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Saturday, February 22, 2014

Bryan Stow Attackers Plead Guilty

Another chapter in this sad story. Steve Dilbeck opinion piece says they plea bargained.

Marvin Norwood, 30, pleaded guilty to one courtof assault likely to produce great bodily injury and Louie Sanchez, 31, pleaded guilty to one coumt of mayhem. Stow, a paramedic in Northern California, suffered serious head trauma and will require care for the rest of his life from a permanent disability. He has a pending civil lawsuit against the Dodgers and former owner Frank McCourt.

Also a more newsy article in the Washington Post.

Washington Post article

 

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Did that work?

Knock on any Iorg Posted: February 22, 2014 at 03:28 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers, fans, giants

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The Ghost's Tryin' to Reason with Hurricane Season Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:34 PM (#4660912)
One of the guys was smirking as the judge was talking during the sentencing, and the judge noted it. Too bad he couldn't double his sentence.
   2. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:53 PM (#4660916)
Too bad he or somebody else couldn't have planted a much-deserved bullet through his ear.

Also, what the hell is wrong with the formatting on his specific thread? It looks like somebody used a random Game Genie code on it. Anybody else seeing this?
   3. Monty Posted: February 22, 2014 at 11:58 PM (#4660917)
Did that work?

It did NOT!
   4. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 12:14 AM (#4660919)
Wow, this is MAGNIFICENTLY ###### UP!

Whatever you did, Knock on any Iorg, you deserve a medal!!!
   5. Knock on any Iorg Posted: February 23, 2014 at 01:38 AM (#4660927)
Hacker takes down baseball site!

Yeah, if anybody can hear me in this mess, I included a closing tag for url, table, and one other thing so that it wouldn't look like the mess in Esoteric's submission. It really did not work! I guess there isn't much (or any) filtering on the submission box. Sorry Jim.
   6. PreservedFish Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:50 AM (#4660937)
Ooooh, centered. How luxurious!
   7. Swedish Chef Posted: February 23, 2014 at 04:36 AM (#4660938)
"Yeah, if anybody can hear me in this mess, I included a closing tag for url, table, and one other thing so that it wouldn't look like the mess in Esoteric's submission. It really did not work! I guess there isn't much (or any) filtering on the submission box. Sorry Jim."

Closing the table tag was a bad idea, as the layout is a table.
   8. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: February 23, 2014 at 08:18 AM (#4660949)
Stuck in the middle with youse!
   9. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: February 23, 2014 at 09:18 AM (#4660955)
This makes the story seem poetic. I know it's the wrong attitude but I hope these guys have a particularly bad prison experience.
   10. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: February 23, 2014 at 09:26 AM (#4660956)
This is a test. For the sixty seconds this website will be conducting a test. This is only a test.
   11. Publius Publicola Posted: February 23, 2014 at 10:22 AM (#4660967)
I'm assuming they will get the one in the middle of the cellblock.
   12. JE (Jason) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 10:23 AM (#4660969)
Yeah, if anybody can hear me in this mess, I included a closing tag for url, table, and one other thing so that it wouldn't look like the mess in Esoteric's submission.

Way to throw Esoteric under the BTF bus.
   13. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4661006)
Epic thread.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 12:30 PM (#4661011)
4 and 8-year sentences here are ludicrous.

Where was the attempted murder charge?

If you beat someone bad enough to permanently disable them, that's attempted murder.
   15. Publius Publicola Posted: February 23, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4661021)
What a couple of loser scumbags. If I were the judge, I'd tell him "Wipe that stupid smirk off your face Or I'll give you the maximum."
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 12:57 PM (#4661027)
What a couple of loser scumbags. If I were the judge, I'd tell him "Wipe that stupid smirk off your face Or I'll give you the maximum."

Wait, he didn't give them the maximum?!?! What a crappy judge. Why would any judge not give these two the maximum?
   17. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4661031)
4 and 8-year sentences here are ludicrous.

Where was the attempted murder charge?

If you beat someone bad enough to permanently disable them, that's attempted murder.


This last fall I was on a jury in which we had to decide on 25 separate charges for each defendant. Attempted murder was on the table but I believe we went with the lesser charges on them. So anyway we ended up finding one guy guilty of something like 24 charges and the other guy guilty of 22 charges. A couple of months later I looked on the internet to see what kind of sentencing they got for being convicted on all these charges. They got something like 8 to 10 year sentences in total.

Anyway, it is really hard to get a jury to buy into murder with these kinds of incidents.
   18. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: February 23, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4661076)
>>>Way to throw Esoteric under the BTF bus.

And a fine job he did of it, too. WHO'S UNDER THE BUS NOW, HUH?
   19. puck Posted: February 23, 2014 at 02:57 PM (#4661078)
Anyway, it is really hard to get a jury to buy into murder with these kinds of incidents.


Why is that, do you remember from your jury? The one time I was on a jury (armed robbery case) I found the judge's instructions were pretty important--they tended to focus the debate quite a bit. And it didn't happen on my jury but from others' experiences it seems common that juries have a person or two who think "not guilty" and can't be argued out of it.
   20. JLAC is engulfed in a harmless burst of flame Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:02 PM (#4661083)
Yeah I need to get in some of this... Unusual thread.
   21. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:41 PM (#4661098)
Centering still beats the hell out of code violators. Now those guys truly deserve whatever the maximum sentence Furtado can hand out.

   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:44 PM (#4661100)
Anyway, it is really hard to get a jury to buy into murder with these kinds of incidents.

Boy, if you mercilessly beat a guy for no reason, and he ended up crippled for life, it wouldn't be hard to get me to ascribe murderous intent. Or at least gross indifference to human life.

These guys each deserve 20+ years.
   23. BDC Posted: February 23, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4661108)
Hey, suppose we can get the politics thread formatted this way? Everything's either way right or left over there.
   24. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2014 at 06:24 PM (#4661139)
Being a cripple for life doesn't turn something into attempted murder. Murder is all about intent and if the prosecutors don't spend a lot of time proving intent people simply aren't going to go for that charge when there are lesser charges on the board which usually always is. In the trial I took part in initially a bunch of people who for the attempted murder charges for much the same reason it appears you are. They were for it because of what happened afterwards not because of what was actually happening at the moment the crime took place. The judge's instructions were somewhat vague to begin with and when we asked for further instructions we got a one sentence reply that said something like "murder is to kill" or something like that that basically did nothing to clarify the situation. In the end we all agreed to take it off the board and moved on to the lesser charges. Afterwards we talked to the prosecutors and they admitted that they didn't expect the attempted murder charges to stick and it was more like a game theory manipulation than anything else. Both in terms of trying to get the defendants to plea bargain and to give the jury the ease of mind that a choice gives you.

Why is that, do you remember from your jury?

It really depends on what kind of evidence the prosecutors have. If you don't have clear motives and evidence that can be easily shown in open court then it is better to stay away from intent issues. If you can't show the jury in an easy and obvious manner what the defendants were thinking when they committed the crime the stay away from intent and stick to the facts that you can prove. Such as the suspects were found with guns in their car, those guns have been linked to the crime, their DNA is on the guns, their mobile phone records show them to have been in the area when the shooting took place and they normally aren't in the area.
   25. Greg K Posted: February 23, 2014 at 06:29 PM (#4661141)
Hey, suppose we can get the politics thread formatted this way? Everything's either way right or left over there.

Boo, sir. Boo.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 06:31 PM (#4661142)
Being a cripple for life doesn't turn something into attempted murder. Murder is all about intent and if the prosecutors don't spend a lot of time proving intent people simply aren't going to go for that charge when there are lesser charges on the board which usually always is

That's a problem. If you beat someone badly enough to crippled them, then you obviously were willing to kill them.

I don't think the law should care about your actual intent in this case. If you're willing to administer a beating that bad, you're willing to kill.

Also, in a completely unprovoked attack like this, I see no reason the sentence shouldn't be draconian. Quite frankly, I'd have no problem with the death penalty for these two.
   27. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4661144)
That's a problem. If you beat someone badly enough to crippled them, then you obviously were willing to kill them.

I don't think the law should care about your actual intent in this case. If you're willing to administer a beating that bad, you're willing to kill.


you don't get to use words like "obviously" in court. You have to prove the obvious and not in general but specifically, as they pertain to the case. Much harder thing to do in court than on a website.

Quite frankly, I'd have no problem with the death penalty for these two.

Which is why the "rape" question in political debates is such a stupid question. The court system isn't where we let our emotions run amok.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 23, 2014 at 07:02 PM (#4661150)
you don't get to use words like "obviously" in court. You have to prove the obvious and not in general but specifically, as they pertain to the case. Much harder thing to do in court than on a website.

They beat a man so seriously that he is crippled for life. That proves their depraved indifference to human life to anyone who is not hung up on procedural technicalities over actual justice.

Which is why the "rape" question in political debates is such a stupid question. The court system isn't where we let our emotions run amok.

What is "emotional" about saying that if you attack someone without provocation, and they suffer severe and permanent bodily injury, you're subject to the death penalty? I really don't see the downside to society of frying people like this. Execution is certainly closer to the just outcome than 4 years.
   29. boteman Posted: February 23, 2014 at 07:39 PM (#4661164)
From reading the accounts it was not totally "unprovoked". Apparently Stow had words with these guys, then he and his crew parted ways before these two caught up with them again to administer the beat-down. This might have colored the verdict. Plus the fact that, you know, he didn't actually die.

In general, there's a very good reason that limits are placed on the awesome power of the state so that it doesn't run rough-shod over all of us. Once you take a life, that's it, and it aint coming back. Hopefully these rocket scientists don't learn how to be even more hardened criminals in prison.

(Gawd this formatting is weird!)
   30. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: February 23, 2014 at 07:43 PM (#4661168)
The Stow incident was, fairly or not, the beginning of McCourt's end.
   31. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: February 23, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4661191)
Quite frankly, I'd have no problem with the death penalty for these two.


Well of course, because the death penalty is always a good way to resolve these issues! The death penalty doesn't work as a deterrent, costs substantially more because of all the appeals and quite frankly is just inhuman. What these two deserve are the sentences determined by the court and their peers. If the sentences are too light then that issue needs to be addressed separately. There is a reason why most other democratic countries have abolished the death penalty, and no it's not because they are leftist, commies who are soft on crime.

I'm digging the formatting.
   32. base ball chick Posted: February 23, 2014 at 09:31 PM (#4661197)
23. BDC Posted: February 23, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4661108)
Hey, suppose we can get the politics thread formatted this way? Everything's either way right or left over there.


ultrasupadupa PRIMEY!!!!

   33. Lassus Posted: February 23, 2014 at 11:40 PM (#4661248)
I can find this sentencing horribly poor without needing the wrath of snapper's angry god to kill them.

Also, I agree this is the greatest formatting error in the site's history. Well done.
   34. steagles Posted: February 24, 2014 at 12:43 AM (#4661274)
xkcd
   35. Guapo Posted: February 24, 2014 at 04:35 AM (#4661317)
You know what they say about threads. It can't be an epic thread unless it's
strong
up
the
middle.

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