Bryce Harper shows flair in CSN debut

Wouldn't that be CSN&H?

Well, Harper is pretty Young.

I thought Harper was a catcher?

Harper is anything you want him to be. Not only can he play catcher, the infield or the outfield, but he can pitch 96 miles per hour and he (according to Sports Illustrated) hit a 570-foot home run.

After the Nats signed Stephen Strasburg and I realized they were likely to get Harper as well, I figure that has a very good chance to be the best battery in baseball assembled in back-to-back draft classes. ...

Speaking of the Nats .... Larry Stone (writing about Harper & Strasburg) in the Seattle Times noted this week that only 3 existing major league franchises have never had a team go to the World Series:

The Mariners (1977)
The Nationals (1969)
The Rangers (1961)

He also noted the franchises in the NBA and the NFL which have never made it to their league's final round:

The Clippers (1970)
The Nuggets (1976)
The Hornets (1988)
The Timberwolves (1989)
The Grizzlies (1995)
The Raptors (1995)
The Bobcats (2004)

The Browns (1999)
The Jaguars (1995)
The Texans (2002)

The Browns (1999)

The Browns are considered to be the same franchise that stopped playing in Cleveland after the 1995 season, the Ravens are considered an expansion team.

Speaking of the Nats .... Larry Stone (writing about Harper & Strasburg) in the Seattle Times noted this week that only 3 existing major league franchises have never had a team go to the World Series:

The Mariners (1977)
The Nationals (1969)
The Rangers (1961)

That'd be a team the currently plays in Washington, a team that used to play in Washington and a team that currently play in Washington (state).

There was a Final Jeopardy! which said,"This is the only NFL city that has neither played in nor hosted a Super Bowl.

After the Nats signed Stephen Strasburg and I realized they were likely to get Harper as well, I figure that has a very good chance to be the best battery in baseball assembled in back-to-back draft classes. ...

Or at least the second best battery in the MASN broadcast area. Once Harper is drafted and signed and he and Strasburg reach the majors, we can start comparing them with Wieters and Matusz...

The Browns are considered to be the same franchise that stopped playing in Cleveland after the 1995 season, the Ravens are considered an expansion team.

That's BS. They can consider themselves whatever they like and workout whatever legal nonsense they like, but the 1996 Ravens bore a striking similarity to the 1995 Browns (including having the same owner), and the 1999 Browns bore a striking similarity to an expansion team.

They are absolutely no different than the Senators, so if the new Browns aren't on the list, neither are the Rangers.

The Browns are considered to be the same franchise that stopped playing in Cleveland after the 1995 season, the Ravens are considered an expansion team.

That is an NFL alternate reality that the serious historian is wise to ignore.

They are absolutely no different than the Senators, so if the new Browns aren't on the list, neither are the Rangers.

Depending on what you consider to be the NFL's final round (that is, whether you count the pre-Super Bowl era or not), the Browns may still be on the list. (Not this version of it, though, because the Lions aren't on it.)

That is an NFL alternate reality that the serious historian is wise to ignore.

Agreed, it's important to know the difference between technicalities and realities.

I consider the NFL list to be Browns*, Jaguars, Lions, and Texans*.

Of course the old Browns became the Ravens and went, and the Houston Oilers became the Titans and went. But the currently existing Browns and Texans are expansion teams, as are the Jags, and have never been. The Lions have no excuse.

I wrote: I figure that has a very good chance to be the best battery in baseball assembled in back-to-back draft classes. ...

I based that entirely on hype. That may be stupid. But that was my basis.

Once Harper is drafted and signed and he and Strasburg reach the majors, we can start comparing them with Wieters and Matusz...

Point taken. Matt Wieters and Brian Matusz very well might be better major leaguers. At least, each of them has already played in the majors. But the hype around Harper is off the charts. Way higher than it was for Wieters, who was mixed in a draft with some other very good players; and there is no comparison between the Strasburg hype and that for Matusz. (Buster Posey was supposed to be "the man" picked in that draft.)

S.I. called Harper baseball's version of LeBron. The most hype I recall for any player entering the draft was with Mark Prior in 2001. But that pales next to the Harper hype.

There was a Final Jeopardy! which said,"This is the only NFL city that has neither played in nor hosted a Super Bowl.

One of the Final Jeopardy! clues this week was - "This is the only city to win the Super Bowl and Stanley Cups in the same year". Pretty easy because it was recent.

Pretty easy because it was recent.

Yes, Pittsburgh 2009 was easy. However, it happened just once before that in the same year the NFL champion and the NHL champion played in the same city. What year was that and what was the city?

Denver?

Yes, Pittsburgh 2009 was easy. However, it happened just once before that in the same year the NFL champion and the NHL champion played in the same city. What year was that and what was the city?

i really ####### hate tampa bay. at least we got 'em in 2008.

He also noted the franchises in the NBA and the NFL which have never made it to their league's final round:

The Clippers (1970)
The Nuggets (1976)

The Nuggets made it to their league's final round, but that league was the ABA.

However, it happened just once before that in the same year the NFL champion and the NHL champion played in the same city. What year was that and what was the city?

Matt Wieters.

Since I don't expect anyone to look it up, I'll give the answer: It was 1952, when the Red Wings and the Lions won the Stanley Cup and the NFL championship, respectively.

1952 also was the lone season of the Dallas Texans franchise. The team went 1-11 and then folded up shop. In 1953, Baltimore got an expansion team, the Colts, to serve as the NFL's 12th team. The Texans had been invented because the New York Yanks (not Yankees) folded after the 1951 season. The original QB in 1949 for the Yanks (then known as the New York Bulldogs) was Bobby Layne, the Hall of Famer from Texas who led the Lions to the championship in 1952, '53 and '57.

And the final question: The Colts had a team here, lost the franchise, then got one from Dallas. What were the colors of the original Colt team?

The answer depends on if you think that the 1953 Colts were not really just an expansion team but dated back to the AAFC Baltimore Colts of 1947-50. That team's colors were green and silver. But I think when the expansion Colts were invented in 1953, the team's colors were blue and white.

After the 1949 season, the AAFC was no more. In 1950, the Browns (now Ravens), the 49ers and the Baltimore Colts joined the NFL. But Baltimore failed and in 1951 the NFL went back to 12 teams. The 1950 Colts players who stayed in the NFL were dispersed. As such, the new Colts of 1953 were not the old Colts of 1950. A small number of players, though, played for both franchises.

Most of the 1950 Colts, because they sucked, never played in the NFL, again. This is where those who did not suck so much played in 1951:

Y.A. Tittle and Hardy Brown went from the Colts to the 49ers in '51. Adrian Burk went to Philly. Rip Collins went to Green Bay. Bill Murray and John Schweder went to Pittsburgh. Barry French went to Detroit. Don Colo, Sisto Averno* and Art Donovan* went to the NY Yanks. Bob Oristaglio went to Cleveland. George Buksar went to Washington. Herb Rich went to the L.A. Rams. Leon Campbell and Billy Stone went to Chicago.

*Averno and Donovan are the only two players whose career path was Colt to Colt. In 1950 they were with the Baltimore Colts. In 1951 (by chance) they went to the New York Yanks. After the Yanks folded and were replaced by the Dallas Texans in 1952, Averno and Donovan played for Dallas. When Dallas folded at the end of 1952 and a new Colts team was invented, Averno and Donovan joined the new Baltimore club. The 1953 club is called "an expansion franchise," but it's fair to call it a replacement franchise which mostly kept the old Texans which itself replaced and kept the old Yanks. However, the old Yanks (which competed against the old Colts) were not the old AAFC Colts which worse silver and green.

Rich: I concede. I was just making a "Diner" reference. I'm learning a lot in this thread though.

More detail on the Colts

Whether the Browns are an expansion team or not, it's still BS. Just because the NFL refuses to acknowledge anything before 1970 doesn't mean the Paul Brown era never happened.

That is an NFL alternate reality that the serious historian is wise to ignore.

Nonetheless, it's an alternate reality that at least is based on more logic than a corporation taking "its" history away with them. It would be more ridiculous for the Ravens to put out a commemorative t-shirt or whatnot saying "9 league championships!!" when nobody in Baltimore ever celebrated 8 of those. In fact, most of Baltimore was actively rooting against the Browns for 8 of those.

The NFL's historical trick at least recognizes that the active guardians of a team's history are its fanbase, and the good burghers of Cleveland didn't want Lou Groza's retired number hanging from the rafters of Memorial Stadium any more than they wanted syphillis.