 AM (#3641615)
I was pretty excited. Just had my first round of Bad Company 2 in which I killed more than I was killed and was in the top half in score! I must have found my way onto the tard server or something.

Anyone playing FFXIV?
   134. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 02:15 AM (#3641622)
I tried to get the previous WitP to work on my PC forever without success.

Always blame your video card.

Anyone who's looking for a new one, unless you're getting a good deal on an outlet and are comfortable on the inside (which I do from time to time), you'll always do well building yourself - it's much easier than it sounds.

Generally, big manufacturer systems like Dell or Gateway, even the really good PCs, include some parts that make it difficult to really upgrade or get everything you can out of a PC. For example, if you have a brand name, unless you specifically sought out a model with a good PSU, you almost certainly have a PSU that drastically limits your video card upgrades. And if you can swap out a PSU, you have enough skills to build your PC anyway.

Anyway, I would be so happy if Paradox made Crusader Kings 2. Sadly, it seems to be the least popular of their offerings.

[Just checked out of curiosity and it seems CK2 was announced a couple of weeks ago! Praise W00ten!]
   135. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 02:49 AM (#3641637)
Just curious, Glavine/Maddux, do you post and/or read Team Liquid? That's where I get pretty much all my SC news/information from.
   136. Daunte Vicknabbit! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 02:55 AM (#3641640)
Someone mentioned that the most profitable games seemed to be FPS, RTS, and Fighters.

I would just say that fighters fall way, way behind sports games at this point. At Evo 2010, Daigo won less than $15,000 for making it through a field of 100+ of the best American players and a few really, really good Japanese players (Tokido, namely). There's obviously that one televised Madden show where the winner gets a million, and FIFA is also pretty huge for tournaments and the WCG. An American elite Halo player makes six figures or more with sponsorships, while fighting game players are reduced to ridiculous things like working for and living in the house of a 20-something who wears a Power Glove. Rich celebs pay money to get taught how to play Halo and Madden against their buddies; they don't quite do the same to brush up on their Melty Blood.
   137. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:00 AM (#3641642)
Is there competitive Tecmo Super Bowl? I could totally win some money.
   138. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:18 AM (#3641651)
Jesus Christ you all are #########.

Chrono Trigger and FFVI forever.

edit: also, the people claiming console gamers suck because they lost when playing console setups against comp setups have no idea what "apples to oranges" mean.

also, my aimbot kills all of you on computer yet somehow doesn't work on console.
   139. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:44 AM (#3641663)
Always blame your video card.

Anyone who's looking for a new one, unless you're getting a good deal on an outlet and are comfortable on the inside (which I do from time to time), you'll always do well building yourself - it's much easier than it sounds.


Heh.

Never could figure out what the error was with WitP, I suppose it was some sort of hardware conflict, but I tried forums and every suggestion I could find on line with no results; the box was homebuilt P4 and the v-card was a pretty decent Radeon (for it's time).

Really never had a problem running anything, except for that.

Well, and I couldn't upgrade to an AGP 8x, even though the motherboard (ASUS) supported it. That was pretty frustrating and consumed an intermittent month or so before I threw up my hands.

That prompted the newest build (from scratch) to play, IIRC, Silent Hunter IV.

In general, I find that build your own isn't as cheap as what you can get from the bigger suppliers (bang for the buck as it were), but you get to plan for later updatability and you can choose the quality of the components to a much greater extent.

And ... it's not that hard or time consuming ...
   140. Blackadder Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:53 AM (#3641668)
Chrono Trigger and FFVI forever.


I have to cop to being ever-so-slightly disappointed with Chrono Trigger. Not that it isn't an excellent game--it is--but the story didn't really grab me, and the mechanics weren't as interesting to me as some other Square RPGs.

Final Fantasy VI, on the other hand, is one of the very best games ever made.
   141. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:03 AM (#3641675)
Go sit on a toilet before reading further.

Ready?

Games available for download here.

Windows port here.


I was more thinking of a modern-day update--I knew about the open-source port. :)

Have you seen/played Heavy Rain?


I'd forgotten about that one. It does look impressive. Though I haven't really seen it in action.

I was pretty excited. Just had my first round of Bad Company 2 in which I killed more than I was killed and was in the top half in score! I must have found my way onto the tard server or something.


Nice. Were you in a tank the whole time or something? ;)

Anyone playing FFXIV?


Nope. Is that the MMO?

my aimbot


DIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
   142. NTNgod Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:10 AM (#3641676)
>>> I tried to get the previous WitP to work on my PC forever without success.

Always blame your video card.


Hmm, you haven't seen the graphics on WitP and most of the other hardcore Grog-gy games, have you? Usually cutting-edge circa 1994 stuff :P

Nothing anything made in the last 10+ years couldn't handle in its sleep.
   143. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:21 AM (#3641678)
I remember playing splatterball on AOL a couple of times but in the end I ended up hating all of those FPS games because all every one does is sprint around and throw a zillion bullets in the air. Then you got some bastard who thinks it is entertaining to sit above the regen point and kill everybody as they regen? I can see doing that a couple of times to piss off your buddies but sitting there for an hour? Plus I hated it when the gamers would get super organized and the whole thing would turn into clan matches. It is supposed to be entertainment not a second life.

They look like they have gotten better but now they have gamepads that require you to be born and raised on them to use them so if you grew up on a NES or worse a computer keyboard you are practically screwed when it comes to using these gamepads.
   144. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:30 AM (#3641679)
141: I lurk at TL.net, yeah. In fact, I got the details of July's career from their Liquidpedia, which is pretty much /the/ reference work for Starcraft, though in my defense I knew the outlines of his performances offhand, I just didn't remember dates. I also read gosugamers.net, but the forums at TL are really the center of the English-speaking Starcraft world.
   145. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:08 AM (#3641682)
In general, I find that build your own isn't as cheap as what you can get from the bigger suppliers (bang for the buck as it were), but you get to plan for later updatability and you can choose the quality of the components to a much greater extent.

Yeah, it's not a huge money-saver anymore. Too many good outlet buys are around. I remember building a Pentium 133 about 15 years ago and the parts were like 1400 while it would've cost about 2200 new. You'll never get savings like that now.

As you imply, it's the secondary costs. With the right part decisions, you can really extend the life of your computer when you build it yourself. Having a nice roomy case, solid cooling, and more potential to overclock are quite undervalued commodities.

Of course, my current rig is a modified outlet Gateway. Core 2 Duo 1.86, 2 GB RAM for $470 was a really good buy 3 years ago and I really only had to muck around with the video card.
   146. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:13 AM (#3641683)

Nope. Is that the MMO?


Yeah. Another primate played FFXI at the same time as me some years ago and we were on the same server, though we never actually got around to playing together. So I was curious if anyone was planning on playing it.
   147. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:46 AM (#3641696)
Doom was fun on just a keyboard. Adding a mouse for precise aiming made it too easy to be fun.

If I recall correctly back in the days of FPS and no mouse basically all of your enemies were on the same level as you. No one was below you or above you. Also there wasn't really aiming, you basically got your target in front of your gun and fired away. The original setup was the too easy setup to be fun and it was the adding of diving, ducking, leaning, looking up, looking down, and mouse control that added a bunch of layers of fun.

I think doom or perhaps it was Doom II that introduced enemies on different levels but I believe your bullets would automatically move up or down to hit them.
   148. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:01 AM (#3641698)
Both Dooms were 2D. The first 3D I remember was the first Star Wars FPS with Kyle Katarn or whoever, but I'm sure something predated that.
   149. NTNgod Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:51 AM (#3641708)
Both Dooms were 2D. The first 3D I remember was the first Star Wars FPS with Kyle Katarn or whoever, but I'm sure something predated that.

Dark Forces wasn't completely 3D, either, if you're choosing the narrow definition of 3D FPS (i.e. no Wolfie 3D, no DOOM etc.).

*Completely* 3D didn't happen until Quake.
   150. smileyy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 08:02 AM (#3641720)
Descent was fully 3D, but not *exactly* an FPS in the vein that people think of them.
   151. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 12:00 PM (#3641735)
Anyone playing FFXIV?


I'm waiting for Guild Wars 2. And Civ V. And the next Elder Scrolls.
   152. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:17 PM (#3641769)
Last night I finished Transformers: The War for Cybertron, and I am not joking when I say that that game was awesome. All kinds of fun.
   153. Ron Johnson Posted: September 16, 2010 at 01:53 PM (#3641802)
Hmm, you haven't seen the graphics on WitP and most of the other hardcore Grog-gy games, have you? Usually cutting-edge circa 1994 stuff :P


Absolutely true as far as it goes. But you're forgetting one thing. The graphics are pretty much bolted on later and because they're not a critical part of the game they tend to be buggy.

I've got some save points that I simply have to turn all graphics off to get through. I tend to dial the graphics way down anyhow. Not what I'm playing the game for.

Nothing anything made in the last 10+ years couldn't handle in its sleep.


The forums at Matrix Games are loaded with "doesn't work with my hardware", and the issue generally isn't that the video card is too old. (If it ever turns out to be resolved that is). I'm contemplating upgrading and I worry about some of my old faves.
   154. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:12 PM (#3641869)
Dark Forces wasn't completely 3D, either, if you're choosing the narrow definition of 3D FPS (i.e. no Wolfie 3D, no DOOM etc.).

*Completely* 3D didn't happen until Quake.


You sure? Dark Forces had multi-level maps where characters could be directly standing over or under each other, unlike Doom. You could also aim up and down and jump. Even Boba Fett makes an appearance and flies all around in a jet pack.

Doom was 2D. Characters were never above each other (as in, directly) and even if one was high up shooting your shotgun directly forward hit him. I'm trying to think what Quake had that Dark Forces didn't other than more advanced graphics and such.
   155. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 03:50 PM (#3641910)
I'm not really interested in any other MMO coming out except GW2. This is for the sake of my own sanity. Ditto Civ V--the AI was so cheap at the end of Civ IV that it completely turned me off to the series. Before Civ IV came out, the developers came out and said that Civ IV wouldn't have cheap, gamist AI like the previous entries in the series. They also said that you could win without fighting. But, ten years before you're about to win in Civ IV, every single damn civ breaks all their economic contracts with you and declares war on you. Thus, you can't support an army anymore, and you can't culture-bomb them, so you lose--after spending like five hours playing. #### Sid Meier.

Are there pics of the next Elder Scrolls game yet? I haven't heard that that's coming out.

Last night I finished Transformers: The War for Cybertron, and I am not joking when I say that that game was awesome. All kinds of fun.


This game was unfairly panned in some circles. I guess if you didn't like or didn't know about Transformers, it doesn't make sense to buy it. But if you do (like 90% of the gaming world) like Transformers, the game is awesome.
   156. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:08 PM (#3641925)
Dark Forces let you look up and down but it wasn't a free wheelin FPS that allowed you to look and shoot everywhere. Descent which came out shortly after Dark Forces was a total 3D world but it relied on the keyboard. I believe Quake was the first one to really utilize a mouse so that one could look and shoot anywhere they wanted.
   157. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:19 PM (#3641935)
I see whatcha' mean.
   158. Papa Squid Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:27 PM (#3641946)
This game was unfairly panned in some circles. I guess if you didn't like or didn't know about Transformers, it doesn't make sense to buy it. But if you do (like 90% of the gaming world) like Transformers, the game is awesome.


Am enjoying it, but had to put it on easy -- I kept running out of ammo and getting killed! I also had to put it on easy to beat Ares in God of War (but I did beat GoWIII on normal). I stopped playing Metal Gear Solid 4 because I kept dying. Guess I'll put that on easy, too! I suck at video games. Too many buttons!
   159. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:29 PM (#3641948)
You sure? Dark Forces had multi-level maps where characters could be directly standing over or under each other, unlike Doom. You could also aim up and down and jump.


It was 2.5D, like Duke Nukem 3D. I believe #155 is correct that Quake was the first fully 3D FPS title for the PC.

Mike
   160. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:34 PM (#3641952)
And the next Elder Scrolls.


It'd be nice if they decided their game engine was pretty enough and spent the last 4 years working on AI, but of course we know AI doesn't impress in screenshots. Maybe Gothic4 will recapture some of the Gothic2 magic and I'll have an RPG worth playing.
   161. The Good Face Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:42 PM (#3641957)
Are there pics of the next Elder Scrolls game yet? I haven't heard that that's coming out.


As far as I know, no announcement has been made regarding a new Elder Scrolls game. Doesn't mean they don't have something in development, but it doesn't bode well for a release in the next year or so.
   162. Swedish Chef Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:42 PM (#3641958)
The first 3D I remember was the first Star Wars FPS with Kyle Katarn or whoever, but I'm sure something predated that.

Battlezone was 3D in 1980.
   163. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:49 PM (#3641964)
Was Spore any good? Looked like the coolest idea ever but the post-release reaction was kind of middling. I never had a machine that could run it so I never bothered to get it.

I played Black & White for a bit. That was more impressive than it was fun.
   164. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:51 PM (#3641965)

As far as I know, no announcement has been made regarding a new Elder Scrolls game. Doesn't mean they don't have something in development, but it doesn't bode well for a release in the next year or so.


I think they're working on the important parts of the game right now - shinier armor, more listless NPCs with realistic slouches, monotone dialogue, and an advancement system where you can get maximum scores in all attributes without trying too hard.
   165. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:53 PM (#3641968)
I've got some save points that I simply have to turn all graphics off to get through. I tend to dial the graphics way down anyhow. Not what I'm playing the game for.


So, what's everyone's craziest video game achievement?

Mine? Finishing King's Quest III recently on my original playthrough...that started in 1988. The saved games traveled from PC to PC over the last two decades and I finally beat it (I'd play it a little every few years).
   166. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:54 PM (#3641971)
I still remember playing that game at our local miniature golf course park. The three games I remember it having were battle zone, space invaders, and asteroids.
   167. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:58 PM (#3641975)
So, what's everyone's craziest video game achievement?

Geez, I guess I was never that dedicated to my games. I usually played my games pretty hard core for a few months and then went on to the next title. So the craziest thing for me would be something like playing 15 or 20 seasons as the Buffalo Bills in Front Page Sports or playing 10 or so seasons in NHL Face Off or whatever that old hockey game was called.
   168. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 04:58 PM (#3641976)
Oh, and let me add that for $5 from Steam the original X-Com UFO Defense will take over your life.

I played up until my first encounter with the xenomorph lookalikes where my squad, like apparently all squads the first time you run into the xenos at night, got totally and completely massacred. Some real Dien Bien Phu #### here. It was like Stalingrad but with aliens and zombified troops. Ugh.
   169. Dan Szymborski Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:00 PM (#3641977)
Vanilla Oblivion had issues, but the mod community was excellent and really made the game awesome.
   170. The Good Face Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:01 PM (#3641980)
I think they're working on the important parts of the game right now - shinier armor, more listless NPCs with realistic slouches, monotone dialogue, and an advancement system where you can get maximum scores in all attributes without trying too hard.


Well, you'll be singing a different tune when you're feasting your ears on not one but THREE separate inane conversations about mudcrabs. That's the kind of verisimilitude that's worth years of development time.
   171. BFFB Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:19 PM (#3642001)
(Of course, all Halo players are essentially minor-leaguers to the mouse-and-keyboard FPS crowd. Try taking off the training wheels and giving a real FPS a go, you wimps)


I found FPS's on consoles to be really bloody hard compared to PCs until I read the manual properly and found the auto-target lock-on trigger function, then it became disappointingly easy :(
   172. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:21 PM (#3642005)
Vanilla Oblivion had issues, but the mod community was excellent and really made the game awesome.


Not awesome, but they did make the game playable. They couldn't fix the lousy dialogue system, or the braindead NPC AI (I do think there was an AI improvement for monsters), but every little bit helped. I dunno, maybe I should give Oblivion another shot with the most popular mods but I was really underwhelmed when I tried playing it previously, and I love a good RPG.

You know what's a good RPG that really benefited from community mods and patches? Vampire: The Masquerade. The original game was shipped in an awful state but after something like 30 community patches it's a great RPG (admittedly saddled with an unimpressive combat system) especially if you're sick of trolls and elves. I'm playing through it again now with a new vampire clan and it really is an impressive job by the fanboys to get this thing into shape. <$10 and worth every dime if you like RPGs.

And if you missed out on Arcanum, shame on you.
   173. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:34 PM (#3642018)
I tried playing a FPS on a console maybe 5 years ago and I was basically like Stan's dad in south park. Stuck to a wall and completely helpless. Basically all I could do was spin in a circle and firing my guns until the bullets ran out. I need a trackball and a keyboard to play FPS.

And on that note I cannot believe how expensive computer equipment has gotten. I got a laptop a few years back and it took me awhile to get used to the whole pad at the bottom of the keyboard and it still makes playing games difficult so I went to the store to buy a mouse or a trackball and I think the cheapest option is something like 50 bucks. I went to 3 or 4 different stores and it was the same story at all of them. It seemed virtually impossible to buy a 5 dollar mouse or a cheap trackball. In the old days I could pick up a trackball for something like 20 bucks but unless I go hunting online I don't think it is possible to do that anymore.
   174. with Glavinesque control and Madduxian poise Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:39 PM (#3642025)
So, what's everyone's craziest video game achievement?


When I was playing World of Warcraft, immediately after the first expansion came out, I was among the first on the server to enter the new endgame material. For the two weeks it took me to achieve the new max level, I spent significantly more time playing WoW than I did sleeping.
   175. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:43 PM (#3642033)
And on that note I cannot believe how expensive computer equipment has gotten. I got a laptop a few years back and it took me awhile to get used to the whole pad at the bottom of the keyboard and it still makes playing games difficult so I went to the store


You went TO THE STORE?

[Nelson] HAW HAW! [/Nelson]

Seriously dude.
   176. Chicago Joe Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:48 PM (#3642037)
Did anyone else have trouble with the AOE III patch completely screwing up the game...."invalid IP address"...feh.
   177. Daunte Vicknabbit! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 05:55 PM (#3642043)
My most impressive gaming accomplishment is probably the time that I got through kid portion of Ocarina of Time in 1:50 when I was in middle school. My friend and I practiced the everliving #### out of that game and beasted on the time despite not knowing any of the glitches or secrets that speedrunners today abuse.

MMO-Wise I was in the number 4 guild on probably the best or second best Everquest server during the peak of raiding. This isn't something particularly difficult except when you realize that EQ guilds were generally much tougher on applicants than WoW guilds have ever been and I was a 15 year old in a guild dominated by people in their 20s and 30s.
   178. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:08 PM (#3642061)
When I was playing World of Warcraft, immediately after the first expansion came out, I was among the first on the server to enter the new endgame material. For the two weeks it took me to achieve the new max level, I spent significantly more time playing WoW than I did sleeping.

This is probably what I'll be doing when Cataclysm comes out if I'm still unemployed...
   179. Spivey Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:11 PM (#3642070)
I found FPS's on consoles to be really bloody hard compared to PCs until I read the manual properly and found the auto-target lock-on trigger function, then it became disappointingly easy :(

Halo doesn't have this. In fact a lot of console FPSs don't have this. The ones that do you can turn it off. Though to beat a game like MW2 on a difficult setting I don't think it's possible without this turned on.
   180. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:12 PM (#3642072)
Most impressive video game feat. Hmm. Well, like I said, I once beat a game in a genre I'm unfamiliar with using nothing but the low kick button.

I'm pretty much unbeatable at that truck-racing arcade game with the three steering wheels and nitro boosts.

I'm great at air hockey. I think about going to the tournaments out west.
   181. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:17 PM (#3642081)
So, what's everyone's craziest video game achievement?

Mine are all related to text adventures. I finished Planetfall in three days.


Oh man, those old-school Infocom text adventures were great. Almost all of them are
available to play online too. Might crank up Enchanter just for old times sake.
   182. Lassus Posted: September 16, 2010 at 06:39 PM (#3642117)
Oh man, those old-school Infocom text adventures were great.

Hitchhikers Guide for IBM is pretty much my sole computer game experience. Unless you count the pre-history "Hammarabi" game I sat at for four hours in the Metro Toronto Science Center as a kid.
   183. Mike A Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:11 PM (#3642153)
Beating Mike Tyson. OK, granted, it's probably not my greatest video game achievement, but there was nothing more rewarding than taking Iron Mike down.

It's too hard for me to keep up with the kids these days. Like many here, I could never get used to FPSes with the controller. That coupled with my reaction speed waning...means I'm better served offline or playing non-twitch games like Forza 3.

For the record, I still have my copy of Zork for the TRS-80.
   184. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:29 PM (#3642167)
So, what's everyone's craziest video game achievement?


I'm sure there are others (not because I'm great at games but because I've been playing them for 30 years), but I once played a single game of Columns (Sega Genesis) for three hours. I think I finally got bored enough to make a mistake.

I also played a season of NHL 2K for the Dreamcast where every forward on my team had at least 100 goals. All you had to do was deke to the backhand, then switch to forehand. Easy score every time. My average score was something like 30-1.
   185. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:31 PM (#3642172)
Actually, I think my greatest achievement has been staying sane for the amount of time it is taking for a new Half-Life game to come out. Seriously, it's like waiting for a new George R.R. Martin book.
   186. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:37 PM (#3642176)
Actually, I think my greatest achievement has been staying sane for the amount of time it is taking for a new Half-Life game to come out.


Valve software to have "three big announcements".

I'd guess one of them would be the release of Duke Nukem Forever, but Gearbox Software already did that.
   187. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:45 PM (#3642188)
Hmmm. Hopefully the surprise is that they're making Half-Life 3 instead of Half-Life: Episode 3. Game needs a graphical makeover, and after all this time you'd hope they'd be making a new full game instead of a ten-hour tease.
   188. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 07:50 PM (#3642193)
re 181 I ended up stealing a mouse from school.

I actually remember hammarabi. I never got it but always wanted it because I found out about it in 6th grade when we were learning about ancient cultures.

anyone else remember getting those catalogs which were basically full of glorified shareware titles made by computer geeks in their basements? I think the best games to come out of that was the scuba diver avoiding sharks and the fishing game. At some point I remember our local hardware store selling 5 1/4 floppy shareware titles for 3 to 5 bucks each. If I remember correctly I think that is how I got duke nukem, commander keen, and wolfenstein. Actually I think I got keen by downloading it off aol for 12 hours.
   189. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 08:02 PM (#3642200)
I think the best free game ever is scorched earth. Simply an awesome game and still available in it's original form.
   190. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 08:17 PM (#3642217)
Actually I think I got keen by downloading it off aol for 12 hours.


Damn, you must have had a pretty fast internet connection.
   191. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3642223)
yep, 2400 baby. Woohoo
   192. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 08:49 PM (#3642252)
200!

[Spikes football, does dance]
   193. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:08 PM (#3642270)
So in summary, console FPS = Pinewood Derby, PC FPS = Daytona 500.
   194. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:24 PM (#3642282)
Console = Daytona 500

PC = Indianapolis 500
   195. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:46 PM (#3642296)
m enjoying it, but had to put it on easy -- I kept running out of ammo and getting killed! I also had to put it on easy to beat Ares in God of War

Here's a tip for Transformers - you need to melee. A lot.
   196. Paul D(uda) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:50 PM (#3642298)
Beating Mike Tyson. OK, granted, it's probably not my greatest video game achievement, but there was nothing more rewarding than taking Iron Mike down.

Me too That was awesome.
   197. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: September 16, 2010 at 09:56 PM (#3642304)
Console = Daytona 500

PC = Indianapolis 500


PC = NBA

Console = WNBA

I do admire their fundamentals though.
   198. Spivey Posted: September 16, 2010 at 10:02 PM (#3642308)
I was able to beat Mario 1 in like 6 or 6.5 minutes, and Mario 2 in like 23. Not as fast as the best speedrunners by any stretch, but still pretty damn good (imo).
   199. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 10:17 PM (#3642319)
for me it would be something like my buddy me going 4 or 5 seasons practically undefeated in nba 97 or nhl 97 and doing so while incredibly drunk.

the other achievement would be winning every single ncaa gamebreaker against anyone throughout my college years except for one game and I almost won that game. I was leading until the end when my buddy scored a td with something like ten seconds left. On the ensuing kickoff I took it all the way to the ten yard line before being brought down with no time left. It was the only time I lost. Notre dame was a juggernaut in my hands.
   200. McCoy Posted: September 16, 2010 at 10:27 PM (#3642331)
favorite atari games
river raid and chopper command

nes
double dribble
mike tyson

computer games
police quest
test drive
front page sports football
earl weaver baseball
lakers vs celtics
civilization
pirates


playstation
ncaa football
nhl

newer games would be something like max payne or one of the mobster gta clones.
Page 2 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Phil Birnbaum
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics, August 2014: DNC criticizes Christie’s economic record with baseball video
(4206 - 6:31am, Aug 20)
Last: Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class

NewsblogRingolsby: Helton's numbers stack up against the best
(62 - 4:44am, Aug 20)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 8-19-2014
(72 - 4:09am, Aug 20)
Last: Dan

NewsblogDerek Jeter's historic hit that tied Honus Wagner ruled an error by MLB
(3 - 4:01am, Aug 20)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogGammons Notes - 8/17/14
(54 - 3:06am, Aug 20)
Last: JAHV (DanF)

NewsblogPosnanski: The need – the need for speed
(9 - 2:57am, Aug 20)
Last: Cooper Nielson

NewsblogKeidel: Don’t Be Fooled — The Yankees’ Season Is Over
(58 - 2:52am, Aug 20)
Last: TerpNats

NewsblogKepner (NYT): Astros’ Jose Altuve Doesn’t Let Height Be a Disadvantage
(3 - 2:43am, Aug 20)
Last: TerpNats

NewsblogIwakuma gives Mariners a second true ace
(5 - 2:24am, Aug 20)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

NewsblogMinor League manager undresses during epic home plate tirade
(8 - 2:09am, Aug 20)
Last: The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season

Newsblog[Ubaldo] Jimenez to the bullpen
(9 - 2:03am, Aug 20)
Last: 6 - 4 - 3

NewsblogOT August 2014:  Wrassle Mania I
(40 - 1:14am, Aug 20)
Last: steagles

NewsblogPirates activate Andrew McCutchen from the disabled list
(8 - 12:57am, Aug 20)
Last: PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth)

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - August 2014
(271 - 12:40am, Aug 20)
Last: robinred

NewsblogMooney: Javier Baez, Kyle Hendricks aren’t showing any nerves with Cubs
(33 - 11:48pm, Aug 19)
Last: Spahn Insane

Page rendered in 0.8259 seconds
55 querie(s) executed