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So you're asserting that he should be able to tweet about (essentially) anything he wants and any backlash he gets is just typical lefty response? Are people not allowed to comment on this? And I still don't understand how this is somehow political.
EDIT: Yeah, stop feeding the troll.
It's rude and creepy to take a woman's picture without getting her permission, regardless of whether she's identifiable in the picture or not. What part of "rude and creepy" are you not getting?
Yes, they would. And they'd be entirely justified in doing so, since they're only exercising their right to free speech.
None of which makes the fact that Morrison took and published the woman's picture any less rude or creepy.
Where the heck did you get that from?
Me, too. It's a keeper.
Prove he's not.
Who knows? I cherish privacy so much that I'm not on Facebook at all.
***
Um, no. The point was, people in public places have their picture taken all the time without their permission. It's how this pesky "public" thing works.
He said "admit" he is a Nazi. That sounds like implying to me.
Breastfeeding in public is popular and criticizing it is not (except where it isn't and like there was no proof put out for this position).
Anything legal to do is A OK and darn polite too I guess (except in any rational world it isn't).
Criticizing someone breastfeeding is Free Speech! Criticizing someone criticizing the previous person is a lefty horror show of evil and group think to boot.
Joe K knows what would have happened if something else would have happened and is darn upset about that too.
---
And yes I have no problem with breastfeeding in public (newsflash raising kids is hard work, make it easier) and it is hardly a burden to avert ones eyes if exposed "icky lady parts" make baby Jesus cry or something.
And yes tweeting a picture of someone engaged in something as normal as breastfeeding is rude. Being against public breastfeeding is backward. And hey both being rude and backward are legal and I will defend the backward rude ######## right to be that way.
Yes, I posted here for 2 years as a cover for my nefarious future plans to "troll" a thread about Logan Morrison and breastfeeding. You caught me.
"Troll' is the most overused word on BBTF.
***
Two things can be true at once. Morrison thought it was "rude" for this woman to breastfeed in a public place when comfortable restrooms were likely only a few steps away. Likewise, Morrison's picture-taking can be described as "rude and creepy."
Not getting, or intentionally dismissing? Over and over.
(Edit: Just saw #110)
Let's face the facts, this issue is clearly some leftist/rightist thing and we should judge some people for expressing their outrage (and for not aligning with a particular political/social philosophy), because other people should be able to express their outrage (so long as it does align itself with the appropriate political/social philosophy).
So, line up, two sides only....
Yes. People in public do lots of different rude or creepy things all the time. They stand too close to you on the subway even though they're all gross and sweaty. They sniff bicycle seats. They give you the finger, or tell you to eat #### and die. They pick their noses and eat the snot, or flick it on the floor. They lean over and try to stare down women's blouses with laser-focused intensity. They use the bathroom without washing their hands, and then walk over and grab a bagel from the shared work food repository.
You can do any of those things in public and be within your legal rights, but that won't make you any less of an #######.
Yeah, no ####.
THAT IS ALL I AM ####### SAYING.
So you agree with everyone that you've been disagreeing with. Congratulations on wasting your own time.
Maybe he did. So what? His opinion turns out to be unpopular, and as a result, he's receiving criticism for expressing it.
The system works!
Just like it was rude for blacks to drink from a whites only fountain when there was a perfectly good colored one a few steps away? Who are you or Lo mo to tell someone you have to feed your baby in an unsanitary place used primarily for extraction of human waste?
If a woman is breast feeding her child by stripping down to her waist and flaunting her boobies for everyone to see, that's one thing. But 99.9% of women brestfeeding in public do it covertly with a minimum of exposed flesh. Indeed, much less than you'll see in Nordstrom's lingerie department.
Yet another PR disaster for the Marlins, a la Ozzie and Fidel this spring. I eagerly await a nurse-in outside Marlins Park in the near future.
Bah. Nobody gives 2 shits about this train wreck of a team. I feel sorry for my 12 year old son who worships them. But then I grew up a Cubs fan in the 70's, so I can relate. But I'm not looking forward to the day Gio Stanton is traded for Camron Maybin II.
Jay Jaffe already said all that needs to be said.
Yeah, but he could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting.
Why?
Or is it the general asshattery of "someone is doing something I can't do, so I'll be a jerk about it" that some people have?
Lately I've decided that Dinosaur BBQ isn't actually all that great.
Nice try. It was creepy for Morrison to take the picture, but the woman in question is essentially unidentifiable in the resulting blurry picture. Jaffe and Calcaterra would have gone after Morrison whether there was a picture or not. This was guaranteed page clicks, picture or no picture.
***
Nice hyperbole. Wow.
QFT. Every time someone gets annoyed they scream "Troll". At least Joe K stayed in the conversation, and other than a few "liberal" this and "lefty" that mostly sort of refrained from calling names.
Pretty much. I also feel that Nordstrom should have a special area for breastfeeding, besides the public restrooms, so mom who want to breastfeed know that jerks like LoMo aren't watching them.
Perhaps, but it's apt. To you, it's no big deal for a woman to go into a room where people p1ss and sh1t in order to feed her baby. Just like many southerners felt it was no big deal for coloreds to drink from that fountain instead of this one. Put yourself on the other side of both situations.
Do you even read what you write? Vlad in post 75 and Salajander in post 86 said Morrison was rude and you argued with them about it in posts 85 and 93, respectively. Then in 110 you said it was rude.
Yes, they probably would have, because complaining about some poor, tired mother taking a minute to feed her baby was still a rude and thoughtless thing for him to do - albeit not as rude and thoughtless as what he actually did.
When people do rude, thoughtless things, other people criticize them. I'm still not seeing the problem here.
Isn't that exactly what we've been doing here?
Logan Morrison is a jerk for taking a picture and posting it on the internet. If he had just posted that message, I don't find it all that offensive for him to express that opinion even though I disagree.
Jaffe's response was lame and he comes off as a pretty big jerk too, in my book.
"Yeah, but they could have just criticized the tweet instead of Morrison's hitting."
Geesh, that would be awfully - civilized.
I'm not criticizing you guys, I'm criticizing Jaffe.
Shut up and post pointless things on BBTF, LaMa.
Quite honestly this was what I felt was (a sort of) trolling. How is this a political issue, other than in some sort of crazy false dichotomy?
Doubling down, huh? Logan Morrison apparently dislikes public breastfeeding. It's quite a leap to suggest he sees lactating women as second-class humans.
***
So, here again, merely raising the topic for discussion would have been "rude and thoughtless" in and of itself. Quite a country we've become.
That's the most ham-handed joke I ever saw or you have the WORST reading comprehension I can imagine, GGC.
Personally, my reaction is primarily aesthetic. I don't much care for the sight of a child breastfeeding, but my higher brain functions understand that as a matter of public policy, women need to be allowed to breastfeed in public for reasons that go beyond manners. I care even less for someone photographing a woman breastfeeding and posting that photo on the internet, and I see no real public policy reason for allowing people to engage in that specific act, but I recognize excellent reasons for why there isn't a law against it.
I just find the appeal to manners to be a contradictory position in this context insofar as people are applying it in an inconsistent fashion.
I agree that this sucks.
"Women should have the right to breastfeed their infants in public. (43% agree)" That seems fairly conclusive. Perhaps the abstract is wrongly worded and means if we exclude less educated, older people the numbers would result in that conclusion. The webmd blog post seems to support that interpretation.
I think Jaffe's response was dumb. It didn't really seem like the thing to discuss, given that LoMo had been a total dickbag.
To Steve- manners aren't defined by majority rule, they're greatly also about using our moral judgment about what is the best, most caring way to treat others. It may be that I disagree with the "majority" about some quesitons in manners, but not in others. That is not inconsistent.
It's an invasion!
I made exactly ONE reference to "lefties" — a throwaway, jocular line that I thought would immediately be recognized as a recurring theme of the "OT: Politics" thread and be shrugged off accordingly. I love BBTF, but people take this stuff way too seriously.
I'll quote the sentence from post 99:
Mitt Romney absolutely has the right to admit that he's a Nazi, if he feels like doing so.
I was going by the definition for admit " to concede as true or valid." I'm sorry if I misread you, Vlad.
I'll admit it- I just pulled that quote from the abstract and didn't look at the underlying data. My apologies for implying you were incorrect.
The only other point I'll make is I think that survey was from 2001, so attitudes may have shifted over the last ten years (particularly if the aged were disproportionately responsible for the disapproval).
What's the difference between a moral judgment and a regular judgment? Is it simply the subject matter? And if it is simply the subject matter, how do we decide which subjects are about morality and which aren't? At some point, the opinions of other people come into it. It's a fair point that morals aren't necessarily about majority rule, but morals are really about shared opinions and not individual ones.
Then please take my "troll" accusation the same way.
Ah, that's better.
Agreed.
If you've ever been in a Family Restroom in Nationals Park (and I assume most ballparks) you know what an unappealing option that is. We were like, #### that. So when it was feeding time, we went up to the lounge-like outside area up by the scoreboard where they have couches and lounge chairs and she whipped it out up there. I was fully prepared for some drunken jackass to say something (and there are a fair amount of drunken jackasses in that part of the park) but everybody left us alone (except for a few nice drunk women who told us how cute our baby was).
Manners are a type of social norm, and habits or customs become norms by being followed or approved by a vast majority of a population. Until such time that a social norm evolves, it's presumptuous for people to claim to have superior manners. All they really have is a contrary opinion.
Did you actually read the abstract of that study? I quote: "The overall population appears to approve of breastfeeding in public, but less-educated or older people (aged >/=45 years) are less likely to do so."
Also from the abstract: "To understand the public beliefs about breastfeeding policies in various settings and to examine the associations of these beliefs with sociodemographic characteristics, we analyze the data from the 2001 Healthstyles survey, which is an annual national mail survey to US adults." If you look at the 2001 Healthstyles survey, you see that in response to the statement, "I believe women should have the right to breastfeed in public places," 43.1% agreed, 28.2% disagreed, and 28.6% neither agreed nor disagreed. So even back then, public breastfeeding enjoyed a strong plurality of support.
If you look at the most recent Healthstyles survey to ask about public breastfeeding, from 2010, the response to that statement has tilted even further in favor of public breastfeeding, with 58.64% agreeing, 17.94% disagreeing, and 23.42% neither agreeing nor disagreeing.
Thanks for this. I stand corrected. I appreciate the time you took to find that.
It's all good.
For the record, yeah, I was just responding to Rudy's bit from #87 where he said, "What if, instead of talking about breastfeeding, Morrison had announced he was a Nazi? And, instead of Morrison, it was Mitt Romney?"
I don't think that Romney is a closeted Nazi, because I don't actually think that Mitt Romney believes in anything at all, but that's neither here nor there.
Hey, no problem. Thanks for being a gentleman about it.
Sure, here you go.
Heh, typical liberal...you have a photo collection of women that are breastfeeding, yet you want to stomp out Logan Morrison's right to free speech.
Take things out of context much? I disagreed with the idea that merely expressing his opinion was rude.
As for this infamous picture, I believe it was rude of him to take it, but less rude of him to post it online, given that it was so blurry as to be anonymous.
No LoMo.
Where's Captain Renault when we need him?
BINGO.
There's a reason I keep this jack-off on ignore.
BTW, there's a middle ground between yes-breastfeed-in-public and no-don't-breastfeed-in-public. You can use a "hooter-hider" or similar problem. It's still breastfeeding in public, technically, but everything's quite covered up (including the kid, actually) and it doesn't make other people quite as uncomfortable.
So reading in general is your problem, because you disagreed with this:
I am not sure you understand how Ignore works.
LOL.
The only thing more lame than using Ignore is telling someone they're on Ignore, as if it's supposed to wound them.
Yeah, they won't let me down by the field anymore.
Since both of the people you're quoting have you on ignore, Joe, to whom are you talking right now?
#187 was just a general comment. I couldn't care less if my fan club reads it or not.
I know how ignore works. But its pretty down right rude to go ahead and tell everyone who you have on your ignore list. Why the heck do you think anyone cares in the first place that you can't get along with somebody?
Well, uh, thanks?
At no point in this thread was I trolling or quasi-trolling or anything of the sort. I never cheered Morrison's actions nor did I even take a position on breastfeeding in public. (For the record, I have no problem with it, except in the very rare cases when it's performance art — e.g., the woman I mentioned earlier whose breast was hanging out while I was eating 2 feet away.)
As with Tucson, Trayvon, Aurora, etc., some of the screamers here seem incapable of having a general, dispassionate discussion that's divorced from the specific incident that inspired it. Logan Morrison might be an annoying jerk, but he has a position on public breastfeeding that's apparently shared by at least 25 to 40 percent of the population. So why all the outrage?
I stand completely by my original premises: (1) People should have no expectation of privacy when they're in public — this has always been true, and it's especially true now that almost everyone has a phone in their pocket 24/7; and (2) If breastfeeding in public is just another normal activity that's perfectly acceptable in any public setting, then there should be no objection to pictures being taken (from a non-threatening distance, etc.).
Let's forget Logan Morrison for a minute. For the people who believe this woman had a right to privacy while sitting in the middle of a department store, should Nordstrom's security department have shut down all of their surveillance cameras in the vicinity of this woman as soon as she was spotted breastfeeding? I'm guessing there's far higher-quality footage of this woman in the Nordstrom security department than there is on Logan Morrison's cell phone.
So....Bill James does post here?
Of course you do. Because you haven't internalized anything anyone else has said in this thread. Because you don't seem to understand the actual argument anyone has made.
No, I understand them completely, and I disagree with (most of) them.
I don't believe a person sitting in the middle of a department store or restaurant or public park has any expectation of privacy. If it's OK for the public to witness something, then it's OK for the public to take pictures of it.
Okay, before I click on this, I'm calling it as an Albright.
EDIT: Called it.
Mmhmm... QED
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/please_read_this_story_and_tell_me_what_you_think/
So I'm guessing he's just a massive contrarian (not that there's anything wrong with that). In this case, I don't think there's anything particularly immoral about what LoMo did, but he comes off as a whiny teenage girl (who posts pictures about their day on twitter anyway?).
Yes, and that one is looking good, too. Despite the BBTF lynch mob's absolute certainty that Zimmerman was a member of the Klan, the FBI's extensive investigation apparently yielded zero evidence that Zimmerman is a racist. Meanwhile, the very liberal Alan Dershowitz, one of America's greatest legal minds, has called the prosecution of Zimmerman "irresponsible and unethical."
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