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Friday, January 13, 2012

College Football: Postseason Thread

Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: January 13, 2012 at 08:22 AM | 892 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   201. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4049391)
By the way, apropos of everything I've said about Rutgers, you have to feel for FIU losing its coach 3 days before signing day.
   202. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:01 PM (#4049410)
My point is that FIU is on the upswing, Rutgers on the downswing, in part because its conference will likely get demoted.

The talent around FIU is much better than it is around Rutgers. On the other hand, Rutgers has no competition in its own state for such players.

FIU is just building up its program, so its facilities will suck for the time being. Rutgers, on the other hand, is overextended, and won't be improving facilities any time soon.

It's a close call - hence it being a "lateral" move.


It is not a close call. A close call was Randy Edsall going from UConn to Maryland. This is a clear upgrade. Nothing in your post makes much sense. FIU's facilities will suck for the time being? They would have to go through about 3 rounds of upgrade over probably 20 years to even get to where Rutgers is today. And that's just the stadium. Although I cringe when I think about it, Rutgers has also invested mightily in its training facilities. I don't think they have anything like the Hale Center at FIU.

The talent around FIU might be better but good luck to FIU in getting it. Rutgers meanwhile has quietly become one of the top recruiters in New Jersey. They have four four star commits from NJ already this year, with a chance to land Hamilton next week. FIU couldn't sniff a player like that. And forget about New Jersey, Rutgers recruits FLORIDA better than FIU, and has for years. Although they don't go there as much now that they recruit Jersey so well, Rutgers three star Florida players from the 2011 class, DE Jonathan Aiken (Hollywood) and OL Kaleb Johnson (Jacksonville), are both higher ranked recruits than anyone FIU has recruited in its entire history. In 2010 they had several three star players from Florida, including two of the top 100 recruits, among them their starting running back Jawan Jamison, and a four star DB from Jacksonville who was a top 50 Florida recruit.

And how exaclty is Rutgers on the decline? They just finished a 9 win season and have had three straight years of outstanding recruiting.
   203. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:08 PM (#4049414)
Put more succinctly: one of these schools has a very good chance to play in a BCS game the next two years, and it sure as hell isn't FIU.
   204. Sam M. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:09 PM (#4049415)
My point is that FIU is on the upswing, Rutgers on the downswing, in part because its conference will likely get demoted.


That is massively silly. FIU is at least a decade of upswinging away from being close to Rutgers, and now it's going to have to recover from a huge body blow -- losing literally the ONLY coach under which the program has EVER had any success. There is simply no basis for believing that FIU can or will sustain success without Cristobal (and even at that, the success was pretty modest, though impressive given where he started), and until it shows that it can, it is completely speculative to believe they are on a genuine trend up.

Even if the Big East does lose AQ status in a world in which there is still such a thing as automatic qualifiers, it would still be a level well above the Sun Belt. Cristobal was being paid just over $400,000 at FIU. $400,000 Rutgers was paying Schiano 5x as much. This is no lateral move; these are programs on a completely different level.
   205. DA Baracus Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:15 PM (#4049427)
Rutgers meanwhile has quietly become one of the top recruiters in New Jersey.


No, Greg Schiano has. Whether or not Cristobal can keep it up remains to be seen.
   206. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4049434)

No, Greg Schiano has. Whether or not Cristobal can keep it up remains to be seen.


Fair enough, but one of the interesting things about college football is how close these players and recruits get to their direct positional coach or other assistants. Anthony Davis was on Twitter yesterday raving about Kyle Flood (the other finalist) who is Rutgers' OL coach. Most of these guys committed in large part due to connections with guys like Flood, Cignetti, Hafley, and the other assistants.

I give Greg all the credit in the world for turning around Rutgers recruiting. But Mario did a very nice job at FIU and you have to think that with the ball rolling now it will be easier for him to keep the mommentum going. That's my hope anyway. I'm certainly a bit nervous about it, having seen things like the Kragthorpe era in Louisville or what has happened to UConn.
   207. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:23 PM (#4049445)
Even with Rutgers' financial problems and conference questions, its a no doubt step up from FIU. More like 3 steps up. "lateral move" is crazy talk.

Heck, there is a non-zero chance its in the Big Ten in 5 years, though admittedly unlikely. FIU?
   208. DA Baracus Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4049451)
Fair enough, but one of the interesting things about college football is how close these players and recruits get to their direct positional coach or other assistants.


That's a fair point. But considering that Rutgers may lose some big recruits due to Schiano leaving, Cristobal certainly has his work cut out for him. He may fail, he may succeed, but it's too early to tell.
   209. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4049458)
That is massively silly. FIU is at least a decade of upswinging away from being close to Rutgers, and now it's going to have to recover from a huge body blow -- losing literally the ONLY coach under which the program has EVER had any success. There is simply no basis for believing that FIU can or will sustain success without Cristobal (and even at that, the success was pretty modest, though impressive given where he started), and until it shows that it can, it is completely speculative to believe they are on a genuine trend up.


Couldn't the same be said for Rutgers and Schiano?

Ask yourself this. Let's say Rutgers has three rotten seasons, like five win average seasons, coming up. Does it weather that? Does it get a Big Ten or ACC invite? I doubt it. Rutger is in a far more precarious position than many of you realize.
   210. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4049459)
For what it's worth, the Gator "insiders" I sort of trust all seem to think that Darius Hamilton is still choosing Rutgers on Wednesday. Schiano or no Schiano, Rutgers is just a wee bit closer to home for Hamilton than UF (or Miami, which is apparently the requisite third hat at the press conference).
   211. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4049470)
Rutgers is in a somewhat precarious position compared to BCS schools in power conferences. Compared to FIU they are the rock of gibraltar.
   212. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4049473)
Ask yourself this. Let's say Rutgers has three rotten seasons, like five win average seasons, coming up. Does it weather that? Does it get a Big Ten or ACC invite? I doubt it.

Who knows? They followed up a 4-8 season with their best recruiting class ever.
   213. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4049492)
Those who know better, is Cristobal a spread guy? Rutgers is pretty traditionally a pro set offense.
   214. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 30, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4049516)
This recruiting day won't be as fun as before for Alabama. Class is basiscally finished, probably only have room for 1 more, maybe 2. I guess the biggest thing I will worry about is whether Landon Collins flips to LSU or not. I don't think he is, but his mom is being kind of annoying about the whole thing. I will take another #1 recruiting class, now I just got to figure out who Alabama cuts to get the numbers right.
   215. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4049523)
Those who know better, is Cristobal a spread guy?

Yep.
   216. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4049528)
Class is basiscally finished, probably only have room for 1 more, maybe 2.

Nonsense. This is Nick Saban we're talking about.
   217. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4049529)
Ask yourself this. Let's say Rutgers has three rotten seasons, like five win average seasons, coming up. Does it weather that? Does it get a Big Ten or ACC invite? I doubt it. Rutger is in a far more precarious position than many of you realize.

Rutgers is unlikely to get a B10 or ACC invite, so it won't happen if they have 3 rotten seasons. But FIU won't get one even if they go 13-0 for the next three seasons.

   218. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:08 PM (#4049531)
Nonsense. This is Nick Saban we're talking about.


Yeah but now there are like "rules" in place now. Thankfully the ACC doesn't have any oversigning rules so they will get to take advantage of what the SEC implemented. I am sure when the ACC becomes good we will hear about all of their damn oversigning.
   219. Sam M. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4049537)
Couldn't the same be said for Rutgers and Schiano?


No, the same can't be said for Rutgers. Sure, Rutgers had sucked for a long time before Schiano, but they'd also been playing football at Rutgers for a very long time, with some tradition of success. FIU's football tradition was non-existent. The risk for FIU is that it sinks to the bottom of the Sun Belt, never to be heard from again. That risk is genuine, given how hard it is to attract recruits to a bad facility, competing against the approximately 5,000 schools that recruit South Florida, and how uncertain it is they can strike gold twice in a row not what they have to replace Cristobal. The risk for Rutgers is that they return to mediocrity in the Big East, which at worst is going to be C-USA like. What is the risk of that, now that they have hired a guy who has already proven he can recruit successfully in S. Florida? I'd say it's much less. They have better facilities in place, and a proven coach hired (assuming, of course, this Cristobal thing happens).

There really is just no way to measure programs (conference affiliation, athletic budget, facilities, head coach -- you name it) in which Rutgers is not manifestly stronger than FIU.
   220. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:11 PM (#4049541)
Rutgers is unlikely to get a B10 or ACC invite, so it won't happen if they have 3 rotten seasons. But FIU won't get one even if they go 13-0 for the next three seasons.


For some reason, having a 5% chance of it happening versus a 0% doesn't seem like as a big of a difference here. If I had a 5% chance of surviving surgery versus a zero chance, it might.

It's completely plausible that in ten years FIU and Rutgers will be in the same conference.
   221. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:12 PM (#4049542)
Miami seems to be the biggest beneficiary of the oversigning situation. Al Golden obviously can recruit, which apparently entails lying to recruits about upcoming sanctions.
   222. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4049548)

It's completely plausible that in ten years FIU and Rutgers will be in the same conference.


So MC should have hung around FIU for a decade to see what happened? It's also entirely plausible that Rutgers will be in the same conference as Michigan in ten years.
   223. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4049549)
No, the same can't be said for Rutgers. Sure, Rutgers had sucked for a long time before Schiano, but they'd also been playing football at Rutgers for a very long time, with some tradition of success. FIU's football tradition was non-existent. The risk for FIU is that it sinks to the bottom of the Sun Belt, never to be heard from again. That risk is genuine, given how hard it is to attract recruits to a bad facility, competing against the approximately 5,000 schools that recruit South Florida, and how uncertain it is they can strike gold twice in a row not what they have to replace Cristobal. The risk for Rutgers is that they return to mediocrity in the Big East, which at worst is going to be C-USA like. What is the risk of that, now that they have hired a guy who has already proven he can recruit successfully in S. Florida? I'd say it's much less. They have better facilities in place, and a proven coach hired (assuming, of course, this Cristobal thing happens).

There really is just no way to measure programs (conference affiliation, athletic budget, facilities, head coach -- you name it) in which Rutgers is not manifestly stronger than FIU.


I mean, sure Rutgers was great back in 1880, but for the lifetime of pretty much anyone on this board they've been a nonentity in football. UConn's rise I think says more about how bad Rutgers really was than anything - UConn did what Rutgers should have been doing in the decades before.

And you are missing my larger point. It's true that right now Rutgers has more going for it. I don't think that is necessarily so ten years from now. Certainly FIU has not achieved much, but it is still growing. Rutgers has taken 150 years to get to where it is.
   224. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4049550)
Rear Admiral Piazza: when your argument hinges on your claim that in a decade or more FIU might be on the same level as Rutgers, you've lost.
   225. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4049551)
Miami seems to be the biggest beneficiary of the oversigning situation. Al Golden obviously can recruit, which apparently entails lying to recruits about upcoming sanctions.


Miami is pulling a USC from last season. Sign a huge class to get ready for the scholarship reduction.

   226. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4049558)
Yeah but now there are like "rules" in place now.

Meh. Get back to me when they're playing by Big 10 rules.
   227. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4049563)
I mean, if you want to make the argument that UCF is lateral with Rutgers, fine that's an argument you can make. They are pretty much everything you delusionally think FIU is for some reason.
   228. Sam M. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4049602)
Al Golden obviously can recruit, which apparently entails lying to recruits about upcoming sanctions.


If you have any evidence of this, feel free to cite it. Pretty much everything I've seen about Miami's recruiting (and I've followed it pretty closely) indicates that recruits know exactly what's going on, and that the Miami coaches have been candid about the situation. There's been plenty of reference to the USC situation, and the players know how USC got hit. Players are choosing Miami in spite of the likelihood of significant penalties, not in the belief/hope/prayer that such sanctions are not on the way.
   229. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4049723)
Well, looks like Cristobal agrees with RAP after all. Cristobal turns down Rutgers job....
   230. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4049724)
I'm guessing MC turned down the job due to either money or control. TP probably was insisting on staff continuity to save the recruiting class. Things could get real ugly real fast for Rutgers now.
   231. Every Inge Counts Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4049727)
So I guess Flood is going to be the hire? We might have a Flood and a Freeze in the college coaching ranks.
   232. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4049731)
Possibly Flood, but NYT also reporting the Arizona Cardinals WR coach McNulty is in the mix. He was an assistant under Schiano until 2009.
   233. Sam M. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 05:40 PM (#4049786)
TP probably was insisting on staff continuity to save the recruiting class. Things could get real ugly real fast for Rutgers now.


I know we're in the realm of speculation here, but if -- IF -- that is true, it's foolish. As I said upthread, getting the right coach in place for the long term is more important than any one recruiting class. No coach worth hiring would accept the job without the ability/authority to choose his assistants (that was one of the problems for Kragthorpe here in Louisville, although his failure was mostly of his own making -- it didn't help that he was pressed to keep some of Petrino's old staff). Losing out on your best coaching option over the issue of the staff is a bad move, and if it was done to preserve a recruiting class, it was short-sighted.

Again, it's speculative. Maybe Cristobal prefers Miami winters.
   234. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:04 PM (#4049819)
Luicci at the Ledger says "terms and $" were the sticking point. Kinda sad that Rutgers can't afford to lure a coach from FIU.
   235. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4049823)
Sam, I 90 percent agree with what you are saying, but I think this class meant more for Rutgers than for most other schools.
   236. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4049839)
No, in a couple of years, the Big East will be a mid major conference, so it's not like it is a step up in that department. Rutgers' athletic department has overspent. The talent is better down in Florida. It's true, Rutgers has been better recently, but there's no reason for it to stay that way, nor is there any reason to think FIU can't do the same things against the same middle tier competitors.

The one clear plus is that it's a bigger market, and Cristobal can parlay it into a better job down the road more easily.


I understand these points and probably agree in general, if it plays out this way. But right now Rutgers is still better and as long as the Big East remains in the BCS, Cristobal is going to be close to playing in a BCS game....way way closer than he will ever be even if he stays at FIU for a decade.

I can see someone working magic turning FIU or FAU into a top program. But study South Florida and Central Florida, they have nearly a decade head start over the alphabet schools and they still haven't captured any kind of sustained success. Florida is deep in talent obviously, but these aren't SEC schools we are talking about. Not even ACC schools.
   237. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:20 PM (#4049844)
Rutgers is the flagship state university of one of the top recruiting states in the country.


It is above average, even well above, it's still not top tier. Just below. It may or may not be in the top 10. Close.
   238. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4049847)
Rutgers plays in a modern, 50,000 seat stadium with an average attendance of 45,000.


"modern" is more like it. It is comfortable, yes, but it's by no means luxury, brand new or historic in a way that would make you proud. I agree Rutgers>FIU, but frankly, FIU is a lot closer to Rutgers in program stature than Rutgers is to Alabama. That's how massive the gap is there.
   239. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4049849)
Hate to say I told you so, but it looks like money was an issue for Rutgers. I suspect Cignetti is the man. It would be helpful in general if Vivian Stringer gave something like 75% of her salary to the school.
   240. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4049852)
It's a close call - hence it being a "lateral" move.


It's only a lateral move if a coach is choosing to spend his next 10 years in FIU or Rutgers. Even then, Rutgers is just as likely to join a bloated Big Ten as FIU joining a bloated anything.
   241. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4049858)
If Rivals is to be believed, your top recruiting states over the last five years are, in rough order, Florida, Texas, Georgia, California, Louisiana, South Carolina Alabama, North Carolina, and Virginia. Not sure who else is the the top ten (Mississippi?) but it is not NJ.
   242. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:28 PM (#4049862)
Rutger is in a far more precarious position than many of you realize.


I agree with this. While FIU to Rutgers is an upgrade....I do stress my point about FIU<Rutgers<<<<Bama

This might capture Rear Admiral's point better.
   243. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:29 PM (#4049864)
The proof that Miami is spftpedaling the looming probation is that Miami is recruiting well, coaches regularly get kids to believe all sorts of nonsense, and an objective view suggests Miami is looking at a two year bowl ban. Great for Golden, not so great for these kids.
   244. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:40 PM (#4049870)
Hate to say I told you so, but it looks like money was an issue for Rutgers. I suspect Cignetti is the man. It would be helpful in general if Vivian Stringer gave something like 75% of her salary to the school.


You didn't merely say Cristobal wouldn't take the job, you said it was a lateral move.

Rutgers is obviously a better program than FIU, however this doesn't automatically mean a coach would leave FIU for Rutgers. I was on the side Rutgers is obviously better, however it is more in league with FIU than Bama.

The key variables outside of upgrade/lateral move are how long will it take for Cristobal to make an impact at Rutgers with his system? What are Cristobal's real goals long term? (probably not coaching at Rutgers - this is a lethal blow) Does FIU offer Cristobal a platform to work his way to his goals? I say yes, even if it's a clear step down from Rutgers. Then of course you have the pay increase to justify the risk of starting over again.....has to be substantial. Job security is no issue at FIU and he is making his mark there already. The variable none of us see is relations with ADs. If that's not a smooth relationship, I don't think a single step up is enough to overcome weak relations.

Fact is, even at FIU, Cristobal can make his mark, he is already on his way to doing so. You can parlay a Sun Belt/MAC job into a Big Ten or SEC job in the right circumstance. Nobody dreams of ending their coaching career at Rutgers. It's not Bama.
   245. Sam M. Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4049871)
The proof that Miami is spftpedaling the looming probation is that Miami is recruiting well, coaches regularly get kids to believe all sorts of nonsense, and an objective view suggests Miami is looking at a two year bowl ban. Great for Golden, not so great for these kids.


Which is to say, no proof at all. First of all, they already took one year of the bowl ban last year, self-imposing a year out of bowls (which Ohio State failed/refused to do) when they had qualified -- a very smart move when they would have been going to a crappy bowl, which will very likely mean only one additional year out.

Second, it would be idiotic and self-defeating for Golden to soft-pedal anything, since very school Miami is recruiting against will be telling these kids that Miami will be hammered as a reason NOT to go there. Lying, or even gilding the lily, would lead the kids to doubt Golden and hurt, not help, Miami's cause. The far smarter approach is to admit to them that it is likely Miami will get hit with some strong scholarship sanctions over the next 2-3 years, so that they will be almost certain to get playing time (players love that), and that Miami is certain to be bowl ineligible next year (duh), but that is their freshman year anyway (when many of them will be redshirted anyway, and those who aren't, it's still only their redshirt year. In those situations, you just tell them the truth, and you sell them on (a) playing time, and (b) your style of play, and (c) being the foundation of the program. Golden has already built much better relationships with south Florida HS coaches than Randy Shannon had, changed the nature of their summer camp to make it more affordable and accessible, and has a much more hands-on and personable recruiting style. Why is it so unfathomable that these steps would work in the face of sanctions, without it having to be the result of lying? The Miami Herald has covered the investigation thoroughly -- it is unimaginable that the kids he's getting out of Miami, like Duke Johnson and Erick Flowers, don't know what's coming. But they're still going to Miami.
   246. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4049872)
If Rivals is to be believed, your top recruiting states over the last five years are, in rough order, Florida, Texas, Georgia, California, Louisiana, South Carolina Alabama, North Carolina, and Virginia. Not sure who else is the the top ten (Mississippi?) but it is not NJ.


Right. Weekly overstated slightly how fertile Jersey football is. I'd say you can argue Jersey is in the very bottom of the top 10, 9-10. Once you get past NC, the next 5-6 states are some what interchangeable.
   247. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: January 30, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4049874)
The proof that Miami is spftpedaling the looming probation is that Miami is recruiting well, coaches regularly get kids to believe all sorts of nonsense, and an objective view suggests Miami is looking at a two year bowl ban. Great for Golden, not so great for these kids.


I disagree. If you are going to be a RS Freshman, or even a Freshman, few kids would even have played in a Bowl game in year 1 or 2 of their college careers. I know most guys want to play right away, but if you are honest, you know your odds of starting or playing a lot as a true frosh are slim.

You can easily sell these kids that the opportunity to start and play a lot by year 3 (giving some guys 3 years to play in Bowls) in the program is going to be high, since many guys are going to transfer or will get forced out. I think it's an easy case to make.

*Forgot about this: - Makes Miami's job even easier.
Which is to say, no proof at all. First of all, they already took one year of the bowl ban last year, self-imposing a year out of bowls (which Ohio State failed/refused to do) when they had qualified -- a very smart move when they would have been going to a crappy bowl, which will very likely mean only one additional year out.
   248. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:42 PM (#4049912)
Rutgers 4 star ols staying because of Flood.
   249. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 07:45 PM (#4049914)
also still fuller chatter out there re rutgers
   250. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4050023)
"Sources tell us that dollars / contract terms weren't an issue at Rutgers for Mario. He decided he wanted his family to live in Miami."

from "footballscoop", a pretty good dirt sheet. That's not too hard to believe. As Lionofthesenate pointed out, there are lots of reasons why a coach might choose to stay put. Schiano himself turned down Michigan to stay at Rutgers...obviously, Michigan is more than a step above Rutgers. I think Cristobal wants one of the Big 3 Florida jobs and figures (probably rightly) he can get one of them just as easily by staying at FIU, in a place he really wants to be.
   251. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 10:29 PM (#4050025)


Right. Weekly overstated slightly how fertile Jersey football is. I'd say you can argue Jersey is in the very bottom of the top 10, 9-10. Once you get past NC, the next 5-6 states are some what interchangeable.



I won't argue. I'm not really an expert on recruiting and that all sounds right.
   252. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:02 PM (#4050052)
Rutgers 4 star ols staying because of Flood.

Hey, maybe Flood is Rutgers version of James Franklin. I'm surprised they stayed in house and didn't pick Cignetti.

It goes without saying that holding onto highly rated linemen has to be Rutgers top priority right now.
   253. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 30, 2012 at 11:15 PM (#4050064)
I too thought Cignetti was a no brainer, but I'm guessing the thinking is that he is not long for Rutgers.
   254. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 31, 2012 at 08:22 AM (#4050165)
This should be a hell of a signing week!
   255. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 31, 2012 at 08:59 AM (#4050177)
An infromative article about who is the best at keeping recruits in state. It also has a chart that could pass as short hand for which states have recently produced the best top end talent.
   256. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 31, 2012 at 09:49 AM (#4050195)
Pretty amazing that West Virginia is so good and yet the state has not produced a single 4 or 5 star prospect in the past three years.
   257. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4050241)
I'm starting to feel good vibes about Darius Hamilton.


JasonBaumRU Jason Baum
I have a hunch plenty of #RFootball fans will be very happy in less than 24 hours ...
   258. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4050244)
Florida is out of the Hamilton sweepstakes. It's down to Rutgers and Miami.
   259. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: January 31, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4050361)
I think you guys are giving 18 year old kids way too much credit. They like to see scoreboards with their names and hot women on these trips. Florida State hasn't had a good season in a decade and kids are flocking there. For some reason Clemson is popular.

I am sure Golden can claim that we do this or that and you'll start in three years anyway - but these kids want playing time as soon as possible, barring a red shirt year, if only because in their own minds it's three years and the NFL.

So, yes, I think Golden is doing a great job of telling recruits that the NCAA won't hit them that hard. That's the game that is played.
   260. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: January 31, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4050424)
So, yes, I think Golden is doing a great job of telling recruits that the NCAA won't hit them that hard.

I have no idea what Golden may or may not be doing, but if he's telling the kids that, he's not telling them anything unreasonable.

The AD for Miami during the entire time in question was also the Chairman of the NCAA's Committee on Infractions. I may be overly cynical, but I'd be surprised if the NCAA really wants to find out what was going on at Miami during Dee's tenure. They probably lose one more bowl game, a few scholarships- and then the whole thing goes away.
   261. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: January 31, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4050813)
Darius Hamilton!!!
   262. Cowboy Popup Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4050847)
Darius Hamilton!!!

Congrats WJ. Here's hoping this is a sign of things to come.
   263. Sam M. Posted: January 31, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4050863)
They probably lose one more bowl game, a few scholarships- and then the whole thing goes away.


I think you are right on the bowl, but wrong on the "few" scholarships. I think they're going to get hit hard on the scholarships, which is why Golden is stocking up so heavily this year, so he'll have numbers on the roster when the hammer falls in the next three years. Miami has already enrolled NINE players from this year's class, kids who can be counted against last year's limit, allowing him to go way over the normal limit for 2012 with signings tomorrow. That will create a real cushion -- which he is doing precisely because they know the scholarship hit in 2013-14 (and perhaps 2015 as well) is going to be significant.

So, yes, I think Golden is doing a great job of telling recruits that the NCAA won't hit them that hard.


And again, you have no basis for that at all. Golden doesn't have to tell them that -- in fact, he can tell them just the opposite when it comes to scholarships, with the "spin" that this is exactly the reason they should come to Miami. Come here, now, and as long as you perform (which we know you will, you're a stud, kid), you'll get playing time, because unlike at FSU or 'Bama or wherever, we won't be in a position to replace you in the next couple of years. Everything Golden has said publicly -- which he obviously can't contradict in a kid's living room or when he's on campus -- is that they know it might be tough, but they'll live with what comes and deal with it. He hasn't soft-pedaled a single thing, and I would be shocked if he has in private with recruits. Competitors would eat Miami alive if he tried.
   264. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: January 31, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4050868)
Whatever Golden is telling recruits (and he seems like a decent enough guy, so I doubt he's explicitly lying to them), it's working. Florida has spent the last two months or so in a huge lead for CB Tracy Howard, and by all accounts had done the best job recruiting him through the entire process. Well, Golden gets Howard on campus last weekend, and voila, all of a sudden he instantly becomes Miami's to lose.

I don't know what Golden's tactics are, but he's recruiting for a team that's about to hit severe probation, hasn't really been relevant since the early part of the aughts and plays in a mediocre at best conference, and he's pulling in some serious talent. He's getting the numbers Will Muschamp desperately needs, but apparently will dramatically fail to sign, at Florida. I feel like the country could use Golden's talents next time we send a trade delegation to China.
   265. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 31, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4050877)
WJ, I just saw some tweet that Lambert is signing with Rutgers.
   266. Sam M. Posted: January 31, 2012 at 11:20 PM (#4050879)
Florida has spent the last two months or so in a huge lead for CB Tracy Howard, and by all accounts had done the best job recruiting him through the entire process. Well, Golden gets Howard on campus last weekend, and voila, all of a sudden he instantly becomes Miami's to lose.


My favorite Tracy Howard story: apparently, he is really good friends with Duke Johnson, currently the # 1 guy in Miami's recruiting class and Florida's Mr. Football this season. Duke was instrumental in convincing Howard to at least make the visit to Miami, and told him that if he signed, Duke would let him have # 3, the number they both wore in HS (Howard at Miramar, Johnson at Norland). That made a huge impression; Howard said that a guy's serious if he's willing to give up a number he's worn since he was six years old. I have a feeling that if Howard goes to Miami, you can chalk it up to Duke Johnson more than anything Al Golden did or said.
   267. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: January 31, 2012 at 11:31 PM (#4050889)
He's getting the numbers Will Muschamp desperately needs, but apparently will dramatically fail to sign, at Florida.

I don't think Florida's class is anything to complain about... particularly on the heels of such a dismal season.
   268. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 01, 2012 at 01:29 AM (#4050925)

I don't think Florida's class is anything to complain about... particularly on the heels of such a dismal season.


This is, of course, very true. Whatever happens tomorrow, Florida's class is going to rank very well and look pretty good. Especially since the Gators look to have the inside track with Stefon Diggs when he announces in about a week. Granted, that's always true of a UF class, and look at the position they're in right now.

But this is an incredibly important class for Florida, and if fans tend to say that about as often as presidential candidates say "this election is the most consequential in our lifetime," well, it's true in this instance. The Gators were playing with probation-level scholarship numbers last year. We're in desperate need of numbers. About 30 or so, ideally. And it looks likely that Muschamp is only going to sign 22 or 23, and without filling gaping holes in the team's talent base (offensive line, receiver, running back). All of this with large, inviting blank space on the depth chart where other players should be to be offer recruits. And it's not like FSU and Miami have done much recently to dominate the scene.

   269. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 09:55 AM (#4050995)
Ian Thomas flips from Iowa to Rutgers. Gotta love Kyle Flood's twitter. A week ago the class seemed lost!


KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Delon Stephenson - CHOP!
55 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Derrick Nelson - CHOP!
1 minute ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Quanzell Lambert CHOP!
1 minute ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Steve Longa CHOP!
21 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Julian Pinnix-Odrick CHOP!
34 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Ruhann Peele CHOP!
35 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Brandon Arcidiacono CHOP!
43 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Desmon Peoples CHOP!
44 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Ian Thomas CHOP!
44 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Blake Rankin CHOP!
54 minutes ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Chris Muller CHOP!
1 hour ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Carlton Agudosi CHOP!
1 hour ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Davon Jacobs CHOP!
1 hour ago

KyleFloodRU Kyle Flood
Chop!!!!
   270. Sam M. Posted: February 01, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4051038)
Tracy Howard to the U. Lends a whole new meaning to the Great Gator Flop . . . .

Guess Duke Johnson will be looking for a new number.
   271. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4051041)
   272. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4051078)
Good news on the four year schollies. The NCAA needs to do a better job protecting the athletes. Next change should be to make transfers easier.
   273. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4051088)
Man, how the hell did the Canes steal Howard from Florida? It really just boggles my mind, with the sanctions and all.
   274. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4051094)
Then again, doesn't Miami always have awesome recruiting classes? Hasn't returned them to relevance yet. They'll be lucky to beat USF again.
   275. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4051101)
I wonder if the Big Ten offers 4 year academic scholarships?

Alabama has lost 2 guys: Justin Taylor, who was recently in the news was able to find a school and signed with Kentucky.
Casey Gladney, who was apparently going to be academic causality signed with Texas Tech.

Both were 3 stars on Rivals. Gained 4 star Korren Kirven and 4 star Dalvin Tomlinson instead.
   276. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 01, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4051112)
It's already been a slightly better signing day than I expected for UF. Flipping Dante Fowler from FSU was huge, and fills a need for the Gators. As mentioned, whiffing on Tracy Howard was positively galling considering the circumstances, but CB is one of the few positions where UF is in a pretty good place. Brian Poole makes the wound hurt a little less, too.

If Florida can pull Avery Young in the afternoon and Stefon Diggs next week, I'll be satisfied with the class. I'm sure Muschamp will be thrilled to have my approval.
   277. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4051115)
Apparently rumor is that Jameis Winston might flip to Miami...
   278. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4051118)
Dorial Green-Beckham to Mizzou. Love to see a kid stay home.
   279. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4051147)
If that's true about Winston than Al Golden is freakin' schooling UF and FSU today. What's next? He's going to steal D'Vario Montgomery from USF?
   280. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4051152)
Not sure how true it is...but Winston is not going to sign today anyway. I think he plays baseball though....
   281. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 01, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4051203)
TheMarchTo85 Oversigning.com
Iowa, OSU, MSU, PSU, NW, Wisconsin all confirmed 4yr deals; Purdue still offering 1yr renewables.
6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Rittenberg/Bennett
ESPN_BigTen Rittenberg/Bennett
Iowa has confirmed to ESPN.com that it is now offering four-year scholarships.
9 minutes ago
   282. Sam M. Posted: February 01, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4051212)
Then again, doesn't Miami always have awesome recruiting classes?


Not really. They had the # 1 class four years ago (the one led by Jacory Harris), but that class definitely didn't pan out as expected. Since then their results have been solid, at best. Shannon really began to lose his touch (and it didn't help to lose Clint Hurtt, either) -- relationships with HS coaches in S. Florida were not good.

This class is noteworthy not for its quality (Johnson and Howard aside), but its quantity. The players are, for the most part, solid and will give Miami badly needed depth. More important, it is a good indication of the thawing of frozen relationships at a slew of high schools where Miami badly needs to have good connections, from Tampa all the way down to the southern tip of Dade County.

I'm awfully conflicted about Miami flipping Dequan Ivery . . . from Louisville. Damn them.
   283. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 02:35 PM (#4051317)
Should have Andrus Peat's decision at any moment ...
   284. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 02:42 PM (#4051325)
Peat chooses Stanford. Ouch. NU needed him badly.
   285. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4051335)
Pretty incredible O-line that Stanford has signed.
   286. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4051353)
Despite some concern...Landon Collins to Alabama. They should have a top 2 class in most recruiting sites.
   287. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: February 01, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4051499)
ESPN is pathetic. They were fawning all over Syracuse's recruiting class, which blows btw, and saying things like "Now that they are in the ACC they don't even have to try anymore!"

Of course, now that the Big East is likely no longer an ESPN property, they will pimp the ACC school, which by their own rankings are second to last in the conference. I hope the Big East gets a great contract with NBC sports. #### ESPN.
   288. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: February 01, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4051517)
May I just say: bah.

Apparently there's a bit of controversy with Josh Harvey-Clemons, the five star OLB who committed to Georgia over Florida on television today. His family, especially his grandparents, love, love, love UF, and his grandfather (the legal guardian) won't sign Harvey-Clemons' LOI. The family is allegedly having an emotional conversation right now.
   289. Sam M. Posted: February 01, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4051521)
They were fawning all over Syracuse's recruiting class, which blows btw, and saying things like "Now that they are in the ACC they don't even have to try anymore!"


Well, think about it. Makes sense. The ACC sucks so bad, once you go there, you really don't have to try any more. The wins just roll in, don't they?
   290. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4051558)
I will just say I really think the 4 year scholarship idea is stupid....flame away.
   291. Sam M. Posted: February 01, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4051574)
I will just say I really think the 4 year scholarship idea is stupid....flame away.


OK, since you asked so nicely. It is a complete outrage that the current system creates such massively non-reciprocal obligations between the player and the university. If the coach wants to get rid of a player after a year, he's gone. If the player wants to leave and transfer to another school, he has to sit out a year.

As long as the player is tied to the school for four years -- and as long as you can't leave without penalty, you are tied to the school -- then the school should be equally obligated to the player. Period.

The idea of cutting a player -- which is exactly what some of these program do (cough SEC cough) -- treats major CFB programs as if they are NFL teams. And maybe they are, or have become virtually the same thing. But they don't have to be. We can and should make changes that require universities to act like universities. If they want the freedom to cut players, then they should grant players the freedom to leave. So long as you want to limit their freedom to transfer, then give them security in their scholarships, at least as long as they are maintaining their academics. If they aren't keeping up on the football performance side, then tell the coaches to recruit and/or coach better.
   292. DA Baracus Posted: February 01, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4051594)
Good post Sam.

Speaking of Signing Day.... Remember that kid who faked a press conference with offers from Cal and Oregon a few years back? This time he's for real, minus all the hoopla.
   293. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 06:36 PM (#4051607)
Why do players have to sit out a year anyway when they transfer?

I don't disagree with most of what you say to the last part. Again those Big Ten schools do not offer 4 year academic scholarships. I still do not know of any Alabama players that have been cut either though....
   294. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4051646)
I will just say I really think the 4 year scholarship idea is stupid....flame away.

I'll bite: why?
   295. Every Inge Counts Posted: February 01, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4051651)
Auburn and Florida are apparently offering 4 year scholarships now as well.


I would love to see the transfer rule be changed as well. I think it goes both ways, sometimes a school you thought was a fit when you were a high school senior is not the case a year or two later. But again, I don't have a problem with a medical scholarship (which still gives the player a free ride) either,
   296. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: February 01, 2012 at 10:03 PM (#4051704)
Per Dr. Saturday, Stanford has signed *six* O lineman rated four stars or better by Rivals. And here's the Rivals' top 10 according to average stars as opposed total points:

1. USC
2. Alabama
3. Stanford
4. Florida St.
5. Ohio St.
6. Florida
7. Texas
8. Auburn
9. Michigan
10. Oklahoma

Nebraska at 20 by this method.
   297. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: February 02, 2012 at 01:16 AM (#4051789)
Nebraska at 20 by this method


The last time I 'covered' college football recruiting (90s) we were doing a piece on why Nebraska's classes never ranked highly, particularly the OL they would sign. (side note: the one time during the Osborne era they had a #1 or so class, '87 I think...well Leodis Flowers, Mickey Joseph, yuk, nuff said). Anyways, the Bobby Burton types we talked to always talked about how Nebraska would sign a OL from nowheresville, guys that these rivals type guys weren't even following, and they'd go through the whole 'on the one hand, he's a nobody, on the other hand, Nebraska's signing him to play OL, are we missing something?'

I think it wasn't until Billy Callahan's 3rd class did Nebraska finish with a near #1 class since the awful #1 '87 class.
   298. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: February 02, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4051901)
I don't disagree with most of what you say to the last part. Again those Big Ten schools do not offer 4 year academic scholarships. I still do not know of any Alabama players that have been cut either though....


Easy to do when you do it before they sign. See what happened to Darius Philon.

Of course, even Stanford does it. Some kid named Ryan Antoine was quietly told a couple of weeks ago that, after being committed to Stanford since last summer, Stanford no longer wanted him.
   299. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: February 02, 2012 at 11:19 AM (#4051904)
OK, since you asked so nicely. It is a complete outrage that the current system creates such massively non-reciprocal obligations between the player and the university. If the coach wants to get rid of a player after a year, he's gone. If the player wants to leave and transfer to another school, he has to sit out a year.

As long as the player is tied to the school for four years -- and as long as you can't leave without penalty, you are tied to the school -- then the school should be equally obligated to the player. Period.

The idea of cutting a player -- which is exactly what some of these program do (cough SEC cough) -- treats major CFB programs as if they are NFL teams. And maybe they are, or have become virtually the same thing. But they don't have to be. We can and should make changes that require universities to act like universities. If they want the freedom to cut players, then they should grant players the freedom to leave. So long as you want to limit their freedom to transfer, then give them security in their scholarships, at least as long as they are maintaining their academics. If they aren't keeping up on the football performance side, then tell the coaches to recruit and/or coach better.


Of course, in the real world, where there are unpaid internships and few jobs (outside of government work) are guaranteed, a crack at playing football for one year guaranteed might be a good deal.

I do agree that the transfer rule sucks - I can understand not wanting to players leaving for a rival, but other than that, not really.

Given that academic scholarships are usually performance based, it's not clear to me why athletic scholarships shouldn't be performance based also. I think the best middle ground is keep these scholarships on a yearly basis, but allow for transfers.
   300. Rear Admiral Piazza Posted: February 02, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4051959)
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/02/alabama_commitment_darius_phil_1.html

That's the link to a video of Darius Philon at his "signing." He had been informed that morning that, after all, Saban would not be giving him an offer. Philon wound up at Arkansas.

Probably the most shameful part of the episode is Philon's coach, who like most high school coaches in South Alabama is a big Alabama fan, pretty blames the SEC, since they instituted the 25 scholarship limit and all.
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