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Saturday, September 09, 2017

Brewers Jimmy Nelson to miss rest of season | MLB.com

Not good. At least he got a hit.

Jim Furtado Posted: September 09, 2017 at 01:58 PM | 20 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, jimmy nelson

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   1. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 09, 2017 at 04:44 PM (#5529074)
Bah. He's on my DMB team so I'm not pleased.

But it's totally worth a season ending injury to a good starting pitcher on a playoff contender to see pitchers hitting. The Excitement and Purity that Nelson's .105 batting average brought is simply priceless.
   2. shoewizard Posted: September 09, 2017 at 09:28 PM (#5529135)
Another NL pitcher hurt while batting. NL needs to adopt DH.

   3. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: September 09, 2017 at 11:32 PM (#5529195)
If people were to call for pitchers to hit for themselves in the AL every time some slob DH hurt himself, it would be less dumb than this thread. By miles.
   4. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 09, 2017 at 11:40 PM (#5529199)
#3, the comparison makes no sense. A DH is a batter who is capable of hitting in the majors. A pitcher is a batter who is not capable of hitting in the majors.

   5. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5529203)
Flashbacks of Gallardo going down at Wrigley to start the season in '08.
   6. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 10, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5529207)
A DH is a batter who is capable of hitting in the majors. A pitcher is a batter who is not capable of hitting in the majors.


But that has nothing to do with injuries.

If you can demonstrate that pitchers get hurt at a greater rate while playing offense than position players do, then you might be onto something. Otherwise, it's just an emotional argument, not a logical one.
   7. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 12:39 AM (#5529209)
If you can demonstrate that pitchers get hurt at a greater rate while playing offense than position players do, then you might be onto something. Otherwise, it's just an emotional argument, not a logical one.


No. The argument is that a pitcher is being forced to do something that he is incapable of doing. And thus it's silly to lose a pitcher during the course of him doing something that he is incapable of doing.
   8. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 12:46 AM (#5529215)
Think of Canseco getting hurt pitching. It's a different scenario because he wasn't forced by the league to pitch, but it's the same concept: a star hitter got hurt doing something that he wasn't able to do.

And this AP headline from 1993 makes a mockery of the situation, making the point very well:

Canseco Out for Season After Surgery to Reconstruct His Pitching Elbow

July 10, 1993|Associated Press

Texas Ranger outfielder Jose Canseco is out for the season after he underwent surgery on his right elbow Friday in what doctors termed a successful procedure.

The 90-minute procedure involved removing a tendon from Canseco's right forearm to use as a graft to reconstruct a torn ligament.

Canseco was injured during a May 29 game, when he pitched against the Boston Red Sox. A few days later, he complained of a sore arm and back problems.


   9. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 10, 2017 at 01:11 AM (#5529221)
No. The argument is that a pitcher is being forced to do something that he is incapable of doing. And thus it's silly to lose a pitcher during the course of him doing something that he is incapable of doing.


Nah, it's an emotional argument. Pitchers getting hurt doing something they're not paid to do feels more wrong than rightfielders getting hurt doing the same thing, even though you haven't demonstrated how the former is somehow more costly or more frequent than the latter. Most arguments for or against the DH around here are nothing more than attempts to find data- or logic-based arguments for an inherently aesthetic preference.


   10. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 09:17 AM (#5529235)
Nah, it's an emotional argument. Pitchers getting hurt doing something they're not paid to do feels more wrong than rightfielders getting hurt doing the same thing, even though you haven't demonstrated how the former is somehow more costly or more frequent than the latter.


I don't know what "it's an emotional argument" even means, or why you think that rebuts anything I've said.
   11. Howie Menckel Posted: September 10, 2017 at 10:23 AM (#5529247)
Most arguments for or against the DH around here are nothing more than attempts to find data- or logic-based arguments for an inherently aesthetic preference.

aren't you supposed to type "SPOILER ALERT" before those sort of revelations?
:)
   12. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 10, 2017 at 11:19 AM (#5529261)
So should we allow players like Kendrys Morales to have designated runners so they don't get hurt doing something they can't do?
Personally I like the DH but if a pitcher has to hit and run the bases they should be able to. If I see a manager I'd tell my pitcher I'd rather he get tagged out than dive headfirst into a base.
   13. BDC Posted: September 10, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5529262)
Considering that pitchers have injured themselves walking their dog downstairs, or simply sneezing, I think that running bases doesn't greatly increase their risk.
   14. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5529298)
The argument is not that they're more at risk when running the bases. (Although it would be the least shocking news ever if that were true.) The argument is that they're getting hurt doing something that has nothing to do with the reason they were selected to play in the majors.

If a major league caliber pitcher couldn't run to first base he would still be pitching in the majors. We know this, because pitchers can hit .000 and keep their jobs.

On the contrary, if Kendrys Morales could not make it to first base he wouldn't have a job.

(Just like if Kendrys Morales could not get a single batter out when taking the mound he would still have a job.)
   15. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5529305)
And I think if it were somehow a rule that, say, the left fielder had to pitch an inning every game, people would suddenly see the point of the discussion and wonder, "Why are we doing this?"
   16. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 10, 2017 at 02:20 PM (#5529311)
<wrong thread>
   17. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 10, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5529472)
If a major league caliber pitcher couldn't run to first base he would still be pitching in the majors. We know this, because pitchers can hit .000 and keep their jobs.


I wonder if this is an area where a team could find a benefit. Has anyone ever looked into NL teams that get generally "good" hitting performances or unusually poor ones over/under performing? I'm not saying you have Buster Posey pitch or anything but would NL teams benefit from getting their pitchers more competent at the plate? Could the reward outweigh the risk?

I genuinely have no clue how much pitchers work on their hitting. NL pitchers this year are "hitting" .128/.159/.167. How much of an improvement could a genuine focus on that create and would it be worth it? I'd guess not but it might be interesting.
   18. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2017 at 10:55 PM (#5529477)
I don't know what "it's an emotional argument" even means, or why you think that rebuts anything I've said.


It's not really an emotional argument, it's just a bad argument, in so many ways. #3 basically settled the matter.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: September 10, 2017 at 11:27 PM (#5529483)
Ray, if baseball allowed extreme specialization - that is, unlimited substitutions as in football - would you prefer that? It would bring more talent into the game. There are undoubtedly many excellent or even transcendent defenders that never make their marks because they cannot hit well enough. Hitters would no longer need to waste time practicing in the field, and could devote themselves more fully to their craft. If Trout and Harper aren't ever playing on defense because each team has multiple Endy Chavez types, and would prefer to avoid the injury risk anyway, then they can bulk up and get even stronger and more powerful. Unbelievable runners such as Terrance Gore would pinch-run as many as 9 times a game, but of course they'd be running against only the very best defensive catchers.

In short, that game would be like today's NFL, where different positions demand wildly different body types and personalities. Baseball today - with the exception of the pitcher/DH position - is like American football of ironman era, when one fella could lead the league in passing and in interceptions and do the punting too. Just imagine an NFL where Barry Sanders is pathetically trying to hide in the secondary, where Brett Farve is also the placekicker, where Warren Sapp is too damn fat to play every down and is out of the league. Would fans sign up for that?

But if you don't want unlimited substitution - if you like that a team must balance Rey Ordonez's defensive talents with his offensive ineptitude - then you yourself believe in the Excitement and Purity that you are mocking.

   20. Baldrick Posted: September 10, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5529485)
But if you don't want unlimited substitution - if you like that a team must balance Rey Ordonez's defensive talents with his offensive ineptitude - then you yourself believe in the Excitement and Purity that you are mocking.

If you don't like falling inexorably to your death over a steep cliff, you must be in favor of dynamiting all hills and producing a perfectly flat landscape in all directions. It's simple logic!

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