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Wednesday, October 10, 2018

Chris Sale to Red Sox doubters: ‘Keep comin’ with it’

NEW YORK — Chris Sale does not mind if you doubt, have doubted, or intend to doubt the 2018 Red Sox.

After 13 pitches in a perfect eighth-inning appearance on Tuesday night in the decisive game of the ALDS, Sale was asked about the level of respect the Sox received leading into and during the series. The Sox finished off the Yanks with two consecutive wins in New York, the last one a 4-3 victory on Tuesday.

“We’re here now. Doesn’t matter. Anybody outside of this clubhouse can say whatever they want,” Sale said during the champagne celebration. “We know who we are and we know what we can do. Comes with the business, You know? It’s the nature of the beast. It is what it is.

 

 

QLE Posted: October 10, 2018 at 06:11 AM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: chris sale, hubris, red soxs

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:07 AM (#5763835)
Hubris as a tag, really? The Astros are a very slightly better team than the Red Sox (109 pythag wins to 103... and the Sox were on pace for more than 110 pythag wins until the last few weeks of the season) and the Sox have home field advantage. Hard to see how the odds aren't at worst something like 45/55.
   2. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5763840)
Hubris as a tag, really? The Astros are a very slightly better team than the Red Sox (109 pythag wins to 103... and the Sox were on pace for more than 110 pythag wins until the last few weeks of the season) and the Sox have home field advantage. Hard to see how the odds aren't at worst something like 45/55.

That makes sense, but I think one of the reasons that most people seem to think the Astros will win has to do with the fact that they've gone 6 and 3 in Fenway Park over the past 2 years. The heart of the Houston lineup has treated Fenway pretty much as a home away from home.
   3. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:39 AM (#5763844)
And I doubt that most people are aware of that irrelevant factlet.
   4. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:43 AM (#5763846)
Oh, FFS. This is ridiculous, even for Sale’s crimson ass. Who exactly are these ‘doubters’ who have so ‘disrespected’ the Red Sox? Neither Sale nor TFA bothers to mention, of course. Has anyone called the Sox anything less than a juggernaut (albeit with bullpen problems) all year?
   5. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:53 AM (#5763849)
The modern athlete does seem to have a deep-seated psychological need to feel doubted.
   6. Lassus Posted: October 10, 2018 at 08:55 AM (#5763851)
Beaten to it by everyone else.

Maybe someone should tell Sale that they doubt the Red Sox have been doubted by anybody. His brain will totally freak out.
   7. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:05 AM (#5763858)
There was definitely a "the sky is falling" vibe locally after game 2. If Sale listened to sports radio I suspect he heard a lot of people talking about how doomed the Sox were. But I think Preserved Fish is right, there is a regular theme for players that "no one believes in us." I find it pretty tiresome but it's common.
   8. Greg K Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:11 AM (#5763860)
Grievance motivates I guess.

I shouldn't judge though. Maybe if I perceived more imaginary doubt around me I'd actually do things.
   9. Zonk just has affection for alumni Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:13 AM (#5763863)
Heh... maybe he was reading the chatter last night and Boston fans in the 9th inning in particular :-)

   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5763864)
Maybe if I perceived more imaginary doubt around me I'd actually do things.
No you wouldn’t.
   11. Greg K Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5763873)
No you wouldn’t.

Oh boy, you'll eat those words when you see how successfully I put the winterized storm windows on the cottage!



Thanks for that, otherwise I'd be stuck here all week.
   12. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:38 AM (#5763879)
I think one of the reasons that most people seem to think the Astros will win has to do with the fact that they've gone 6 and 3 in Fenway Park over the past 2 years. The heart of the Houston lineup has treated Fenway pretty much as a home away from home.

And I doubt that most people are aware of that irrelevant factlet.


You think that most Red Sox fans aren't aware of that? And you don't think they remember last year's Division Series? That sure doesn't square with some of the fearfulness and nailbiting I've seen around here every time Cora makes a questionable platoon move or MLB's 9th best bullpen blows a save.

OTOH I do agree that for the players those past games are irrelevant. I think the Astros deserve to be favored on the strength of their starting pitching and lineup depth, but the 45/55 that Scott mentioned is about all the advantage I'd give them.
   13. jmurph Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:13 AM (#5763891)
You think that most Red Sox fans aren't aware of that? And you don't think they remember last year's Division Series? That sure doesn't square with some of the fearfulness and nailbiting I've seen around here every time Cora makes a questionable platoon move or MLB's 9th best bullpen blows a save.

I was not aware of this but I'm just one fan, with the memory of the guy from Memento.

I'm afraid of Houston because they're really good and their bullpen isn't constructed of paper mache. But yeah, given home field, I'm probably at about 55-45 Houston?
   14. Batman Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:19 AM (#5763897)
Their last two games were in New York, so Sale has a skewed understanding of how many people around the world "doubt" the Red Sox by flipping them off and yelling "Red Sox suck." He has matured over the years. When he was with the White Sox, he got upset when the uniforms started talking to him, so he slashed them to death.
   15. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:20 AM (#5763900)
There was definitely a "the sky is falling" vibe locally after game 2.



There usually is. Losses are magnified, wins are seen as a reprieve until the next failure.

You'd think people would be healed after all these years.
   16. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:41 AM (#5763927)
I honestly hadn't given the Sox Fenway record against Houston a lick of thought and now that I know the record...I'm still not giving it a lick of thought. 9 games spread out over two years is not exactly a big sample. Besides, aren't you the guy who was saying the Sox should be worried about playing in the Bronx after losing the first two games of the series in September? In fairness being an Oriole fan has to be tough.

Houston is a terrific team. The Sox could lose, hell they could get swept, because that happens. Of course the Sox could win and they could sweep. The two best teams in the AL are facing off, it should be fun.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5763932)
You think that most Red Sox fans aren't aware of that?

Not only do I think they're unaware of Houston's 6-3 record in Fenway over the last two years, I think it's strange that you're aware of it, and stranger still that you think anyone else would be.
   18. jmurph Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:44 AM (#5763933)
There usually is. Losses are magnified, wins are seen as a reprieve until the next failure.

You'd think people would be healed after all these years.

Eh, they lost game 2 at home in a way that confirmed many fears- Price didn't have it. Then they're headed to the middle school softball field in the Bronx for two against a team full of power hitters, with two big question marks on the mound for the Sox. It wasn't exactly a formula for confidence.
   19. Joe Bivens is NOT a clueless numpty Posted: October 10, 2018 at 10:59 AM (#5763957)
Then they're headed to the middle school softball field in the Bronx for two against a team full of power hitters


Facing playoff pitching, not the 4th and 5th starters they saw much of the year. That park hurts them as much as it helps them. The Vazquez HR turned out to be the difference. That's 40 feet short of the fence at Fenway.

edit...I know average doesn't mean a lot over a season, but it does when you look at one game. A bunch of .240 hitters don't scare me when they absolutely need to make good contact.
   20. eric Posted: October 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM (#5764034)
That park hurts them as much as it helps them. The Vazquez HR turned out to be the difference. That's 40 feet short of the fence at Fenway.


And, in Fenway, Gary Sanchez would have had a game-ending grand slam.

That whole series reminded me of that old XKCD comic which has a couple sports commentators saying something along the lines of "let's use a random number generator to create narratives!" With men on, Hicks drives a ball into the stands but barely foul, then flies out. I saw a RISP line drive right at the third baseman. Judge had his HRs with the bases empty. Stuff like that happened repeatedly. In a short series, the Red Sox won the "hard batted ball distribution" randomness award.

The only actual narrative that seemed to fit was Stanton looking like a deer in headlights in his first postseason, flailing at anything and everything.
   21. Hysterical & Useless Posted: October 10, 2018 at 12:58 PM (#5764040)
I think it's strange that you're aware of it, and stranger still that you think anyone else would be.


Anything I know must be common knowledge. Stands to reason, don't it?
   22. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5764043)
And, in Fenway, Gary Sanchez would have had a game-ending grand slam.

Well, not exactly, unless Mayor Giuliani** called in New York's finest from down the road and had them declare the Yankees to be the home team.

** We couldn't count on that turncoat traitor De Blasio, who'll probably ask for a Broadway parade for the Red Sox if they win the World Series.
   23. villageidiom Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:05 PM (#5764044)
Not only do I think they're unaware of Houston's 6-3 record in Fenway over the last two years, I think it's strange that you're aware of it, and stranger still that you think anyone else would be.
Concern trolls gotta concern.

I mean, he's acting like it's not just known but determinative. Last year was one 12-2 blowout for Houston, one 10-3 blowout for Boston, and 4 games with each team having scored 15 runs across the 4 games. This year in 3 games Houston outscored Boston 16-12. There's nothing in my memory of the last couple of years that would make me characterize Houston as basically treating Fenway as a second home, and playing around with the numbers doesn't suggest my memory is faulty. Pretty much anything I look at, and anything I can recall, doesn't begin to justify what he's claiming. I can only assume he's just finding a cause to be a concern troll.

Seems odd that he's a concern troll here, given that with Boston being the remaining team from the AL East he surely has switched his allegiance to them from the Orioles Yankees by now.
   24. SoSH U at work Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:08 PM (#5764051)
In a short series, the Red Sox won the "hard batted ball distribution" randomness award.


And Game 3. Random had nuttin to do with that one.

   25. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5764063)
Not only do I think they're unaware of Houston's 6-3 record in Fenway over the last two years, I think it's strange that you're aware of it, and stranger still that you think anyone else would be.

Concern trolls gotta concern.

I mean, he's acting like it's not just known but determinative.


If I thought it was determinative, I wouldn't have added that it was an irrelevant concern for the players. (See #12) Or did you miss that part? The fans don't determine anything.

Seems odd that he's a concern troll here, given that with Boston being the remaining team from the AL East he surely has switched his allegiance to them from the Orioles Yankees by now.

FTR my rooting interest for the 4 remaining Series is this:

LCS:
Brewers over Dodgers. See below.
(sizable gap)
Astros over Red Sox. Love the Tiny Terror Tot and the way Bregman punked the Trump loving scum Bauer.

World Series:
Astros or Red Sox over Dodgers
(big gap)
Astros or Red Sox over Brewers

Call it concern trolling or not, other than Sale and Kelly I like pretty much all of the Red Sox players, and how can anyone not like the Astros, whether or not you're rooting for them in any given game or series?

Same with the Brewers, though they're in the wrong league.

But as for the Dodgers, #### them from top to bottom.

So there.



   26. SoSH U at work Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:26 PM (#5764068)
and how can anyone not like the Astros,


Bregman, Osuna and Gurriel offer a pretty nice Big 3.
   27. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:37 PM (#5764078)
Why Bregman SoSH? You're going to tell me something that's going to make me sad aren't you?
   28. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5764091)
And, in Fenway, Gary Sanchez would have had a game-ending grand slam.

That whole series reminded me of that old XKCD comic which has a couple sports commentators saying something along the lines of "let's use a random number generator to create narratives!" With men on, Hicks drives a ball into the stands but barely foul, then flies out. I saw a RISP line drive right at the third baseman. Judge had his HRs with the bases empty. Stuff like that happened repeatedly. In a short series, the Red Sox won the "hard batted ball distribution" randomness award.


That's hilarious, because Kinsler hit a towering fly ball to basically the same spot as Sanchez, also with the bases loaded, to end the first inning. You can't just focus on what went wrong for the Yankees when you do that kind of analysis. JD Martinez hit a sac fly to the deepest part of Yankee stadium. Etc.

Overall in that game, the Red Sox were 2-7 with RISP, with 10 team LOB, the Yankees 1-5 with 5.
   29. SoSH U at work Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:50 PM (#5764097)

Why Bregman SoSH? You're going to tell me something that's going to make me sad aren't you?


Nothing like the other two. He's just kind of a bro #########, from what I can tell. He
   30. jmurph Posted: October 10, 2018 at 01:51 PM (#5764098)
That's hilarious, because Kinsler hit a towering fly ball to basically the same spot as Sanchez, also with the bases loaded, to end the first inning. You can't just focus on what went wrong for the Yankees when you do that kind of analysis. JD Martinez hit a sac fly to the deepest part of Yankee stadium. Etc.

Also just broadly speaking, that CC's Jamie Moyer impression didn't lead to about 8 runs was a miracle. Deserve's got nothing to do with it and everything, but the right team seems to have won.
   31. John DiFool2 Posted: October 10, 2018 at 03:05 PM (#5764167)
Hubris as a tag, really?


Clicking on it brings up...just this thread.

I wonder what threads would come up if I put in "semprini" as a tag word on a new thread...
   32. PreservedFish Posted: October 10, 2018 at 04:02 PM (#5764237)
I don't think Gurriel is on the same planet as Osuna in dislikability.
   33. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 10, 2018 at 04:17 PM (#5764251)
What was Sale responding to?

I wouldn't be surprised if a journalist asked him what he would say to those who have doubted the team. His answer is pretty rational for such a question.

   34. Walt Davis Posted: October 10, 2018 at 09:44 PM (#5764436)
Were I a Red Sox doubter (I am not, no need to slash my wardrobe Chris), my doubts might center on the fact the Red Sox management apparently had so much doubt in their own bullpen that they felt the need to use Mr. Sale, their scheduled G5 starter I assume, for an inning of relief in G4 with a 3-run lead. That decision strikes this fan as so unusual that it almost suggests desperation on the part of the Red Sox themselves.
   35. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: October 11, 2018 at 01:00 AM (#5764473)
That decision strikes this fan as so unusual that it almost suggests desperation on the part of the Red Sox themselves.

Probably as desperate as the 2017 Astros were, when they used their game 1, and presumptive game 5 starter - Justin Verlander - for 1.2 innings in game 4 of the ALDS.

And look how poorly that worked out for them!
   36. PreservedFish Posted: October 11, 2018 at 01:07 AM (#5764474)
It was his throwing day. No, I don't know what a throwing day is. I presume they throw once between starts.
   37. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 11, 2018 at 02:47 AM (#5764478)
Nothing like the other two. He's just kind of a bro #########, from what I can tell.
So, he's Johnny Damon? It sounds like he's just not wearing the prerequisite laundry to be loved in Boston.
   38. SoSH U at work Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5764519)
So, he's Johnny Damon? It sounds like he's just not wearing the prerequisite laundry to be loved in Boston.



I think the main difference is Bregman is much smarter than Damon.

Bregman has gotten into multiple idiotic and juvenile twitter fights (and not just with Trump fans like Bauer). He also whined this week about the Astros not getting to play at night, just this week. He's not as unlikable as the subject of this thread, Chris Sale, for instance, but I've found most of his act pretty tiresome (and, I'm not the only one who has come to that conclusion here at the BTF). The other 'Stros seem pretty likable, and McCann hasn't had stood in anybody's home run path in a while, so opinion on him seems to have softened.

So, no, it shouldn't sound like that at all.

   39. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5764533)
I like Bregman a lot. Yours is the first time I've seen anyone say anything particularly negative about him (though the idea that I've missed stuff isn't out of the question). The TV scheduling comment is pretty garden variety "the world is against us" type stuff.
   40. SoSH U at work Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:40 AM (#5764550)
Dan Lee linked to this the other day.

Nothing heinous, obviously, but few MLB players actually engage in truly heinous behavior. Just garden variety douchey.

For the record, I like him a lot more than I do Len Dykstra.
   41. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 11, 2018 at 10:46 AM (#5764553)
For the record, I like him a lot more than I do Len Dykstra.

And I'd hope a lot more than you do Trevor Bauer.
   42. perros Posted: October 11, 2018 at 11:11 AM (#5764577)
Grievance motivates I guess.


Trump can rally 'em before the ALCS.

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