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Tuesday, October 01, 2019

Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (October 2019)

Universal released a behind-the-scenes video on the making of Sam Mendes’ upcoming WWI drama 1917, which provides the first look at the way it was uniquely lensed to appear as one continuous take to create a real-time experience.

...

Filming largely on location in England, Mendes and cinematographer Roger Deakins created long takes with camera movement, choreographed to appear as one continuous take for an immersive, real-time experience. Respected director of photography Deakins — who won an Oscar for Blade Runner 2049 and was nominated an additional 13 times — previously worked with Mendes on Skyfall, Revolutionary Road and Jarhead.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: October 01, 2019 at 03:56 AM | 532 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: movies, music, off-topic, television, whatever else belongs under the rubric of 'popular culture'

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   301. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5888262)
(reads the last 40 posts)

holy #### you guys do not watch non-Hollywood movies do you?


Most of which are about music. Jesus.

holy #### you do not read many non-Big Two comics do you?
   302. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:50 AM (#5888263)
holy #### you guys do not watch non-Hollywood movies do you?


I can't speak for anyone else, but I watch plenty of non-Hollywood movies. So, um, maybe you could be more specific in what exactly you are talking about?
   303. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5888264)
holy #### you guys do not watch non-Hollywood movies do you?


I do. It's my contention that Hollywood still exerts an impossibly large influence over most world cinema. Alternative (narrative) cinema labors under the anxiety of its influence. Anti-Hollywood films exhibit the same influence, because their innovations and transgressions need to be interpreted in the context of mainstream filmmaking.

In the music world, there's no central dominating influence, nothing approaching it.
   304. Davo Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:54 AM (#5888267)
Terrible shot framing, dialogue, acting and such are (i would assert) at least somewhat objective.

like I guess if you ignore Bresson and Snow and Godard and Tscherkassky and Akerman and Brakhage and Cassavetes and Warhol and Varda and Swanberg and Fassbinder and Straub-Huillet and Benning and Sanders-Brahms and Waters and Deren and and and and and and, sure, that parses
   305. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5888268)
In the music world, there's no central dominating influence, nothing approaching it.
Music as a whole? Of course not. But again, I agree that none of this makes sense if the field of discussion is "all music everywhere." If we're talking about current American pop music, the central dominating influence is clearly the status-symbol dance club.
   306. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5888269)
holy #### you guys do not watch non-Hollywood movies do you?


Speaking of which, I watched Memories of Murder last night, which is Joon-ho Bong's 2nd film (2003), a dramatization of the case of the Hwaseong serial murders, committed by South Korea's first serial killer.

If you haven't seen it, it's well worth a watch and if you have seen it (and remember how it ends) a trip to the bottom of the film's Wikipedia page is recommended.
   307. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5888271)
there's a refusal to label even the most obvious examples of "craft, no art" music - the ones that are facially and completely analogous to Faster & Furiouser (or insert whatever crappy movie) - as non-substantive, lowbrow, lesser in the same way that you're comfortable describing the inferior movies. So yes, the spectra may be different overall, but things are very much the same at the one end. Why are they treated differently?


Ok, so what you're asking is if we limit the discussion to only the most cynical, shitty, cash-grabby productions of each form, is it fair to be more dismissive of the movie than of the song? Maybe? I don't even know if I act that way.
   308. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5888274)
If we're talking about current American pop music, the central dominating influence is clearly the status-symbol dance club.


I see this as a limited, transient and superficial influence. Not a good comparison.
   309. Davo Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:01 PM (#5888275)
BBTF: (watches Zulawski’s POSSESSION “that’s not how normal people sit in a chair, that’s objectively bad acting, thumbs down.”
   310. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5888276)
(watches Zulawski’s POSSESSION


Which I've been wanting to do for well over a decade now. Is it out there for streaming or rental somewhere?
   311. Davo Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:10 PM (#5888278)
(watches Peter Tscherkassky’s OUTER SPACE): “terrible shot framing, you can barely see Barbara Hershey’s face, thumbs down.”
   312. Davo Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:12 PM (#5888279)
310- Dude, you basically called me a Nazi last night, wtf?
   313. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5888281)
Davo you seem to be struggling with the notion that subjective/objective is not a binary state, but instead is a continuum, with most things falling nearer one than the other. I think it weird that you are so outraged by that, but I don't know what to say dude, other than life is not just black/white, we have a whole rainbow of colors.
   314. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:14 PM (#5888283)
Davo, stop it. Obviously there are many examples of highly artistic directors that successfully ignore and flout filmmaking convention. Give us some credit. Don't do that stupid internet thing where you take the least charitable possible interpretation of the other's words.
   315. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5888284)
Ok, so what you're asking is if we limit the discussion to only the most cynical, shitty, cash-grabby productions of each form, is it fair to be more dismissive of the movie than of the song? Maybe? I don't even know if I act that way.
Well, you've pretty resolutely resisted dismissing the songs, at least.
   316. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5888285)
Obviously there are many examples of highly artistic directors that successfully ignore and flout filmmaking convention.


In my profession there are a variety of rules one typically follows (Data Architecture if you must know). When I interview job candidates I am interested in knowing if they understand the rules AND if they understand when it is OK to break the rules.

Most of the time breaking the rules is a terrible idea and displays a fundamental lack of understanding, but sometimes there are really good reasons to break the rules. The best architects know when to do that and can explain why they are doing it.

I strongly suspect there are analogues to most technical professions, including directing a movie.
   317. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5888286)
310- Dude, you basically called me a Nazi last night, wtf?


Turn the other cheek, bible boy.

And of course I did no such thing, but merely alluded to your fatuous approach here, whereby some film critic & a certain director's movies have "opened up a completely new way for (you) to think about life and art."
   318. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5888287)
And we were having such a nice, rational discussion.
   319. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5888288)
PF, I didn't miss your request for an explication of my ideas on modern capitalism's corrosive impact. I'm just sick today, and on lots of cold meds, so not really up to. I'll get to it at some point.
   320. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:23 PM (#5888289)
Well, you've pretty resolutely resisted dismissing the songs, at least.


Maybe that's because I don't think I can even distinguish which songs these days are cynical cash grabs, and which are not, and which are somewhere in between. Can you?

As for films, I do think I'm probably more cautious than most about dismissing them.
   321. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5888290)
I'm just sick today, and on lots of cold meds


Which are of course the product of modern capitalism. Case closed, you tool of Big Pharma.
   322. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5888291)
Maybe that's because I don't think I can even distinguish which songs these days are cynical cash grabs, and which are not, and which are somewhere in between. Can you?
"Cynical cash grabs," maybe not - we're not privy to people's motivations, although it can often be strongly inferred. But non-substantive? Sure, from the objective evidence. Not perfectly, but well enough to be comfortable with it. Just like most people with films.

Hope you feel better soon, Snapper.
   323. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5888293)
"Cynical cash grabs," maybe not - we're not privy to people's motivations, although it can often be strongly inferred. But non-substantive? Sure. Not perfectly, but well enough to be comfortable with it. Just like most people with films.


Yeah, but I'm on record as not caring if music is substantive.
   324. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:30 PM (#5888294)
Hope you feel better soon, Snapper.

Thanks. It's just a nasty cold.
   325. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5888295)
Yeah, but I'm on record as not caring if music is substantive.
Sure, but that's a different issue than being able to make that determination in the first place.
   326. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:34 PM (#5888296)
Hope you feel better soon, Snapper.

Thanks. It's just a nasty cold.


"Just"? Those are awful. Feel better.

   327. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:37 PM (#5888298)
I think "We are the world" was a totally cynical cash grab and bid to virtue signal. Of course the cash did (I assume) go to a good cause, but the whole exercise was still cynical as heck and resulted in (IMO) a terrible song.

First song that occurred to me as a cynical cash grab.
   328. PreservedFish Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5888301)
Sure, but that's a different issue than being able to make that determination in the first place.


I've lost the thread of this small part of the argument, to be honest.

I think you're correct about the overall point - people are more comfortable dismissing film than music. I also think I did a pretty good job of explaining why that's reasonable.
   329. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:44 PM (#5888302)
Agreed. I'm just saying that when you get down to the low end of the spectrum, people should be equally comfortable with dismissing music. If you don't care about the substance, well, you're free to be part of the problem ;).
   330. Davo Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5888304)
And we were having such a nice, rational discussion.

cmon, let gef have his fun, better on me than him shooting up a southern church
   331. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 09, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5888305)
Do I have to separate you two?? Don't make me stop this car!
   332. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:02 PM (#5888308)
I dismiss plenty of music. You should hear me at sporting events after the national anthem has been butchered yet again. It doesn't get much more dismissive than that.
   333. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:03 PM (#5888309)
cmon, let gef have his fun, better on me than him shooting up a southern church


I grew up -- well, from probably toddlerhood through most of the summer before 2nd grade -- next door to an Assembly of God church (on the other side of which was their parsonage; the preacher's daughter was the one who let me know Santa Claus didn't exist). Those guys make the Southern Baptists look like high tea with the Queen of England. They're basically the even more uncouth cousins of the Pentecostals, who themselves are not to be confused with posh Catholics or anything of the sort. Till I was probably in college, their services featured the only electric guitar I ever heard live.

I think I've been warped ever since. Though while I was at it I did manage to win some sort of Bible verse competition during their version of Vacation Bible School.

My co-worker is the son of a now-deceased Assembly of God minister, but he seems to have gotten over it.
   334. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5888310)
So in writing the above post something occurred to me.

I am very comfortable dismissing individual songs, but I am not OK with dismissing whole categories or genre of songs. And I think I am exactly the same regarding movies.
   335. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5888312)
I am not OK with dismissing whole categories or genre of songs. And I think I am exactly the same regarding movies.


I've been known to do that with musicals, but damn if I didn't enjoy the hell out of Anna & the Apocalypse a couple of days ago (probably the first musical I've watched since Hedwig & the Angry Inch, though I'm likely forgetting a couple of films).

Which, come to think of it, is certainly not a Hollywood movie (ditto for Hedwig). Now I need to watch its genesis, Zombie Musical, on YouTube.
   336. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5888318)
And I should assert that in many ways I echo Davo's frustration with various people's reluctance (not necessarily evinced here, but definitely in the public at large) to venture outside the Hollywood parameters. I've been driven to near-distraction more than once on the Classic Horror Film Board by the minuscule attention given to imaginative, worthwhile independent films. The latest big-budget comic book movie or comparable blockbuster will garner dozens of pages of comment, while even something like Bone Tomahawk apparently doesn't get a single mention (assuming the search function can be trusted, of course).

One guy told me, almost verbatim, that if a film can't be seen on the big screen (i.e. isn't direct-to-video), he doesn't regard it as being "really" a movie.

What. The. ####. That's like limiting one's music listening to whatever a Top 40 station (do those still exist?) deigns to play. Pathetic.
   337. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:41 PM (#5888323)
334/mm - same. Also same on anthem performances (an ex of mine (opera singer) was a frequent anthem performer and had a real get in / get out quickly ethos that I wholeheartedly support).

336 - maybe check out different boards?
   338. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: October 09, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5888326)
One guy told me, almost verbatim, that if a film can't be seen on the big screen (i.e. isn't direct-to-video), he doesn't regard it as being "really" a movie.


My God, he has missed masterpieces like Sharknado, Sharknado 2: the 2nd one, 2-Headed Shark Attack, etc, etc.!
   339. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 09, 2019 at 02:42 PM (#5888348)
336 - maybe check out different boards?


Problem is, most of 'em consist of a bunch of dunderheads waxing ecstatic about Saw No. 48 or the like.
   340. Davo Posted: October 10, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5889002)
Kevin Smith: Martin Scorsese directed 'the biggest superhero movie ever made' with 'Last Temptation of Christ'

"And I'm not diminishing Jesus by any stretch of the imagination,” Smith said. “But who is Jesus if not a superhero?"

Just the dumbest ####### imbecile.
   341. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5889076)
I've thought of another reason why people are more critical of movies than of music. I think it's easier for the average person to imagine himself directing, editing or otherwise improving a movie than it is recording or producing an album.

I'm not conversant in musical theory or production or anything on that level. If you put me in a studio with real musicians, whether they're a smooth jazz trio, an international Europop hit-making committee, whatever, I'd be unable to contribute anything. I'd just embarrass myself by opening my mouth. It would just be stuff like, "the drums should be louder here." I've been thinking about music that I hate because of this thread, and I'm not sure I even have the vocabulary to properly articulate why I hate some songs.

But moviemaking is at heart storytelling, something every human has engaged in. It's easy to have an opinion on a bit of dialogue, a character's motivation, or a plot twist. It's much easier to identify and criticize errors.
   342. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 05:05 PM (#5889083)
Just the dumbest ####### imbecile.

Someone has no idea how mythmaking and the very basic humanity of oral tradition throughout the the entirety of history works, and it isn't Smith.
   343. Davo Posted: October 10, 2019 at 05:16 PM (#5889087)
342- I repeat myself.
   344. Davo Posted: October 10, 2019 at 05:52 PM (#5889100)
Guy in jorts: “you know when you think about it, Jesus was kinda like the original Superman, right? Smooochy boochy.”

Lassus: “such wisdom, o great one, i too have studied the ancient texts.”
   345. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:27 PM (#5889126)
Well, throw in Gilgamesh and all sorts of other clearly mythical figures whose alleged lives and times dovetail nicely with many if not most of Jesus' alleged adventures, and I'd say Lassus isn't going out on too long or precarious a limb.

Of course, those other guys can't claim the endorsement of such stalwarts as Franklin Graham, Fred Phelps, Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson, so I guess your position has that going for it.
   346. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5889130)
It's not a long limb - a page ago I speculated on far future generations confusing Spiderman and Zeus. But I think that Smith's comment at best would qualify as a moderately amusing quip among friends ... it's not something I would want to share with a room full of journalists.
   347. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2019 at 09:36 PM (#5889166)
If it makes you feel any better, ArmonDavo, I thought Dogma was a pretty crappy film.
   348. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 11, 2019 at 02:44 AM (#5889199)
A page ago I speculated on far future generations confusing Spiderman and Zeus.


An easy mistake. But Zeus wasn't in Spider-Man, he was in The Dark Knight. (For reals.)
   349. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5889228)
So Davo, you have called the similarity between the two "dumbest ####### imbecile". And added a snide remark. But I notice you have not actually presented anything even resembling an actual argument supporting how categorically different they are.

That leads me to believe you got nothing, but feel free to prove me wrong.
   350. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:03 AM (#5889236)
"dumbest ####### imbecile"


A copy & paste from Two Corinthians, I believe.
   351. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5889249)
... Or maybe I'm confusing it with the Book of Speed Racer.
   352. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5889252)
349- Sorry I thought I’d posted it. My response to Kevin Smith’s claim that Martin Scorsese’s The Last Temptation of Christ is a “superhero movie” is right here.
   353. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5889255)
I elaborated upon Smith’s claim in this post here.
   354. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 10:51 AM (#5889261)
Smith is, of course, a complete ass & has been for ... well, -ever, I'm sure. (Last thing of his I saw was Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, & that's because a reporter of mine dragged me to it. Last thing of his I willingly saw would've been, I think, Mallrats.*) Broken clocks are occasionally right, though, & whether he is or isn't on this point, your refusal to actually address the matter is conspicuous. So it goes.

*Edit: Whoops -- forget he did Red State, which I also saw. Very solid, IMHO, & also very atypical of the two movies mentioned above & the other thing of his I've watched, Chasing Amy.
   355. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5889267)
Sorry Davo, but no I am not going to Twitter or Youtube.

Like I told my toddler (years ago), use your words.
   356. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5889300)
Smoochy boochies
   357. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5889304)
bah I have been slain in debate by Silent Bob! I thought I had won but he cleverly deduced that my supposed winning barb was in fact a mere ad hominem. o God, why have you forced me to compete in the arena of facts and logic, where I am powerless to the Mallrats auteur’s superior intellect!
   358. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5889308)
You're amusing -- & impressing -- no one. But then, what else is new?
   359. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 12:32 PM (#5889313)
Dammit, if I’ve lost the support of even the bigot who thinks all Christians are Nazis, I’ve really lost the thread!
   360. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5889319)
.
   361. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 02:17 PM (#5889395)
Good grief, you're pathetic. Seek help. Better yet, go away. Towering cinematic achievements like Speed Racer and Smallfoot & your favorite "mumblemore" crap aren't going to watch themselves.
   362. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 02:20 PM (#5889396)
So I mentioned a few days ago at book club that I was planning on watching Westworld and everyone warned me away. In other quarters I have heard at least Season 1 is worth watching, so I thought I would seek another set of opinions.

So how worthwhile is Westworld?
   363. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5889414)
“Mods, the guy I called a Nazi isn’t being nice to me, please put him on time out!!!”

My goodness are you insecure.
   364. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 03:59 PM (#5889445)
No one is asking for you to be "put on time out," though given your infantile behavior it's probably called for. You've removed any doubt as to whether you're capable of non-idiotic behavior. The answer is "no."

You contribute very little here except endless lists of mostly (almost certainly) stupid movies you've watched & additional endless lists of movies your (almost certainly) equally clueless online pals have watched.

And no one called you a Nazi. You need to shed that obsession. Perhaps substitute a therapist for Jesus or some molestation-inclined preacher next time you venture out of your cloister & see about getting some actual help, quite possibly of a medicinal nature.

Remember -- God helps those who help themselves. There's no shame in admitting that you haven't got what it takes to handle reality very well, unless you're obnoxious about it, which unfortunately has proven to be the case here.

Meanwhile, you're now back on ignore. Removing you from that status a few weeks ago was a signal mistake on my part, obviously.

   365. Davo Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5889453)
I’m gonna miss that wit, Gef.

(I kid. I’ve been posting here for ten years or so, and I’m fact can’t ever recall a single thing you have ever posted here. You might as well be an NPC, just submitting randomly-generated content to increase the comment counts on this dying site’s threads. I have a good recall of individual posters, but you are a complete cypher, just absolutely nothing going on, not a single memorable idea or turn of phrase to be found.)
   366. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:25 PM (#5889456)
   367. PreservedFish Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:36 PM (#5889458)
This flamewar is worse than a Kevin Smith movie. And that's saying something.
   368. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5889462)
This flamewar is worse than a Kevin Smith movie. And that's saying something.
I will go to bat for Mallrats as a vastly underrated comedy.
   369. PreservedFish Posted: October 11, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5889467)
In truth, I haven't see a Kevin Smith movie since I was a teenager.
   370. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 11, 2019 at 05:10 PM (#5889476)
I remember liking Clerks and Chasing Amy when I saw them, but I haven't seen them since and the rest of what I've seen from Smith (Dogma, Clerks II) has left me leery of revisiting either at this point.

I will say, from what I have I'd much rather go see Smith tell stories onstage than go see one of his movies; it doesn't seem to be on YouTube anymore, but his recollection of the time he was hired by Prince to go to Paisley Park and film live audience listening party reactions to Prince's (then) unreleased album The Rainbow Children is pretty damn great.

[edit] Ah, best I can do, a transcript and two of four parts.
   371. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5889482)
This flamewar is worse than a Kevin Smith movie. And that's saying something.


I like several of Kevin Smith's movies. They are not awesome, but mostly they amuse me. Clerks, Chasing Amy, and Zach and Miri Make a porno were all perfectly fine movies. Not great but good. Dogma was ... a movie. Jay and Silent Bob strike Back was worse. Much worse.
   372. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5889483)
And I still would like opinions on Westworld.
   373. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 11, 2019 at 06:00 PM (#5889501)
Without Kevin Smith, I suppose I wouldn't know my former fellow North Little Rockian -- Rocker? Rockite? Rocketeer?* whatever -- Joey Lauren Adams exists, so he gets points for that. And Mallrats & especially Chasing Amy were perfectly enjoyable.

Well, strike that. I'd know Adams from Dazed & Confused anyway.


*A movie I need to see, dammit.
   374. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 11, 2019 at 06:03 PM (#5889504)
And I still would like opinions on Westworld.

Yul Brenner was great.
   375. vortex of dissipation Posted: October 11, 2019 at 08:05 PM (#5889532)
Rocketeer?* whatever -- Joey Lauren Adams exists, so he gets points for that. And Mallrats & especially Chasing Amy were perfectly enjoyable.

Well, strike that. I'd know Adams from Dazed & Confused anyway.


*A movie I need to see, dammit.


Purely personal opinion, but I think Jennifer Connelly looked better in that movie than any movie star I've ever seen, in any movie...
   376. RJ in TO Posted: October 11, 2019 at 09:14 PM (#5889557)
Well, strike that. I'd know Adams from Dazed & Confused anyway.
You could have also watched her in the FOX sitcom Top of the Heap, starring Matt LeBlanc. It was the most successful spinoff from Married with Children, lasting a whopping seven episodes despite being extremely terrible.

   377. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 12, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5889711)
Purely personal opinion, but I think Jennifer Connelly looked better in that movie than any movie star I've ever seen, in any movie...


Catherine Zeta-Jones in The Mask of Zorro was so gorgeous that every time she was on screen I was pulled out of the movie into just marveling at her beauty.
   378. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 12, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5889713)
You could have also watched her in the FOX sitcom Top of the Heap, starring Matt LeBlanc. It was the most successful spinoff from Married with Children, lasting a whopping seven episodes despite being extremely terrible.


Didn't know that, but in any event I wasn't watching any sitcoms to speak of back then. Did see a handful of Married with Childrens (Marrieds with Children?), but I think most of the time those happened to be on the TV at the laundromat I used back in my pre-washer days.
   379. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 12, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5889714)
Purely personal opinion, but I think Jennifer Connelly looked better in that movie than any movie star I've ever seen, in any movie...


Definitely more than reason enough to catch it, then.

Just moved it to very nearly the top of my Netflix queue, behind only Midsommar (& ahead of the also-just-added To Kill a Mockingbird, which I'm almost positive I haven't seen, though various scenes I seem to recall from this film about 20 years ago at the Hot Springs Documentary Film Festival make me a tad doubtful about that. I finally got around to reading the novel (followed immediately by Go Tell a Watchman) only a couple of years ago.
   380. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 12, 2019 at 12:58 PM (#5889716)
   381. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: October 12, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5889719)
Robert Forster


Not the Go-Betweens alumnus of the same name, so at least there's that.

   382. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: October 12, 2019 at 02:24 PM (#5889746)
I may be screwing up on this thread by sincerely answering a question, but I really enjoyed Westworld season 1, and fell away from it in season 2. The first season has some fun mystery elements and twists, an insane number of great actors, some lovely cinematography, and at least some hints at a view on philosophical topics. Season 2 has lots of great acting, but I found the plotting and characterisations much, much thinner.

Certainly worth a try, especially on a good quality setup. But then, I liked Dogma, so go figure.
   383. Davo Posted: October 14, 2019 at 11:09 AM (#5890350)
   384. Lassus Posted: October 14, 2019 at 11:41 AM (#5890354)
I may be screwing up on this thread by sincerely answering a question, but I really enjoyed Westworld season 1, and fell away from it in season 2. The first season has some fun mystery elements and twists, an insane number of great actors, some lovely cinematography, and at least some hints at a view on philosophical topics. Season 2 has lots of great acting, but I found the plotting and characterisations much, much thinner.

This is incredibly fair, although I liked season 2 more than you did, probably. It IS weaker, although oddly kind of tighter and more intimate. I'm hoping Season 3 really knocks it out of the park, although I am an optimist, even as a Mets fan.

WATCHMEN might be good, although it looks more like a tire fire.

I'm disappointed that HBO has pinned its hopes on Pullman and His Dark Materials as it's post-Game of Thrones plan. Silverberg's Lord Valentine's Castle and all things Majipoor would have been way, way better.
   385. Baldrick Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:00 PM (#5890358)
I re-read His Dark Materials last year and...kind of hated it.

It was a very weird experience. I remember blowing through all three books in a few days when I first read them, and being filled with excitement at the amazing world. But a decade later, on my second time through, I found it to be poorly constructed, deeply under-characterized, and (maybe worst of all) boring. I started the re-read so I could jump right into the new book fresh, but after trudging through three books I had zero desire to continue.
   386. Greg Pope Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5890360)
Purely personal opinion, but I think Jennifer Connelly looked better in that movie than any movie star I've ever seen, in any movie...

While that may be a factor that I hadn't considered, I absolutely love that movie. In fact, I have a movie poster of it on my office wall at work. I don't even know what it is about it that I like so much.

But my god, yes, Jennifer Connelly looks amazing.
   387. The Rare Albino Shrieking Goat of Guatemala. Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:13 PM (#5890362)
Yeah, I can't say I'm overly excited by the HBO "HDM" series. I remember liking the first book, somewhat liking the second book and struggling to finish the third book.
   388. Lassus Posted: October 14, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5890364)
I had more of #387's response than #385's as I read them, with a bit more anger and frustration. I spent the last 50 or so pages of the last book wanting to punch Pullman to get him to stop yelling at me through the text. (Literally punch, figuratively yelling.) I really DID like the first two books, though.
   389. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: October 14, 2019 at 01:24 PM (#5890376)
I had issues with HDM. I mostly liked the first book and despite enjoying the world really didn't like the second. I never read the third, mostly because I didn't want to be lectured.
   390. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 16, 2019 at 10:48 AM (#5891044)
Robert Forster


Who watched "El Camino"? Not bad for a final performance.

Aaron Paul is so good in "Breaking Bad", and has absolutely nothing else notable in his resume. He's the Richard Hidalgo of Hollywood.
   391. Lassus Posted: October 16, 2019 at 10:55 AM (#5891047)
He's going to be a lead character (it seems) in the third season of Westworld upcoming.

He's been pretty integral to Bojack Horseman, although that's pretty niche.

I know it's a hyperbolic crack, but I think Hidalgo's a bit of an undersell.

   392. Davo Posted: October 16, 2019 at 11:26 AM (#5891057)
NYT Bestselling author Shea Serrano, in an interview for his upcoming book Movies (And Other Things):

Q: I’m not really an Old Movie Guy, and you chose to focus only on movies from the ‘80s—and really the ‘90s—on. Are you like me in that you don’t see a ton of appeal in movies older than that?

Serrano: I'm with you on that. I watch old movies and I'm like, "No, thanks." They're not fun. It's clear they were still trying to figure out how to do things. Some of them, of course, were undeniable, like a Jaws or Star Wars or Indiana Jones. You watch those and you go, "Oh, I see in this the bones of what eventually became whatever action franchise.” Or Alien. [But mostly], they’re just not that fun to watch.

When I was working on the “Heist” chapter, I was reading best lists of heist movies. One that kept appearing on the list was this movie called Rififi. It's in black and white. Everybody talks about how great it was. They do this really cool trick in there where there's a long stretch of just straight-up silence while they try to break into wherever. I get it. That part was cool, and I imagine, at the time, it was really fun. But you watch it today, and it's just not that great.
   393. Manny Coon Posted: October 16, 2019 at 11:45 AM (#5891064)
He's been pretty integral to Bojack Horseman, although that's pretty niche.


Todd is a great character and really well voiced act, going between storylines about a clown dentistry business and struggling with his asexuality, is a big difference and he does them both well. I know a few people that liked that Hulu show "The Path" he was the lead in, it lasted 3 seasons and had okish reviews. And on the topic of BoJack voice acting, it was always seems crazy to me that Seth McFarlane keeps winning voice acting Emmys over Will Arnett.
   394. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 16, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5891117)
NYT Bestselling author Shea Serrano, in an interview for his upcoming book Movies (And Other Things)


Well, maybe he knows something about the other things.
   395. PreservedFish Posted: October 16, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5891132)
Personally, I wouldn't have the gall to publish a book that included a focus on heist movies if my research was so shallow as to have relied on internet lists of top heist movies. But that's kind of the Ringer way - flair, moxie and pop culture referenceness above actual expertise.

Old movies certainly have a different pace (generalizing here of course), and I think it's understandable (although lamentable) that some people can't get into them. But the idea that all those old movies were merely the prologue to today's action franchises - well, that's a real shame.

Also, Rififi is terrific.
   396. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 16, 2019 at 05:50 PM (#5891161)
Serrano is entertaining - I enjoyed to varying degrees his books on rap and basketball. He’s not necessarIly authoritative.
   397. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2019 at 07:02 PM (#5891174)
Old movies certainly have a different pace (generalizing here of course), and I think it's understandable (although lamentable) that some people can't get into them.
That's true, and the other major issue I have with old movies is that everything is melodrama (also generalizing of course). The actors are very visibly ACTING!, and the directing, editing and score tend to be blatant and exaggerated. It's like it took 80 years for people to get that film is a different art form than live theater, and you can be subtle on film instead of having to gesticulate out to the back rows.
   398. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: October 16, 2019 at 09:07 PM (#5891193)
I both agree with and enjoy those movies. Same as I enjoy reading about 19th century baseball - same baseball / different game.
   399. frannyzoo Posted: October 16, 2019 at 09:58 PM (#5891199)
I'm reluctant to interject here, but the Manny Coon "Bojack Horseman" and "Billy Ripken..." (both of whom I very much respect) comments overcome my reluctance. The study of "sound" film, particularly before the de facto death of Broadway theater, is all about Broadway and other stage theater. Criticizing films before and including, say, "West Side Story" on melodrama is to not recognize the far more melodramatic extremes found in silent films and the artistic searching in the medium for proper balance between stage and what films "can and should do."

More than anything, what I'd suggest all who are interested in the subject do is observe the artform and consider the context in which it happened, as opposed to "this period in film history didn't do X." In short, those periods in film history were paradigmatically unable to even comprehend X."

I'll close with an example. Casting Natalie Wood (who I as a "normal" white cisgender male born in 1961 absolutely adore) in "West Side Story" might be the single worst casting decision in all of 20th Century American film. It's probably gotta be in anybody Top Ten. Nevertheless, if one observes the casting in its context (admittedly racist), observes the fact that not only was Wood inaccurately cast as to race but singing ability, and studies a film in a genre I personally loathe (musicals), there is SO much to learn and appreciate about this film and its relationship to, among other film study elements, bridging the gap in film honesty between Production Code and what came after.

I'm not saying it's eternally great and should be placed with (insert currently great film here). I'm simply mentioning context is a HUGE part of the fun in viewing what are now old films.

As for "Bojack Horseman," its writing is at a level I've not experienced since, just to pick an oldie, "MASH" (the film, not the TV show). Both in script and voicing, it's already a "classic."

   400. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 16, 2019 at 10:08 PM (#5891200)
Franny - I apologize for my lack of clarity. I completely agree that context is very important, and my comment was not intended to assert that old films are categorically "bad" because of the melodrama - just that it stands in the way of me, personally, being able to enjoy them. I readily admit to not being a film buff in the slightest, which of course hinders my ability to appreciate the various incarnations of film itself as a form, as opposed to just "I liked that movie."
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