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Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Clemens’ trainer saved steroids

And for his next trick—saving Kony!

Walt Davis Posted: May 16, 2012 at 12:31 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: roger clemens, steroids

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   1. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 16, 2012 at 06:54 AM (#4132579)
Aaaaaand a second juror has been kicked out of the jury pool for falling asleep.

As Cleavon Little said, "I likes to keep my audience riveted!"
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4132806)
Hardin's cross of McNamee has been underway since late yesterday afternoon.

From TJ Quinn's twitter feed:

McNamee says #Clemens told him in Jan 04 he wanted to get "huge," asked if McNamee still had "his guy," meaning Radomski.

Hardin: "Mr. McNamee, do you sometimes just make stuff up?" Objection. Rephrase. McNamee: "No, I didn't make it up."


To my understanding, this is the very first time McNamee has claimed to have a conversation with Clemens about PEDs for Clemens after 2001.

Quoting now from the Mitchell Report:

To McNamee’s knowledge, Clemens did not use human growth hormone in 2001. McNamee was not retained by the Yankees after the 2001 season. After that season, Clemens never again asked McNamee to inject him with performance enhancing substances, and McNamee had no further discussions with Clemens about such substances.


I believe McNamee's 2008 committee deposition is consistent on this point. Which means that he now tells yet another version of the story.
   3. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4132808)
And Hardin now making that point:

Hardin: If you told investigators didn't discuss PEDs after '01 and now say you did, were earlier statements mistake, faulty memory or lie?

   4. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4132818)
Hardin: If you told investigators didn't discuss PEDs after '01 and now say you did, were earlier statements mistake, faulty memory or lie?

Could you post the answer, when it shows?
   5. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4132827)
Lassus, Quinn did not tweet the answer.
   6. Russ Posted: May 16, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4133037)
They might be waiting for McNamee to change his underwear after Hardin's question.
   7. Monty Posted: May 16, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4133044)
Aaaaaand a second juror has been kicked out of the jury pool for falling asleep.


Let's go for the record!
   8. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: May 16, 2012 at 02:52 PM (#4133050)
Seat 13: Female. Retiree. Active in effort to get voting rights for District of Columbia. Worked at U.S. Department of Transportation and Bureau of Public Debt. Said her husband told her, upon learning she might serve on this trial, "Get out of it, don't do it!" eliciting chuckle from Clemens.
   9. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:22 PM (#4133076)
Active in effort to get voting rights for District of Columbia.
I think this trial should serve as a sign of why you don't want representation in Congress.
   10. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4133082)
Quinn's feed is painful, because he's a professional writer who doesn't know the difference between imply and infer.
   11. GregD Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:28 PM (#4133084)
I think this trial should serve as a sign of why you don't want representation in Congress.
She should have her voting rights taken away
   12. Chris Needham Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:30 PM (#4133086)
I just read that a THIRD juror nodded off briefly, but not enough to get kicked off the panel.

They may want to dial down the heat, and de-starch the jurors' lunches. Man...
   13. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4133098)
Clearly the jurors need amphetamines.
   14. JDLk Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4133105)
Munson is loving all the great testimony that McNamee apparently gave, all the while ignoring that if the jury is bored or zoning out, there is a real chance they ignore or don't appreciate it (assuming it actually supports the prosecution). Prior to getting suspended, was he any good? Because it is pretty basic that evidence is worthless if the jury is not paying attention to it.
   15. Guapo Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:43 PM (#4133108)
From USA Today:

Seizing in particular on a statement that McNamee said he never "even talked" to Clemens about steroids after 2001, Hardin got McNamee to say that he and Clemens "talked about steroids briefly" at Clemens' home in 2003. McNamee also said Clemens wanted to change his pitcher's training regimen to focus more on bodybuilding in 2004.

McNamee had not testified about those conversations previously. McNamee said: "My recollection (of some events) has improved (over the last four years)."
   16. Guapo Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4133112)
From the AP:

McNamee, who has now spent 12 hours on the stand with more to come on Thursday, alternated between fidgety and focused. At various times he looked curiously at the courtroom ceiling, draped his arm around his chair, or leaned forward to scratch an itchy foot while Hardin was asking questions. McNamee sometimes seemed perplexed by simple yes-or-no questions and stumbled through an answer about his birthday.

Other times, he was more firm and direct. He complained when Hardin asked him a convoluted, multipart question: "Which one do you want me to answer?" ''Pick one," Hardin replied.

Hardin was perhaps most effective when he got McNamee to agree that his memory about events connected to Clemens had improved once McNamee began cooperating with federal investigators looking into steroids and baseball.

"Is it true that ever since you began making these accusations about Mr. Clemens, your memory and versions of what happened and details have sort of evolved?" Hardin asked.

"Yes sir," McNamee answered.

Hardin asked if McNamee had "intentionally lied" to investigators.

"Yes sir," McNamee replied. McNamee testified earlier in the week that he originally minimized Clemens' involvement with performance-enhancing drugs in what he said was an effort to protect the pitcher.

Hardin worked the same angle when McNamee had trouble remembering what was written on the cover of a book McNamee started writing but never published.

"You remember little details all the way back to 1998 ... but you have to have me show you the cover of your book before you know what's on it," Hardin said.

Referencing the easel, Hardin would cite various statements and ask McNamee to put them in the category of "mistake," ''bad memory" or "lie." McNamee conceded to one case of a "bad memory" before court adjourned for the day at noon because of a juror's schedule conflict. McNamee returns to the stand Thursday.

McNamee says he gave Clemens injections of performance-enhancing drugs in 1998, 2000 and 2001. During questions about the 1998 injection, Hardin inadvertently introduced evidence he had sought to keep away from the jury.

McNamee testified that he overheard a conversation between teammates Clemens and Jose Canseco about steroids in the Toronto Blue Jays clubhouse, a conversation the judge had ruled could not be brought up by prosecutors.

Having overheard Clemens and Canseco, McNamee said he therefore was certain Clemens was referring to steroids when Clemens later asked for a help with a "booty shot" in early June 2008. Hardin stressed that Clemens didn't use the word "steroids" and could have been referring to a shot for the vitamin B12. McNamee has said he first injected Clemens with steroids later that month.

McNamee also testified for the first time about a conversation he said he had with Clemens about steroids following Clemens' 2003 season with the New York Yankees. McNamee said that Clemens had planned to retire and "wanted to change his workout program and get bigger." McNamee said Clemens asked, "Do you still have that guy?" who can supply the drugs. Clemens eventually decided to keep playing and returned in 2004 with the Houston Astros.

Hardin was incredulous that McNamee didn't relate that conversation to federal investigators or while being interviewed for the 2007 Mitchell Report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

"Bad memory," McNamee said, adding that nothing ever came of the conversation.
   17. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4133124)
"Yes sir," McNamee replied. McNamee testified earlier in the week that he originally minimized Clemens' involvement with performance-enhancing drugs in what he said was an effort to protect the pitcher.
With friends like that...
   18. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4133137)
"Yes sir," McNamee replied. McNamee testified earlier in the week that he originally minimized Clemens' involvement with performance-enhancing drugs in what he said was an effort to protect the pitcher.

With friends like that...
While this case is primarily an object lesson in governmental abuse of power, I think it offers a secondary lesson - don't enter into long-term personal and professional relationships with bottom-feeding sleazebags.
   19. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4133140)
McNamee testified that he overheard a conversation between teammates Clemens and Jose Canseco about steroids in the Toronto Blue Jays clubhouse, a conversation the judge had ruled could not be brought up by prosecutors.

Having overheard Clemens and Canseco, McNamee said he therefore was certain Clemens was referring to steroids when Clemens later asked for a help with a "booty shot" in early June 2008.


"Overheard" seems a bit strong here, given what McNamee told Mitchell's people:

Jose Canseco was playing for the Blue Jays in 1998. On or about June 8-10, 1998, the Toronto Blue Jays played an away series with the Florida Marlins. McNamee attended a lunch party that Canseco hosted at his home in Miami. McNamee stated that, during this luncheon, he observed Clemens, Canseco, and another person he did not know meeting inside Canseco’s house, although McNamee did not personally attend that meeting. Canseco told members of my investigative staff that he had numerous conversations with Clemens about the benefits of Deca-Durabolin and Winstrol and how to “cycle” and “stack” steroids. Canseco has made similar statements publicly.


From scanning McNamee's deposition, I didn't see where he elaborated on specifically what he heard at the party. But he does seem sure in the deposition that Clemens got a bottle of steroids at the party. Or at least had one at the party.

He is also sure that Clemens was at the party; McNamee claims Clemens showed up later (perhaps after golf) and that Clemens's nanny was there.

FWIW, I believe Canseco provided a sworn affidavit that Clemens was not at the party, which Canseco recalled because he was disappointed Clemens wasn't there.

I don't really know why they're having a hard time proving Clemens was there, if he was indeed there. Maybe we'll see some evidence later, but there were 25-30 people there and you would think at least some of them would remember Clemens there.
   20. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4133145)
"Overheard" seems a bit strong here, given what McNamee told Mitchell's people:
You're mixing up different things, probably because McNamee is inventing new facts.

McNamee testified that he overheard a conversation between teammates Clemens and Jose Canseco about steroids in the Toronto Blue Jays clubhouse
...and...
McNamee stated that, during this luncheon, he observed Clemens, Canseco, and another person he did not know meeting inside Canseco’s house, although McNamee did not personally attend that meeting.
   21. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4133146)
I'm still pretty annoyed no one has sent out an answer to the question in #3. Thanks for the effort, Ray. (And your #13 made me laugh.)
   22. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4133147)
"Yes sir," McNamee replied. McNamee testified earlier in the week that he originally minimized Clemens' involvement with performance-enhancing drugs in what he said was an effort to protect the pitcher.


I guess lying is fine, as long as the later versions you tell further help the government.

But I love how the Mitchell Report tried to create the appearance that all of its helpful witnesses just had to be telling the truth, because otherwise they were subject to prosecution. We see with McNamee that did... not mean that McNamee would tell the truth.

Quoting now from the Mitchell Report:

McNamee, through his attorney, entered into a written agreement with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of California. The agreement provides that McNamee will cooperate with the U.S. Attorney’s Office. No truthful statements can be used against McNamee in any federal prosecution by that Office; if, however, he should be untruthful in any statements made pursuant to that agreement, he may be charged with criminal violations, including making false statements, which is a felony.


Though perhaps McNamee will be indicted any day now.
   23. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4133151)
FWIW, I believe Canseco provided a sworn affidavit that Clemens was not at the party, which Canseco recalled because he was disappointed Clemens wasn't there.
Yes. And the Blue Jays announcers supposedly talked about it -- (EDIT) the fact that Clemens wasn't there -- on air that day. But some kid supposedly has a picture of Clemens at the house or something. Meanwhile, the nanny testified that Clemens was at Canseco's house, but that there was no party there. Which presumably means that he was at Canseco's house at some point, but not during the party. Which would contradict McNamee's testimony du jour, though I'm sure he has a better memory now.
   24. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:17 PM (#4133152)
You're mixing up different things, probably because McNamee is inventing new facts.


Ah. Yes, I did mix that up. Thanks.
   25. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:19 PM (#4133154)
Which presumably means that he was at Canseco's house at some point, but not during the party. Which would contradict McNamee's testimony du jour, though I'm sure he has a better memory now.


And McNamee testified in his committee deposition that the party was the only time he was at Canseco's house.
   26. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4133157)
(And your #13 made me laugh.)


I just thought that since we had a self-confessed drug dealer sitting there, as well as an accused user, the judge could figure out a way past the sleepy juror problem.
   27. Guapo Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4133160)
I'm still pretty annoyed no one has sent out an answer to the question in #3.


I think your answer is:

Hardin was incredulous that McNamee didn't relate that conversation to federal investigators or while being interviewed for the 2007 Mitchell Report on performance-enhancing drugs in baseball.

"Bad memory," McNamee said, adding that nothing ever came of the conversation.
   28. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4133163)
Wouldn't you think that McNamee's lawyers would have gone over the Mitchell Report with McNamee and said, "OK, Brian, here's what you said before, so let's tell that same story now"? If you're in a trial that's basically a he-said/he-said situation, the last thing you want is for the he on your side to be telling an entirely new story.
   29. Lassus Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4133164)
Ah, I did notice that, but I didn't connect it to that specific question. Thanks, Guapo.
   30. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4133167)
Wouldn't you think that McNamee's lawyers would have gone over the Mitchell Report with McNamee and said, "OK, Brian, here's what you said before, so let's tell that same story now"? If you're in a trial that's basically a he-said/he-said situation, the last thing you want is for the he on your side to be telling an entirely new story.
By "McNamee's lawyers," you mean "prosecutors," but yes, definitely. Obviously you're not allowed to tell a witness what his testimony should be -- but you can certainly hand it to him and ask him to review it to refresh his memory in case he's asked any questions about it. And then you prep him extensively.
   31. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4133168)
Wouldn't you think that McNamee's lawyers would have gone over the Mitchell Report with McNamee and said, "OK, Brian, here's what you said before, so let's tell that same story now"? If you're in a trial that's basically a he-said/he-said situation, the last thing you want is for the he on your side to be telling an entirely new story.


The problem is that McNamee tells a (significantly) different version each time he's asked about it. Between what he told the papers at the outset, to what he told the feds initially, to what he then told the feds the next day, to what he told Mitchell's people, to what he said in his staff deposition, to what he's saying now....... The ship on him telling essentially one story left port long ago.

EDIT: But yes, you're right, they could at least make sure he understood what he said before, so that if he tells yet another version at least he knows he's telling it.

I think the problem is that this guy is just constitutionally incapable of telling one story - preferably the truth. Oh, he'll always have "reasons" why he's telling a new version, but the fact is that he's always telling a new version.
   32. dlf Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4133179)
By "McNamee's lawyers," you mean "prosecutors," ...


Isn't McNamee's personal lawyer (Embry?) actively participating in this trial? From Quinn's twitter feed, it appears that an attorney who is not one of the AUSAs was objecting regarding certain divorce records and perhaps other things. Or perhaps that was the former Mrs. McN's attorney.
   33. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:44 PM (#4133181)
Yes, Emery is involved. (And he's McNamee's attorney.)

At one point he objected to a photo on the grounds that it wasn't in evidence, when it... was in evidence.
   34. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4133186)
The problem for McNamee on cross is that Hardin knows better than he does which versions he's told and when he's told them.
   35. Dan The Mediocre Posted: May 16, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4133279)
The problem for McNamee on cross is that Hardin knows better than he does which versions he's told and when he's told them.


That doesn't seem like a situation that would be that uncommon in a trial.
   36. Ray (RDP) Posted: May 16, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4133622)
At this point, every new story McNamee tells almost helps Clemens.

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