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Monday, March 18, 2013

Chris Carpenter says he’s likely to never pitch again

Given his diagnosis and the “it’s basically all over” comments from Mike Matheny and John Mozeliak last month, it’s not a terribly surprise to hear Chris Carpenter say this when he paid a visit to Cardinals’ camp today, but he said it all the same. Derrick Goold of the Post-Dispatch:

Asked if he sees a way back to the ballpark as a player, Carpenter did not sound hopeful.

“I do (want to keep playing),” Carpenter said. “I don’t think I can.”

More wins than Rich Gossage, more strikeouts than Babe Ruth, lower ERA than Red Ruffing. PUT HIM IN THE HALL.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 18, 2013 at 02:39 PM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, chris carpenter, hall of fame, injuries, retire

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   1. Select Storage Device Posted: March 18, 2013 at 07:30 PM (#4390757)
"Too soon!"

/checks age

"Wow, really?"

Still feels too soon.
   2. Esoteric Posted: March 18, 2013 at 07:57 PM (#4390767)
Adios, Chris. You were the consumnate "asshole pitcher" on the mound, but you were a gamer and you were legitimately great when healthy. Can't say I'll miss you too terribly much, but that's just an NL competitor's fan whose heart you shattered last postseason speaking. Godspeed.

I don't think Carpenter comes all that close to being a HoF'er at all. The real question is: how close to the borderline is he? Additionally, how would he fare here at Primer in the HoM?
   3. Arbitol Dijaler Posted: March 18, 2013 at 08:11 PM (#4390780)
Hall of Jack McDowell maybe.
   4. zonk Posted: March 18, 2013 at 08:41 PM (#4390796)
"Too soon!"

/checks age

"Wow, really?"

Still feels too soon.


Really?

Carpenter has had so many resurrections that he's one of the few guys hanging them up that doesn't make me feel old.. seems like he's been around forever. If someone asked me to name the year Carpenter debuted, and I didn't think too hard about what the current year is - I'd probably guess early 90s.
   5. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 18, 2013 at 09:27 PM (#4390830)
it’s not a terribly surprise


I know I'm not the smartest guy here, but that doesn't sound correct....
   6. Misirlou is on hiding to nowhere Posted: March 18, 2013 at 09:28 PM (#4390832)
"Johnny Dangerously? Did you know your name is an adverb?"

"Hey, I kinda like that."
   7. Spahn Insane Posted: March 18, 2013 at 09:33 PM (#4390840)
Good riddance. Now Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal are going to combine for 30-odd wins this year, just to piss me off.
   8. Select Storage Device Posted: March 18, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4390862)
Really?

Carpenter has had so many resurrections that he's one of the few guys hanging them up that doesn't make me feel old.. seems like he's been around forever. If someone asked me to name the year Carpenter debuted, and I didn't think too hard about what the current year is - I'd probably guess early 90s.


Yah, really. Understand that my hardcore fandom re-emerged in the 2003 offseason. It all makes sense -- he's three years removed from being an /actually/ dominant pitcher instead of just a good one.

I missed the struggling years -- he might have well as been a rookie in 2004. And with his injury history this train was destined for the station pretty damn soon.

So it feels weird. Great pitcher and sad to see it official.
   9. Select Storage Device Posted: March 18, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4390864)
Fell victim to the dreaded double-post. NEVER REFRESH.
   10. RJ in TO Posted: March 18, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4390890)
Considering this could have been said a decade ago, things worked out fairly well for him.
   11. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: March 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM (#4390915)
More wins than Rich Gossage, more strikeouts than Babe Ruth, lower ERA than Red Ruffing. PUT HIM IN THE HALL.


More Cy Young awards and post-season wins than Jack Morris... and about 7 bWAR shy, in 1600ish fewer innings.

And game 5 of the 2011 NLDS was every bit as good as any postseason game Morris ever pitched.
   12. JJ1986 Posted: March 18, 2013 at 11:19 PM (#4390920)
The reason that I knew he had been around so long is that I remember he almost overlapped Cris Carpenter.
   13. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 19, 2013 at 12:41 AM (#4390968)
In the case of Chris Carpenter I think we should use the NFL standards for Hall of Fame worthiness.
   14. Mess with the Meat, you get the Wad! Posted: March 19, 2013 at 01:04 AM (#4390973)
good riddance indeed. Though it is nice that he will be sucking up money from the cards while not pitching
   15. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:28 AM (#4391052)
As a fellow New Hampshire native, we've loved watching him keep fighting after thinking he was done 10 years ago. It's a pretty fascinating, unlikely career:

Hot prospect who struggles to break over "league average" performance, then...

...misses 1 1/2 years due to injury, you think he's done, then...

...goes 51-18 over a three-year period, including a Cy Young Award and another 3rd place finish, then...

...basically misses two years due to injury in his age 32 and 33 seasons, then...

...comes back again, goes 44-22 over three years, including a 2nd place finish in the CYA, leads the NL in starts in the two other years, pitching 472 innings in his final two full seasons.

   16. BDC Posted: March 19, 2013 at 09:53 AM (#4391071)
Career comps for Carpenter, centered on him in terms of Starts and ERA+:

Player             WAR  GS ERAFrom   To   W
Ron Guidry        45.4 323  119 1975 1988 170
Wes Ferrell       45.1 323  116 1927 1941 193
Hippo Vaughn      43.1 332  119 1908 1921 178
Bob Shawkey       41.9 333  113 1913 1927 195
Claude Passeau    41.0 331  113 1935 1947 162
Chief Bender      40.8 334  112 1903 1925 212
Carl Mays         39.3 324  119 1915 1929 208
Virgil Trucks     39.0 328  117 1941 1958 177
Ned Garver        36.0 330  112 1948 1961 129
Chris Carpenter   32.8 332  116 1997 2012 144 


Those are some very fine pitchers, though careers for the most part not long enough for any Hall. (Ferrell's in the HOM, but is kind of a special case; Bender is in the HOF – a "mistake," I reckon; he was outstanding for a while on some great teams, and very famous as a result, but didn't have a long dominant career.)

Interesting how many were long ago; Guidry is the only remotely-near-contemporary, and I have only foggy guesses why, so I will pass on them :)
   17. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: March 19, 2013 at 10:08 AM (#4391089)
The 2000 Blue Jays were a fun team with a lineup full of sluggers (tied for 8th most home runs by a team*), and a rotation featuring two terrible young guys, Chris Carpenter (6.26 ERA) and Roy Halladay (10.64 ERA).

*Of the 14 teams that have hit 240 HRs in a season, all but the 2010 Jays and the 1961 Yankees occurred between 1996 and 2005.
   18. Randy Jones Posted: March 19, 2013 at 10:22 AM (#4391098)
*Of the 14 teams that have hit 240 HRs in a season, all but the 2010 Jays and the 1961 Yankees occurred between 1996 and 2005.


2012 Yankees...

EDIT: and 2009 Yankees
   19. MikeTorrez Posted: March 19, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4391132)
Good to great pitcher just he didn't stay on the mound long enough. Durability is a skill as well. Great career that should be celebrated and kudos to him for putting it all together after Toronto.
   20. MikeTorrez Posted: March 19, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4391133)
it’s not a terribly surprise


I know I'm not the smartest guy here, but that doesn't sound correct....


Nothing could possiblye go wrong....
   21. Greg K Posted: March 19, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4391201)
My super-duper infallible ranking machine has Carpetner currently at #43 among pitchers since 1990.

41 - Josh Beckett
42 - Jake Peavy
43 - Chris Carpenter
44 - Jered Weaver
45 - Barry Zito

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