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Saturday, August 13, 2011

Cashman on A.J. Burnett: ‘Smoke the objective pipe’

And he’ll still deserve an early hookah!

In the eyes of many, Burnett (8-9, 4.60 ERA) hasn’t pitched well enough to keep his spot in the rotation. But Cashman sees things a bit differently. He thinks everything has been overblown.

“I encourage everybody to just break it down,” Cashman said. “Break it down. Compare him to other people. Look at his start-by-start. Look at his run support. If you smoke the objective pipe, I think the coverage on him would be a little smoother, more accurate.”

The Yankees, who have used a six-man rotation for nearly two weeks, will go back to a five-man rotation next week.

“We’ve got six guys who are capable of pitching in a rotation in a pennant race,” Cashman said. “That’s a good thing. Someone is going to have to go, and we’re going to make that decision. But this stuff about [whether] A.J. Burnett is worthy of being ripped from the rotation is a bunch of crap.”

Cashman continued: “I have more objectivity than most of us, let’s put it that way. I’m just used to the [expletive] emotional response to stuff that doesn’t really reflect reality. A.J. Burnett is not pitching anywhere close to as bad as people say.”

Repoz Posted: August 13, 2011 at 02:54 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: projections, sabermetrics, yankees

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   1. Ron J Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:14 AM (#3899071)
My nephew (who lives and dies with the Yankees) passionately wants Cashman fired. And Hal to take over as GM. He'll see this as yet more evidence as to why Cashman has to go.

From what I can tell he'll have a lot of company. Objectivity on the subject of Burnett is in mighty short supply.
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:24 AM (#3899083)
Objectivity on the subject of Burnett is in mighty short supply.


Agreed. It's kind of odd, really.

I haven't looked at the numbers on flakiness, but I wonder if Burnett is more flaky in games and in innings, which leads people to over-react about him. Then he's got the big contract. And he seems to annoy people by throwing pies after a big win. He's overpaid, which isn't the same thing as saying he's bad.
   3. bunyon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:28 AM (#3899088)
Ron, as someone who isn't a Yankee fan, may I just say that I deeply, sincerely hope your nephew gets his wish.
   4. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:36 AM (#3899091)
but I wonder if Burnett is more flaky in games and in innings, which leads people to over-react about him. Then he's got the big contract.


I think this definitely is a part of it. He loses it all of a sudden and it's like he's left a flaming poop on the mound after. Cruising through 5 and he has 2 outs in the 6th. He faces the bottom of the line-up and proceeds to walk a batter after getting an 0-2 count on him. He hits the next guy, then throws two wild pitches in a row. Then gives up a bomb to Chone Figgins, and the next thing you know, the Yanks are down 12 runs.
   5. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:38 AM (#3899092)
Also, regarding Cashman, hasn't he done an excellent job this season getting quality pitching for cheap? It's strange to complain about the guy when he's the one who basically brought in all the pitchers who have the team at the best ERA+ in the league.
   6. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:42 AM (#3899095)
Cashman continued: “I have more objectivity than most of us, let’s put it that way.
Classic.
   7.     Hey Gurl Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:47 AM (#3899099)

Agreed. It's kind of odd, really.


Have you ever watched him pitch? I HATED him on the Jays. Even when he was pitching well I couldn't ####### stand the guy. I'll take a guy who is slightly worse who can finish an inning in less than an hour.
   8. Repoz Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:05 AM (#3899112)
Also, regarding Cashman, hasn't he done an excellent job this season getting quality pitching for cheap?

Yes. And if Dr. Purita can continue to keep the price under $5,000...he can do it again!
   9. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:06 AM (#3899114)
Brian Cashman just does not give a ####.
   10. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:52 AM (#3899141)
Brian "Honey Badger" Cashman
   11. Dr. Vaux Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:56 AM (#3899142)
Maybe he assumes Colon and/or Garcia will collapse before the end of the season, and doesn't want to destroy Burnett's confidence. But to be honest, if Burnett has any confidence left, he's a moron.
   12. tshipman Posted: August 13, 2011 at 04:59 AM (#3899144)
Brian Cashman has gone from being my least favorite person in baseball to being totally awesome.

I guess that's what happen when you smoke the objective pipe.
   13. Ron J Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:00 AM (#3899156)
#3 The Oriole fan in me agrees.

His complaints about Cashman boil down to failing to see that Posada was done (fair enough in a way I guess, though I don't fault Cashman. They thought he had at least one more year left in him and were wrong), failing to pick up Alfonso Soriano (well he in 11 -- he wasn't sure that Montero and Gardner was enough), failing to strengthen the bullpen (?? yes, I know) and failing to pick up Francisco Liriano. Or Wandy Rodriguez. Or Felix Hernandez or ... but you get the picture.

Most specifically he wants Hal because he thinks the GM's job is to make lots of trades and he thinks Hal will make more trades. He loves trade rumors (and is perfectly willing to start them himself. He really wants to trade B. J. Upton some place)

No credit at all for the stuff that has (at least so far) worked. From what I can tell, he's not unusual among Yankee fans.
   14. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:10 AM (#3899162)
I don't think owners can be GMs.
   15. JoeHova Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:32 AM (#3899164)
I just want to say that "smoke the objective pipe" is one of the weirdest (and possibly best) turns of phrase I've ever heard/seen. I can't decide if it's awesome or stupid but I might have to use it a few times to see what other people's reactions are. Like if people are arguing about what who to vote for and I tell them to just calm down and smoke the objective pipe, how will they react? Or if I see some people about to get into a fight and I say, "hold on fellas, let's all just smoke the objective pipe for a second", what will happen? It would also be a nice euphemism for asking someone to blow you- "hey baby, why don't you smoke my objective pipe all night long?"
   16. ray james Posted: August 13, 2011 at 07:44 AM (#3899166)
I don't think owners can be GMs.


Didn't follow the G. Steinbrenner era, I see.
   17. Cris E Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:01 AM (#3899167)
Maybe he assumes Colon and/or Garcia will collapse before the end of the season, and doesn't want to destroy Burnett's confidence.

This sounds about right. If he can just fake AJ into Oct they can drop whichever old guy gets hurt and move AJ down as far as necessary and still be OK for the playoffs. (They are still playoff-bound, right?)
   18. rr Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:45 AM (#3899169)
I see little chance that "smoke the objective pipe" does not have a run as a BTF meme. I also expect to see it in a few handles.
   19. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: August 13, 2011 at 08:58 AM (#3899170)
Never saw Ernie Harwell smoke the objective pipe before.
   20. rr Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:10 AM (#3899171)
That is the sixth-best objective pipe I've ever smoked. Billy Beane should never have smoked that objective pipe.
   21. Shooty Is Disappointed With His Midstream Urine Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:34 AM (#3899174)
Brian Cashman is objective and he wants Yankee fans to smoke the objective pipe. I'm pretty sure he just told all you Yankee fans to blow him.
   22. Walt Davis Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:36 AM (#3899176)
Clearly a lot of people around here have smoked the objectivist pipe ... talk about your gateway drug to even dumber ideas.

Also I assume smoking the objective pipe is Option K (nobody ever seems to get past J).
   23. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:21 PM (#3899185)
I see little chance that "smoke the objective pipe" does not have a run as a BTF meme.

I see less chance of that than a Astros playoff run. (Sorry, bbc.)

I also expect to see it in a few handles.

Oh hell yeah.
   24. Mash Wilson Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:33 PM (#3899187)
I don't think owners can be GMs.


I hadn't heard that one before. Is that so? I mean, there hasn't been an owner/GM in a long time and if it's forbidden it's probably a Charley Finley rule. I just kind of assumed the practice died out because owners know nothing about baseball and don't want to be embarrassed, so even if they want to control the baseball moves (think Steinbrenner or McLane) they hire a puppet GM to take the heat in the media when it all goes to hell. But I never heard an owner/GM was actually forbidden.
   25. Guapo Posted: August 13, 2011 at 12:37 PM (#3899188)
Chass: LEGALIZE OBJECTIVITY, MR. PRESIDENT
   26. Lassus Posted: August 13, 2011 at 01:21 PM (#3899200)
‘Smoke the objective pipe’

I can just see Cashman at this point giving this quote after an enormous hit. Then maybe offering the pipe to the reporters.
   27. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 01:35 PM (#3899208)
"I'd like to meet this man and smoke with him"
   28. KronicFatigue Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:17 PM (#3899242)
I imagine his "look" adds to the anger for some people. The tattoos, the blonde spiky hair...some people might associate that w/ a lack of scrapyness.
   29. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:33 PM (#3899248)
OK, just smoked some objective pipe on the whole A. J. Burnett thing. Figured out that he's a skinny John Lackey.
   30. BDC Posted: August 13, 2011 at 03:40 PM (#3899252)
A.J. Burnett is not pitching anywhere close to as bad as people say.


Since the Fourth of July he's 0-3 with an ERA of six. Are people saying he's worse than that?
   31. Marcel Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:32 PM (#3899290)
Since the Fourth of July he's 0-3 with an ERA of six. Are people saying he's worse than that?


Wow, that's what? 7 starts? Since when does that count as anything other than a small sample size?
   32. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#3899295)
I don't know what Yankees fans thought they were getting when they signed Burnett. He's never had an ERA+ above 122.
   33. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: August 13, 2011 at 05:58 PM (#3899296)
I don't think owners can be GMs.


Maybe not what you have in mind but doesn't Beane have a stake in the A's? I know owners can't be on field personal (I.e. The Ted Turner rule) but I don't think there Os a against GMs.
   34. Greg K Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3899298)
I don't know what Yankees fans thought they were getting when they signed Burnett. He's never had an ERA+ above 122.

I do agree that (some) Yankees fans seem to be wanting him to be an ace. But he did have an ERA+ of greater than 110 for 5 of the last 7 seasons before signing the contract. (And one of those below was in just 23 innings).

By reasonable expectations Burnett's been a pretty big disappointment too. Also, he tends to fail in particularly frustrating ways, which even if they don't objectively make him worse, is understandably grating on fans.
   35. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:05 PM (#3899299)
I don't know what Yankees fans thought they were getting when they signed Burnett. He's never had an ERA+ above 122.

And apart from 80 innings as a rookie and a short stint pitching with a mangled elbow, he'd never had one below 104, so I imagine the 85 ERA+ over his past 330 innings -- replacement's about 83, by the way -- falls outside the scope of "what they thought they were getting."
   36. Greg K Posted: August 13, 2011 at 06:10 PM (#3899302)
Two Gregs Agree...AJ Burnett sucks.
   37. joeysdadjoe Posted: August 13, 2011 at 09:53 PM (#3899373)
Nova has been great and Hughes has a shutout through 5. Burnett looks like the 6th best starter right now.
   38. Tripon Posted: August 13, 2011 at 10:43 PM (#3899378)
$85 million for a guy you could argue 'did not suck' before he signed with your team is probably not the best selling point for a guy. That applies to both Burnett and Lackey.
   39. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 10:54 PM (#3899380)
Hughes last 3 starts: 18 IP, 16 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 13 K, 1 HRA

Nova last 3 starts: 20.2 IP, 17 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 4 BB, 16 K, 2 HRA

AJ last 3 starts: 18.1 IP, 25 H, 15 R, 15 ER, 5 BB, 19 K, 4 HRA
   40. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM (#3899385)
Hughes last 3 starts: 18 IP, 16 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 2 BB, 13 K, 1 HRA

Nova last 3 starts: 20.2 IP, 17 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 4 BB, 16 K, 2 HRA

AJ last 3 starts: 18.1 IP, 25 H, 15 R, 15 ER, 5 BB, 19 K, 4 HRA


Not sure what the obsession is with the last 3 starts (*), but from the above AJ has clearly been hit-unlucky. Yes, he's been bitten by the HR ball as well, but there's no denying he's been unlucky on balls in play.

(*) Other than cherry picking, I mean. Hughes, even after that stretch, has a 4.40 ERA since coming back. (I won't bother citing his still-astronomical ERA for the year.) That's not exactly lights out, and it's about the same as Burnett's 4.60 season ERA.
   41. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:27 PM (#3899386)
#38 - Lackey sure seemed more consistent than Burnett over the last 5-7 years. Lackey had one really good season - 150 ERA+ - and four seasons of 115-129 while Burnett hovered around 115+ without the big spike year. But they were more similar than I expected. I thought Lackey really was superior to Burnett - but it was closer than I thought.
   42. NJ in DC (Now with Wife!) Posted: August 13, 2011 at 11:35 PM (#3899387)
[40] Last 3 starts were chosen because that's when Nova came back up and created the 6 in 5 "problem" (momentarily solved by skipping a Freddy Garcia turn due to a cut on his finger). I have stopped watching AJ starts because I'm sick of his ####, so I can't speak to this, but AJ might be hit unlucky and he might just be getting hit because he sucks (like the end of the Wang and K. Brown runs in NYY)
   43. joeysdadjoe Posted: August 14, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#3899399)
AJ pitches well enough to lose.
   44. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 14, 2011 at 01:30 AM (#3899430)
CC last three starts: 22.0 IP, 29 H, 14 R, 14 ER, 1 BB, 19 K, 7 HR

Go figure.

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