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Thursday, July 26, 2012

Calcaterra: Tweet of the Day: Do NOT breastfeed in front of Logan Morrison

Jay Jaffe should never have made that Futility Infielder card...

Logan Morrison was just chillin’ at Nordstrom today when he encountered something he was not pleased with:

  Logan Morrison

  Hey @Nordstrom nothing makes me want to spend $$ like seeing women breastfeeding in your store…

Those damn moms,providing essential nourishment for their children. Just appalling, really. The worst kind of people.

Because he’s awesome, Jay Jaffe called Morrison out for being boorish and retrograde about public breastfeeding. Which led to this response:

  Logan Morrison

    Jay Jaffe? Another blogger who has never played baseball w a big mouth. Shocker! RT @jay_jaffe shut up and hit .240 without power LoMo

Repoz Posted: July 26, 2012 at 05:43 PM | 335 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: marlins

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   101. salajander Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4193131)
Morrison didn't name the woman and she unidentifiable front the blurry picture he posted, so all this faux "defending the woman's honor" nonsense is goofy. Take away the picture, and people would still be bashing Morrison as a Neanderthal because he expressed an unpopular opinion.


So you're asserting that he should be able to tweet about (essentially) anything he wants and any backlash he gets is just typical lefty response? Are people not allowed to comment on this? And I still don't understand how this is somehow political.


EDIT: Yeah, stop feeding the troll.
   102. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4193132)
Morrison didn't name the woman and she unidentifiable front the blurry picture he posted, so all this faux "defending the woman's honor" nonsense is goofy.


It's rude and creepy to take a woman's picture without getting her permission, regardless of whether she's identifiable in the picture or not. What part of "rude and creepy" are you not getting?

Take away the picture, and people would still be bashing Morrison as a Neanderthal because he expressed an unpopular opinion.


Yes, they would. And they'd be entirely justified in doing so, since they're only exercising their right to free speech.

None of which makes the fact that Morrison took and published the woman's picture any less rude or creepy.
   103. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4193133)
Are you implying that Romney is a Nazi, Vlad?

Where the heck did you get that from?
   104. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4193135)
The right to free speech only protects you from legal sanctions related to what you've said. It's not a magic "get-out-of-being-called-an-asshat" card.

I'm stealing THIS one.

Me, too. It's a keeper.
   105. salajander Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4193136)
Are you implying that Romney is a Nazi, Vlad?


Prove he's not.
   106. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4193139)
How many people posted the picture online for the purpose of mocking you to their legions of fans?

Who knows? I cherish privacy so much that I'm not on Facebook at all.

***
Really? A total stranger who you've never met and no one in your friend group (assuming you were with one) knows took your picture 20 times and posted it on the internet for the whole world to see? Do you look like some kind of celebrity?

Um, no. The point was, people in public places have their picture taken all the time without their permission. It's how this pesky "public" thing works.
   107. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4193141)
Where the heck did you get that from?


He said "admit" he is a Nazi. That sounds like implying to me.
   108. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:43 PM (#4193142)
What I have learned from this thread.

Breastfeeding in public is popular and criticizing it is not (except where it isn't and like there was no proof put out for this position).

Anything legal to do is A OK and darn polite too I guess (except in any rational world it isn't).

Criticizing someone breastfeeding is Free Speech! Criticizing someone criticizing the previous person is a lefty horror show of evil and group think to boot.

Joe K knows what would have happened if something else would have happened and is darn upset about that too.
---

And yes I have no problem with breastfeeding in public (newsflash raising kids is hard work, make it easier) and it is hardly a burden to avert ones eyes if exposed "icky lady parts" make baby Jesus cry or something.

And yes tweeting a picture of someone engaged in something as normal as breastfeeding is rude. Being against public breastfeeding is backward. And hey both being rude and backward are legal and I will defend the backward rude ######## right to be that way.
   109. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:44 PM (#4193143)
Who knows? I cherish privacy so much that I'm not on Facebook at all I never leave my house.
   110. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4193144)
EDIT: Yeah, stop feeding the troll.

Yes, I posted here for 2 years as a cover for my nefarious future plans to "troll" a thread about Logan Morrison and breastfeeding. You caught me.

"Troll' is the most overused word on BBTF.

***
It's rude and creepy to take a woman's picture without getting her permission, regardless of whether she's identifiable in the picture or not.

Two things can be true at once. Morrison thought it was "rude" for this woman to breastfeed in a public place when comfortable restrooms were likely only a few steps away. Likewise, Morrison's picture-taking can be described as "rude and creepy."
   111. kthejoker Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4193145)
I wish more people would post pictures of women in America breastfeeding online, so every sane person in the rest of the world can go, "BFD", and we can get over our Puritan selves.
   112. Poster Nutbag Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4193146)

It's rude and creepy to take a woman's picture without getting her permission, regardless of whether she's identifiable in the picture or not. What part of "rude and creepy" are you not getting?


Not getting, or intentionally dismissing? Over and over.
(Edit: Just saw #110)



Let's face the facts, this issue is clearly some leftist/rightist thing and we should judge some people for expressing their outrage (and for not aligning with a particular political/social philosophy), because other people should be able to express their outrage (so long as it does align itself with the appropriate political/social philosophy).

So, line up, two sides only....
   113. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4193147)
Um, no. The point was, people in public places have their picture taken all the time without their permission. It's how this pesky "public" thing works.


Yes. People in public do lots of different rude or creepy things all the time. They stand too close to you on the subway even though they're all gross and sweaty. They sniff bicycle seats. They give you the finger, or tell you to eat #### and die. They pick their noses and eat the snot, or flick it on the floor. They lean over and try to stare down women's blouses with laser-focused intensity. They use the bathroom without washing their hands, and then walk over and grab a bagel from the shared work food repository.

You can do any of those things in public and be within your legal rights, but that won't make you any less of an #######.
   114. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:49 PM (#4193148)
Um, no. The point was, people in public places have their picture taken all the time without their permission. It's how this pesky "public" thing works.


Yeah, no ####.

Likewise, Morrison's picture-taking can be described as "rude and creepy."


THAT IS ALL I AM ####### SAYING.
   115. DA Baracus Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:50 PM (#4193149)
Likewise, Morrison's picture-taking can be described as "rude and creepy."


So you agree with everyone that you've been disagreeing with. Congratulations on wasting your own time.
   116. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4193150)
Two things can be true at once. Morrison thought it was "rude" for this woman to breastfeed in a public place when comfortable restrooms were likely only a few steps away.


Maybe he did. So what? His opinion turns out to be unpopular, and as a result, he's receiving criticism for expressing it.

The system works!
   117. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4193151)
Morrison thought it was "rude" for this woman to breastfeed in a public place when comfortable restrooms were likely only a few steps away.


Just like it was rude for blacks to drink from a whites only fountain when there was a perfectly good colored one a few steps away? Who are you or Lo mo to tell someone you have to feed your baby in an unsanitary place used primarily for extraction of human waste?

If a woman is breast feeding her child by stripping down to her waist and flaunting her boobies for everyone to see, that's one thing. But 99.9% of women brestfeeding in public do it covertly with a minimum of exposed flesh. Indeed, much less than you'll see in Nordstrom's lingerie department.
   118. TerpNats Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4193153)
I'm surprised no one has stated this yet in regard to his actions (especially the picture): Logan Morrison sucks.

Yet another PR disaster for the Marlins, a la Ozzie and Fidel this spring. I eagerly await a nurse-in outside Marlins Park in the near future.
   119. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4193154)
Re: "comfortable restrooms"- do you spend a lot of time in the ladies' room at Nordstrom's? I'm curious how you obtain your data.
   120. vivaelpujols Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4193155)
I think Logan's being very charitable here, no way Jaffe hits .240 in the bigs.
   121. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4193159)
Well, he *is* reasonably athletic.....
   122. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4193160)
I eagerly await a nurse-in outside Marlins Park in the near future.


Bah. Nobody gives 2 shits about this train wreck of a team. I feel sorry for my 12 year old son who worships them. But then I grew up a Cubs fan in the 70's, so I can relate. But I'm not looking forward to the day Gio Stanton is traded for Camron Maybin II.
   123. DA Baracus Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4193161)
I'm surprised no one has stated this yet in regard to his actions (especially the picture): Logan Morrison sucks.


Jay Jaffe already said all that needs to be said.
   124. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:58 PM (#4193162)

Jay Jaffe already said all that needs to be said.


Yeah, but he could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting.
   125. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:58 PM (#4193163)
But breast feeding in public will attract jerks like LoMo, and people should expect that.

Why?

Or is it the general asshattery of "someone is doing something I can't do, so I'll be a jerk about it" that some people have?
   126. Lassus Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4193167)
Well, when a woman started breastfeeding in the middle of a busy, cramped restaurant in Syracuse* last week, "society" seemed less than impressed.

Lately I've decided that Dinosaur BBQ isn't actually all that great.
   127. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:06 PM (#4193168)
So you agree with everyone that you've been disagreeing with. Congratulations on wasting your own time.

Nice try. It was creepy for Morrison to take the picture, but the woman in question is essentially unidentifiable in the resulting blurry picture. Jaffe and Calcaterra would have gone after Morrison whether there was a picture or not. This was guaranteed page clicks, picture or no picture.

***
Just like it was rude for blacks to drink from a whites only fountain when there was a perfectly good colored one a few steps away?

Nice hyperbole. Wow.
   128. Jack Keefe Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:06 PM (#4193169)
Well Al now they are all up set about my pal Locum Morrissey and how he does not like a women to open a Milk Bar in the Mall Al. Now all these poasters have to know 1 thing about Morrissey. He is chased as the Driven Snow and like Chick Phillie he beliefs in Traditional Marriage and none of this Hanky Panky. Why let me tell you a story Al. This year my girl friend Tawny came to Mia. to see me during a Home Stan. We went to a bar Al and no this is not going to be a Lack Tation story because Tawnys Womb has not yet been opened and she has no milk to secret Al. Well we were at the bar Tawny and Morrissey and me and Morrisseys Betrothed Spouse who was wearing a Turdle Neck not that she had much to displace anyway AA Cup if you ask me Al but Morrissey always says why do you want more than a Handful. He says that Theoretically Al, he has never been even 2/3 of the way down the First Base Line if you know what I mean. Well Tawny had on a Tastful blouse that was lowcut sure but what do I care Al they are her Memories and she must express herself though I am not talking milk here Al as you Recall. Well you should have seen Morrissey Al. He keeps saying How can you let your Promised Bride sport those Abhominable Knockers in a Pubic Place. And when I said what are you talking about Locum he showed me an Albom of snaps of Tawnys Cleafage and that of quite a few other girls even some in Hooters Al which I blusht to see because you know I do not go there only to Chick Phillie and there is not much Breast there outside of the Samwiches. Anyway Morrissey said that he would put these pictures on the Innernet as an example of the Strumpets who abound in our Sociality and then he was going to Northstroms to try on Ladys Shoes which he always does to relax but I guess he got in trouble there too. It takes all kinds to make a Ball Club Al and I still like Morrissey better then AJ Pierogi.
   129. DKDC Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:07 PM (#4193170)
Edit see below
   130. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4193173)
"Troll' is the most overused word on BBTF.


QFT. Every time someone gets annoyed they scream "Troll". At least Joe K stayed in the conversation, and other than a few "liberal" this and "lefty" that mostly sort of refrained from calling names.
   131. Tripon Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4193175)

Why?

Or is it the general asshattery of "someone is doing something I can't do, so I'll be a jerk about it" that some people have?


Pretty much. I also feel that Nordstrom should have a special area for breastfeeding, besides the public restrooms, so mom who want to breastfeed know that jerks like LoMo aren't watching them.
   132. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4193176)
Just like it was rude for blacks to drink from a whites only fountain when there was a perfectly good colored one a few steps away?


Nice hyperbole. Wow.


Perhaps, but it's apt. To you, it's no big deal for a woman to go into a room where people p1ss and sh1t in order to feed her baby. Just like many southerners felt it was no big deal for coloreds to drink from that fountain instead of this one. Put yourself on the other side of both situations.
   133. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4193177)
Oh man, now LoMo is gonna go after Jack Keefe.
   134. DA Baracus Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:11 PM (#4193178)
Nice try.


Do you even read what you write? Vlad in post 75 and Salajander in post 86 said Morrison was rude and you argued with them about it in posts 85 and 93, respectively. Then in 110 you said it was rude.
   135. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4193179)
Jaffe and Calcaterra would have gone after Morrison whether there was a picture or not.


Yes, they probably would have, because complaining about some poor, tired mother taking a minute to feed her baby was still a rude and thoughtless thing for him to do - albeit not as rude and thoughtless as what he actually did.

When people do rude, thoughtless things, other people criticize them. I'm still not seeing the problem here.
   136. Poster Nutbag Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4193181)
We got a Keefe post! All is well.
   137. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:15 PM (#4193182)
Yeah, but they could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting.
   138. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4193183)
Yeah, but they could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting.


Isn't that exactly what we've been doing here?
   139. DKDC Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4193187)
Breastfeeding in public makes me uncomfortable because I feel the need to be overly polite by looking away/walking in the other direction. It can be quite inconvenient and challenging to navigate a public area when you are surrounded by multiple breastfeeding mothers. But I do support the right for mothers to do it even though I have some resentment towards the militant pro-breastfeeders for making my wife feel like a criminal when my daughter was unable to breastfeed.

Logan Morrison is a jerk for taking a picture and posting it on the internet. If he had just posted that message, I don't find it all that offensive for him to express that opinion even though I disagree.

Jaffe's response was lame and he comes off as a pretty big jerk too, in my book.
   140. Howie Menckel Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:19 PM (#4193190)

"Yeah, but they could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting."

Geesh, that would be awfully - civilized.


   141. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4193191)
Jaffe's response was lame and he comes off as a pretty big jerk too, in my book.
Ehh, it's just snark that was a little too mean. Jaffe's good people -- he bought me booze.
   142. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4193192)

Isn't that exactly what we've been doing here?


I'm not criticizing you guys, I'm criticizing Jaffe.
   143. DKDC Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:25 PM (#4193193)

Ehh, it's just snark that was a little too mean. Jaffe's good people -- he bought me booze.


Shut up and post pointless things on BBTF, LaMa.
   144. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:27 PM (#4193194)
Shut up and post pointless things on BBTF, LaMa.
But...
   145. salajander Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:28 PM (#4193195)
a few "liberal" this and "lefty" tha

Quite honestly this was what I felt was (a sort of) trolling. How is this a political issue, other than in some sort of crazy false dichotomy?
   146. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4193196)
Perhaps, but it's apt. To you, it's no big deal for a woman to go into a room where people p1ss and sh1t in order to feed her baby. Just like many southerners felt it was no big deal for coloreds to drink from that fountain instead of this one. Put yourself on the other side of both situations.

Doubling down, huh? Logan Morrison apparently dislikes public breastfeeding. It's quite a leap to suggest he sees lactating women as second-class humans.

***
Yes, they probably would have, because complaining about some poor, tired mother taking a minute to feed her baby was still a rude and thoughtless thing for him to do - albeit not as rude and thoughtless as what he actually did.

So, here again, merely raising the topic for discussion would have been "rude and thoughtless" in and of itself. Quite a country we've become.
   147. JLAC is engulfed in a harmless burst of flame Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:29 PM (#4193197)
Are you implying that Romney is a Nazi, Vlad?


That's the most ham-handed joke I ever saw or you have the WORST reading comprehension I can imagine, GGC.
   148. SteveF Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:31 PM (#4193199)
The contradiction I find in the argument mainly is in the appeal to rudeness/manners. If we define ill-mannered/rude behavior as that which violates social norms, then according to a poll by the CDC, breastfeeding in public is ill-mannered and rude behavior.

Personally, my reaction is primarily aesthetic. I don't much care for the sight of a child breastfeeding, but my higher brain functions understand that as a matter of public policy, women need to be allowed to breastfeed in public for reasons that go beyond manners. I care even less for someone photographing a woman breastfeeding and posting that photo on the internet, and I see no real public policy reason for allowing people to engage in that specific act, but I recognize excellent reasons for why there isn't a law against it.

I just find the appeal to manners to be a contradictory position in this context insofar as people are applying it in an inconsistent fashion.
   149. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:32 PM (#4193200)
I have some resentment towards the militant pro-breastfeeders for making my wife feel like a criminal when my daughter was unable to breastfeed.


I agree that this sucks.
   150. Sheer Tim Foli Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4193201)
Our Jack Keefe rocks.
   151. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4193203)
From that survey:

The overall population appears to approve of breastfeeding in public, but less-educated or older people (aged >/=45 years) are less likely to do so.
   152. SteveF Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4193205)
I don't understand how you are parsing the data to reach that conclusion, though I read that in the abstract. The data I looked at:

"Women should have the right to breastfeed their infants in public. (43% agree)" That seems fairly conclusive. Perhaps the abstract is wrongly worded and means if we exclude less educated, older people the numbers would result in that conclusion. The webmd blog post seems to support that interpretation.
   153. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4193206)
Are you implying that Romney is a Nazi, Vlad?
GGC - I think you're being serious here, so I'll clarify. If I'm the one missing the joke, then that's my bad. Read the progression on the last page from #62 -> #72 -> #87. That's where the bit came from.

I think Jaffe's response was dumb. It didn't really seem like the thing to discuss, given that LoMo had been a total dickbag.

To Steve- manners aren't defined by majority rule, they're greatly also about using our moral judgment about what is the best, most caring way to treat others. It may be that I disagree with the "majority" about some quesitons in manners, but not in others. That is not inconsistent.
   154. My Grate Friend Peason's pants are rankled Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4193208)
It can be quite inconvenient and challenging to navigate a public area when you are surrounded by multiple breastfeeding mothers.


It's an invasion!
   155. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4193209)
Quite honestly this was what I felt was (a sort of) trolling. How is this a political issue, other than in some sort of crazy false dichotomy?

I made exactly ONE reference to "lefties" — a throwaway, jocular line that I thought would immediately be recognized as a recurring theme of the "OT: Politics" thread and be shrugged off accordingly. I love BBTF, but people take this stuff way too seriously.
   156. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4193210)
That's the most ham-handed joke I ever saw or you have the WORST reading comprehension I can imagine, GGC.


I'll quote the sentence from post 99:

Mitt Romney absolutely has the right to admit that he's a Nazi, if he feels like doing so.

I was going by the definition for admit " to concede as true or valid." I'm sorry if I misread you, Vlad.
   157. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4193211)
"Women should have the right to breastfeed their infants in public. (43% agree)" That seems fairly conclusive.
I think there's a survey design problem here. We walk by breastfeeding mothers all the time without noticing, because most women get pretty good at disguising it. (Having jerks like LoMo around helps you learn.) I think that phrasing the question simply as "breastfeeding in public" without describing typical breastfeeding practices, they leave it open for people to imagine crazy topless breastfeeding that basically never actually happens. I don't buy that a majority of people actually disapprove of the normal, careful, modest form of public breastfeeding that actually goes on.
   158. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4193214)
I don't understand how you are parsing the data to reach that conclusion, though I read that in the abstract. The data I looked at:

"Women should have the right to breastfeed their infants in public. (43% agree)" That seems fairly conclusive. Perhaps the abstract is wrongly worded and means if we exclude less educated, older people the numbers would result in that conclusion. The webmd blog post seems to support that interpretation.


I'll admit it- I just pulled that quote from the abstract and didn't look at the underlying data. My apologies for implying you were incorrect.

The only other point I'll make is I think that survey was from 2001, so attitudes may have shifted over the last ten years (particularly if the aged were disproportionately responsible for the disapproval).
   159. SteveF Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4193215)
they're greatly also about using our moral judgment about what is the best


What's the difference between a moral judgment and a regular judgment? Is it simply the subject matter? And if it is simply the subject matter, how do we decide which subjects are about morality and which aren't? At some point, the opinions of other people come into it. It's a fair point that morals aren't necessarily about majority rule, but morals are really about shared opinions and not individual ones.
   160. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4193217)
Cripes, I read that post in isolation without context. I'm terrible at the internet. Sorry about that guys.
   161. AJMcCringleberry Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:47 PM (#4193218)
Morrison should just say he's a paparazzi, then he can take pictures of anyone he wants.
   162. salajander Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4193219)
a throwaway, jocular line that I thought would immediately be recognized as a recurring theme of the "OT: Politics" thread and be shrugged off accordingly

Then please take my "troll" accusation the same way.
   163. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:48 PM (#4193220)
106. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4193139)
[ Ignored Comment ]


Ah, that's better.
   164. SteveF Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4193222)
The only other point I'll make is I think that survey was from 2001


Agreed.
   165. Guapo Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:51 PM (#4193224)
I'll tie this thread back into baseball. My wife is nursing and we went to Nationals Park with our infant earlier this year. On the Nationals' website, they say the following about nursing:

Nursing Mothers
Nursing mothers are invited to use one of several Family Restrooms.


If you've ever been in a Family Restroom in Nationals Park (and I assume most ballparks) you know what an unappealing option that is. We were like, #### that. So when it was feeding time, we went up to the lounge-like outside area up by the scoreboard where they have couches and lounge chairs and she whipped it out up there. I was fully prepared for some drunken jackass to say something (and there are a fair amount of drunken jackasses in that part of the park) but everybody left us alone (except for a few nice drunk women who told us how cute our baby was).
   166. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:51 PM (#4193225)
To Steve- manners aren't defined by majority rule, they're greatly also about using our moral judgment about what is the best, most caring way to treat others. It may be that I disagree with the "majority" about some quesitons in manners, but not in others. That is not inconsistent.

Manners are a type of social norm, and habits or customs become norms by being followed or approved by a vast majority of a population. Until such time that a social norm evolves, it's presumptuous for people to claim to have superior manners. All they really have is a contrary opinion.
   167. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:54 PM (#4193230)
If we define ill-mannered/rude behavior as that which violates social norms, then according to a poll by the CDC, breastfeeding in public is ill-mannered and rude behavior.


Did you actually read the abstract of that study? I quote: "The overall population appears to approve of breastfeeding in public, but less-educated or older people (aged >/=45 years) are less likely to do so."

Also from the abstract: "To understand the public beliefs about breastfeeding policies in various settings and to examine the associations of these beliefs with sociodemographic characteristics, we analyze the data from the 2001 Healthstyles survey, which is an annual national mail survey to US adults." If you look at the 2001 Healthstyles survey, you see that in response to the statement, "I believe women should have the right to breastfeed in public places," 43.1% agreed, 28.2% disagreed, and 28.6% neither agreed nor disagreed. So even back then, public breastfeeding enjoyed a strong plurality of support.

If you look at the most recent Healthstyles survey to ask about public breastfeeding, from 2010, the response to that statement has tilted even further in favor of public breastfeeding, with 58.64% agreeing, 17.94% disagreeing, and 23.42% neither agreeing nor disagreeing.
   168. SteveF Posted: July 26, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4193234)
statement has tilted even further in favor of public breastfeeding, with 58.64% agreeing


Thanks for this. I stand corrected. I appreciate the time you took to find that.
   169. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4193236)
I was going by the definition for admit "to concede as true or valid." I'm sorry if I misread you, Vlad.


It's all good.

For the record, yeah, I was just responding to Rudy's bit from #87 where he said, "What if, instead of talking about breastfeeding, Morrison had announced he was a Nazi? And, instead of Morrison, it was Mitt Romney?"

I don't think that Romney is a closeted Nazi, because I don't actually think that Mitt Romney believes in anything at all, but that's neither here nor there.
   170. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4193239)
Thanks for this. I stand corrected. I appreciate the time you took to find that.


Hey, no problem. Thanks for being a gentleman about it.
   171. PerroX Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4193242)
Link to the picture, please. I'd like to add it to my collection.
   172. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:08 PM (#4193246)
Link to the picture, please. I'd like to add it to my collection.


Sure, here you go.
   173. PerroX Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:18 PM (#4193258)
Not only can't Morrison hit, he sucks as a photographer.
   174. Into the Void Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4193261)
Link to the picture, please. I'd like to add it to my collection.


Heh, typical liberal...you have a photo collection of women that are breastfeeding, yet you want to stomp out Logan Morrison's right to free speech.
   175. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4193266)
Do you even read what you write? Vlad in post 75 and Salajander in post 86 said Morrison was rude and you argued with them about it in posts 85 and 93, respectively. Then in 110 you said it was rude.

Take things out of context much? I disagreed with the idea that merely expressing his opinion was rude.

As for this infamous picture, I believe it was rude of him to take it, but less rude of him to post it online, given that it was so blurry as to be anonymous.
   176. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: July 26, 2012 at 10:38 PM (#4193275)
Count me with those who think it's rude to take and post photos of women breastfeeding without their consent.
No LoMo.
   177. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4193303)
Can we just fold this into the catchall politics thread? Because that's where this seems to have gone.
   178. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4193308)

Where's Captain Renault when we need him?
   179. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:21 PM (#4193321)
The next question is: how will Ozzie react?
"I'll tell you this, if some ###### tried to ####### ####### in my ######### ####### shop, and some ####### son of a ####### blogger tried to ####### ##### ######## my ###### ##### goat ###### when I ######## just because ####### can ##### hit .240 without #######, I'd ##### ###### their ######, but I do like seeing the ####### ######## so what do I know, I'm just saying I'd ##### the ######## out of those #######."
   180. Srul Itza Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:22 PM (#4193322)
And as a follow-up, over 20 years on the intertubes and I should know better than to feed the trolls, but there I went.


BINGO.

There's a reason I keep this jack-off on ignore.
   181. Tripon Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:26 PM (#4193324)
You know, Ignore doesn't really work when YOU KEEP ON TELLING THE PEOPLE YOU PUT ON IGNORE THAT THEY'RE ON YOUR IGNORE LIST.

   182. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:32 PM (#4193330)
LoMo's obviously a jackass.

BTW, there's a middle ground between yes-breastfeed-in-public and no-don't-breastfeed-in-public. You can use a "hooter-hider" or similar problem. It's still breastfeeding in public, technically, but everything's quite covered up (including the kid, actually) and it doesn't make other people quite as uncomfortable.
   183. DA Baracus Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:33 PM (#4193334)
As for this infamous picture, I believe it was rude of him to take it


So reading in general is your problem, because you disagreed with this:

Whaaaaa? Most of the posters aren't saying Morrison's twitter post and picture are illegal. They are saying it was rude.


   184. Srul Itza Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4193335)
You know, Ignore doesn't really work when YOU KEEP ON TELLING THE PEOPLE YOU PUT ON IGNORE THAT THEY'RE ON YOUR IGNORE LIST.


I am not sure you understand how Ignore works.
   185. Barnaby Jones Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:46 PM (#4193340)
I don't think Joe is a troll. It just seems like he enjoys sharing his contrarian views, but puts very little effort into actually trying to understand what other people are saying (because he just assumes they are wrong). This has the unfortunate effect of being a lot like trolling, even if it lacks the same malice.
   186. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4193343)
@185: So, instead of "trolling", it's "stupidity".
   187. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4193350)
106. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 26, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4193139)
[ Ignored Comment ]

Ah, that's better.

BINGO.

There's a reason I keep this jack-off on ignore.


LOL.

The only thing more lame than using Ignore is telling someone they're on Ignore, as if it's supposed to wound them.
   188. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:04 AM (#4193355)
(and there are a fair amount of drunken jackasses in that part of the park)


Yeah, they won't let me down by the field anymore.
   189. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4193356)
The only thing more lame than using Ignore is telling someone they're on Ignore, as if it's supposed to wound them.


Since both of the people you're quoting have you on ignore, Joe, to whom are you talking right now?
   190. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4193361)
Since both of the people you're quoting have you on ignore, Joe, to whom are you talking right now?

#187 was just a general comment. I couldn't care less if my fan club reads it or not.
   191. Steve Treder Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:36 AM (#4193363)
R-i-i-ght.
   192. Tripon Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:54 AM (#4193371)
I am not sure you understand how Ignore works.


I know how ignore works. But its pretty down right rude to go ahead and tell everyone who you have on your ignore list. Why the heck do you think anyone cares in the first place that you can't get along with somebody?
   193. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 27, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4193372)
I don't think Joe is a troll. It just seems like he enjoys sharing his contrarian views, but puts very little effort into actually trying to understand what other people are saying (because he just assumes they are wrong). This has the unfortunate effect of being a lot like trolling, even if it lacks the same malice.

Well, uh, thanks?

At no point in this thread was I trolling or quasi-trolling or anything of the sort. I never cheered Morrison's actions nor did I even take a position on breastfeeding in public. (For the record, I have no problem with it, except in the very rare cases when it's performance art — e.g., the woman I mentioned earlier whose breast was hanging out while I was eating 2 feet away.)

As with Tucson, Trayvon, Aurora, etc., some of the screamers here seem incapable of having a general, dispassionate discussion that's divorced from the specific incident that inspired it. Logan Morrison might be an annoying jerk, but he has a position on public breastfeeding that's apparently shared by at least 25 to 40 percent of the population. So why all the outrage?

I stand completely by my original premises: (1) People should have no expectation of privacy when they're in public — this has always been true, and it's especially true now that almost everyone has a phone in their pocket 24/7; and (2) If breastfeeding in public is just another normal activity that's perfectly acceptable in any public setting, then there should be no objection to pictures being taken (from a non-threatening distance, etc.).

Let's forget Logan Morrison for a minute. For the people who believe this woman had a right to privacy while sitting in the middle of a department store, should Nordstrom's security department have shut down all of their surveillance cameras in the vicinity of this woman as soon as she was spotted breastfeeding? I'm guessing there's far higher-quality footage of this woman in the Nordstrom security department than there is on Logan Morrison's cell phone.
   194. Poster Nutbag Posted: July 27, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4193385)
I don't think Joe is a troll. It just seems like he enjoys sharing his contrarian views, but puts very little effort into actually trying to understand what other people are saying (because he just assumes they are wrong). This has the unfortunate effect of being a lot like trolling, even if it lacks the same malice.


So....Bill James does post here?
   195. Barnaby Jones Posted: July 27, 2012 at 01:53 AM (#4193387)
I stand completely by my original premises: (1) People should have no expectation of privacy when they're in public — this has always been true, and it's especially true now that almost everyone has a phone in their pocket 24/7; and (2) If breastfeeding in public is just another normal activity that's perfectly acceptable in any public setting, then there should be no objection to pictures being taken (from a non-threatening distance, etc.).


Of course you do. Because you haven't internalized anything anyone else has said in this thread. Because you don't seem to understand the actual argument anyone has made.
   196. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:07 AM (#4193390)
Of course you do. Because you haven't internalized anything anyone else has said in this thread. Because you don't seem to understand the actual argument anyone has made.

No, I understand them completely, and I disagree with (most of) them.

I don't believe a person sitting in the middle of a department store or restaurant or public park has any expectation of privacy. If it's OK for the public to witness something, then it's OK for the public to take pictures of it.
   197. CFiJ Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:15 AM (#4193395)
Sure, here you go.
Okay, before I click on this, I'm calling it as an Albright.

EDIT: Called it.
   198. Barnaby Jones Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:37 AM (#4193403)
No, I understand them completely [...] I don't believe a person sitting in the middle of a department store or restaurant or public park has any expectation of privacy.


Mmhmm... QED
   199. vivaelpujols Posted: July 27, 2012 at 02:46 AM (#4193406)
Joe Kehoskie is the guy who defended George Zimmerman:

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/please_read_this_story_and_tell_me_what_you_think/

So I'm guessing he's just a massive contrarian (not that there's anything wrong with that). In this case, I don't think there's anything particularly immoral about what LoMo did, but he comes off as a whiny teenage girl (who posts pictures about their day on twitter anyway?).
   200. Joe Kehoskie Posted: July 27, 2012 at 03:03 AM (#4193410)
Joe Kehoskie is the guy who defended George Zimmerman:

Yes, and that one is looking good, too. Despite the BBTF lynch mob's absolute certainty that Zimmerman was a member of the Klan, the FBI's extensive investigation apparently yielded zero evidence that Zimmerman is a racist. Meanwhile, the very liberal Alan Dershowitz, one of America's greatest legal minds, has called the prosecution of Zimmerman "irresponsible and unethical."
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