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Wednesday, February 23, 2005

Canoe: Larry Walker knows end is near

Larry Walker retiring?...It’s a ploy, Mrs. Walker, it’s a ploy.

I’ve said it before but I’d have to be like the Pinball Wizard—deaf, dumb and blind—not to realize what a great situation I’m in, playing in St. Louis.

I know retirement lies around the corner. I’m going to play this year and see what happens

Repoz Posted: February 23, 2005 at 05:25 PM | 116 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Bob T Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:06 PM (#1161399)

Do you think it's all right to trade him to the Yankees for Uncle Bernie?

2. Cabbage Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:15 PM (#1161413)

The end is near....

....The end of High Prices!

3. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:19 PM (#1161419)

How do you think he does it? What makes him so good?

4. salvomania Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:20 PM (#1161423)

St. Louis is a pretty quiet town, so he doesn't have many distactions...

5. Toolsy McClutch Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:22 PM (#1161428)

I voted to take back Vince in a heartbeat. My fellow T. fans are both fickle, and stupid. Fickid I suppose.

6. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:23 PM (#1161431)

He must be able to smell the mud on the ball.

7. salvomania Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:29 PM (#1161446)

Don't forget the way he grips the bat with his crazy flipper fingers.

8. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:32 PM (#1161457)

He's got such a supple wrist.

9. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:32 PM (#1161458)

They're always talking about what a great baserunner he is...and in truth, I've never seen him fall.

10. CraigK Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:43 PM (#1161484)

Oh, come on; he's in St. Louis, and he's in reasonable health.

He'll play till he's 50.

11. Repoz

Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:44 PM (#1161487)

Walker's stats will go down since he left the high numbers in Colorado...

12. Repoz

Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:52 PM (#1161500)

and what's up with Walker finding that body at towns end?

13. salvomania Posted: February 23, 2005 at 06:52 PM (#1161501)

Maybe, but perhaps he'll find the fontana of youth in St. Louis..

14. rdhdstepchild Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:20 PM (#1161546)

ahhh yes but who will replace the high numbers...?

15. GGC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:31 PM (#1161562)

THis is just an eminence front; it's a put-on.

16. hogfatsmurf Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:44 PM (#1161598)

I wish I knew, I wish I knew.

17. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:53 PM (#1161616)

How do you think he does it? What makes him so good?

I can't explain.

18. sopclod Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:54 PM (#1161619)

Is Walker a hall of famer? He had one truly great season, 3 or 4 very good ones, and a whole bunch of injuries. His rate stats are good though: 76th all time in BA, 55th in OBP, and 15th in SLG.

19. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:56 PM (#1161624)

There's either some bizarre running joke through this thread I'm missing or its just a plain old bizarre thread

20. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 23, 2005 at 07:59 PM (#1161631)

RB in the UK - who are you? I really want to know. so tell me who are you? (who who, who who)

21. Flynn Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:01 PM (#1161637)

Are you guys stoned?

22. DCW3 Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:01 PM (#1161640)

RB, I didn't know what was going on at first either, but now that I've figured it out, I won't get fooled again.

23. rdhdstepchild Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:05 PM (#1161653)

Larry Walker, Hall of Famer?
Or Larry Walker, too many injuries?

Tell me who the f--- are you?

24. dlf Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:06 PM (#1161654)

Well Tony L likes to play that squeeze box all night long.

25. A triple short of the cycle

Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:08 PM (#1161665)

Larry's wife may end up spending all his money, but he'll still be alive

26. GGC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:09 PM (#1161667)

Are you guys stoned?

Hey you smoking Mother Nature, this is a bust.

27. Walt Davis Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:10 PM (#1161670)

Is his agent Boras the Spider? If so, I don't foresee an early retirement.

28. sopclod Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:11 PM (#1161673)

I tried to get a real conversation going, but it ain't happenin'

29. GGC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:12 PM (#1161675)

RDF, Walt.

30. Guapo Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:13 PM (#1161678)

I know retirement lies around the corner. I’m going to play this year and see what happens

Hopefully, he'll die before he gets old.

31. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:14 PM (#1161682)

There's either some bizarre running joke through this thread I'm missing or its just a plain old bizarre thread

He's asked Bobby Dylan, he's asked the Beatles. He's asked Timothy Leary, but he couldn't help him either.

He'll keep searching low and high.

32. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:17 PM (#1161685)

He's not trying to cause a sensation, he's just talking about hi-hi-his possible talent degeneration.

33. Guapo Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:17 PM (#1161687)

Left unexplained are exactly what he's been doing with the pictures of Ted Lilly in his locker.

34. Kirby Kyle Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:18 PM (#1161689)

Why doesn't he just f-f-f-fade away?

35. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:18 PM (#1161691)

If his injuries continue, it'll be some more summertime blues.

36. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:21 PM (#1161700)

I got it, thanks all. By the way, best clue goes to DCW3_

37. DCW3 Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:22 PM (#1161701)

I still can't believe the Cardinals got a guy who put up a 152 OPS+ last year for a couple minor leaguers--and got the Rockies to pick up 9 million bucks. I'd call that a bargain...if not the best they've ever had.

38. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:24 PM (#1161703)

He looks alright, but his groin was wack.

39. Cabbage Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:25 PM (#1161708)

His rate stats are good though: 76th all time in BA, 55th in OBP, and 15th in SLG.

The problem is of course that he spent so much time in a park where every hit seems to go for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles.

40. Tracy Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:28 PM (#1161714)

Walker hopes the Cardinals get it together before they get much older.

41. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:30 PM (#1161716)

Walker knows end is near

The song is over?

42. VG Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:30 PM (#1161717)

Walker's glad that the Cardinals train in Florida. If he were in Tucson with the Rockies, there would be all kinds of rain o'er him.

43. Walt Davis Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:32 PM (#1161723)

Walker's not going to make the HOF, barring a miracle of modern medicine.

Not including Cs and with the glaring exception of Kirby Puckett and his career-ending injury, the writers haven't elected a position player with fewer than 2,360 gp (Stargell) since Snider (2,143) in 1980.

Larry Walker has 1,888 games. Even "short career" Ron Santo had 2,243. Walker needs at least 300 more games and probably 500 more games to get in. If by some miracle he does that without killing his rate stats, it will depend on whether the writers over-correct for Coors.

Right now his OPS+ and gp puts him in the same area as Reggie Smith, Jack Clark, Norm Cash, Frank Howard, and others in the Hall of the Ouststanding but not for Enough Games (the HOONEG is next door to the Hall of the Very Good).

There's also the "eww" factor. If Walker gets in, there's little reason to keep Will Clark out.

44. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:34 PM (#1161728)

Walker's not going to make the HOF, barring a miracle of modern medicine.

No machine can give him the kind of stimulation.

45. Von Hayes Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:36 PM (#1161733)

With all the Coors inflation in Walker's stats, can you see the real me? Can ya?

46. Adam B. Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:39 PM (#1161739)

If the rumors floating in Peter Gammons' head all turn to facts, close your eyes and think of this.

47. Matt Welch Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:41 PM (#1161742)

Is he a Hall of Famer? Not even a substitute for another guy.

Here's his career expressed in Win Shares, best season to worst, compared to those of never-gonna-be-HoFers Rusty Staub, Jack Clark & Ken Singleton:
LW 32/30/26/26/24/25/24/20/20/18/17/13/12/11/10
RS 32/30/28/28/27/26/25/23/18/17/16/13/12/12/12/10/9/8/5/4/3/2/1
JC: 33/31/30/26/24/23/22/22/21/20/17/15/12/11/9/4/3
KS 36/33/32/28/28/27/24/23/19/17/16/12/11/5

48. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: February 23, 2005 at 08:59 PM (#1161781)

He'll take on anyone
Aint scared of broken bones
Mangled and scarred-up
With one eye in his clothes

What is it?
He'll break it
Who is he?
He'll crash them
Got a limb there
He snapped it
Gettin high
Stats inflated

Dr. Larry in the rehab gym
When he's in Coors, you dont notice him.
He only comes out in Busch Stadium.

(with apologies to the best Who song ever)

49. Traderdave

Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:02 PM (#1161789)

Coors is a place
Where a man can feel
He's the only swing in the world that's real

50. Guapo Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:08 PM (#1161812)

Walker needs at least 300 more games and probably 500 more games to get in.

I'd say he needs at least 515.

51. Traderdave

Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:09 PM (#1161813)

Primey for the entire thread.

52. GGC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:12 PM (#1161817)

Primey for the entire thread.

Agreed, if only Sister Disco or somebody can remember this one for a year.

53. CrosbyBird Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:16 PM (#1161833)

Larry doesn't need to fight
To prove he's right
He doesn't need to be forgiven.

54. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:17 PM (#1161838)

It was certainly a quick one.

55. Matt Welch Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:19 PM (#1161844)

Walker's had two season with more than 26 Win Shares (adjusting to 162 games for strike years). Here's how many 27+ seasons other right fielders have had:

7 Sheffield
6 Singleton
5 Sosa
5 Pedro Guerrero
5 Vlad
5 Staub
4 Parker
4 Bonds
4 Oliva
3 Dawson
3 Murcer
3 Evans
3 Clark
3 Reggie Smith

Who else has just 2? Jose Canseco & Daryl Strawberry. Proving once again that in life, one and one don't make two, one and one make none.

56. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:22 PM (#1161851)

Jeez, Matt, let it go.

I mean, win shares....they're only freaking win shares.

57. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:24 PM (#1161857)

His swing is so pure and easy.

58. Imperabo Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:26 PM (#1161864)

There's also the "eww" factor. If Walker gets in, there's little reason to keep Will Clark out.

Good call on that. I didn't realize Clark had a 138 career OPS+.

59. GGC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:27 PM (#1161866)

I'll always remember one happy (tall) jack he hit that Baba Trammell almost caught at the fence.

60. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:43 PM (#1161887)

Canoe: Larry Walker knows end is near

Imagine a soul
So old it it is broken
And you will know your invention is you

And you will see the end
You will see the end

61. Matt Welch Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:57 PM (#1161920)

PH -- They're also a useful way to cut through the noise of Coors Field and the offensive boom of the last 10 years while addressing an HoF candidacy.

62. rdhdstepchild Posted: February 23, 2005 at 09:59 PM (#1161924)

OK- enough about Walker- Who's next?

63. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:01 PM (#1161932)

I think he should keep playing. He could make some book of records.

64. NJ in NY (Now with Baby!) Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:03 PM (#1161934)

Ok, I don't get it. Someone explain.

65. Sean McNally Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:12 PM (#1161950)

Its about 15-20 years before your time Fabian...

66. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:32 PM (#1161996)

Its about 15-20 years before your time Fabian

He became aware this year ...

67. Urban Faber Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:40 PM (#1162011)

Here's a little bit of background

68. Guapo Posted: February 23, 2005 at 10:41 PM (#1162015)

Ok, I don't get it. Someone explain.

Got a feeling inside...

69. TOLAXOR Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:04 PM (#1162046)

IT'S OK, LARRY:

When everything feels all over
Everybody seems unkind
I'll give you a four-leaf clover
Take all worry out of your mind

Let my love open the door
Let my love open the door
Let my love open the door
To your heart

(Let my love open the door, whoo)

70. Tom (and his broom) Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:06 PM (#1162047)

Ok, I don't get it. Someone explain.

We're just talking about my generation (and Walkers).

71. MKT Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:10 PM (#1162053)

Let the old guy retire. The kids are all right.

72. Tom (and his broom) Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:14 PM (#1162058)

The kids are all right.

At least St. Louis has some kids. In SF the farm system is a teenage wasteland.

73. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:15 PM (#1162059)

Let the old guy retire. The kids are all right.

I'd want Walker on my lineup card anyway, anyhow, anywhere.

74. JC in DC Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:33 PM (#1162081)

Why should I care? Why should I care?

75. scotto Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:40 PM (#1162092)

I don't mind if Larry Walker's dancing with my girl.

76. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:41 PM (#1162095)

I'm going to really regret this, but TOLAXOR upped the ante...

I call Walt on the telephone my voice too rough with bandages.
I sometimes thing I should just go home but #### that igloo in the Cascade Ranges
I love to hear Walt say my name especially when he says yes
I got my body right now on my mind and I've drunk myself blind knowing I'm petrified like an old T-Rex

An old T-Rex

When I say I'm healthy you say you better
You better you better you bet
When I say I'm playing you say you better
You better you better you bet
You better bet your life
Or our trainer will cut you like a knife

I want those feeble hitting Mabrys overthrown
I'm not into my wheelchairs and crutches, but I've used plenty of those
St Louis welcomes me with open arms and open legs
I know only the over-paid can beg epecially if they limp on a peg.

I don't really mind how much you love me
A little is really alright
When you say come over and spend a postseason and fortnight.
That's about right.

When I say I'm healthy you say you better
You better you better you bet
When I say I'm playing you say you better
You better you better you bet
You better bet your life
Or our trainer will cut you like a knife

I lay on the trainer's table
We could make some insurers faint now
These fans keep licking my nose
Walt's chewing up all those letters
Saying "you better"
You better bet your life

You better play, all the time now
You better get back into the line up
You better play, all the time now
You better get back into the line up

I showed up late one night with a doctor's excuse for a visa
But knowing I'm so easy to break can't make playing me in any easier
I know that I been wearing a purple uniform and I look pretty crappy
Sometimes
But my body feels so good and I still hit a razor line drive everytime.

And when it comes to season-long playing
I know what I'm giving
I'll be damned if I do it, see
Much less for free.

When I say I'm healthy you say you better
You better you better you bet
When I say I'm playing you say you better
You better you better you bet
You better bet your life
Or our trainer will cut you like a knife

***

With apologies to the second-greatest Who song ever, which would be the first but Kenny Jones sucks.

I like Larry Walker. Just kidding, dude.

"Rough Boys" is next. I dont think I want to go there.

77. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:44 PM (#1162099)

thing=think. damn

78. Eric L Posted: February 24, 2005 at 12:05 AM (#1162129)

God, I'm an obsessive WHO fan, and late to this thread...shucks

I won't even try to add my bit, but thanks for the laughs guys

I'll second, PRIMEY FOR THE WHOLE THREAD!

79. JC in DC Posted: February 24, 2005 at 12:36 AM (#1162174)

I love that song, too, RETARDO, but second best? No way. The Union may collapse over that blasphemy.

80. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 24, 2005 at 12:53 AM (#1162186)

There's also the "eww" factor. If Walker gets in, there's little reason to keep Will Clark out.

He's better, he's better - you bet.

Still - out there on the field, Larry fights for his meals, he puts his back into his hitting*. He don't need to fight to prove a vote for him would be right. He don't need to be Vet Committee'd.

81. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: February 24, 2005 at 01:02 AM (#1162207)

Are you guys stoned?

Don't try to dig what we all say.

82. Booey Posted: February 24, 2005 at 01:23 AM (#1162243)

I'm guess I'm just not old enough to understand most of the references in this thread, but then again, I don't feel too bad cause I'm still young and hot. ;)

Oh yeah, Larry Walker. Best of luck, Larry. I'll be rootin' for ya. He's not a HOFer, but he's been lots of fun to watch.

83. asinwreck Posted: February 24, 2005 at 01:47 AM (#1162279)

He's the good face, baby, is that clear?

84. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: February 24, 2005 at 02:34 AM (#1162340)

I'm guess I'm just not old enough to understand most of the references in this thread, but then again, I don't feel too bad cause I'm still young and hot.

I look pretty young, but I'm just back-dated.

85. Pitching Prospect Posted: February 24, 2005 at 06:02 AM (#1162825)

I tend to hate Larry Walker because he never smiles.

86. NTNgod Posted: February 24, 2005 at 06:07 AM (#1162837)

which would be the first but Kenny Jones sucks.

Kenny Jones was the drummer for the Faces, thus he cannot suck.

He's no Keith Moon, of course.

87. Pitching Prospect Posted: February 24, 2005 at 06:08 AM (#1162840)

American woman, stay away from Larry Walker. Oh wait ... never mind.

88. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 24, 2005 at 07:23 AM (#1163012)

I’ve said it before but I’d have to be like the Pinball Wizard—deaf, dumb and blind—not to realize what a great situation I’m in, playing in St. Louis.

Not to be anal retentive, but it wasn't the Pinball Wizard who was deaf, dumb, and blind, it was Tommy, who beat the Pinball Wizard, who was deaf, dumb, and blind...

89. Phil Coorey. Posted: February 24, 2005 at 09:21 AM (#1163109)

God, I'm an obsessive WHO fan, and late to this thread...shucks

I won't even try to add my bit, but thanks for the laughs guys

I'll second, PRIMEY FOR THE WHOLE THREAD!

What are great thread, I would not have seen this, if not for Wiki.

I agree, pissed off I missed it, primey for the lot.

90. Steve G. Posted: February 24, 2005 at 04:11 PM (#1163352)

Is he a Hall of Famer? Not even a substitute for another guy.

Here's his career expressed in Win Shares, best season to worst, compared to those of never-gonna-be-HoFers Rusty Staub, Jack Clark & Ken Singleton:

LW 32/30/26/26/24/25/24/20/20/18/17/13/12/11/10
RS 32/30/28/28/27/26/25/23/18/17/16/13/12/12/12/10/9/8/5/4/3/2/1
JC: 33/31/30/26/24/23/22/22/21/20/17/15/12/11/9/4/3
KS 36/33/32/28/28/27/24/23/19/17/16/12/11/5

Just curious - are these pro-rated out to 162 games? I noticed that you did that for a comparison on Jeff Kent in the MLB Depo Chat thread, but you didn't mention it here.

91. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: February 24, 2005 at 05:36 PM (#1163522)

Charlie Lau: Inside-outside!
Larry Walker: Leave me alone.

92. Matt Welch Posted: February 25, 2005 at 12:02 AM (#1164238)

Man-in-Blak -- Yessir, it is. Though I did it (mostly) from the rounded-off totals in the Win Shares book, instead of the raw decimal-point stuff. At some point I'm going to use maybe the Hardball Times' version of WS to pro-rate 162-game seasons back to 1901.

93. GGC Posted: February 25, 2005 at 02:21 AM (#1164508)

The thread is over.
It's all behind me.
I should have known it.
She tried to find me.

Our love is over.
They're all ahead now.
I've got to learn it.
I'm gonna sing out.

I'll post my thread to the wide cyberspaces.
I'll post my heart out to the infinite sea.
I said goodbye to the sky high mountains.
St. Louis paid a song to me.
I was free.

94. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: February 25, 2005 at 02:49 AM (#1164550)

I love that song, too, RETARDO, but second best? No way. The Union may collapse over that blasphemy."

Sorry, JC. Objectively, it's probably not in the top five of Who songs. But I'm a product of my age, and standards like Baba O'Reilly and Won't Get Fooled Again I've heard so many times that I don't care to ever hear them again.

You Better You Bet, on the other hand, was late enough that I "found" it on my own as a kid; it wasn't the Who that my mom listened to. So it has sentimentality going for it. Quadrophenia is neither fish nor fowl; something that has some overworn (but not overworn to the same degree as the Who's Next staples) songs but is still such a huge and diverse album that I can still listen to it and appreciate its awesomeness. But I didnt grow up with it; I found it as a teenager, not as a child.

whoever complained baout my Kenny Jones slagging: sorry. But Jones's drumming with the Who was completely uninspired. I realise he was probably going out of his way NOT to be upfront like Moon, but still. Yuck.

95. Urban Faber Posted: February 25, 2005 at 02:57 AM (#1164561)

This thread can't end. I want it, I want it, I want it I want it I want it

96. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 24, 2005 at 03:06 PM (#1283725)

Count me in as a huge Who fan. I have every album that they ever made.

Best Album: Who's Next
Best Song: I have always been partial to Squeeze Box, but I don't really have a true favorite. There are so many that are great.

People try to put him down
Just because he can't get around
Playing to 40 he put on hold
Larry knows he's getting old

It's his generation
It's his generation (creaky)

Yeah, I've resuscitated this thread. So what of it? Blame it on BTF Wiki. :-)

97. fables of the deconstruction Posted: April 24, 2005 at 06:37 PM (#1284276)

Yeah, I've resuscitated this thread. So what of it? Blame it on BTF Wiki. :-)

John,

Who died and left you boss...? ;-) ...
'Thanks for survival and bringing about a (classic) revival.
I missed its original arrival and the ensuing karnival.'

Not the Who but not bad.

Alert the Primey media... ;-) :-) ...

-----------
trevise :-) ...

98. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 24, 2005 at 06:46 PM (#1284323)

Not the Who but not bad.

The boss (that's me) was pleased, nevertheless. :-D

99. penguinmobile Posted: April 24, 2005 at 06:52 PM (#1284363)

I missed this thread until now and I have to say that it looks fine to the naked eye, but given the current steroid scandals I can't help but wonder if even after he cleans his room and his shoes his mother will find a box of blues. Of course, that's a legal matter. On the other hand, from the fan's perspective he can go anywhere, anyhow, anyway because no one knows what it's like. He's crazy if he thinks I'm coming back again. He's crazy anyway.

What's for tea, mum?

100. fables of the deconstruction Posted: April 24, 2005 at 07:10 PM (#1284449)

The boss (that's me) was pleased, nevertheless. :-D

That's good...

Time to make the flip from a mystery ship. ;-) ...

BANG

-----------
trevise :-) ...

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Canoe: Larry Walker knows end is near

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