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Thursday, July 31, 2014

Cliff Lee Re-Injures Elbow

Press on, Lee.

Cliff Lee walked off the mound during his start against the Nationals today, indicating that he was dealing with elbow discomfort. The veteran has experienced the same injury that just cost him two months — a flexor pronator strain — according to a tweet from MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki…

Lee is owed $25MM next year and his deal includes a $27.5MM club option for 2016 (with a substantial $12.5MM buyout).

The District Attorney Posted: July 31, 2014 at 08:40 PM | 27 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cliff lee, injuries, phillies

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   1. eddieot Posted: July 31, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4762192)
So not only does Amaro give away ridiculous contracts but he also hamstrings himself in every deal with some ridiculous buyout/no-trade clause. There are 30 MLB GMs and I would guess 30,000,000 people that would make a better GM than Amaro.
   2. bunyon Posted: July 31, 2014 at 09:24 PM (#4762198)
What? 30 million? Did we have a nuclear war?
   3. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 31, 2014 at 09:34 PM (#4762204)
By Phillies standards this is good news, since it didn't happen on the first day of a five-year contract extension.
   4. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 09:51 PM (#4762211)
Too bad. Forty years from now old fans are going to say "Yeah, I remember Cliff Lee, he was REALLY good," and younger fans will look at his stat lines and say "wow, I've barely ever heard of Cliff Lee, I had no idea he was that good for a few years there."
   5. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:24 PM (#4762231)
The Phillies would be wise to just accept that they'll pay Lee $37.5 million and let him walk away after 2015 is over, regardless of his 2015 performance or how they *think* he'll do in 2016.

Sadly, though, Amaro will probably pick up the option *this* winter for "cost certainty" reasons.
   6. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:32 PM (#4762233)
Tyler Skaggs walked off the mound tonight too.

Bummer of a night.....
   7. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:34 PM (#4762234)
Too bad, I like Lee, he's good to watch when he's on.

It's ok to give out large contracts at times, but Amaro and his staff just don't seem to have any idea as to how to properly structure a contract or who best to give these contracts to(Howard case in point).
I find it fascinating that in an industry which pays considerably and would draw pretty much the finest talent from legal, finance and management that teams like Oakland and Detroit really seem to get it right most of the time and a team like Philly just has no clue; it's just weird.
As 1 points out, there would seem to be quite a number of professionals who would be more competent then Amaro.
   8. steagles Posted: July 31, 2014 at 10:50 PM (#4762245)
It's ok to give out large contracts at times, but Amaro and his staff just don't seem to have any idea as to how to properly structure a contract or who best to give these contracts to(Howard case in point).

the breadth of amaro's incompetence is really impressive. think about the things that might be important for a general manager and then consider:

amaro is terrible at contract negotiations.
dismissive of analytics and completely unfamiliar with relevant statistics.
completely uninterested in prospect acquisition or the farm system.
not liked and/or respected by his peers.


the worst part is, i'm pretty sure he'll still be employed by the phillies 10 years from now. if ed wade still gets a paycheck from this team, why not amaro.
   9. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:15 PM (#4762255)
the breadth of amaro's incompetence is really impressive. think about the things that might be important for a general manager

you forgot to add:
doesn't know what a plate appearance is
   10. Textbook Editor Posted: July 31, 2014 at 11:54 PM (#4762267)
the worst part is, i'm pretty sure he'll still be employed by the phillies 10 years from now. if ed wade still gets a paycheck from this team, why not amaro.


The Phillies need new ownership, plain and simple. Gillick's few years aside, they've essentially had idiots (Wade & Amaro) in charge for 13 of the past 16 years. Arbuckle saved them early with the drafts that yielded Hamels, Utley, Howard, & Rollins, but basically, ownership has been okey-dokey with complete idiots being GM for almost 13 of the past 16 years.

Look, an idiot who's told he can be a GM is going to not say no; he's going to give it a go, however misguided he may be. The real, true culprit here are the Phillies owners, who appear to be in no rush to fire Amaro, and seem completely out of their depth in the modern world of baseball.

Amaro is an idiot, yes. He should have been fired at least a year ago, yes. He should be fired now, yes. But he's just an idiot cashing the checks that are handed to him. The true evil here is an ownership that has no idea what it's doing.

And, sure, the next owners could be worse than the guy who owns the Marlins. But... they could also be as good as the folks who bought the Red Sox from the Yawkey Trust. Yes, it's a crapshoot, but right now what you DO know is that your ownership sucks and has not one clue about how to run a baseball team in 2014.
   11. steagles Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:08 AM (#4762275)
And, sure, the next owners could be worse than the guy who owns the Marlins. But... they could also be as good as the folks who bought the Red Sox from the Yawkey Trust. Yes, it's a crapshoot, but right now what you DO know is that your ownership sucks and has not one clue about how to run a baseball team in 2014.
this ownership isn't going to sell the team. i'm pretty sure they can't. about a decade ago, bill conlon wrote about the structure of the ownership group and it's pretty clearly designed to be impossible to break up. i'd try to find the article, but i'm not googling conlin.


if you want to, you could probably find it on google if you search "conlin phillies claire betz -childabuser"
   12. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:09 AM (#4762277)
Cliff Lee is the Jose Bautista of pitchers:

Lee:
2002-2007, ages 23-28: 741 IP; 5 WAR
2008-2014, ages 29-35: 1412 IP; 38 WAR

Bautista:
2004-2009, ages 23-28: 2038 PA; 3 WAR
2009-2014, ages 29-33: 2714 PA; 27 WAR


   13. Textbook Editor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:13 AM (#4762278)
this ownership isn't going to sell the team. i'm pretty sure they can't. about a decade ago, bill conlon wrote about the structure of the ownership group and it's pretty clearly designed to be impossible to break up.


Welp... Then I truly feel sorry for Phillies fans. Because the wilderness is not going to be fun.
   14. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4762289)
I wanted the Dodgers to make a deal for this guy. So glad they didn't!
   15. Textbook Editor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:31 AM (#4762290)
This article seems a non-Conlin investigation of the ownership group, FWIW. (From 2010; may not be current info.)
   16. Textbook Editor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:36 AM (#4762292)
This:

Bill Giles hired David Montgomery in 1971 to work in the Phillies' ticket sales office and he later became Sales Director.


Explains everything about the Phillies' approach. They care about how the moves will look to ticket-buying fans, not whether or not a move makes sense in the long-term.
   17. Textbook Editor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:40 AM (#4762300)
Basically, a summary of the article is this: until Montgomery shuffles off this mortal coil, Phillies fans are screwed... And even then they might still be screwed. For a long, long time.
   18. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: August 01, 2014 at 12:55 AM (#4762309)
Edit: wrong thread
   19. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 01, 2014 at 08:48 AM (#4762353)
TextEd -- On top of that, Bill Giles was a promotions guy originally.
   20. AROM Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:06 AM (#4762386)
Cliff Lee is the Jose Bautista of pitchers:


Good comp Ray. Players like that fascinate me. To just be a run of the mill player up through what should be your peak age, to the point where everyone assumes this is as good as it gets, and then just find another level.

Mike Scott was another, although he had a new pitch as an easy explanation. With Cliff Lee it's harder to figure out. Command of all his pitches is what made him great, but how do you do that? How do you get from where he was to what he became? It's not like he wasn't trying to throw quality strikes before.

Fernando Rodney, at a later age and lessor impact, is another one. On the hitter side I can go back to my favorite player, Brian Downing. The WAR isn't so extreme, since early Downing was a good defensive catcher and so was putting up 2-3 WAR seasons while hitting .250 with walks and not much power. Another one with an obvious difference as Downing bulked up, whereas Bautista hasn't changed much and by the standards of MLB is not a big guy at all.
   21. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:10 AM (#4762392)
If you could figure out in advance which nondescript guys would take massive leaps, you'd be well ahead of the game.

   22. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:27 AM (#4762407)
Downing was a steroids guy, so there was an obvious explanation for his leap. I agree that the technique / intangible changes are far more interesting.
   23. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:30 AM (#4762411)
Yeah, Lee flipped some kind of switch in that magical 22-3 season. Up to that point, he'd been about average, a 94 ERA+ pitcher. Then his walks shrunk to nothing (2.2 K/W ratio until 2009, 6.1 since), and he's been good-to-elite ever since.
   24. The Good Face Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:37 AM (#4762416)
Downing was a steroids guy, so there was an obvious explanation for his leap. I agree that the technique / intangible changes are far more interesting.


Yeah, Downing was one of my favorite players, but he basically put on 30+ pounds of muscle around the age of 30. He got much bigger and stronger and his power improved dramatically. I love that Bref lists him at 170 pounds.
   25. Tom Nawrocki Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:38 AM (#4762420)
ownership has been okey-dokey with complete idiots being GM for almost 13 of the past 16 years.


Ownership is probably okey-dokey with five playoff appearances, two pennants, and one World Championship in the past 16 years.
   26. AROM Posted: August 01, 2014 at 10:58 AM (#4762430)
Downing sure gets a lot more accusations than another player who put on muscle through weightlifting at the same time and started hitting homers. A guy who even made it to 3000 hits and the HOF.

I don't know if Downing did anything more than lift. I can say if he did, he avoided* the bacne that has kept Piazza out so far.

*Or at least had some makeup artists touch it up when he appeared on The Jeffersons.
   27. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: August 01, 2014 at 11:10 AM (#4762437)
Downing sure gets a lot more accusations than another player who put on muscle through weightlifting at the same time and started hitting homers. A guy who even made it to 3000 hits and the HOF.


Downing's facial structure changed significantly. Folks (including Bill James) wrote about it at the time, long before steroids witch hunts were a thing.

I mean:

http://img.spokeo.com/public/900-600/brian_downing_1979_06_01.jpg

to

http://baseballcardsoutlet.com/baseball-card.php?cardID=12495

is not a really sweet personal trainer and a paleo diet.

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