Ballplayers cursing?

Holy sh*t!

I smell some new BTF catchphrases ...

.... you prick eating bastard.

:)

I'm partial to \"####-lapping dog", myself.

I think it's a hoax, myself. If not, then yes: BSET. 19TH-CENTURY. DOCUMENT. EVAR!!111!!!

You mean they had swears before Lastings started rapping?

Fabulous. But what's the problem with this auction house? Do kids typically participate in auctions?

I gotta say, hearing "I'll make you suck my ass" at a ballgame in the 19th century would've made my day.

I think making it to a ballgame in the 19th century at all would make my year. Maybe my life.

Dude, sweet.

Going fukkin' once... going fukkin' twice... SOLD, to the dog-lapping twatmunch in the third row!

"He likes to ply his seed in the other melon patch."

It's like they started a baseball league in Deadwood.

I'm sick and tired of people like Albert Belle and Lave Cross befouling our pastime with salty language.

I gotta say, hearing "I'll make you suck my ass" at a ballgame in the 19th century would've made my day.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I commend to everyone here a recent audio release from Archeophone Records, Actionable Offenses: Indecent Phonograph Recordings from the 1890s, essentially a collection of stag party wax cylinders. No fewer than five of George Carlin's "seven words you can never say on television" are on this album.

I am so Diety-cursed sick of this copulating excrement from these penis-vaccuming rectums!

I want Garrison Keillor to recite this document verbatim in Ken Burns' update of his Baseball documentary, while "Ashokean Farewell" plays mournfully in the background.

Were these words actually in use back then? I know from my Deadwood watching days that they said the writers "modernized" the language since most of the blue words that would have been used in the 1870's and on were not of the kind we generally use today. I guess I'll have to check out the phonographs to see if it is so.

How very interesting. You're a true vulgarian, aren't you?

Thanks 16. You've shortened my holiday shopping list.

I gotta say, hearing "I'll make you suck my ass" at a ballgame in the 19th century would've made my day.
You took the words right out of my mouth.

I bet that's not all he took out of your mouth.

(just getting into the spirit!)

Were these words actually in use back then?

Absolutely. Check out the memoir My Secret Life (from the 1880s and 90s) or the 1890s novel Teleny. It really isn't all that long ago in terms of the history of language.

what the hell is a gamahuche?

what the hell is a gamahuche?

Gamahuche says what?

I don't think this piece is a latter-day hoax like the Mickey Mantle questionnaire, but I suspect that it is an 1890s blue-humor item rather than an actual communication from a baseball league to its players. The lack of specifics about which league it was, and the kind of mock-innocent way that the piece spells out all the things that they are shocked that players would say, makes it look more like a satire than a policy document. But who knows -- stranger things have appeared in memos ...

Were these words actually in use back then?

In earlier times, more popular curse words included "smoo" and "flark."

an 1890s blue-humor item

Since we are already killjoys here/

I don't think this item dates back that far. The typeface and acidic paper remind me very much of the 1940's and 50's. Something printed on acidic paper 110 years ago, not professionally preserved, would have crumpled very badly by now.

In earlier times, more popular curse words included "smoo"

What's "smoo"?

-- Nothing much, what's smoo with you?

Yes, it's the New Shmoo, the incredible New Shmoo.

Is that even legal?

Also, "gamahuche" is a verb indicating oral sex. It comes up quite often in this book.

Something printed on acidic paper 110 years ago, not professionally preserved, would have crumpled very badly by now.

I bought a college newspaper from 1890 on eBay a few years back. It's kept in plastic, and it's in better condition than the item we're talking about.

"This shocking indecency was brought to the attention of the League at the Philadelphia meeting November, 1897"

FWIW, a quick check at Charlton's Baseball Chronology establishes that the National League did meet in Philadelphia in November 1897, and that rowdiness at games was discussed.

The lack of specifics about which league it was

This doesn't strike me as suspicious. There was only one major league in 1897-98; no one would be confused in the least as to which league was being referred to.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical here, but this isn't one.

I personally think it's hilarious whether it's legit, a spoof, or a hoax.

If this document illustrates anything, it's that we haven't evolved very far in our present-day use of profanity.

"I ###### your mother, your sister, your wife" is even more effective when they're all the same person.

This language has nothing on 1864 baseball.

"I ###### your mother, your sister, your wife" is even more effective when they're all the same person.

True, Louisville was in the NL in 1897.

There was only one major league in 1897-98; no one would be confused in the least as to which league was being referred to

True, but there were many minor leagues. I'd just have supposed that an official communique from a league office would have prominently displayed the name of the league. Though perhaps not on the same page as "a dog must have ####ed your mother," when you think of it.

Something printed on acidic paper 110 years ago, not professionally preserved, would have crumpled very badly by now.

I bought a college newspaper from 1890 on eBay a few years back. It's kept in plastic, and it's in better condition than the item we're talking about.

I've handled many such items from that period, and they don't always crumble by any means. Depends on the storage climate and exposure to oxygen. Infrequently looked at bound volumes of newspapers, of which I've seen many hundreds, almost never show much sign of deterioration, even after 100 years.

That said, I'm still a bit skeptical about this, though it's mostly intuitive. For instance, \"############." That doesn't show up in My Secret Life, even though \"####\" is used thousands of times. OTOH I've always thought that My Secret Life fell into the loose category of "gentlemen's pornography," and for that the m-f word may have been considered "too" vulgar.

But what the hell do we really know about what speech was like back then, other than what we get from books that were subject to strict censorship? This may be the real deal after all. And it's hard to imagine those old Orioles teams of Ned Hanlon having any self-imposed restraints at all.

And if it is, I doubt if it's of "little value," as Lifson seems to think it is. If that's real, it's an incredible find.

True, but there were many minor leagues. I'd just have supposed that an official communique from a league office would have prominently displayed the name of the league.

But there was no National Association; all the leagues were independent of one another. I suspect the National League was so hugely prominent that specifying its name would be superfluous.

That said, I'm still a bit skeptical about this, though it's mostly intuitive. For instance, "############." That doesn't show up in My Secret Life, even though "####" is used thousands of times. OTOH I've always thought that My Secret Life fell into the loose category of "gentlemen's pornography," and for that the m-f word may have been considered "too" vulgar.

Well, never mind that last paragraph. I read the text quickly and must have instinctively modernized the language. Now I'm more convinced than not that it's real.

BTW one of these days Randall Kennedy should write a book devoted entirely to the history of that 12-letter gem. It's arguably the most versatile and poetic word in the English language.

But what the hell do we really know about what speech was like back then, other than what we get from books that were subject to strict censorship? This may be the real deal after all.

I have a book of collected limericks that have plenty from that era (and earlier), and all of this language is abundantly there.

Whether it's an actual league document or a cunning parody, I'm 90% convinced it's from 1897. I hope it sells for a lot.

a cunning parody, eh? you cunning parodist!

BTW one of these days Randall Kennedy should write a book devoted entirely to the history of that 12-letter gem. It's arguably the most versatile and poetic word in the English language.

I don't know; its parent, "the F word," can in one form or another be a noun, verb, adverb, adjective, and of course expletive. There's probably some others I'm not thinking of. Maybe not as poetic, but certainly more versatile.

The paper looks a lot like hundreds of printed circulars I've read from the 1890s for my dissertation research. I am surprised at the thought that the obscenities would be reprinted in the documented. That doesn't make sense to me; I'd have to read other documents of the league to hazard a guess about whether they had a policy against euphemism or something. I've certainly read plenty of 1890s cuss words in letters, but very few in printed documents like this.

My other question is about its rarity. If it were printed to be distributed to all the players, it should have trickled down over the years through other sources. If there were 200 printed, even if half of them were immediately thrown away, and half of the remainder lost over time, and half of the remainder from that kept in a folder in a descendant's attic, that would still leave 25 copies, and if there were 25 copies around, or even 5, archivists and collectors would know about them. Maybe they do. But if they don't, then I'd doubt it's real. Think of how hard various historians have worked to uncover the history of 1890s baseball. What are the odds that none of them and none of the HOF archivists ever came across something like this, if, say, 25 were in existence (or even 5.)

True discoveries from that era tend to be individual documents. Diaries, letters. Those could easily be in an attic for generations and never known about.

If it were printed to be distributed to all the players, it should have trickled down over the years through other sources.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I interpreted it as printed and distributed to each team in the league, so 12 copies, not 200.

I agree there are lots of reasons to be suspicious, but there are also plenty of ways in which this passes muster ... perhaps the essence of a great hoax, if one's inclined to think conspiratorially ...

Is this even ####ing legal?

But what the hell do we really know about what speech was like back then, other than what we get from books that were subject to strict censorship? This may be the real deal after all.

I have a book of collected limericks that have plenty from that era (and earlier), and all of this language is abundantly there.

Steve, I was thinking less of the existence of specific words and more of in what contexts they were generally used. Obviously those same words are part of the common language today in the clubhouse, but we'd still be pretty surprised if all of a sudden we read about a player telling a "gentleman" spectator to "go f*ck yourself."

OTOH baseball was considered much more of a lower class game then than now, and there weren't any newspapers or networks to give us transcripts. Poor John Rocker: Born too late.

I only wish that this document had been known of when I still had my bookshop. It would have made for a big selling poster, though I guess I would have had to put a drape over it or something.

One final thing that makes me believe its authenticity: Robert Lifson (Robert Edward Auctions) is perhaps the most respected sports memorabilia auctioneer in the country. If he doesn't doubt this item's provenance, that's a pretty strong endorsement right there.

I interpreted it as printed and distributed to each team in the league, so 12 copies

No way they actually typeset to print this if they were only planning 12 copies. Memeograph or simple typing/handwriting will do.

Looking through the auction site I see they auctioned off Barry Halper's baseball film collection for $117,500. Wow. 167 reels of film from 1929 to 1981.

World Series Highlight Reels (46 total): 1) 1929 (32 mm, Movietone News). 2) 1937-1957 (ten years of highlights on one reel), 3) 1943. 4) 1944. 5) 1945. 6) 1946 (the outer case is inscribed "To Barry - a great fan - Stan Musial" in black marker, grading "5"). 7-8) 1947 (2 separate copies). 9-10) 1948 (two separate reels, one is silent, the outer case of the other film is inscribed "To Barry - Best of Luck - Bob Feller, grading "8"). 11-12) 1949 (2 separate copies). 13) 1950. 14) 1951 (the outer case is inscribed "To Barry - Kind Regards - Monte Irvin" in blue marker, grading "8"). 15) 1952. 16) 1953. 17) 1955. 18) 1956 (the outer case is inscribed "To Barry - Best Wishes - Johnny Kucks in blue marker, grading "7" and "Good Show - Bob Feller" in red marker, grading "7"). 19) 1957. 20) 1958. 21) 1959. 22) 1960. 23) 1961. 24) 1962. 25) 1963. 26-27) 1964 (two separate copies). 28) 1965. 29) 1966. 30-31) 1967 (two separate copies). 32) 1968. 33) 1969. 34) 1970. 35) 1971. 36) 1972. 37). 1973. 38) 1974. 39) 1975. 40) 1976. 41) 1977 (the outer case is inscribed "To Barry - Best Wishes - Paul Blair" in black marker, grading "5"). 42) 1978. 43) 1979. 44) 1980. 45) 1981. 46) 1982. Miscellaneous World Series Reels (4 total): 1) 1949 (w/other footage). 2) 1951 (Game 6). 3) 1952 (Game 4). 4) 1960 (Games 4 and 5). Team Highlight Reels (8 total): 1-2) Chicago Cubs 1938 (spring training) and 1939 (silent, spring training), 3-6) Milwaukee Braves 1956, 1958, 1959, and 1961. 7-8) Phillies 1950 and 1974/75. General Baseball Reels (29 total): The titles given here are the titles on either the canister and/or film. 1) 50 Years of Baseball. 2) 50 Years of Baseball Memories (the outer case is inscribed "A Great Show - Bob Feller" in red marker, grading "9"). 3) 1950s highlight reel. 4) 1953 Time Out for Sports with Marty Glickman (Whitey Lockman). 5) 1952 All-Star Game (35 mm). 6) 1953 Time Out for Sports with Marty Glickman (Joe DiMaggio). 7) 1967 Baseball Highlights. 8) 1978 All-Star Game. 9) A Star For All Diamonds. 10) Baseball (1938, silent, includes Cub/Yanks World Series highlights). 11) Baseball Greats. 12) Baseball Is Back (the outer case is inscribed "Great Show - Bob Feller" in red marker, grading "9"). 13) The Baseball Stars. 14) Big League Baseball (1939). 15) Clemente. 16) Connie Mack Show. 17) Democracy of Baseball. 18) Casey at the Mets. 19) Double Play Kings. 20) Home Run Heroes (1971). 21) Horsehide Heroes. 22) Lou Gehrig - King of Diamonds. 23) Right Handed Batters (1964 w/Mantle, Richardson Howard and other Yankees). 24) Say Hey (1954 plus the final games at Ebbets Field and the Polo Grounds). 25) Sports Thrills (silent, 1941 All-Star Game and World Series). 26) The Story of the Washington Nationals, 27) The Sultan of Swat (35 mm). 28) Take Me Out to the Ballgame. 29) Tools of Ignorance. Baseball Instructional Reels (2 total): 1) Batting and Bunting (Sports Training Film Series sponsored by Coca Cola). 2) Infield Play At First & Third (1949, w/Gil Hodges, George Kell and Ferris Fain). Gillette Television Shorts (57 total): These are small reels in 3.75-inch diameter canisters that feature player interviews done on television during the 1950s and 1960s. Listed are the years represented and the player(s) featured on each individual reel. 1947: Hank Aaron, 1953: Simmons/Bauer, Durocher/Mays. 1954: Willie Mays (2), Leja/Ford, Piersall/Crandall, Bob Grim, George Kell, Al Hefer, Del Crandall, Ashburn/Erskine, Leo Durocher. 1955: Lou Boudreau, Al Rosen, Hodges, Coleman, Kell/Pierce/Fox, Ken Boyer, Bob Turley, Don Zimmer, Marty Marion, Duke Snider, Pee Wee Reese. 1956: Campanella/Newcombe, Jackie Jensen, Jimmy Piersall, Casey Stengel, Whitey Ford, Dick Pierce. 1957: Early Wynn, Casey Stengel. 1958: Skowron. 1960: Jim Landis, Elston Howard, Duke Snider, Willie Mays, Don Blasingame, Bill Rigne. 1961: Ralph Houk, Bobby Richardson. 1962: Don Drysdale, Brooks Robinson, Bill Mazeroski, Maury Wills, Dick Radiz, Wally Moon, Woody Held, Ken McBrid. Unknown Years: Luis Aparicio, Wally Moon, Hank Bauer, Rich Ashburn, Ted Kluszewski, Casey Stengel, Red Schoendienst, Pee Wee Reese. General Sports Highlight Reels (7 total): 1) The Big Play Back (includes the '39 Kentucky Derby, Sammy Snead 1954, Masters w/Ben Hogan). 2) Greatest Moments in Sports. 3) Sports Immortals w/Mel Allen, 4) Swiss Sports (1935, St. Moritz). 5) Tele Sports Digest (1953). 6-7) Tele Sports Digest (two separate reels, years unknown). Miscellaneous Baseball Films (11 total): A number of the films in this collection are not titled and only offer a few identifying notations. We have described these films here as they are described on the canister. 1-2) Two small reels that are labeled "Babe Ruth - Sweden." One is further labeled "Babe Ruth and Family - Ruth in Switzerland -Babe on Ice." 3) Lou Gehrig's Farewell. 4) Rizzuto 5) 1951 (Kuzava/Morgan/Lopat and one other (name illegible). 6) Yankees. 7) World Series. 8) Phillies Clinch Pennant. 9-11) Three films that appear to offer a number of highlights from various eras. Unidentified (3 total): Three reels are unidentified in any manner. From the Barry Halper Collection

Somebody bought a Tommy Thevenow baseball card for $9,860!

No way they actually typeset to print this if they were only planning 12 copies. Memeograph or simple typing/handwriting will do

Nicholas Efram Young, making copies. The Young-ster. The Ef-Meister. Nicky the Ditto. At the copy machine. Efram Simple-List Junior. Making copies. Jowly old St. Nick. The Nickster.

I didn't know Dick Cheney played baseball.

I have a book of collected limericks that have plenty from that era (and earlier), and all of this language is abundantly there.

There once was a man named Cy Young;
A horse, and accordingly hung.
He shouted "prick lover"
In earshot of Mother
With advice on the use of her tongue.

There once was a man, Nap Lajoie,
Who possessed an X-rated patois.
With a deftness in French
He would shout from the bench
And the cranks all heard, "suckez-vous moi."

Radbourne, who went by "Old Hoss"
Into children his #### he would toss.
Nonetheless, he asserted
he wasn't perverted.
"I just like, when in bed, to be Boss".

I'm waiting for the Jack Glasscock and Charles Tebeau limericks.

Johnny Montgomery Ward
Could poke any lass with his sword.
But rather was "doing"
his teammate Buck Ewing,
No wonder those dames were ignored.

Adrian Constantine Anson
Trying to put some romance on
Accosted Tim Keefe
Who replied, in brief,
"Dear Captain, please put some pants on!"

I am surprised at the thought that the obscenities would be reprinted in the document. That doesn't make sense to me.

How about now?

There once was a man named Comiskey
Who was feeling a mighty bit frisky
He said, "I crave ####
When we reach twelve o'clock,
And by dawn I can just blame the whiskey!"

I once said to Galvin, "Dear Pud,
Your name seems to drag through the mud.
Is it due to your schlong
Being ever so long?"
He said, "No sir, in truth, it's a dud."

I love you guys.

Let's speak now of ol' Bid McPhee
who liked to watch other men pee.
Said he, "Elmer Flick
has a hell of a dick,
but poor Willie Keeler's so wee!"

Everyone's limericking skills here are delightful. The real-life period examples (I just tried to locate the book, but it appears to have been packed away; lord do my wife and I own thousands of books) are quite a bit in this vein, though erring less on the artsy side and more on the, shall we say, earthy.

BTF: The only place on the internet to get your fresh Pud Galvin dirty limericks!

I heard from ol' Delahanty,
after a glass of chianti,
"I breathe through my eyes
'n feel lace on my thighs
now that I wear Annie's panties."

Poor little Abner Dalrymple
Said, "My love life is really quite simple.
The ladies need more,
Like the #### on George Gore,
But they laugh at my overgrown pimple."

Said randy righthander Kid Nichols,
"I've landed in one of my pickles.
The wife of Tom Tucker,
I sure love to #### her,
But her #### is so hairy, it tickles!"

There was a baseballer named Joe
Whose night life was just a bit slow
He wanted some more
So he called for a whore
But they sent him ##### Tebeau!

It doesn't even look real.
the typed text doesn't coincide with the creases in the paper.

The Thunderbolt was Amos Rusie
His "bolt" made the ladies all goosey
He said "I got wise
To the ways of their thighs.
The Thunder, it makes them move loosely."

A crank with an innocent face
Caught ballplayers by flashing her lace
"You may think me quite mad
But four I have had
And one more will make me an ace!"

A Yankee first baseman named Chase
Had smallpox all over his face
But his pecker was clean
I don't mean to be mean
His behavior was quite a disgrace

There once was a New York third baseman
With a talent for self-effacement
Hooker said how much
Answer came let's go Dutch
'Cause my #### is on loan to my agent

One day a fine pitcher named Matty
Discovered he drove the girls batty
He climbed on and off 'em
All thoughout Gotham
Except for the ones he called "fatty"

Rube was a huge star in New York
And no-one could call him a dork
Bring more showgirls for him
And not just on a whim
It was Blossom that he loved to pork

Oh lord, once the limerick people start, they never stop.

A manager, name of McGraw
Got for each of his players, a whore
But Merkle, he reckoned
Never made it past second
For he failed to touch it once more

A slugging first baseman named Connor
Asked a young girl for her honor
To Rog's delight
Through all that sweet night
He was on 'er and off 'er and on 'er.

Young Hamilton, called "Sliding Billy"
Got himself in a bit of a dilly
His girl ran away
So Bill had to play
On his lonesome and slid himself silly.

A brilliant flycatcher named Snodgrass
One day spied a girl with a fine ass
"I'm known for my muff
And if that's not enough
I can muff-dive while chanting a black Mass"

A shortstop who did little wrong
Had a truly spectacular schlong
The girls screamed in delight
All day and all night
There's a reason he's called Herman Long

A floozy who just loved to dance
And take off her dress and her pants
In the course of a year
Over many a beer
Went from Tinker to Evers to Chance

No baseball Annie was keener
For many a ballplayer's wiener
But she took one look
At the teeth that were buck
And said "I will not #### Joe Martina"

One day Bid was asked from above
Not to spill his speed in his love
"I'm sorry my dear
If you might think it's queer
For I never do wear a glove"

A floozy who just loved to dance
And take off her dress and her pants
In the course of a year
Over many a beer
Went from Tinker to Evers to Chance

Everyone can stop right now because I believe this is the winner.

A Giants outfielder named Beals
Had a fetish for women in heels
He said, "My name is Becker
Come sit on my pecker
And I'll tell you how good it feels"

Sorry - got a bit carried away there...

Wilbert Robinson liked it on top
When a rookie's young anus he'd pop.
T'was a tight fit with Hughie,
Whose cheeks were soon gooey
And dripping with Baltimore glop.

Delahanty did much more than pet.
He blew like a bass clarinet.
While searching for stray balls
The horndog went AWOL.
(He liked to go down and get wet.)

what the hell is a gamahuche?

Third base.

I was going to do one for Candy Cummings but I couldn't get it dirty enough and I couldn't get the last line to work.

There once was a man name Candy Cummings
He would twirl his balls ever so funny
If a batter leaned in
he'd take it on the chin
. . . . .

There once was a man name Candy Cummings
He would twirl his balls ever so funny
If a batter leaned in
he'd take it on the chin

Bukkake is ever so runny.

It doesn't even look real.
the typed text doesn't coincide with the creases in the paper.

I hate to keep changing my mind about this, but you're right. The only "legitimate" explanation is that the letters in the version we're seeing have been digitally restored for clarity, and that the "real" copy retains the flaws.

For example, if you look in particular at the lettering along the middle crease, you'll see that something ain't quite kosher. I make a living doing "corrections" like this to the covers of college football programs in order to sell them as "first off the press" reproduction posters, and even though this document retains the creases, there's no way that the type below those creases would look so uniformly clean if they hadn't been "fixed." Someone should definitely point this out to Lifson, though I can't imagine that it wouldn't have occurred to him already.

All this said, why no limerick in honor of the late, great Rusty Peters?

BTW I just wrote Robert Edwards auctions about the point that Gambling Rent raised. I'll be interested to see his reply. As I said earlier, his reputation is the best in the memorabilia business.

And still no love for Rusty. Sigh.

Brouthers, from Wappingers Falls
Was blessed with two marvelous balls
Not wrinked and grey
As you started to say
It was merely the umpire's calls.

The ladies admired young Tyrus,
whose boudoir exertions inspire us.
So many ###### Cobb
that if you touch his knob
you'll undoubtedly leave with a virus.

Two baserunners, Kelly and Brouthers,
Were faster by far than the others.
Why the cranks asked them why,
They were heard to reply
That a greyhound had covered their mothers.

There was a young retard named Rube
Who liked cockmeat better than boobs.
Nearby fire engines
Created some tension
But that could be eased with some lube.