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Tuesday, September 25, 2018

Carlos Santana at third base in 2019? He’d be open to it | NBC Sports Philadelphia

Maybe they should cut their losses and trade him (at a discount).

Recently, Kapler has used Santana at third as a way to improve the Phillies’ outfield defense. With Santana at third, Rhys Hoskins can move from left field to his natural first base and Kapler can use a stronger defender in left. On Monday night, he used an outfield of Roman Quinn in center, Odubel Herrera in right and Aaron Altherr in left. It was all about covering the vast green that is the Coors Field outfield.

Jim Furtado Posted: September 25, 2018 at 11:24 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies

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   1. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: September 25, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5751346)
Heh. Jeff Sullivan just wrote his piece on the 2018 Phils having the worst DRS in history, so this might not help. I like Santana as a player, but that deal just never made sense given that Hoskins is the best hitter the franchise has by far...and can only play 1B.
   2. Rally Posted: September 25, 2018 at 11:58 AM (#5751354)
Moving a 30+ age first baseman to third. Not exactly at the top of the list of solutions to improve a defense. But in this case, it couldn't hurt.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: September 25, 2018 at 12:01 PM (#5751358)
Excellent idea. Love it.
   4. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 25, 2018 at 12:10 PM (#5751365)
Rockies got 13 hits and 10 runs against that defense, so the early returns are not good.
   5. Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee) Posted: September 25, 2018 at 12:13 PM (#5751370)
This was a catastrophically bad idea when Cleveland tried it. He couldn't play the position and he hit .129/.283/.226, albeit in a smallish sample size.

If the Phils give it another shot, I hope it works for them. But this seems insane.
   6. TomH Posted: September 25, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5751450)
I am open to playing 3rd in 2019 also. 57 yrs old, torn ACL, can't hit a fastball above 70 mph, never saw a good curve. But I'm open to it, for the MLB minimum.
   7. jmurph Posted: September 25, 2018 at 01:57 PM (#5751576)
Moving a 30+ age first baseman to third. Not exactly at the top of the list of solutions to improve a defense. But in this case, it couldn't hurt.

If the Phils give it another shot, I hope it works for them. But this seems insane.

Tobias: You know, Lindsay, as a therapist, I have advised a number of couples to explore an open relationship where the couple remains emotionally committed, but free to explore extra-marital encounters.
Lindsay: Well, did it work for those people?
Tobias: No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might, but ... But it might work for us.
   8. wjones Posted: September 25, 2018 at 02:43 PM (#5751641)
To make it even worse, during one of the Braves games this weekend (maybe more than one) they employed a shift that put Santana in the shortstop slot. I was so grateful when a fairly routine grounder bounced off him into left field.
   9. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 25, 2018 at 02:57 PM (#5751654)
Where have these guys been? Santana has already started 10 games at 3B this month. The best lineups were with him at 3B AND Hoskins in LF, like this game, possibly the worst defensive lineup of all time. Hey, there was only one error! Committed by a pitcher.

Rockies got 13 hits and 10 runs against that defense, so the early returns are not good.

Roman Quinn made a really good catch though!
   10. PreservedFish Posted: September 25, 2018 at 04:21 PM (#5751769)
#9 - Wow, that is truly an extraordinary lineup. Asdrubal Cabrera and Jose Bautista make it even better.
   11. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 25, 2018 at 04:36 PM (#5751779)
Ah, the brief era when we thought we might get to the playoffs so we were trying to squeeze in playing time for Playoff DH Justin Bour.
   12. Walt Davis Posted: September 25, 2018 at 06:07 PM (#5751848)
The Phils have made something of a point of punting defense all season, starting with the odd signing of Santana forcing the Hoskins move. Acquiring Cabrera for SS was a deft maneuver too. Such a strategy might make sense if you were doing it to smash the ball but they're 11th in RS and round there in most important components ... and even just 6th in HR. They've only got 3 guys posting an OPS+ over 100 -- Hoskins (a 1B), Santana (a 1B) and Fraco (the lousy-fielding 3B Santana is proposing to replace). So this move would actually hurt their offense a little.

Hey, the Nats are over 500 and moved into 2nd.

Can Jay Bruce still play a competent corner OF? Maybe Santana for Bruce would work, money's about the same I think.
   13. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 25, 2018 at 10:35 PM (#5752057)
Of course, tonight, Santana made a stunning backhand stop on the line, and through a perfect bullet to first with 2 on and 2 out! It really was a fine, fine play.
   14. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 25, 2018 at 10:38 PM (#5752058)
They've only got 3 guys posting an OPS+ over 100 -- Hoskins (a 1B), Santana (a 1B) and Fraco (the lousy-fielding 3B Santana is proposing to replace).


Their one top-100 position player, Alec Bohm, is a 3B who the prospect mavens thinks will be a DH/1B. I'm not terribly confident in Matt Klentak, GM.
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: September 25, 2018 at 10:43 PM (#5752061)
reminds me of circa 1980s Steinbrenner signing FA Dave Collins as he tried to corner the market in SB
:)
   16. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: September 26, 2018 at 10:05 AM (#5752192)
Whether or not Santana can do it I have no idea but I've always felt 3B is a good spot to try a former catcher. Typically they have the footwork and hands to adjust and it lets them use their presumably strong arm in a way that wouldn't be relevant at 1B.
   17. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 26, 2018 at 10:27 AM (#5752206)
Santana played third base again last night, and the Rockies got 14 hits and 10 runs against this defense. Now obviously, there's a lot more going into this than who's playing third base, but from what I've seen, this is far from an optimal defensive alignment.
   18. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 26, 2018 at 10:55 AM (#5752237)
the Rockies got 14 hits and 10 runs against this defense


Let's not take all the credit away from Vince Velasquez.
   19. Rally Posted: September 26, 2018 at 12:36 PM (#5752356)
Whether or not Santana can do it I have no idea but I've always felt 3B is a good spot to try a former catcher. Typically they have the footwork and hands to adjust and it lets them use their presumably strong arm in a way that wouldn't be relevant at 1B.


Worked out OK for Josh Donaldson

They've only got 3 guys posting an OPS+ over 100 -- Hoskins (a 1B), Santana (a 1B) and Fraco (the lousy-fielding 3B Santana is proposing to replace).


Offense is very balanced. Their 2nd best regular by OPS+ is Franco (105) and 7th best is Hernandez (94). The difference is small enough that a hot week or two could flip flop them. The only offensive weak spot they have is SS.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: September 26, 2018 at 07:24 PM (#5752830)
Whether or not Santana can do it I have no idea but I've always felt 3B is a good spot to try a former catcher.

And teams agree with you. Torre first moved to 3B, Bench played 3B when not Cing. Phil Nevin was drafted as a C, took forever to develop, eventually became a starting 3B. The Expos tried swapping Michael Barrett between C and 3B for a couple of years. Russell Martin has played a fair bit of 3B, Brandon Inge played a ton of it. Keith Moreland came up as a C, was moved to RF mostly but played 3B for a while for the Cubs (a pretty desperate move).

Probably their most natural alternative position is 1B but most Cs won't hit well enough to hold down 1B, especially if they're switching their in their 30s. The main problem tends to be range ... and some guys, not having seen a real groundball hit at them since high school, tend to play grounders more like wild pitches (I'm looking at you Moreland!) but a number of them have been solid enough.
   21. BDC Posted: September 26, 2018 at 08:02 PM (#5752857)
Todd Zeile, too. I hadn't remembered this, but Zeile went 14 years without catching, and then caught two games near the end of the season for the 2004 Mets, at the age of 38.

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