Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, November 19, 2012

Clubhouse Confidential: On AL MVP Results

Clubhouse Confidential looks at the AL MVP results and discusses the BBWAA’s responsibility to the top candidates.

Xander Posted: November 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: awards and honors, media, miguel cabrera, mike trout, mvp

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: November 19, 2012 at 01:57 PM (#4306045)
Superb.
   2. OPS+ Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4306049)
Succinctly put. He did an excellent job of dispelling the whole notion of "leading one's team to the playoffs."
   3. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: November 19, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4306072)
Succinctly put. He did an excellent job of dispelling the whole notion of "leading one's team to the playoffs."


Agreed. I know this video won't change a lot of minds, but I think it does a marvelous job of poking holes in a lot of the rhetoric we've heard backing Cabrera's MVP victory without resorting to insults or exaggerations.
   4. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:27 PM (#4306157)
That was really well done. Balanced and strong, without seeming strident or negative.
   5. TomH Posted: November 19, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4306158)
And he does it by turning the stats geel argument around 180! :)


It amazes me the logical inconsistency of many otherwise seemingly intelligent people.

If you really believe that a person whose team did not make the playoffs cannot be the most valuable player, then you have to also believe he cannot be the 2nd, 3rd, or 10th most valuable player. But I know of ZERO voters EVER who insisted on filling out a complete 10-man MVP ballot with only players from 'winners'.

If it ever DID happen, the ridicule that followed would only serve to accentuate the silly notion to begin with that how good your teammates are influences how good an individual's year was.
   6. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 19, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4306227)
If you really believe that a person whose team did not make the playoffs cannot be the most valuable player, then you have to also believe he cannot be the 2nd, 3rd, or 10th most valuable player.


Actually, you can. It depends on how much value you place on whether or not the team would have made the playoffs, given a particular player's absence from the lineup. If you believe, for example, that the Yankees make the playoffs without Cano (a position not without some logic), then you can place Trout above Cano on the theory that neither player was truly essential to his team's postseason chances. (Yes, that requires a few contortions to get to this point.)

-- MWE
   7. JJ1986 Posted: November 19, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4306233)
Actually, you can. It depends on how much value you place on whether or not the team would have made the playoffs, given a particular player's absence from the lineup. If you believe, for example, that the Yankees make the playoffs without Cano (a position not without some logic), then you can place Trout above Cano on the theory that neither player was truly essential to his team's postseason chances. (Yes, that requires a few contortions to get to this point.)


But how can you have Trout above Josh Reddick or Adam Jones then?
   8. Mike Emeigh Posted: November 19, 2012 at 04:46 PM (#4306242)
But how can you have Trout above Josh Reddick or Adam Jones then?


Like I said, it requires contortions to get you there. (Josh Reddick wasn't the A's storyline guy anyway, Cespedes was.)

Seriously, anyone who's applying this argument isn't thinking below the #1 spot on the ballot, anyway. There is a body of the writing public that acts as though the #1 spot on the ballot is the only important spot.

-- MWE
   9. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: November 19, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4306246)
Everyone on Hot Stove this morning was talking about how it's the stats camp that's being totally unreasonable about this whole thing, which I think, it's exactly a fair assessment. If Trout had won, you can bet we'd have an avalanche of vitriol-filled columns about all of these pasty slide-rule-loving geeks. Hell, Cabrera won and look how many columns we've seen about it that deride the stat geeks and their whacky formulas.

Also, it pains me that the same network that employs Brian Kenny also sends a paycheck to Billy Ripken.
   10. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2012 at 07:08 PM (#4306323)
Who decided that sports footage needs to be backed by never-ending guitar solos?

Was it George Michael?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Francis
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMake relievers face more than 1 batter for faster game, more runs | FOX Sports
(228 - 1:22am, Jan 30)
Last: bobm

NewsblogPitchfork: Jack White Gets His Own Baseball Card
(203 - 1:18am, Jan 30)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogTop 100 prospects of 2015 including Kris Bryant, Byron Buxton and more - ESPN ($PAY$)
(25 - 12:48am, Jan 30)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogHow Has BABIP Held Up as Leaguewide Offense Slides Ever Lower? | Banished to the Pen
(29 - 12:46am, Jan 30)
Last: bobm

NewsblogMontreal threat a reminder of how MLB once touted Tampa | TBO.com and The Tampa Tribune
(48 - 12:44am, Jan 30)
Last: DFA

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - January 2015
(1642 - 12:43am, Jan 30)
Last: Howling John Shade

NewsblogRanking baseball's greatest dynasties - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN
(138 - 12:39am, Jan 30)
Last: The Chronicles of Reddick

NewsblogFangraphs: Last Year’s Minor-League WAR Leaders, If That Existed
(11 - 12:22am, Jan 30)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogOmar Minaya to leave San Diego Padres, join MLBPA as special adviser
(1 - 11:53pm, Jan 29)
Last: 'Spos stares out the window, waits for spring

NewsblogOT: Soccer January 2015
(379 - 11:38pm, Jan 29)
Last: The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB)

NewsblogOT - Politics January 2015 - Mario Cuomo, New York Governor and Minor League Ballplayer, Dies at 82
(4122 - 11:30pm, Jan 29)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(11706 - 11:04pm, Jan 29)
Last: booond

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-29-2015
(23 - 10:15pm, Jan 29)
Last: bobm

NewsblogBaseball Prospectus | BP Unfiltered: People Are Currently Reading The 2015 BP Annual And You Could Be Next
(6 - 8:45pm, Jan 29)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogBaseball's Choice: Change or Die | VICE Sports
(27 - 8:14pm, Jan 29)
Last: Rob_Wood

Page rendered in 0.1873 seconds
48 querie(s) executed