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Tuesday, May 06, 2014

Calcaterra: Umpire Laz Diaz should be suspended for his antics in the Yankees-Angels game

The Laz: Hello it’s me.

Laz Diaz has a long history of making the game all about him, instigating arguments and making a big show of his authority on the field. Last night in the Yankees-Angels game it was no different.

When Yankees pitcher Shawn Kelley left the game he had some words for Diaz about the strike zone as he was leaving the field. A lot of players do that. They shouldn’t, but they do. It’s incumbent upon the umpire — or any authority figure dealing with a temper tantrum — to take the high road rather than exacerbate the situation. Show your authority by paying no mind to those who would fecklessly challenge it. Diaz, apparently, never learned this. Watch as he “shoos” Kelley off the field:

There’s no place for that. If Diaz ignores Kelley he walks off the field knowing that his protestations fell on deaf ears, as they should. Instead Diaz made it personal and all about him and ended up running Kelley and manager Joe Girardi from the game.

Repoz Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:07 AM | 84 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, yankees

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   1. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4700980)
Oh, okay, I have to say it, nice intro, Repoz.
   2. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:13 AM (#4700981)
He and about half the current umpires should be fired and replaced with people who understand that baseball is not, and should not be, about the umpires.
   3. Davo Dozier Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:28 AM (#4700991)
I've been watching baseball for a long time, and I've never seen a worse display of umpiring than what Diaz did in the 8th inning of last night's game. (And this isn't simple bias--I hate the Yankees with a passion and enjoy the Angels.) Laz Diaz was like Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun--I mean, in one inning, he ejected two Yankees (one by goading him into it!) and called six walks on their pitchers. If he had money on the Angels last night, I don't see how he could have umpired any differently.
   4. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:31 AM (#4700994)
It takes someone as contemptible as a Major League umpire for me to stick up for a Yankee, but I still have to say it: Diaz's antics were bush. Umpires should not be in the business of escalating confrontations as he did last night.
   5. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:32 AM (#4700996)
He and about half the current umpires should be fired and replaced with people who understand that baseball is not, and should not be, about the umpires.


Not defending Diaz here but just want to note that the current umps are roughly 1000% better about being confrontational than the 80s/90s guys. Diaz stood his ground and just gestured, Richie Garcia would have gone running over and gotten in Kelley's face. This is not a new problem (and it is a problem).
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:40 AM (#4701001)
I actually had it in my mind Diaz was one of the better umpires.
   7. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:42 AM (#4701003)
The funny thing is that Diaz was right in that Kelley was complaining about a pitch that was in fact called correctly, at least per Pitch F/X. But the contemptuous gestures by Diaz have no place in the game. The umpires are supposed to be the "adults" on the field, as it were. That was bush on Diaz' part.
   8. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:49 AM (#4701006)
Irrespective of this game/play (which I have yet to see)...
I have incredible respect for umpires - it's a really difficult gig to do well and it's not like you hear from people when you do well.

but just want to note that the current umps are roughly 1000% better about being confrontational than the 80s/90s guys.

This is true.
   9. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:49 AM (#4701007)
Diaz stood his ground and just gestured, Richie Garcia would have gone running over and gotten in Kelley's face. This is not a new problem (and it is a problem).

agreed. it's not optimal but it is better. but that is referencing a very, VERY low bar
   10. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:53 AM (#4701013)
I have incredible respect for umpires - it's a really difficult gig to do well and it's not like you hear from people when you do well.


I agree 100%. In fact I think they still are underpaid, as a group. But selfish attention-whoring ######## should have no place umpiring baseball games, and it baffles me that selfish attention-shoring ####### behavior continues to be tolerated in major league umpires.
   11. Rob_Wood Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:56 AM (#4701016)

wow, i am in the minority here -- i see nothing egregious about what diaz did as kelly was walking off the mound. sure, it would have been better had diaz simply took a stroll up the third base line (away from kelly), but that is not in the nature of an authoritative major league umpire. and diaz knows that he just called six (?) walks that basically decided the game for the angels, but he was not going to let the pitchers off the hook that easily.

anyway, i will be stunned if diaz is suspended over that incident.

by the by -- some here have said that the eighth inning was the worst umpiring they had ever seen. is that the general consensus? (i did not see the game)
   12. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 09:59 AM (#4701017)
10 - agreed, zeth
   13. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:01 AM (#4701019)
by the by -- some here have said that the eighth inning was the worst umpiring they had ever seen. is that the general consensus?

The grieving families of the passing birds killed by Livan Hernandez's "15 strikeouts" say no.
   14. The Original SJ Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:02 AM (#4701020)
   15. Davo Dozier Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:05 AM (#4701023)
#11--I have never seen worse. He umped the inning as though he'd just learned Joe Pesci would break his legs if the Yankees won.
   16. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:06 AM (#4701024)
davo

maybe there is youtube video of ken kaiser to help you understand what the nadir of bad looks like
   17. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:09 AM (#4701026)
I didn't watch the bottom of the inning, but the call that Girardi got himself thrown out of the game on was a strike at the knees. Ianetta just did such a shitty job of catching/framing it that it looked like it was in the dirt. But it was 100% a strike.
   18. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:11 AM (#4701027)
some here have said that the eighth inning was the worst umpiring they had ever seen. is that the general consensus? (i did not see the game)


This from Brooks Baseball;

Shawn Kelley 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

Matt Thornton - 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

Preston Claiborne - 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

I'm a bit skeptical of these strike zone plots in general so I'm not presenting this as absolute fact. However, the tool we have says that none of the pitches ruled a ball were called incorrectly in that 8th inning.
   19. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:12 AM (#4701028)
::watches the video::

Yeah, that was unprofessional.
   20. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:19 AM (#4701033)
He and about half the current umpires should be fired and replaced with people who understand that baseball is not, and should not be, about the umpires.

Agree totally. It would be nice if we could get rid of some these sorry-ass incompetent umpires, because they're the biggest problem in the game right right now.

Unfortunately, they're a ****ing union, so all of us are forced to suffer the consequences of their anti-meritocracy.
   21. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4701044)
How anyone can watch Girardi's shameful display and not think he should be suspended for a significant number of games is beyond me.

Girardi came out to argue a perfect strike, ended up embarrassing the umpire and basically spitting in his face given how close Girardi got to him. That set the stage for Diaz's behavior afterwards, and while Diaz should not have engaged in the silliness with Kelly, the far worse actor here was Girardi.

Did Diaz provoke Girardi? No. Girardi, according to the rules, shouldn't have been on the field to argue balls and strikes. Diaz eventually (and rightfully) threw him out.

(And Diaz's conduct goes on in beer league softball leagues all the time, and, as we see, in the majors. Not that that is a defense but it's not exactly surprising. It's Girardi who should be severely disciplined, on the order of 15 games. There's no place for that in the game.)
   22. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:41 AM (#4701048)
This from Brooks Baseball;

Shawn Kelley 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

Matt Thornton - 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

Preston Claiborne - 0 pitches in the strike zone called a ball

I'm a bit skeptical of these strike zone plots in general so I'm not presenting this as absolute fact. However, the tool we have says that none of the pitches ruled a ball were called incorrectly in that 8th inning.


Yeah, even if Diaz's calls weren't perfect -- even if -- the above is strong evidence that Diaz was not calling a crap strike zone. The pitches were missing.
   23. Lassus Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:45 AM (#4701051)
I.... agree with Ray.

Although I do understand that umpires should be MORE mature than managers, so I'm not altogether deaf to the complaints about Diaz here.
   24. winnipegwhip Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:46 AM (#4701055)
Ray, were you Richie Phillips in a previous life?
   25. Publius Publicola Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:50 AM (#4701058)
Since it was the Yankees, I think Diaz should be made dean of umpires.
   26. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4701069)
Ray, were you Richie Phillips in a previous life?


I typically come down against umpires and I'm not deaf to the complaints about Diaz, but obsessing over Diaz's conduct in light of Girardi's here seems to me like focusing on the kid shoplifting a candy bar instead of the guy with the ski mask who robbed the cashier.
   27. bobm Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:59 AM (#4701071)
[6] http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31372124


Poll: Joyce best umpire, West the worst
Posted on: August 17, 2011 10:57 am
By C. Trent Rosecrans

As soon as Jim Joyce made his infamous call costing Armando Galarraga a perfect game last year, we heard many in the game leap to Joyce's defense, calling him one of the best umpires in the game. A Sports Illustrated poll of players upholds that, but also finds another controversial name in its top five umpires in the game, as Joe West came in fifth with five percent of the vote.

Of course, a similar poll by Sports Illustrated had West the overwhelming choice as the worst umpire in baseball with a whopping 41 percent of players responding naming West.

As for the best, Joyce was the leader by a wide margin with 35 percent of the vote, followed by Tim McClelland (18 percent), Jim Wolf (7 percent), Laz Diaz (6 percent) and then West.

The poll was conducted in spring training and had 237 players respond to the survey. [...]
   28. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:01 AM (#4701072)
Richie Garcia would have gone running over and gotten in Kelley's face.


Garcia probably would have had some money on the game, too.
   29. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:05 AM (#4701080)
Of course, a similar poll by Sports Illustrated had West the overwhelming choice as the worst umpire in baseball with a whopping 41 percent of players responding naming West.

As for the best, Joyce was the leader by a wide margin with 35 percent of the vote, followed by Tim McClelland (18 percent), Jim Wolf (7 percent), Laz Diaz (6 percent) and then West.

West is actually pretty decent at making calls, which is why he shows up in the second vote. He's just such a confrontational ####### that he's easily seen as the worst. Diaz must be from the same school.



   30. stanmvp48 Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:13 AM (#4701088)
I have never known the reason for the distinction between arguing balls and strikes and arguing a safe/out call for example. Why is the manager permitted to do one and not the other?
   31. Matt Welch Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:15 AM (#4701093)
The Gardner pitch looked low to my naked eye, though I'm open to the optical illusion interpretation of bad framing. None of the 8th inning walkfest calls looked bad to me, at all. The contested Kendrick pitch was clearly below his knee. And yeah, Diaz's shooing maneuver was bush.
   32. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:21 AM (#4701101)
I have never known the reason for the distinction between arguing balls and strikes and arguing a safe/out call for example. Why is the manager permitted to do one and not the other?

Frequency, presumably. The number of bang-bang calls in a game vs. the number of pitches in a game.
   33. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4701103)
The Gardner pitch looked low to my naked eye, though I'm open to the optical illusion interpretation of bad framing.


Since I referenced it earlier I'll note that Brooks had it a bit low though not as blatantly low as it looked on TV.
   34. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4701111)
Jose, did you see the side angle they showed? It didn't look low at all there. It crossed Gardner's knees, as even Kay had to admit.
   35. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4701116)
Girardi came out to argue a perfect strike, ended up embarrassing the umpire and basically spitting in his face given how close Girardi got to him. That set the stage for Diaz's behavior afterwards, and while Diaz should not have engaged in the silliness with Kelly, the far worse actor here was Girardi.
I disagree. It shouldn't matter if Girardi came out and peed on Diaz's shoes; what Girardi did shouldn't excuse the way Diaz reacted to Kelly.

I do think Kelly (and all of the Yankees) should have had essentially no leash after the Girardi tirade (and Kelly deserved to be tossed), but Diaz didn't need to "shoo" him off the field. Give him one warning, then toss him.

   36. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4701127)
I have never known the reason for the distinction between arguing balls and strikes and arguing a safe/out call for example. Why is the manager permitted to do one and not the other?

I think it's because Earl Weaver used to argue (from the dugout) every pitch that went against his team. That's the way it sounded in the Ron Luciano books.

Or it could be that the stakes are lower with a ball/strike than safe/out. Or that a manager's view is clearly well off to the side while the ump is just there.

Really, though, it comes down to this - the umps want ball/strike arguments to be grounds for immediate ejection and MLB said OK. Arguments over balls/strikes really annoy umps the most.
   37. Bhaakon Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4701137)
I have never known the reason for the distinction between arguing balls and strikes and arguing a safe/out call for example. Why is the manager permitted to do one and not the other?


I've seen safe/out calls overturned if the umpire making the call had a bad view of the play. I've never seen a ball/strike call overturned, because, presumably, the home plate umpire is always looking directly at the ball passing through the zone. There's no ground for that call to be overturned.
   38. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4701139)
Jose, did you see the side angle they showed? It didn't look low at all there. It crossed Gardner's knees, as even Kay had to admit.


I did not. I just saw the head on angle on the highlights this morning. Either way it was a close enough pitch not to flip out THAT badly.


I do think Kelly (and all of the Yankees) should have had essentially no leash after the Girardi tirade (and Kelly deserved to be tossed), but Diaz didn't need to "shoo" him off the field. Give him one warning, then toss him.


I think this is an argument that Diaz was in fact being generous. Diaz would have certainly been in the right to run Kelley pretty quickly but gave him a couple of chances to shut up and get off the field.
   39. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:53 AM (#4701152)
Yeah, I think some of you guys are overreacting. Diaz didn't chase after Kelley or scream at him. He gestured that he should get off the field. It really wasn't that big of a deal.
   40. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4701154)
The Gardner pitch looked low to my naked eye, though I'm open to the optical illusion interpretation of bad framing.


When you look at the side angle, it's a perfect strike.
   41. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4701158)
I stand by #2, but I also sympathize with Ray (I didn't see the inning in question). I would strongly favor a rule that nonplayers aren't allowed on the field during play, period, other than the manager to make a pitching change. Otherwise, step on the field, get immediately ejected.

This would include mound visits, which are a waste of fans' time.
   42. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:06 PM (#4701162)
I stand by #2, but I also sympathize with Ray (I didn't see the inning in question). I would strongly favor a rule that nonplayers aren't allowed on the field during play, period, other than the manager to make a pitching change. Otherwise, step on the field, get immediately ejected.


You'll probably see a lot of guys getting thrown out at home plate, or staying at third when they could have scored easily.
   43. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:10 PM (#4701166)
LOL, yes, good catch. Base coaches excepted, of course.

Edit: And no, the manager may not evade this rule and get onto the field to argue with umpires by making himself the first base coach. I believe strongly that a world is possible wherein umpires are required to be respectful to players and coaches AND players and coaches aren't allowed to flip out and scream at them.
   44. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4701170)
LOL, yes, good catch. Base coaches excepted, of course.


But then why does the offense get to have someone come on the field to help them out, but a pitching coach can't come out during an inning and help the pitcher out?
   45. Publius Publicola Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:13 PM (#4701171)
I thought it was pretty rich of Giranrdi saying the fans don't come to watch umpires, when it was he who started the commotion and the fans don't come to see managers either.
   46. Dale Sams Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:15 PM (#4701173)
I come to see baseball. Managers making commotions is and has been a part of baseball forever.
   47. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:22 PM (#4701180)
why the doug harvey model never took hold will always puzzle me

   48. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:25 PM (#4701182)
This would include mound visits, which are a waste of fans' time.


My new recommendation on this subject is that managers should get one free mound visit per game, not per pitcher. On every subsequent visit, the pitcher has to come out.
   49. stanmvp48 Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:35 PM (#4701184)
Wasn't there an incident a few years ago when an umpire provoked milton bradley who somehow got injured? i can't remember the details or the outcome.
   50. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:40 PM (#4701187)
My new recommendation on this subject is that managers should get one free mound visit per game, not per pitcher. On every subsequent visit, the pitcher has to come out.


I agree. A few years ago when I wrote about the ruleset for a hypothetical baseball league that would compete on the basis of being very up-tempo, one of the stipuations was that each team gets one timeout per game, which it can dispense of as it pleases.


But then why does the offense get to have someone come on the field to help them out, but a pitching coach can't come out during an inning and help the pitcher out?


Because these are very different things. One happens within the natural flow of the game; the other interrupts it. Probably a closer analogy for baserunning coaches would be managers/coaches calling pitches from the bench.
   51. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4701188)
I'm not bothered by the mound visits per se, but I don't like when the mound visits are a stalling tactic. Same for throws to first or the catcher coming in for a conference. I don't really know what to do about it.
   52. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:43 PM (#4701190)
stan

yes. bradley hurt his knee in an argument with an ump
   53. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4701195)
Same for throws to first or the catcher coming in for a conference. I don't really know what to do about it.


Once the pitcher steps on the rubber he must face the batter. Not sure I like that rule but that covers it.
   54. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4701196)
I'm not bothered by the mound visits per se, but I don't like when the mound visits are a stalling tactic. Same for throws to first or the catcher coming in for a conference. I don't really know what to do about it.


Mound visits aren't important enough to protect; just outlaw them (or limit them to one a game, as described above.) No one will miss them.

Throws to first I would like to see limited, but I am surprised by the amount of flamage that elicits from fans. I accept I'm in the minority about that.

The catcher going to the mound is fine, as long as the umpire has leeway to crack down if it gets excessive. In a world where the pitching coach can no longer go out to stall for time for a reliever to warm up, teams would certainly try to get the catcher and/or infielders to do it. It's not hard for any fan watching on TV to tell when a team is just stalling, and it's not hard for an umpire to tell either. Empower the umpire to say "that's enough, no one's talking to the pitcher again this inning. Play ball."
   55. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4701197)
I haven't seen anything but the video of Diaz, but if the calls were as correct as those Brooks Baseball charts indicate, then the only real problem I'd have is Diaz throwing out Kelly rather than just let him keep walking into the dugout. AFAIC Diaz's initial hand gestures and Kelly's continued squawking while walking pretty much cancel each other out, and if Kelly had done nothing more than squawk 'n' walk, Diaz should've just either continued his gesturing until Kelly was in the dugout, or ignored him altogether..

As I said, I haven't seen what Kelly might have done beyond loudmouthing while walking that might have given Diaz cause to eject him. Is there a link to a camera that was focused on Kelly up to the point of his ejection?
   56. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:50 PM (#4701200)
My new recommendation on this subject is that managers should get one free mound visit per game, not per pitcher. On every subsequent visit, the pitcher has to come out.


I agree with this, and I think it would actually introduce a level of strategy...or expose the relative lack of value in these mound visits.

I started watching baseball in the early '80 as a kid, but I always had the sense that there was a generation of umpire in the 60s and 70s that were much bigger personalities, and that this trend was explicitly stamped out over the last 20 or 30 years. For example, the idea that an umpire today would be as big a personality as Ron Luciano (who authored a series of books in the 1980s), or would be as demonstrative/loud on their called strike three calls, is hard to imagine...
   57. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4701201)

My new recommendation on this subject is that managers should get one free mound visit per game, not per pitcher. On every subsequent visit, the pitcher has to come out.


So the manager waves the catcher over to the dugout, whispers a message for the pitcher in his ear, then the catcher relays it to the pitcher. How is that an improvement?
   58. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:51 PM (#4701203)
I'm not bothered by the mound visits per se, but I don't like when the mound visits are a stalling tactic. Same for throws to first or the catcher coming in for a conference. I don't really know what to do about it.


The catcher going to the mound is fine, as long as the umpire has leeway to crack down if it gets excessive....It's not hard for any fan watching on TV to tell when a team is just stalling, and it's not hard for an umpire to do it either. Empower the umpire to say "that's enough, no one's talking to the pitcher again this inning. Play ball."

That's how you'd go about it.
   59. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4701204)
As I said, I haven't seen what Kelly might have done beyond loudmouthing while walking that might have given Diaz cause to eject him. Is there a link to a camera that was focused on Kelly up to the point of his ejection?


There was one when I watched the highlights on my phone on the AtBat app. It's pretty garden variety stuff; Kelley is barking, Diaz barks and gestures, Kelley keeps barking etc...until the ejection.
   60. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4701205)
Mound visits aren't important enough to protect; just outlaw them (or limit them to one a game, as described above.) No one will miss them.

Throws to first I would like to see limited, but I am surprised by the amount of flamage that elicits from fans. I accept I'm in the minority about that.


I'd adopt the one mound visit per game rule, outlaw catcher visits (or limit to one per inning by any defensive team member) but wouldn't touch pickoff throws. I don't like messing with the balance there. And it is some action, even if it's often perfunctory.
   61. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 12:53 PM (#4701207)
So the manager waves the catcher over to the dugout, whispers a message for the pitcher in his ear, then the catcher relays it to the pitcher. How is that an improvement?


That kind of horseshit just wouldn't be allowed. Umpires aren't idiots. Given a directive to keep the game moving, they wouldn't allow it.
   62. John Northey Posted: May 06, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4701221)
Checking Brooks...
Shawn Kelley - one pitch out of the strike zone called a strike, one on the edge called a strike, the ball calls all had daylight between them and the zone
Matt Thornton - every pitch was a no-doubter, the 4 balls and the called strike were obvious calls
Preston Claiborne - balls were not even close to the strike zone

Other Yankees...
Adam Warren - 1 strike called a ball, 2 balls called strikes
David Phelps - 2 strikes called balls, 4 balls called strikes, 3 on edge called strikes

Hard to say the ump was anti-Yankee based on those results. A machine calling it would've gave the Yankees less.

Anaheim...
Weaver - 6 balls called strikes, no strikes called balls
Ernesto Friera - all called correct

So there is where an argument could be made. Weaver had a big zone 6 times, the Yankees had 7 balls called strikes, 3 strikes called balls for a net of +4 for them. Thus a 2 pitches called spread between them. Not sure how much of a factor that would be overall, but it doesn't seem drastic.
   63. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: May 06, 2014 at 01:07 PM (#4701222)
There was one when I watched the highlights on my phone on the AtBat app. It's pretty garden variety stuff; Kelley is barking, Diaz barks and gestures, Kelley keeps barking etc...until the ejection.

If that's all it was, then the blame for the escalation definitely goes to Diaz, even granting that Kelly had no grounds for complaint to begin with. If Kelly had walked over to Diaz and was getting in his face, then Diaz would have had no choice but to give him the thumb.
   64. Perry Posted: May 06, 2014 at 01:28 PM (#4701239)
So the manager waves the catcher over to the dugout, whispers a message for the pitcher in his ear, then the catcher relays it to the pitcher. How is that an improvement?


Pretty sure that counts as a visit now.

My new recommendation on this subject is that managers should get one free mound visit per game, not per pitcher. On every subsequent visit, the pitcher has to come out.


Didn't that use to be the AL rule? Or maybe it was once per inning in the AL, once per pitcher in the NL. I know the leagues used to differ on that.

   65. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 06, 2014 at 01:46 PM (#4701258)


Didn't that use to be the AL rule? Or maybe it was once per inning in the AL, once per pitcher in the NL. I know the leagues used to differ on that.


I don't know if the leagues differed in the number of visits a manager could make, but the AL limited the number of players allowed to congregate on the mound while the NL was more of an all-comers league.

   66. Sunday silence Posted: May 06, 2014 at 02:15 PM (#4701282)
I can take so much;
Till I've had enuf,
I'm only Hu-mannnnn,
Just a little HUUUUUUUU MANNNNNNN!
   67. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: May 06, 2014 at 02:55 PM (#4701331)
"Laz, come out...!"
   68. valuearbitrageur Posted: May 06, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4701333)
So the manager waves the catcher over to the dugout, whispers a message for the pitcher in his ear, then the catcher relays it to the pitcher. How is that an improvement?


This wouldn't matter if there was a rule forcing the pitcher to throw the next pitch in a timely manner, and if it were enforced.

If.
   69. A New Leaf (Black Hawk Reign of Terror) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:09 PM (#4701356)
Diaz's strike zone was fine. The ejection of Girardi was fine. The continuing to argue with Kelly and ejecting him when he was already out of the game was bizarre.
   70. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4701368)
The continuing to argue with Kelly and ejecting him when he was already out of the game was bizarre.


The issue I take with Diaz is that he was "shoo-ing" him off the field with that stupid little hand gesture that does nothing but piss Kelley off. I don't care how childish Kelley is acting, that doesn't excuse you from being a professional. Give him one warning, then eject him. Don't incite.
   71. TDF, situational idiot Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4701377)
If that's all it was, then the blame for the escalation definitely goes to Diaz, even granting that Kelly had no grounds for complaint to begin with. If Kelly had walked over to Diaz and was getting in his face, then Diaz would have had no choice but to give him the thumb...

Diaz's strike zone was fine. The ejection of Girardi was fine. The continuing to argue with Kelly and ejecting him when he was already out of the game was bizarre.
Again - after the Girardi rant (and Girardi was completely, totally out of line both in terms of his argument and how he argued it), I think the Yankees deserved a very short leash, especially on ball/strike calls. And I think that after Diaz told him to shut up a number of times Kelly deserved to get ran.

Ignore how Diaz did it and focus on the what and why. He did the right thing for the right reason, he just did it poorly.
   72. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:23 PM (#4701386)
Ignore how Diaz did it and focus on the what and why. He did the right thing for the right reason, he just did it poorly.


I think this is correct, but Diaz and all his ilk ought to be instructed in no uncertain terms to either stop being dicks or start looking for a new line of work.
   73. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4701391)
And I think that after Diaz told him to shut up a number of times Kelly deserved to get ran.


And, of course, unless the league fines him, the ejection cost him nothing. It had no bearing on the game or the Yankees. He was already removed from the contest.
   74. Canker Soriano Posted: May 06, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4701427)
So the manager waves the catcher over to the dugout, whispers a message for the pitcher in his ear, then the catcher relays it to the pitcher. How is that an improvement?

Pretty sure that counts as a visit now.


It does. I can remember a Cubs game from ~30 years ago - the manager (probably either Jim Frey or Don Zimmer) made a visit to the mound, then later in the inning called the first baseman over to the dugout and told him something. The 1B went to the mound to talk to the pitcher. Tommy Lasorda came out of the other dugout and protested that the pitcher needed to come out of the game because that counted as two visits, and the umps agreed.

I want to say the pitcher was Lee Smith.

EDIT: I love the internet. July 1, 1984 - Cubs 4, Dodgers 3. There's a description in the article here.
   75. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: May 06, 2014 at 06:33 PM (#4701585)
I don't care how childish Kelley is acting, that doesn't excuse you from being a professional. Give him one warning, then eject him. Don't incite.


Agreed. But Kelley was completely in the wrong here.
   76. Bhaakon Posted: May 06, 2014 at 08:49 PM (#4701660)
I'm not bothered by the mound visits per se, but I don't like when the mound visits are a stalling tactic. Same for throws to first or the catcher coming in for a conference. I don't really know what to do about it.
\

Any time a coach or catcher or other player visits the mound w/o changing pitchers, the current pitcher must face the current batter to the conclusion of the plate appearance (barring injury). If it happens again in the same PA, the current pitcher must face the subsequent batter to the completion of his PA. Repeat as necessary.

Throw-overs count as balls (but not ball 4, similar to fouls and strikes). Which would obviously result in a lot more steals, but would also result in, I suspect, many more pickoffs.
   77. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 06, 2014 at 10:26 PM (#4701736)
Hilarious "k-zone" type thing that YES has, where they show the Gardner pitch being "caught" near the ground and put their yellow dot right near the ground where the catcher's glove ended up after Ianetta swatted down down at the ball.
   78. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: May 06, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4701776)

It does. I can remember a Cubs game from ~30 years ago - the manager (probably either Jim Frey or Don Zimmer) made a visit to the mound, then later in the inning called the first baseman over to the dugout and told him something. The 1B went to the mound to talk to the pitcher. Tommy Lasorda came out of the other dugout and protested that the pitcher needed to come out of the game because that counted as two visits, and the umps agreed.


Back then Lasorda was smarter than 0.1 dogs!
   79. Walt Davis Posted: May 07, 2014 at 02:32 AM (#4701831)
Back then Lasorda was smarter than 0.1 dogs!

Like a 10 dog vaudeville act, Tommy understand the rules! I recall another game where there was a pitch in the dirt, blocked by the C but he didn't know where it had gone. He ripped off his mask, looked around and it was just in front of him, slowly rolling in front of the plate. Nobody was going anywhere, C reached out and scooped the ball back to himself using his mask.

Out comes LaSorda, you're not allowed to use equipment other than your glove for controlling the ball. I think it was 2 bases for each of the runners.
   80. Tiboreau Posted: May 07, 2014 at 05:57 AM (#4701841)
What was the Doug Harvey method?
   81. Rob_Wood Posted: May 07, 2014 at 06:26 AM (#4701842)
I recall another game where there was a pitch in the dirt, blocked by the C but he didn't know where it had gone. He ripped off his mask, looked around and it was just in front of him, slowly rolling in front of the plate. Nobody was going anywhere, C reached out and scooped the ball back to himself using his mask.

Out comes LaSorda, you're not allowed to use equipment other than your glove for controlling the ball. I think it was 2 bases for each of the runners.


That was a favorite ploy by Gene Mauch.
   82. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 07, 2014 at 09:02 AM (#4701882)
What was the Doug Harvey method?


I'm not sure specifically what HW was referring to but Harvey was a long time NL ump who was known as "God" and as you might expect incredibly well respected. He was decidedly non-confrontational and I've seen him credited with the idea that the magic word for an ump is "you." His point (think I read it in one of Luciano's books) was that you could criticize the call but not the man who made the call.
   83. tfbg9 Posted: May 07, 2014 at 10:35 AM (#4701973)
Michael Jordan used to work refs by visibly appearing incensed, but by insisting, in a very agitated manner, things along the lines of "some people might argue that that was a very BORDERLINE CALL! VERY BORDERLINE! C'MON RICHIE! GIVE ME A BREAK!"

That sort of thing. Crowd would respond.

   84. Tiboreau Posted: May 07, 2014 at 09:04 PM (#4702641)
Thanks, Jose. I remember Harvey's nickname & reputation due his Hall of Fame candidacy, but vague about details like you mention, & to which Mr. Wallbanger alludes, since I wasn't aware of such things when he called balls & strikes.

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