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Monday, April 01, 2013

Bryce Harper looking beyond ‘the baseball guy’

“I don’t want everybody to just see the baseball side of me,” Harper said, embracing the stardom that brings screaming fans (young, old, male, female) to every ballpark.

“I want everybody to see the other side of me, too — that I can be on a magazine with jeans and a T-shirt on and my hair done and things like that. I don’t want just me in my baseball hat all the time just the boring, old, ‘Look it’s Bryce Harper with eye black on again.’ I like people seeing the other side.”

...On the Nationals’ first off day this spring, Harper made the 67-mile drive west from Viera, Fla., to Disney World. He never goes unrecognized when he is out in the District; people are usually exceedingly nice and often apologetic for bothering him.

So when a boy no more than 14 or 15 approached him at the Magic Kingdom and asked for a photo, Harper obliged and threw his arm around the teen’s shoulder.

“I’m a Braves fan,” the boy said to Harper. “[Expletive] the Nationals.”

“My face in the picture is probably like [so confused],” Harper said, chuckling as he told the story. “I was thinking, ‘What? You just said that to me and you’re taking a picture with me?’ I was dumbfounded. I walked away and I go, ‘I don’t know what just happened right there. Happiest place on Earth.’”

Thanks to Los.

Repoz Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:21 AM | 84 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nats

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   1. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:45 AM (#4400629)
I can be on a magazine with jeans and a T-shirt on and my hair done and things like that


I hope he goes all Tom Brady on us and poses with a goat for a magazine picture. Having unlikable stars makes things more interesting.
   2. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:51 AM (#4400631)
I don’t want just me in my baseball hat all the time just the boring, old, ‘Look it’s Bryce Harper with eye black on again.’ I like people seeing the other side.”

Ask Rick Vaughn how this turns out.
   3. Bhaakon Posted: April 01, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4400696)
I don’t want just me in my baseball hat all the time just the boring, old, ‘Look it’s Bryce Harper with eye black on again.’ I like people seeing the other side.”


Like negative eye black? Just taking the field in black-face except for a big smudge of white skin under each eye.
   4. bunyon Posted: April 01, 2013 at 09:34 AM (#4400706)
Not only can I play baseball but I can dress myself, too!
   5. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4400728)
No, Bryce. Most people don't care about you outside of the diamond.
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:18 AM (#4400733)
He's just a wild and crazy guy that likes to go to Disney World and do up his hair and wear jeans. I can't wait to find out more!
   7. Brian Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:26 AM (#4400741)
He's 20 years old. People at the age tend to say a lot of stupid, self indulgent things. Cut him some slack; what would you have sounded like at 20 if people were interested in writing about every thing you did and said?
   8. Spectral Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:37 AM (#4400753)
I think I'm going to enjoy people's irrational hatred of Harper.
   9. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4400759)
I don't think there is going to be anything irrational about a hatred of Harper. I like the guy, love the way he plays the game and I think he's grown up a lot since he was drafted but I can see him being a guy that's hated.
   10. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4400762)
I think I'm going to enjoy people's irrational hatred of Harper.

I think he seems like an ok guy. Hopefully he gains some self awareness as he gets older but I have nothing against him. I doubt I'll be running into him at The Gap or Six Flags anytime soon even if he doesn't.
   11. puck Posted: April 01, 2013 at 10:50 AM (#4400769)
He's 20 years old. People at the age tend to say a lot of stupid, self indulgent things. Cut him some slack; what would you have sounded like at 20 if people were interested in writing about every thing you did and said?

It probably would have sounded like an OT thread here?
   12. boteman Posted: April 01, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4400941)
It probably would have sounded like an OT thread here?

So...like most threads here?
   13. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 01, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4400974)
2013 NL MVP Bryce Harper HRs in first AB. Going to be a long season for the Harper haters.
   14. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 01, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4401046)
A really long season.
   15. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 01, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4401084)
Can't wait to see him on the Yankees.
   16. Craig in MN Posted: April 01, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4401100)

2013 NL MVP Bryce Harper HRs in first AB. Going to be a long season for the Harper haters.


Two HRs now. He's not helping his “I don’t want everybody to just see the baseball side of me”-cause with performances like that. Mix in an 0-fer if you're serious about it, buddy!

   17. Swedish Chef Posted: April 01, 2013 at 02:43 PM (#4401116)
I like the baseball guy just fine.
   18. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4401210)
He's the new Mickey Mantle.
   19. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4401232)
He's the new Mickey Mantle.

Not until he hits home runs from both sides of the plate and has a mistress in every city. Bryce is great, but there'll never be another Mick. (smile)

And more seriously, Mantle's distinctive quality as a 19 and 20 year old was those tape measure home runs. Harper's hit a few moon shots, but nothing compared to Mantle's.
   20. JoeHova Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:37 PM (#4401262)
And more seriously, Mantle's distinctive quality as a 19 and 20 year old was those tape measure home runs. Harper's hit a few moon shots, but nothing compared to Mantle's.

Has there been anybody since Mantle that did compare in terms of tape measure home runs?
   21. bunyon Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4401271)
Mantle is like other old ballplayers: his homers get longer every year.

I certainly don't hate Harper. He seems to be about as well put together as a 20 year old with his past can be. However, if you're going to talk about wanting to be known for something more than baseball that implies you think you're pretty deep and interesting. If all you got is an ability to do your hair and dress well, well, I'm surrounded by 20 year olds with such skills. Who cares?
   22. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 01, 2013 at 03:55 PM (#4401294)
Has there been anybody since Mantle that did compare in terms of tape measure home runs?

Not in terms of the numbers, at least. At one point in his career he held the distance record in pretty much every American League ballpark, with Forbes Field thrown in for good measure.

-------------------------------------------

Mantle is like other old ballplayers: his homers get longer every year.

Actually they've been deconstructed and traced down a bit, but they still stand out for the parks in question.

Nobody else in 51 years ever cleared the LF bleachers in Griffith Stadium. Mantle did it.

In 51 years of that ballpark, the far CF high wall was cleared five times. Mantle did it twice in one afternoon.

Nobody else in 86 years ever hit the upper facade in the old Yankee Stadium, which Mantle did twice.

Those feats alone should give you a hint that Mantle's power was no myth, whether or not some of those earlier distances were either approximated and / or exaggerated.
   23. Spectral Posted: April 01, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4401303)
Right, I think it's more or less indisputable that no one's ever had more pure, natural power than Mantle did. Probably the closest thing was the *ahem* enhanced versions of McGwire and Bonds. Harper's flashing as much natural hitting ability as anyone, ever, but I don't think he's got quite the sheer force that Mantle did.

This is, of course, based on tall tales and half-remembered things rather than anything empirical, so I'd be happy to be contradicted.
   24. AndrewJ Posted: April 01, 2013 at 04:21 PM (#4401351)
Has there been anybody since Mantle that did compare in terms of tape measure home runs?

Maybe Willie Stargell, who had the longest homers in Dodger Stadium and the Vet.
   25. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 01, 2013 at 04:46 PM (#4401405)
Right, I think it's more or less indisputable that no one's ever had more pure, natural power than Mantle did. Probably the closest thing was the *ahem* enhanced versions of McGwire and Bonds.


Back in the mid 1970s the ball was kind of deadened for awhile before MLB switched manufacturers (from Spalding to Rawlings), Dave Kingman, at his peak as a power hitter would reach the parking lot at Shea, on the fly, 2-3 times a year- that required a 500+ foot shot.

Years later in 1983/84, George Foster hit the ball absolutely perfectly on a loaded up swing (you know, absolutely trying to hit a homer)- and reached the back of the bullpen wall on the fly- and ####### it of the announcers would not stop talking about that damn home run for a week... as if they'd never seen the ball go that far (that's when I knew Kiner was getting senile).

Every now and the Reggie would hit some moon shots, he came close to the Yankee Stadium facade a few times, but no cigar...
   26. JE (Jason) Posted: April 01, 2013 at 05:20 PM (#4401452)
As I noted on the Fish-Nats thread, Harper got a standing-O after flying out to left in his third plate appearance.
   27. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 01, 2013 at 05:32 PM (#4401468)
As I noted on the Fish-Nats thread, Harper got a standing-O after flying out to left in his third plate appearance


We all look forward to his coming meth addiction with bated breath.
   28. JE (Jason) Posted: April 01, 2013 at 05:43 PM (#4401484)
We all look forward to his coming meth addiction with bated breath.

"Paging Joey B., paging Joey B. Please pick up the courtesy telephone. You have an important phone call."
   29. Zach Posted: April 01, 2013 at 05:57 PM (#4401491)
You know, if Harper were smart he'd wish to be famous *only* for baseball. America is hard on its celebrities.

Looking at Mantle's life, what's the latest age where you would actually trade places with him? (Injuries, drinking problems and marriage included -- birth family and possible childhood sexual abuse off limits).

   30. Moeball Posted: April 01, 2013 at 06:49 PM (#4401547)
Has there been anybody since Mantle that did compare in terms of tape measure home runs?


I believe Stargell is the only one to ever HR completely out of Dodger Stadium and he did it twice.

I once saw Gary Gaetti hit one on top of the roof in left at old Comiskey, a true moon shot.

Mac may have been "enhanced" but I don't care and I'm willing to admit it - it sure was fun to watch while the ride lasted. He hit them high, and deep. BP was truly amazing to watch. Only guy I've seen hit one up in the orange seats on the 3rd level at Qualcomm. I've been told by Arizona fans that he hit one in BP there one time that hit the back wall and just missed going out the window (would've taken about a 540 ft. shot to do that, I guess). Of course, reality fades into legend as the years go by so no idea if it's true or not.

Saw Barry 2.0 (you know, the upgraded version) hit one at Qualcomm in a game against the Padres that was measured at about 485 ft. and just missed leaving the park to the side of the scoreboard. I don't think anyone ever hit one all the way out of Qualcomm.

Haven't seen anyone hit any particularly long or impressive HRs at Petco. I think the air's just dead there.
   31. Moeball Posted: April 01, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4401551)
Oh, and the shot Reggie hit off the light tower in Detroit during the '71 AS game was right out of "The Natural". It was even more impressive when I finally made to to Tiger Stadium many years later and saw where the light tower was up close.
   32. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 01, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4401572)
If it was up close how impressive could it have been? Huh? Huh?
   33. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 01, 2013 at 08:36 PM (#4401616)
He's just a wild and crazy guy that likes to go to Disney World and do up his hair and wear jeans. I can't wait to find out more!

Hilarious. That was my reaction as well. "Hey, I'm more than just a baseball player! I go to the gym, too! And I, uh, wear jeans...and t-shirts...and have hair."

Kidding aside, this is the guy who skipped his last two years of high school to accelerate his baseball development. He's been on the fast track for the majors since he was at least 16 years old, probably earlier. It's hard to imagine he's had time for much else besides baseball in his life so far.
   34. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 01, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4401641)
It's also worth remembering that Harper has been a model MLB citizen so far, with nary a single blemish despite the occasional provocation (e.g. Hamels nailing him). He doesn't engage in any taunting behavior, never 'shows up' opposing pitchers, doesn't admire his homers -- heck, the kid's got the fastest home run trot in the Majors by several seconds.

The worst thing he's ever done is actually (in retrospect) the funniest: giving himself a nasty cut when frustratedly slamming a bat down in the dugout so hard it bounced back and clocked him in the face. IIRC, his nickname in the clubhouse has been "Bam-Bam" ever since.
   35. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 01, 2013 at 09:47 PM (#4401690)
From the other thread.


You could have bet on Harper to lead the league in Home Runs at 42-1 before the season. This is despite hitting 22 HR in 139 games last year as a 19 year old.

A-Rod hit 5 HR in 49 games as a 19 year old, then 36 HR in a 149 games at age 20.

I have a friend who put at least $1,000 down on Harper this year. Sadly, I did not think of doing so.

   36. Walt Davis Posted: April 02, 2013 at 02:02 AM (#4401778)
that I can be on a magazine with jeans and a T-shirt

Please tell me I missed a post ...

or an era has passed ...

not one "we aren't selling jeans here" comment?

Moneyball est morte.
   37. Dr. Vaux Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:14 AM (#4401791)
I thought for it to be "selling jeans," there wasn't supposed to be any shirt.
   38. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:24 AM (#4401792)
And more seriously, Mantle's distinctive quality as a 19 and 20 year old was those tape measure home runs. Harper's hit a few moon shots, but nothing compared to Mantle's.


BBRef has Mantle listed at a not very large 5'-11", 195 lbs. Does that sound right to people who saw him play?
   39. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 02, 2013 at 06:06 AM (#4401797)
BBRef has Mantle listed at a not very large 5'-11", 195 lbs. Does that sound right to people who saw him play?

The 1953 BB Register has him at 5-11, 185, and the 1961 edition has him at 5-11½, 195. Shows what a lot of Copacabana and a pair of platform shoes can do for you.
   40. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 02, 2013 at 07:24 AM (#4401804)
t's also worth remembering that Harper has been a model MLB citizen so far, with nary a single blemish despite the occasional provocation (e.g. Hamels nailing him). He doesn't engage in any taunting behavior, never 'shows up' opposing pitchers, doesn't admire his homers -- heck, the kid's got the fastest home run trot in the Majors by several seconds.


They will eventually find the piggy toes he cuts off of the whores and indigents and keeps as souvenirs.
   41. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:16 AM (#4401808)
People around here are going to hate this guy so much before all is said and done.

Also, I've always found it interesting how short both Mantle and Mays were. Both under 6 feet. I mean, normal sized for real people, but short for baseball people.
   42. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:29 AM (#4401812)
Also, I've always found it interesting how short both Mantle and Mays were. Both under 6 feet. I mean, normal sized for real people, but short for baseball people.

Well, the player who held the NL single season home run record for 68 years stood all of 5'6".
   43. Mirabelli Dictu (Chris McClinch) Posted: April 02, 2013 at 09:05 AM (#4401829)
Well, the player who held the NL single season home run record for 68 years stood all of 5'6".


Strong and having a small strike zone is a good combination.
   44. Publius Publicola Posted: April 02, 2013 at 09:23 AM (#4401841)
The 1953 BB Register has him at 5-11, 185, and the 1961 edition has him at 5-11½, 195. Shows what a lot of Copacabana and a pair of platform shoes can do for you.


Not sure how fair that is. I remember having a baseball card of Mantle and the photo of him was at the beginning of an actual MLB game swing. He was incredibly muscular and powerfully built. Same with Mays, who was a little more wiry but had enormously strong hands.
   45. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 02, 2013 at 09:52 AM (#4401863)
I had hoped that the tongue in cheek was visible in my comment about the Copacabana and the platform shoes, but of course both Mantle and Mays were totally ripped from the waist up, and had leg muscles to go with it that helped them generate their power. Mantle's extra dimension of power can't really be explained, other than by timing, and by noting that few players in history have held back on their swing as little as he did. You can see photos of him corkscrewed around himself after a swing and miss that are very reminiscent of similar photos of Babe Ruth. None of this controlled swing, one-hand follow through for either of those two. With them it was all or nothing, not any of this "just meet the ball solidly and the home runs will follow".
   46. Joey B. has reignited his October #Natitude Posted: April 02, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4401920)
"Paging Joey B., paging Joey B. Please pick up the courtesy telephone. You have an important phone call."

The frightened little yelps of a scared puppy are amusing to me. The best thing to do with a mangy little anklebiter is to just ignore it.
   47. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 02, 2013 at 11:09 AM (#4401930)
You could have bet on Harper to lead the league in Home Runs at 42-1 before the season.

Really? I'm not a betting man - but I'd've put some money down on that.
   48. Answer Guy Posted: April 02, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4401937)
He's been on the fast track for the majors since he was at least 16 years old, probably earlier. It's hard to imagine he's had time for much else besides baseball in his life so far.


That's just it. What is there to him beyond being "the baseball guy?" There's nothing wrong with that, of course.

I'm sure he'll be fine.
   49. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 02, 2013 at 11:55 AM (#4401974)
I once saw Gary Gaetti hit one on top of the roof in left at old Comiskey, a true moon shot.


Saw either Ron Kittle or Greg Luzinski (can't remember which) do it twice in one night in person while I was sitting the LF upper deck.
   50. Lassus Posted: April 02, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4401984)
Saw either Ron Kittle or Greg Luzinski (can't remember which) do it twice in one night in person while I was sitting the LF upper deck.

Look! The Tracer-signal!
   51. Steve Treder Posted: April 02, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4402028)
both Mantle and Mays were totally ripped from the waist up, and had leg muscles to go with it that helped them generate their power. Mantle's extra dimension of power can't really be explained, other than by timing, and by noting that few players in history have held back on their swing as little as he did. You can see photos of him corkscrewed around himself after a swing and miss that are very reminiscent of similar photos of Babe Ruth. None of this controlled swing, one-hand follow through for either of those two. With them it was all or nothing, not any of this "just meet the ball solidly and the home runs will follow".

Mays didn't often swing and miss (until his final few years), of course, which was just reason # 79 why he was so amazing. But when he did, he'd frequently stagger and even sometimes fall down. His swing was vicious.

In Charlie Lau's marvelous book, The Art of Hitting .300, he analyzed the swings of various stars from over the decades. His comments on Mays are to the effect of well, I can't really recommend what he does, too much wiggling, etc., but what I love about him is the way in which once he commits to swing, he just attacks the ball.
   52. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 02, 2013 at 01:53 PM (#4402094)
both Mantle and Mays were totally ripped from the waist up, and had leg muscles to go with it that helped them generate their power


I think the extra dimension was an otherworldly amount of fast twitch muscles in them legs. Both guys were very fast, and those super quick leg muscles probably helped accelerate their bats even faster.
   53. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 02, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4402155)
I don't think hitting for power has much to do with physical stature at all. Sure, if you're already a power hitter bulking up will help and Sosa, McGwire and Bonds proved, but you have to be able to swing the bat in the first place. Most guys in MLB right now are bigger than Mantle and Mays, and most have never even reached 20 homers in a season.

When I played softball as a kid, I was usually on the team with my brother (2 years younger) and all the guys in between. The first of us ever to hit a ball over the fence (230' down the lines, 250' to CF) was one of the smallest kids on the team, and he wouldn't have been over 80 lbs when he did it (he would have been 11 or 12 at the time). This was in the early days of aluminum bats when they weren't any better than the wooden ones except in terms of durability. He pulled everything, and just had that natural ability.
   54. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 02, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4402161)
both Mantle and Mays were totally ripped from the waist up, and had leg muscles to go with it that helped them generate their power. Mantle's extra dimension of power can't really be explained, other than by timing, and by noting that few players in history have held back on their swing as little as he did. You can see photos of him corkscrewed around himself after a swing and miss that are very reminiscent of similar photos of Babe Ruth. None of this controlled swing, one-hand follow through for either of those two. With them it was all or nothing, not any of this "just meet the ball solidly and the home runs will follow".

Mays didn't often swing and miss (until his final few years), of course, which was just reason # 79 why he was so amazing. But when he did, he'd frequently stagger and even sometimes fall down. His swing was vicious.


The difference is that while Mays would let fly with all his might (and you can see plenty of pictures of him falling down after a swing), he wouldn't clutch the bat with an iron grip in his follow through the way that Ruth and Mantle did. Obviously I have no way of proving it, but I can't help but think that Ruth's and Mantle's follow through on their swings generated just a bit more power than Mays's.
   55. Steve Treder Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:00 PM (#4402247)
I don't think hitting for power has much to do with physical stature at all.

Run a correlation of height/weight with SLG for, say, 100 MLB position players, and see if you still say this.
   56. Steve Treder Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:04 PM (#4402251)
The difference is that while Mays would let fly with all his might (and you can see plenty of pictures of him falling down after a swing), he wouldn't clutch the bat with an iron grip in his follow through the way that Ruth and Mantle did. Obviously I have no way of proving it, but I can't help but think that Ruth's and Mantle's follow through on their swings generated just a bit more power than Mays's.

Indeed, Mays would let go with the right hand on his follow-through. And it's rather clear that both Ruth and Mantle generated more power than Mays (Ruth and Mantle generated more power than damn near anyone), though how much that's a function of their swing technique or their superior strength is probably unknowable.
   57. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4402322)
Not sure what the record is, but the Harper-Strasburg pairing looks to have a chance to rank pretty high in the combined hitter/pitcher value if both spend the bulk of their career with the Nationals. The Harpsburg Empire could dominate the National League for years to come.
   58. cardsfanboy Posted: April 02, 2013 at 04:55 PM (#4402329)
The difference is that while Mays would let fly with all his might (and you can see plenty of pictures of him falling down after a swing), he wouldn't clutch the bat with an iron grip in his follow through the way that Ruth and Mantle did. Obviously I have no way of proving it, but I can't help but think that Ruth's and Mantle's follow through on their swings generated just a bit more power than Mays's.


If that is the case, then theoretically that makes sense, a loose grip would be like a shock absorber, transfering energy as it 'bounces' back from the contact.
   59. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 02, 2013 at 05:17 PM (#4402361)
The Harpsburg Empire
Okay, Clapper...admit it. You've been waiting awhile to drop that one on us, haven't you?
   60. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: April 02, 2013 at 05:24 PM (#4402372)
Bulk certainly helps. The longest homer I've seen in person is one McGwire hit off Randy Johnson that looked like it was going to blast right through the back wall of the Kingdome. They claimed at the time it was a 538-foot shot, although soberer analysts say it couldn't have been longer than 474 feet. Whichever figure is correct, no home run could travel much farther than that one did.

On the other hand, I once saw A.J. Zapp (listed at 190 pounds) hit a ball directly over the 29-foot high, 425-foot-distant center field wall at Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, something no one had done before in 45 years. A 505-foot home run, say the officials who pulled that number out of their asses.
   61. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 02, 2013 at 06:51 PM (#4402456)
The Harpsburg Empire

Okay, Clapper...admit it. You've been waiting awhile to drop that one on us, haven't you?

It came to me today as I was contemplating what historic levels the Harper - Strasburg duo might reach!

   62. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:15 PM (#4402532)
You should think about getting a trademark or something on that before anyone else beats you to it.

Two words: Three-peat. (Or maybe it's just one word, but you get the idea.) Pat Riley made a small fortune off of that stupid phrase, and "Harpsburg Empire" isn't even stupid.
   63. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:21 PM (#4402538)
Two words: Three-peat. (Or maybe it's just one word, but you get the idea.) Pat Riley made a small fortune off of that stupid phrase, and "Harpsburg Empire" isn't even stupid.
Too late. Already filed for it this afternoon. Slow day, so I decided to take it before someone else claimed it.

(Nah, Clapper, it's all yours.)
   64. Steve Treder Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:22 PM (#4402539)
Not sure what the record is, but the Harper-Strasburg pairing looks to have a chance to rank pretty high in the combined hitter/pitcher value if both spend the bulk of their career with the Nationals.

To get back to this: who would hold the record? Aaron/Spahn, I guess?
   65. cardsfanboy Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:29 PM (#4402547)
Not sure what the record is, but the Harper-Strasburg pairing looks to have a chance to rank pretty high in the combined hitter/pitcher value if both spend the bulk of their career with the Nationals.


That is a cool question. Heck what pairing produced the most war over a finite number of years?

Spahn/Aaron were together from '54-65...generated 131.7 War in that time frame. I think it's going to be pretty tough to find someone ahead of that.

   66. cardsfanboy Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:33 PM (#4402551)
Babe Ruth and Waite Hoyt generated 137.4 War as Yankees. And 147.3 war as Yankee/Red Sox teamates(counting Ruths offense only, not pitching)
   67. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:42 PM (#4402563)
Mantle/Ford tops 150 WAR for the time they played together (1953-67), which might be tough to beat, since few combos overlap that long. Jeter/Pettitte would be up there, too, and they could still add more value. Perhaps one of the Play Index Wizards can run a list.
   68. cardsfanboy Posted: April 02, 2013 at 08:55 PM (#4402576)
Mantle/Ford tops 150 WAR for the time they played together (1953-67), which might be tough to beat, since few combos overlap that long. Jeter/Pettitte would be up there, too, and they could still add more value. Perhaps one of the Play Index Wizards can run a list.


Mantle/Ford 150.6.... Jeter and Pettitte overlapping combined for 124.5...

Mel Ott/Carl Hubbell Seem to have the lead with 166.6.
   69. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 02, 2013 at 09:24 PM (#4402615)
Mel Ott/Carl Hubbell Seem to have the lead with 166.6.

A 16 year overlap encompassing the peak years of two Hall of Famers adds a lot of WAR. Strasburg would have to play through his age-38 season to overlap that long with Harper. Possible, although a lot can happen over such a time span.
   70. Depressoteric feels Royally blue these days Posted: April 02, 2013 at 09:29 PM (#4402624)
Really fun research question, you guys. Thanks for the archaeology.

   71. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 02, 2013 at 10:01 PM (#4402674)
I'm not sure how to find the worst total. Jaime Navarro and Jeff Norton teamed up for a -4.9 over their three years together with the White Sox. Rey Ordonez and Jason Isringhausen put up -4.5 in just two years.
   72. Sweatpants Posted: April 02, 2013 at 10:20 PM (#4402697)
Walter Johnson and Clyde Milan had 172.8 together.
   73. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 02, 2013 at 10:25 PM (#4402706)
It's really rare for a player to put up a run of consecutive seasons with significant WBR (wins below replacement). Can anyone beat Navarro and Norton?
   74. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 02, 2013 at 11:29 PM (#4402803)
Jeff Norton? I mean Greg Norton.

Jeff Abbott was slightly less bad over that period.
   75. cardsfanboy Posted: April 03, 2013 at 12:06 AM (#4402826)
Walter Johnson and Clyde Milan had 172.8 together.


wow...never even heard of the guy, and he had a 16 year career worth 40 war....impressive, stayed in Washington the hole time.
   76. Steve Treder Posted: April 03, 2013 at 12:23 AM (#4402831)
Johnson and Milan were extremely close friends.
   77. Poulanc Posted: April 03, 2013 at 01:12 AM (#4402850)
Really fun research question, you guys. Thanks for the archaeology.


Agreed!

Another one is Mays/Marichal: Roughly 156 WAR from 1960 to mid-1972.
   78. vortex of dissipation Posted: April 03, 2013 at 04:36 AM (#4402877)
Walter Johnson and Clyde Milan had 172.8 together.


wow...never even heard of the guy, and he had a 16 year career worth 40 war....impressive, stayed in Washington the hole time.


I'm exactly the opposite - I have a pretty good handle on who is in the Hall of Fame and who isn't, and I just assumed that Milan is. I was flabbergasted when I looked at his BR page and found out that he not only isn't in, but that he never got more than 2.4% of the vote. I think I must have had him confused in my mind with Max Carey (same initials, different order), who was a base-stealing centerfielder in the NL at the same time Milan was in the AL, and is in the Hall...
   79. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 03, 2013 at 08:44 AM (#4402910)
I don't think hitting for power has much to do with physical stature at all.

Run a correlation of height/weight with SLG for, say, 100 MLB position players, and see if you still say this.


Oh certainly. Everything else being equal, the bigger guy will hit for more power. But just because you are big doesn't mean you'll hit for power, even if you're talented enough to be an MLer. There must be some other physical trait (reaction time, the geometry of your joints, slow/fast-twitch muscle ratio) that is a bigger determining factor than size.
   80. Hack Wilson Posted: April 03, 2013 at 09:20 AM (#4402938)
I don't think hitting for power has much to do with physical stature at all.


Yeah, but I was certainly surprised when Lou Brock, still with the Cubs, hit one in the Polo Grounds center field seats. Joe Adcock, a really big guy, had been the first to do it during a MLB game.
   81. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 03, 2013 at 09:41 AM (#4402951)
Hack, I'd think you'd be the last person to be surprised by Lou Brock's slugging feat, given that your own sawed-off 5'6" frame managed to set a National League season home run record that held up for 68 years.
   82. Hack Wilson Posted: April 03, 2013 at 09:59 AM (#4402965)
I might have been a bit burlier than Lou Brock. Photo

National League season home run record that held up for 68 years.


And since everybody that supposedly broke the record was on PEDs, I still hold the record-give the cheaters asterisks.
   83. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 03, 2013 at 10:09 AM (#4402982)
I might have been a bit burlier than Lou Brock. Photo

Was that taken after you'd disposed of the 38th or 39th barrel of beer on the wall?

And since everybody that supposedly broke the record was on PEDs, I still hold the record-give the cheaters asterisks.

Better watch out, or someone's liable to accuse you of slipping goat testicles into your Prairie Oysters.
   84. GuyM Posted: April 03, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4402987)
I don't think hitting for power has much to do with physical stature at all.
Run a correlation of height/weight with SLG for, say, 100 MLB position players, and see if you still say this

Had this data handy, for 1994-2008, min 1000 PA:
Ht 5-10 or less: 93 OPS+
Ht 6-3 or more: 116 OPS+

No doubt that Mantle was exceptional. But size does matter. I'm sure there are at least a dozen guys playing today with as much power.

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