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Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Brett Lawrie suspended 4 games

This really sucks…for Pedro Alvarez is my back-up 3B.

Toronto Blue Jays third baseman Brett Lawrie will be suspended four games, CBSSports.com Insider Jon Heyman reports.

Lawrie was ejected after arguinga called third strike in the ninth inning of Tuesday night’s game against the Rays in Toronto. After he was ejected, he slammed his helmet on the ground and it bounced off the ground and hit umpire Bill Miller.

 

Repoz Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:14 PM | 45 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: blue jays

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Leroy Kincaid Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4133229)
arguinga called third strike

Is that the umpire's name?
   2. mr. man Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4133231)
the Jays are appealing; for those of you in fantasy leagues, Lawrie will stay in the lineup for the time being.
   3. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4133237)
I just saw the clip. I'm torn on whether or not it was intentional, but he's still an idiot for throwing in down so close to the umpire. Did he really think a glorified piece of plastic wasn't going to ricochet after he SPIKED it at the ground? Probably not, because the way he reacted to the (shitty, shitty) call, it's clear he let his raw emotions override any sort of logical thinking.
   4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4133248)
I thought it would be five. This strikes me as appropriate.
   5. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:39 PM (#4133253)
Bad calls happen, arguments happen, and an occasional temper tantrum happens. Four games is the absolute maximum that this particular tantrum should have resulted in. The best way to deal with this in the future is to have a robot call the balls and strikes and eliminate those goddam "personalized" strike zones. We can then enjoy the 21st century spectacle of batters and pitchers arguing with a machine.
   6. DKDC Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4133262)
This seems very light to me, but I think I’m pretty much done thinking about Brett Lawrie at this point.

Hopefully he grows up.
   7. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:45 PM (#4133263)
I was expecting seven, but this strikes me as good enough.
   8.   Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:47 PM (#4133265)
Uh yeah, pretty sure he didn't "think" about anything. He got angry, he reacted; it was dumb, punishment deserved.
   9. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:07 PM (#4133288)
This really sucks…for Pedro Alvarez is my back-up 3B.


His power seems to have resurfaced...
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4133290)
the Jays are appealing

To whom?
   11. Zipperholes Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4133325)
What a joke. Hitting an umpire with an object, whether intentionally or recklessly, is reprehensible. And any behavior challenging an umpire's call during a game shouldn't be tolerated.

If I were an ump, I'd be sitting tonight.
   12. Brian White Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4133333)
I'm surprised it was this low. I was expecting seven to ten.
   13.   Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:07 PM (#4133342)
If I were an ump, I'd be sitting tonight.


If you were this particular ump, you should be forced to sit tonight.
   14. God Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4133363)
I think the brevity of the suspension amounts to something of an admission on MLB's part that Bill Miller really effed things up.
   15. God Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4133364)
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:09 PM (#4133290)
the Jays are appealing

To whom?


Ahem.
   16. God Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4133366)
Any behavior challenging an umpire's call during a game shouldn't be tolerated.


Are you serious with this crap? Behavior challenging an umpire's call happens, at a minimum, 20-25 times in each MLB game.
   17. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4133367)
I thought the force with which Lawrie threw the helmet in the direction of the umpire would have put a suspension in the 10-15 game range. Seems like this was treated the same as a little bump, which may not be a great precedent. I'm wondering if the decision would have been the same if it hadn't resulted from such a bad and seemingly punitive call.
   18. Zipperholes Posted: May 16, 2012 at 07:47 PM (#4133374)
Are you serious with this crap? Behavior challenging an umpire's call happens, at a minimum, 20-25 times in each MLB game.
Yeah.
   19. shoewizard Posted: May 16, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4133411)
I thought the force with which Lawrie threw the helmet in the direction of the umpire would have put a suspension in the 10-15 game range. Seems like this was treated the same as a little bump, which may not be a great precedent. I'm wondering if the decision would have been the same if it hadn't resulted from such a bad and seemingly punitive call.


I agree with this. Obviously he wasn't throwing the helmet AT the umpire, but his overall aggressive physical move was in the direction of the umpire, he was out of control, and intentional or not, if the result is hitting the umpire with an object, then it's still the same thing. He took overly aggressive action towards the ump, and it resulted in the ump getting struck.

I am surprised it was only 4 games. Should have been AT LEAST 10 games.
   20. Enten Posted: May 16, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4133413)
And any behavior challenging an umpire's call during a game shouldn't be tolerated.


Then neither should umpires' calls as poor as Miller's. Start holding umpires accountable for their constant failures, and then, sure, we can tighten up more on the players.
   21. cmd600 Posted: May 16, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4133415)
And any behavior challenging an umpire's call during a game shouldn't be tolerated.


There's a big difference between this and a manager going out after an ump makes a terrible call and saying "hey blue, are you sure you got that right? Maybe you can ask for some help on this one". The former is obviously inappropriate, but the latter should offend no one, not even the ump.
   22. Zipperholes Posted: May 16, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4133449)

Then neither should umpires' calls as poor as Miller's. Start holding umpires accountable for their constant failures, and then, sure, we can tighten up more on the players.
We can do both. I don't see what one has to do with the other, though.
There's a big difference between this and a manager going out after an ump makes a terrible call and saying "hey blue, are you sure you got that right? Maybe you can ask for some help on this one". The former is obviously inappropriate, but the latter should offend no one, not even the ump.
Does that really ever happen though? Where the umps confer and change a call because a manager or player pointed something out?
   23. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 16, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4133473)
Does that really ever happen though? Where the umps confer and change a call because a manager or player pointed something out?

It happened in a Blue Jays game a few days ago.

The first pitch zipped inside on Bautista and it might have grazed him. The umpire said "Nope."
The very next pitch plunked Bautista on the back/side as he turned away from it.
The umpire did not give him first base! He either thought Bautista didn't make an attempt, or that it (some how) hit his bat!

Naturally, Bautista was livid, and so was the manager. He gestured for the umpire to ask for help on the call, since he obviously ###### up.

The home plate umpire then called in the other umpires, and very quickly reversed the decision.
   24. Zipperholes Posted: May 16, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4133482)
It happened in a Blue Jays game a few days ago.
Thanks. That's a great example. Yeah, I have no problem with that.

Though it's a truly bizarre system where a fellow ump who disagrees with the call can speak up only if asked to, while a player or manager can object all he wants.
   25. Dale Sams Posted: May 16, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4133631)
Though it's a truly bizarre system where a fellow ump who disagrees with the call can speak up only if asked to, while a player or manager can object all he wants.


I was going to point out that linesmen grab the refs attention all the time to point out something they may have missed...but then I remembered that I can't recall ever seeing a linesmen tell a ref he ###### up, and should reverse the penalty call.
   26. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 17, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4133660)
but then I remembered that I can't recall ever seeing a linesmen tell a ref he ###### up, and should reverse the penalty call.

All instances of the linesmen talking to the ref is when he feels that the ref has missed something (error of omission). It's never a case where the ref has made a mistake (error of commission).
   27. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: May 17, 2012 at 12:42 AM (#4133662)
I was going to point out that linesmen grab the refs attention all the time to point out something they may have missed...but then I remembered that I can't recall ever seeing a linesmen tell a ref he ###### up, and should reverse the penalty call.

You wouldn't. They communicate over earpieces these days.
   28. Spahn Insane Posted: May 17, 2012 at 12:49 AM (#4133666)
I just saw the clip. I'm torn on whether or not it was intentional, but he's still an idiot for throwing in down so close to the umpire. Did he really think a glorified piece of plastic wasn't going to ricochet after he SPIKED it at the ground? Probably not, because the way he reacted to the (shitty, shitty) call, it's clear he let his raw emotions override any sort of logical thinking.

I agree with all of this, and for that reason, I think the 4-game suspension's about right.

Christ, what a horseshite call that was on strike 3 (and the one on strike 2 wasn't much better).
   29. Dale Sams Posted: May 17, 2012 at 01:57 AM (#4133676)
You wouldn't. They communicate over earpieces these days.


Not strictly true. In the last Man City game, the linesman waved the ref over to communicate Barton's elbow.
   30. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 17, 2012 at 02:58 AM (#4133684)
I'm totally calling victory in the "how many games will Lawrie get" pool. I said 3-5! Send me the finest bagels and muffins in the land!
   31. Russ Posted: May 17, 2012 at 06:40 AM (#4133702)
Send me the finest bagels and muffins in the land!


I know Montréal has the finest bagels, but who has the finest muffins?

   32. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 17, 2012 at 08:27 AM (#4133716)
I know Montréal has the finest bagels, but who has the finest muffins?


Based strictly on the number of coffee shops per capita, I'm going to guess St. Catherines, Ontario.
   33. depletion Posted: May 17, 2012 at 08:38 AM (#4133721)
How many of those are Tim Horton's? Don't get me wrong. I like Tim Horton's, but I'd refer to them as donut shops rather than coffee shops.
Suspension was too few games. He threw that helmet really hard, really close to the ump. If he had thrown it hard, but away from the ump, or had tossed it mildly at the ump's feet then 4 games or fewer is fine. Ballplayers can throw things much harder than you and I.
   34. mex4173 Posted: May 17, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4133727)
I'm surprised the suspension is only 4 games. As I was watching it I thought there was a non-zero chance Lawrie was going to attack the ump. I think #14 has it right.
   35. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: May 17, 2012 at 09:00 AM (#4133731)
Based strictly on the number of coffee shops per capita, I'm going to guess St. Catherines, Ontario.

Not Amsterdam?
   36. Rants Mulliniks Posted: May 17, 2012 at 09:04 AM (#4133733)
Sicne this is sort of a BLue Jays thread..... Omar Vizquel, please retire.
   37. zack Posted: May 17, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4133759)
Hearing the description of the incident I was thinking 3-5 games, but having finally seen the video I thought it'd be more like 7-10. That was much worse than I guessed.

I guess appealing is routine these days, but they should be able to add suspension on to failed appeals, just so guys would sit out their games immediately once and awhile.
   38. Cris E Posted: May 17, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4133797)
I was expecting a 5-7 opening bid so it would get appealed down to 4. Now it'll be three or two, which seems really low for contact with an umpire.
   39. dze27 Posted: May 17, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4133819)
I'm a Blue Jays fan and I was thinking 10 games. He was like 5 feet away from the ump, was super mad and slammed his helmet down angled straight at the ump. The helmet bounces 2-3 feet away from the ump and is aimed at him. It's not like he angled it 45 degrees away and it took a freak bounce and hit the ump. How is this not intentional? Plus he was pretty obviously trying to intimidate the ump in the verbal confrontation.

As for the ump, that last strike call was straight up crooked. It wasn't remotely a strike and was pretty clearly retaliation for Lawrie's display on the previous pitch. That should not be tolerated by MLB at all and the ump really should get sanctioned. Won't happen, of course.
   40. Rusty Priske Posted: May 17, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4133864)
I think this is the right length because on appeal they will likely shorten it by a game and 3 games is about right for what was clearly unintentional contact. (Torre even thinks so)

He deserves SOME suspension to remind players to be more careful, but that's it.

   41. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 17, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4133869)
He deserves SOME suspension to remind players to be more careful, but that's it.

And if he does anything like that again, I'm fine with the league slapping him with a 10-game suspension.

(And I say that as a Blue Jays fan.)
   42. Random Transaction Generator Posted: May 17, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4133870)
Sicne this is sort of a BLue Jays thread..... Omar Vizquel, please retire.


One of the announcers pointed out that Vizquel was only 150 or so hits away from 3000.

I figure at his current pace, that would take him until 2017.

It was a nice idea to bring him along, if he hit .250 and was a defensive/injury replacement that gets one start a week (somewhere on the infield).

But he's toast. Let him retire and become an infield coach.
   43. bachslunch Posted: May 17, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4133879)
the ump really should get sanctioned. Won't happen, of course.

Do we know for sure on this? I remember reading somewhere years ago (can't remember where) that umps sometimes get fined when they screw things up, but that such disciplinary action isn't made public. Anybody know if that's true or not?

Clearly, the ump botched this up royally. Moreover, this was deliberately provocative behavior by the ump of the type we haven't regularly seen since the heyday of Rich Garcia and his incompetent, fat-a$$ed, cantankerous ilk, most of whom were blessedly purged in the ump's strike attempt back about a decade ago.

Still doesn't excuse Lawrie's actions, though. Two wrongs and all that...
   44. Lassus Posted: May 17, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4133892)
I remember reading somewhere years ago (can't remember where) that umps sometimes get fined when they screw things up, but that such disciplinary action isn't made public. Anybody know if that's true or not?

I know no one cares, but umps who screw up this badly will get their asses handed to them by various and sometimes multiple supervisory umpire figures. How this affects anything else, I don't quite recall, but I've actually overheard one or two of these phone calls as they were made by the supervisors and it wasn't pretty. With the emergence of MLBAM, I guarantee you that no shitty call goes unnoticed by the umpires in charge. Again, I've been out of Replay for awhile so I don't remember anything about consequences, however.
   45. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: May 17, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4133935)
Thanks for that, Lassus. The appearance has always been that there's no discipline, of course; we've inferred that because nothing is made public and it seems that the worst (as we judge) umpires still sometimes get plum postseason work, etc. So it's good to read something a bit more concrete.

I'm not certain, though, that you can ever eliminate this sort of thing in umpiring, which is why I'm one of those annoying nerds that supports mechanized ball/strike calls. But I know that's going to be a long time coming.

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