No serious person can believe the committee will pick the right four teams (*) other than by sheer accident.

Presumably any suit would have be some breach of contract?? With who, the NCAA?

from which one can only infer that their primary motivating factor, by far, was the money a playoff would generate.

According to Curley's email, Paterno participated more than he ever admitted, including likely talking Curley – and thus the others – out of the plan to turn Sandusky over to authorities.

Take a second for that one to sink in.

Are you done whining yet. Really. Go get counseling – might do you some good.

I for one did not molest anyone. Nor did you I suspect. Nor did most of half million Penn Staters (remember ‘We Are’?). So stop with the apologies on behalf of all of us, and stop pontificating as if you know how WE ALL feel.

Seriously, you’re attitude is one of sympathetic guilt over what a sexual predator did. If you feel that strongly about it, dedicate time, money and effort to the cause of victims. Make the world a better place for your angst – I, for one, felt better in the weeks following that POS’s arrest last year by dedicating a few bucks to RAINN…might do you some good too, if you haven’t done so already.

That all said – I come here for football news, and the occasional hoops post by Eric. Not to listen to you go on and on and on about how bad things are. We are ####### Penn State. And that criminal POS will never take that away from me, or anyone who’s good and decent and associated in ways big and small w/ the university.

So…stop regurgitating your conscience on here and move on, please. Thanks. And get better soon.

The Lion Roars No More (1926-2012)

by pennst92 on Jun 28, 2012 7:46 AM EDT reply 6 recs

Has any6one checked on Posnanski lately? I presume it's tough to type while curled up into a fetal position.

There's an awful lot of Posnanski's reputation riding on that book.

"Curley emails Spanier and Schultz, discussing Sandusky's retirement options: "Joe did give him the option to continue to coach as long as he was the coach."

At the press conference, Freeh reiterates again and again that top Penn State officials showed no concern for the safety and welfare of Sandusky’s victims. They didn’t even talk to Sandusky about it. “In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity,” Freeh said.

Freeh said that Paterno received a report from a younger coach that Sandusky had behaved inappropriately with a young boy in a locker room shower, but delayed passing along the information because he did not “want to interfere” with people’s weekend plans. At no time did the officials try to identify the boy, Freeh said.

The Freeh Report concluded that, as many had assumed, Paterno (as well as other administrators) was aware of a 1998 criminal investigation on allegations that Sandusky abused a boy in Penn State locker room showers. While the local district attorney did not prosecute, the Freeh Group condemned Paterno and the others for not setting up further precautions against Sandusky's behavior.
It concluded that Spanier, vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley also knew and did nothing.

This is very PRK of them.

Sandusky's abrupt resignation at a young age does in fact turn out to be linked to the 1998 incident,

What does PRK mean?

What does PRK mean?

I wonder if Posnanski thinks it might be time now to comment again?

This is very PRK of them.

(which, he vaguely suggested, will have the whole story)

Agree wholeheartedly, SBB. I have no idea how any self-respecting alumnus could show up at one of their games this season.

Actually the Freeh Report specifically says that there's no evidence that this is the case. Sandusky's resignation was linked to Paterno telling him that he wasn't going to be Head Coach anytime soon, and that conversation took place before the 1998 shower incident.

He tweeted something the other day to the effect that he'll do his speaking in the book

You would think, right? But if the (small number of) people I know connected to Penn State are anything at all like a general indication of that community, they have barely even stated to seriously come to grips with what what happened there. The level of denial I still see in these people blows my mind.

I just know SMU’s death penalty didn’t slow under-the-table recruiting. What it did was make the reward for pretending to have integrity greater. The Pony Express begat Paterno State. Penn State self-righteously chanted “We Are!” and donated record sums of cash because its football-crazed alums and fan base fell for the myth that Joe Paterno had more integrity than his peers.

He didn’t. He never did.

Well, the latter might not be true. Maybe he did. But big-time college athletics could pervert Mother Teresa. Football and men’s and women’s basketball are so far removed from the alleged goals of college athletics and so invested in the lie of amateurism that it’s impossible for any of their long-term participants to retain the integrity they brought to the games.

A good man can live a lie for only so long before he becomes just a man. That, I suspect, is what happened to Joe Paterno. There was so much money tied to Penn State football that it was easy for Paterno and the Penn State administrators to choose protecting Sandusky over protecting children.

...if Paterno et al had done the right thing and fully reported the 1998 crimes I almost certainly would have gone to a different school,

Out of curiosity .... why?

I went to Penn State for coincidental and almost accidental reasons, and if Paterno et al had done the right thing and fully reported the 1998 crimes

If the only thing I knew about PSU was that they had just fired their child-raping football coach, I don't think we would have even taken the invitations seriously.

I can't get on Paterno for the 1998 thing, as far as I understand it. It was fully investigated and unless Paterno actually pulled strings to thwart any potential indictment (for which I have seen no evidence) then the 1998 thing in isolation is not at all on him.

It is what he did AFTER -- and did not do -- that he gets condemned for.

I think I'm with you, Shooty. The thing that bothers me is that this could happen at any number of big-time programs. Obviously, I don't think Alabama/Ohio State/USC/LSU/Texas/Florida/whatever are harboring child rapists, but the cult-like insularity and utter lack of any sense of proportion is there. Paying even passing attention to, say, signing day makes me feel like I need a shower, and now it's all just becoming too much.

I think you guys are being too hard on Paterno and his program. Yes, Paterno covered up and enabled child abuse and rape, but at least he wasn't letting proamateur athletes get paid under the table for their work! Not on his watch! No sir!

Last November, as the worst month in my alma mater's history unfolded, a Penn State medical-school researcher named Craig Meyers went on the radio to detail a remarkable scientific discovery: He had discovered a potential cure for cancer. It went largely unnoticed, because Craig Meyers is a scientist and because no one associated with Penn State gave a good ####### about science in that moment, because they were enveloped by football.

That's what we are left with now that former FBI director Louis Freeh's damning independent report on Penn State has been released: It is everything the lawyers and flacks and message-board apologists assured us it wasn't. It is a football scandal, it is a Penn State scandal, and it is a fundamental violation of the very Grand Experiment — of the balance between academics and athletics, of the notion that football can elevate a university rather than weigh it down, of the idea that men like Craig Meyers benefit from men like Joe Paterno — that the school had espoused since the 1960s.

It's amazing how people have all the answers when others' flaws are exposed.

It's amazing how people have all the answers when others' flaws are exposed.

It's amazing how people have all the answers when others' flaws are exposed.

Paterno and the others conspired to keep a pedophile out of jail for their own benefit. They did it so they could continue to make money. This is as bad as humanity gets. They knowingly allowed a child rapist to continue raping so that their football team wouldn't get bad publicity.

• Sandusky requested a title to associate himself with Penn State. Paterno wrote "no," but along the sidebar, "Volunteer Position Director – Positive Action for Youth."

My point is, I hear a lot of talking, and not much listening.

My point is, I hear a lot of talking, and not much listening. That goes for all of the issues we're currently facing. Instead of anointing ourselves experts who know exactly how to deal with something as terrible and complex as this, I think we'd be well-served to learn and listen.

To learn and listen to what? How to cover up what a pedophile did for decades?

What was the mindset that caused this to happen, fundamentally? Is it unique to Penn State? Is it unique to major college football? Is it unique to organizations that have a huge figurehead like Paterno? Is it a mindset that's endemic to all different types of organizations, including corporations and religious groups? Is it becoming more prevalent in modern times? If so, why? At what stage of life do people start adopting this mentality? What role can the perpetrators play in helping us figure this out? What do they have to say? What do the victims have to say?

I think a lot of the posters here listened to the Freeh report and are, in fact, reacting accordingly and appropriately.

The Supreme Court royally ###### up in 1984 when it overturned the entirely rational NCAA football TV broadcast limits and structure.

What was the mindset that caused this to happen, fundamentally? Is it unique to Penn State? Is it unique to major college football? Is it unique to organizations that have a huge figurehead like Paterno? Is it a mindset that's endemic to all different types of organizations, including corporations and religious groups? Is it becoming more prevalent in modern times? If so, why? At what stage of life do people start adopting this mentality? What role can the perpetrators play in helping us figure this out? What do they have to say? What do the victims have to say?

Such as?

Such as?

My focus is on the idea that we really know why this happened, fundamentally, and that we know the best way to deal with it.

The Freeh reports states quite explicitly and at least six times (a) that the 1998 incident did NOT involve any criminal conduct--on the part of Sandusky or anyone else--and (b) that Paterno had forced the resignation of Sandusky before the 1998 incident occurred.

The 1998 incident was perceived AT THE TIME to involve no criminal conduct. The May 3, 1998 incident was very, very, very thoroughly investigated by at least four different agencies (University police, state police, and two different child welfare agencies), all four of which issued written reports stating that no criminal event had occurred. In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.

In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.

In retrospect, since the actions were part of a pattern of criminal conduct, it may be said that they were criminal conduct in and of themselves, but no one saw that at the time.

In any case, what EXACTLY is it that Paterno should have done? Fire him again? It is preposterous to argue, in my view, that PATERNO should have taken action after all of the people who were legally charged to take action had thoroughly examined the case and decided that no action was appropriate.

What was the mindset that caused this to happen, fundamentally? Is it unique to Penn State? Is it unique to major college football? Is it unique to organizations that have a huge figurehead like Paterno? Is it a mindset that's endemic to all different types of organizations, including corporations and religious groups? Is it becoming more prevalent in modern times? If so, why? At what stage of life do people start adopting this mentality? What role can the perpetrators play in helping us figure this out? What do they have to say? What do the victims have to say?

I'd love to know all these things. I don't have the answers.

I can also say that my friends and colleagues here are expressing far more wisdom and nuanced thinking about issues of child abuse in society in the wake of this horrible situation than I am seeing from outsiders. Far more than most of what I am reading here at BTF, that's for sure.

the inevitable tiresome sniping at Joe Posnanski

Of course a nuanced discussion would inevitably get into the positive effects of therapy for victims of abuse, and the shine is going to go off Ray's position rather quickly in that case.