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Sunday, July 08, 2012

BtBS: Can We Quantify Hitting the Ball Hard?

Yes. There is Ray Oyler.

ye

And then there is everyone else.

I was randomly looking through some players statistics over at FanGraphs and happened to ask myself a certain question. The question was, how come some flyball hitters are prone to hitting popups, but other are not. I immediately thought the reason had to do with a player’s inherent skill in making hard contact because, as we all know, popups are pretty much infield flyballs. I surmised that since certain players seem to be skilled at not hitting popups and, yet they still manage to hit lots of flyballs, they must be hitting the ball harder than their counterparts who do manage to hit a decent amount of popups. In other words, not only do players who don’t hit popups not hit popups, but they also hit their flyballs harder. The skill isn’t avoiding hitting popups, the skill is hitting the ball hard. So I went on to analyze the data to see if my theory holds water.

...No surprise to see Joey Votto and Ryan Howard top the list, two very powerful fellows. More surprisingly are the likes of Derrek Lee and Brad Hawpe who, while having power, aren’t known for being prodigious power hitters or consistently hitting the ball hard. The likes of Jack Cust, Chris Davis and Matt Kemp are all known for being able to hit a baseball very far, meaning they make hard contact often. The three most interesting names, in my mind, are Alex Avila, Austin Jackson and Shin-Soo Choo. Like Lee and Hawpe, none of these players are considered sluggers so at first glance their inclusion in the top 10 might not make much sense. What really intrigues me is that they’re all young, they all have raw power and have had higher than average BABiPs in the past. Could it be that with an increase in flyball rate, their power numbers would take a large leap forward? It’s very possible.

Repoz Posted: July 08, 2012 at 01:43 PM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: sabermetrics

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   1. Rickey Fredonia Fudge Duckery Precious Twiddle Posted: July 08, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4176159)
First, kudos for this guy doing this study, but let me follow that up with the obligatory dig that it really shouldn't take a detailed study to figure out that some guys hit the ball harder than others, and that hitting the ball said harder is a pretty good idea in baseball.
   2. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 08, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4176204)
Does this help to predict future BABIP somehow? If so it would be awesome. If not, it's still pretty good.
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: July 08, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4176211)
More surprisingly are the likes of Derrek Lee and Brad Hawpe who, while having power, aren’t known for being prodigious power hitters or consistently hitting the ball hard.


Really? I've always thought of both of those guys as guys who consistently get good wood on the ball, which is another way(and probably more accurate) of saying hit the ball hard, especially Lee.

   4. Tricky Dick Posted: July 08, 2012 at 04:36 PM (#4176214)
I like the idea that someone is studying infield pop ups. I've always wondered if how much they indicate random variation vs. a batter's talent level. My impression is that a few batters are consistently high or low on infield fly percentage, but that most batters have a lot of variation year to year in infield fly ball percentage.

But this article hasn't really persuaded me that pop ups are a sign of batters who hit the ball hard. The highest correlation supporting the proposition is batting average on fly balls. But since infield fly balls are a sub set of fly balls which happen to have virtually a zero batting average, we would expect batters with a higher proportion of pop ups to have a lower batting average on fly balls.
   5. Walt Davis Posted: July 08, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4176223)
I don't associate pop-ups with "not hard"), it's about "good wood". (that's what she said! I'd assume that pop-up hitters are just at the more extreme end of the upper-cut swing and get under the ball more often. Or maybe they simply have less bat control.

Derrek Lee was something of a line drive machine. He wasn't a massive upper-cut guy (probably would have hit a lot more HR if he had been).
   6. cardsfanboy Posted: July 08, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4176227)
I like the idea that someone is studying infield pop ups.


On the other side of the equation, I'm pretty sure that dips studies have indicated that infield pop-ups are a function of pitching,(like strikeouts) so it would be interesting to studying which players are more prone to being induced into popping up.

Derrek Lee was something of a line drive machine.


That is the way I remember him. Even though every ballplayer seems to claim to be 6'6"(6'5"), Lee actually looked like he was that big and I thought it would be hard for him to get that uppercut swing.

I don't associate pop-ups with "not hard"), it's about "good wood".


Exactly, I think either Tino Martinez in his one year (or was it two) or Albert Pujols is the all time Cardinal leader for infield popups in the 2000's. (actually Tino was more two bouncer to second base----but it seemed that the 8 times he did put the ball in the air for the Cardinals it was a popup to second base) I don't think anyone would claim Albert Pujols doesn't hit the ball hard.
   7. RMc and His Roster of Rubbish Posted: July 08, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4176295)
Have the M's ever had a Turn Back the Clock night when they wore the old Pilot uniforms? Cuz they be stylin'.
   8. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: July 08, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4176318)
I think the Brewers would have to wear the Pilot uniforms, and they'd probably only do that if they ever played in Seattle
   9. tshipman Posted: July 08, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4176341)
When Bonds was a monster with the Giants he very rarely popped the ball up (also very rarely checked his swing).

But this article hasn't really persuaded me that pop ups are a sign of batters who hit the ball hard. The highest correlation supporting the proposition is batting average on fly balls. But since infield fly balls are a sub set of fly balls which happen to have virtually a zero batting average, we would expect batters with a higher proportion of pop ups to have a lower batting average on fly balls.


I think the author was arguing that pop ups are a negative indicator of "hitting the ball hard." I don't think I agree with that either--I think the value of not hitting pop ups is not making easy outs. Guys seem to generally pop out when they get under the ball. I don't think that really is a sign of anything, but I could be convinced otherwise.

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