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Thursday, November 29, 2012

CBS: Bill Rhoden dismisses baseball Hall of Fame controversy

Craig BIGio...shakes head.

Thursday on “CBS This Morning,” Rhoden said there is “no question these guys are the greatest players in their position…they were superstars before this kind of stuff…and the numbers speak for themselves.”

Rhoden went on to add that despite the steroid accusations, the players in question are still “probably the cleanest guys going into the Hall of Fame,” and defended his stance. “Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,” he said. “To me the debate is not whether they should be in, to me it’s beyond question.”

Rhoden also touched on the so-called “vigilante voters” involved in making the final decision.

Repoz Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:07 AM | 31 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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   1. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4312196)
Rhoden went on to add that despite the steroid accusations, the players in question are still “probably the cleanest guys going into the Hall of Fame,” and defended his stance. “Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”


Is Thoughtcrime really an appropriate disqualifier for the HOF?
   2. bookbook Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4312204)
Absolutely, if you're giving any real weight to the character clause.
   3. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4312221)
Having bad thoughts isn't really a violation of he character clause is it? I mean, wouldn't that keep the baseball equivalent of Muhammad Ali out of the hall of fame?
   4. GregD Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4312223)
Is there a confirmed rapist in the Hall? I wouldn't be surprised but can't think of who offhand.
   5. JJ1986 Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:51 AM (#4312226)
He probably means Puckett.
   6. OsunaSakata Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4312230)
I'm sure you can find statutory if you don't look real hard.

I'd disagree with his assertion that the first-time nominees are nice people aside from PEDs. There's Barry Bonds and his divorce proceedings, Roger Clemens and Mindy McReady (see above).

I always thought of Bill Rhoden, aside from racial issues, as an old white guy's opinions in old black guy's body.
   7. BDC Posted: November 29, 2012 at 11:03 AM (#4312238)
The well-documented racism of somebody like Ty Cobb means absolutely nothing to me in terms of the Hall's character clause. Cobb was an ####### who worked in a segregated industry, but he was doing nothing on his own account to keep it segregated, and in terms of American society, sports were an industry that was continuously evolving toward integration even in Cobb's playing days. (Cobb did play integrated ball in Cuba in 1910, though reports of him in his later playing years have him avoiding integrated exhibition games.) Cap Anson has more on his plate, as he has become widely associated (in a somewhat factoidal way) with actively drawing the color line; he was more influential than Cobb, certainly, and could have done more good than Cobb was in a position to do. But Anson was hardly the only segregationist in 19th-century baseball. At that point, you either have to not celebrate those years at all in a Hall of Fame, or include Anson as no better or worse (when it comes down to it) than most of his Hall contemporaries.

At heart, baseball is a game, and games played a big role (because of their innate fairness) in integrating America. Being part of the game, even if you were a racist in thought, was a whole lot better than taking part in hundreds of other contemporary activities that cemented segregation deliberately and repetitively in place.
   8. GregD Posted: November 29, 2012 at 11:10 AM (#4312242)
Obviously the idea that Clemens or Bonds are nice guys is ridiculous and irrelevant.

On the whole Rhoden sounds exactly in line with the broad views here, no? Blocking Bonds or Clemens is absurd but likely to happen. Rose is in a different category. It's odd to go crazy on steroid usage but have no interest in amphetamines. It's reasonable to treat people who used before the drug policy differently than people who used after. Rhoden isn't my favorite writer--he's dull as toast--but all of this seems reasonable to me.
   9. zack Posted: November 29, 2012 at 11:18 AM (#4312253)
Being part of the game, even if you were a racist in thought, was a whole lot better than taking part in hundreds of other contemporary activities that cemented segregation deliberately and repetitively in place.

Well, except maybe for Jake Powell, if he did what he said he did.
   10. Downtown Bookie Posted: November 29, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4312304)
I'm sure you can find statutory if you don't look real hard.


Leading candidate for today's best out-of-context quote.

DB
   11. BDC Posted: November 29, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4312406)
Great example, zack: Powell's off-season avocations were exactly the kind of "other activities" I meant. And to the extent that he marginalized himself within the game (even Judge Landis disapproved!) it just shows how much less racist "ballplayer" was as a career than "cop" was, in many cities.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: November 29, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4312414)
Current Hall of Famers do no want them in.


Why is this relevant?
   13. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 29, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4312490)
Why is this relevant?

It goes to the degree to which roiding runs counter to the principles and spirit of fair play and fair competition. Other accomplished players who've experienced a long career and success within MLB are very valid witnesses to that.
   14. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: November 29, 2012 at 02:25 PM (#4312513)
You mean the players who were taking amphetamines on a daily basis?
   15. Rusty Priske Posted: November 29, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4312558)
When a writer says that 'they' should be in the Hall we get a comment section saying that they are wrong.

When a writer says that 'they' should NOT be in the Hall we get a comment section saying that they are wrong.


I think I am sensing a pattern.
   16. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: November 29, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4312570)
all writers are wrong? This year I am seeing a lot of new names in the same old arguments so at least its a change of pace from arguing with the same people for the last 9 years or so
   17. Walt Davis Posted: November 29, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4312581)
Current Hall of Famers do not want them in.

Where is the evidence for this? I'm sure some don't want them in ... and I'm sure some don't think Rice (just to pick one) deserves to be there either. Most HoFers seem to express relative ambivalence about PED usages. Some, like Schmidt, even admit they probably would have used. Aaron has said he's OK with Bonds holding the record. As far as I know, Mays and McCovey are still proud of Bonds. Meanwhile, the majority of HoFers simply keep their traps shut about the topic.

Then you get the hypocrisy that most of the living HoFers were PED users.
   18. Rough Carrigan Posted: November 29, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4312594)
For Bill Rhoden, that was a remarkably sane comment.
Get him going on the subject of any team from another city against a team from New York and watch the dumb crazy fly.
   19. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: November 29, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4312598)
“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”


Are they mother rapers or father rapers?
   20. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: November 29, 2012 at 03:14 PM (#4312602)
“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Are they mother rapers or father rapers?


Is it "rape" or "rape-rape"?
   21. bachslunch Posted: November 29, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4312610)
I lean more toward the voters camp because giving our youth the impression to let these characters in at "cheat at all cost" to me is not the right impression.

I've never been a big fan of presenting pro athletes to kids as role models, myself.
   22. Gonfalon B. Posted: November 29, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4312636)
“Give me a break…you’ve got bigots, racists, rapists in the Hall of Fame,”

Are they mother rapers or father rapers?

Is it "rape" or "rape-rape"?


Ahhhhhh, sweet mystery of life, at last I've found yoooouu.
   23. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 06:59 PM (#4312827)
Legitimate?
   24. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4312831)
Current Hall of Famers do not want them in.

How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

   25. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: November 29, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4312842)
How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?

No.
   26. dejarouehg Posted: November 29, 2012 at 08:41 PM (#4312878)
How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?


my guess is that if this were the case, the stage would be fairly empty.

I love Mays and believe he is the greatest plaYER OF ALL TIME, BUT IF YOU LISTEN TO HIM, HE WOULD HAVE INGESTED TOXIC-LADEN PIXIE DUST IF IT MEANT GETTING AN EDGE. SORRY FOR CAPS.
   27. Booey Posted: November 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM (#4312978)
How about the current amphetamine cheats in the HOF? Should they be removed?


my guess is that if this were the case, the stage would be fairly empty.


And my guess is that the stage from the last 25-30 years and that of all future generations would be fairly empty without the roiders.
   28. dejarouehg Posted: November 29, 2012 at 11:07 PM (#4313011)
And my guess is that the stage from the last 25-30 years and that of all future generations would be fairly empty without the roiders.
Agreed. Maybe some Atlanta pitchers would be there.............and I would guess Mariano but who knows?

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