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Wednesday, January 09, 2019

College student says she ‘felt harassed’ by Indians pitcher Trevor Bauer on Twitter

A Texas State University finance major hadn’t heard of Trevor Bauer when she chided the Cleveland Indians pitcher on Twitter over the weekend.

Days later, Nikki Giles told USA TODAY Sports she’s been reduced to tears by the barrage of responses from Bauer and some of his 135,000 followers. Giles said she’s reported the harassment to the Indians via the team’s official Facebook page and flagged three of Bauer’s tweets in a complaint to Twitter.

“It has definitely ruined my last three days,” Giles told USA TODAY Sports. “I have cried daily and called my family crying because the first 12-24 hours or so I was getting a lot of hate.”

The more and more I see of Twitter, the more and more I become convinced that it is naught but a hive of scum and villainy…..

QLE Posted: January 09, 2019 at 08:15 AM | 326 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: social media, trevor bauer, twitter

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   201. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 10, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5804235)
Flip.

The most remarkable thing about this site is that in 15 years it hasn't developed the technical capability to deal with threads with comments in multiples of 100.
   202. Zonk Didn't But He'd Do It Again Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:00 PM (#5804240)
The most remarkable thing about this site is that in 15 years


...people remain unfamiliar with this internet thing.
   203. Hot Wheeling American Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:09 PM (#5804246)
Me going away, which I'll certainly do soon


'Heh' - instapundit.com
   204. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5804247)
So you can tell me I'm wrong but since this is my actual business I know that your view while mature is not viable on the internets.


Jim should more easily ban people, but he chooses to do nothing.

But engaging with the trolls, then having long navel-gazing threads arguing about trolls, and the direction of the site, the direction of the internet, solves nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you've done is engage with trolls.

Nothing will change because of this thread. Nothing changes from y'all arguing with the trolls, other than the trolls have won.



   205. Zonk Didn't But He'd Do It Again Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:11 PM (#5804248)
It does not. But as a daily visitor to this site for about 18 years now, I'm confident you won't be able to locate a precipitating event that explains any significant drop in traffic. About the only one I can recall would be the launch of the Yankee Replacement Blog, and the creation of its own game chatters, as participation in the Yankee chats here dried up almost overnight (though many of the regulars stuck around to participate in the daily threads).


Of course you won't.... because as a daily visitor to this site for also about 18 years now... it works and functions pretty much like it did 18 years ago.

That's not a slight against Jim - it's a part-time gig for him and it is what it is - but it's a basic fact of the digital world.
   206. Master of the Horse Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:23 PM (#5804253)
204--You are assuming I am advocating engagement which is not the case. The owner has said to alert him of issues and he will follow through. So hold him to that. That was my point. But ignoring is not a solution. Been proven it's not repeatedly on multiple platforms. That just 'is'.

See this crowd is so jaded and attuned to one another that the coping mechanisms are in place and encouraged. That is unhealthy. And yeah, if purging is not an acceptable solution to the owner then this transition which takes longer and is more tedious is the only other way. But shake off acceptance of what was.
   207. Rally Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:31 PM (#5804261)
The most remarkable thing about this site is that in 15 years it hasn't developed the technical capability to deal with threads with comments in multiples of 100.


I guess I'm a dinosaur but I prefer the way this site deals with comment threads better than the rest of the internet. The 2019 way is if I started from the beginning and wanted to respond to post #18, my response would show up right under #18. And then if others responded to that we'd have a whole bunch under #18.

By having all posts in sequential order I can leave a thread, check back in a few hours or a few days, and know where I left off and what I have to do to catch up. Much harder to do that if new comments could be anywhere. Then there's the indentations that

happen
when
you
have
a bunch
of
subposts.
Stuff
like
that
just
turns
me
off
from
sites
that
operate
that
way.
   208. . Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5804264)
But engaging with the trolls, then having long navel-gazing threads arguing about trolls, and the direction of the site, the direction of the internet, solves nothing. Absolutely nothing. All you've done is engage with trolls.

Nothing will change because of this thread. Nothing changes from y'all arguing with the trolls, other than the trolls have won.


Status envy much?
   209. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5804282)
Before this gets locked, I'll second that OTP is a godsend for someone like me who doesn't care for political flame wars. Also, holy ####, YR showed his whole ass there.
   210. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:57 PM (#5804283)
I guess I'm a dinosaur but I prefer the way this site deals with comment threads better than the rest of the internet. The 2019 way is if I started from the beginning and wanted to respond to post #18, my response would show up right under #18. And then if others responded to that we'd have a whole bunch under #18.

Oh, I completely agree there. I also hate having to click "Show previous comments" 20 times in order to see the first comments on a thread. I am probably alone in this but I much prefer scrolling down long pages than clicking the same page multiple times.

I just find it funny that 15 years later, we still have to post "Flip" every time a thread gets to 100, 200, 300, etc. comments.
   211. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 10, 2019 at 03:59 PM (#5804285)
i don't mind the flip issue, given that we get simple formatting these pages otherwise have
   212. Hysterical & Useless Posted: January 10, 2019 at 05:46 PM (#5804315)
I addressed a mixed-gender group of senior citizens as "guys" then it was the same as if she called me that)


That is just insane. When I was in college--I'm saying, before you were born, Blastin--"guys" was a gender-neutral term. Girls used it talking among themselves ("What are you guys doing tonight?"). The notion that referring to a mixed-gender group with the term "guys" is somehow sexist or insulting doesn't even rise to the level of antediluvian thinking. It's just ####### ignorant.
   213. Hysterical & Useless Posted: January 10, 2019 at 05:49 PM (#5804317)
Oh, and on the page issue, yes, the way things are here is so much better than all those nested replies. I love being able to read a long thread in order. You want to respond to post #27 when we're at post 245? Use the quote button. Easy-peasy.
   214. John DiFool2 Posted: January 10, 2019 at 07:03 PM (#5804349)
Huh--all this time I always thought the flip thang was just a long-standing tradition type of thing, not a workaround for a software bug.
   215. base ball chick Posted: January 10, 2019 at 07:37 PM (#5804360)
hello boys

the intarnetz have proven to me that there is a whole LOT of misogyny out there

there are a whole LOT of males who will jump all over females with threats of murder and rape, or wishes that someone else would do the murdering and raping - when the female appears vulnerable in some conversation

this particular college student appeared not to know who it was she was getting into a flame war with - and him having a whole lot of followers who like the fact that he does all the ############# they wish they could do - she might could have had really Big Ovaries of Steel, but she was gonna have some serious trouble flaming back all the douches that were piling on her. there are very few females that can flame back like any man and dish it out as good as they get it

the old margaret atwood quote comes to mind

oh yeah - yr has been out of the closet with his racism for years
   216. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 10, 2019 at 08:16 PM (#5804374)
the intarnetz have proven to me that there is a whole LOT of misogyny out there


Thank you for weighing in. I don't think it's a coincidence that what really set Bauer off was being compared (very graphically) to a 16-year-old girl.
   217. base ball chick Posted: January 10, 2019 at 08:43 PM (#5804378)
sigh

i don't think it's a coincidence neither
   218. Omineca Greg Posted: January 10, 2019 at 11:39 PM (#5804412)
the old margaret atwood quote comes to mind

This one?

“What’s with her?” says the painter.

“She’s mad because she’s a woman,” Jon says. This is something I haven’t heard for years, not since high school. Once it was a shaming thing to say, and crushing to have it said about you, by a man. It implied oddness, deformity, sexual malfunction.

I go to the living room doorway. “I’m not mad because I’m a woman,” I say. “I’m mad because you’re an #######.”

― Margaret Atwood, Cat's Eye


Or this one?

I avoid looking down at my body, not so much because it’s shameful or immodest but because I don’t want to see it. I don’t want to look at something that determines me so completely.

― Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid's Tale


Or...maybe this one?

Canadians are fond of a good disaster, especially if it has ice, water, or snow in it. You thought the national flag was about a leaf, didn't you? Look harder. It's where someone got axed in the snow.

Margaret Atwood


I don't think that was the one.

Must be this one then?

Helen of Troy Does Countertop Dancing

The world is full of women
who'd tell me I should be ashamed of myself
if they had the chance. Quit dancing.
Get some self-respect
and a day job.
Right. And minimum wage,
and varicose veins, just standing
in one place for eight hours
behind a glass counter
bundled up to the neck, instead of
naked as a meat sandwich.
Selling gloves, or something.
Instead of what I do sell.
You have to have talent
to peddle a thing so nebulous
and without material form.
Exploited, they'd say. Yes, any way
you cut it, but I've a choice
of how, and I'll take the money.

I do give value.
Like preachers, I sell vision,
like perfume ads, desire
or its facsimile. Like jokes
or war, it's all in the timing.
I sell men back their worse suspicions:
that everything's for sale,
and piecemeal. They gaze at me and see
a chain-saw murder just before it happens,
when thigh, ass, inkblot, crevice, ###, and nipple
are still connected.
Such hatred leaps in them,
my beery worshippers! That, or a bleary
hopeless love. Seeing the rows of heads
and upturned eyes, imploring
but ready to snap at my ankles,
I understand floods and earthquakes, and the urge
to step on ants. I keep the beat,
and dance for them because
they can't. The music smells like foxes,
crisp as heated metal
searing the nostrils
or humid as August, hazy and languorous
as a looted city the day after,
when all the rape's been done
already, and the killing,
and the survivors wander around
looking for garbage
to eat, and there's only a bleak exhaustion.
Speaking of which, it's the smiling
tires me out the most.
This, and the pretence
that I can't hear them.
And I can't, because I'm after all
a foreigner to them.
The speech here is all warty gutturals,
obvious as a slab of ham,
but I come from the province of the gods
where meanings are lilting and oblique.
I don't let on to everyone,
but lean close, and I'll whisper:
My mother was raped by a holy swan.
You believe that? You can take me out to dinner.
That's what we tell all the husbands.
There sure are a lot of dangerous birds around.

Not that anyone here
but you would understand.
The rest of them would like to watch me
and feel nothing. Reduce me to components
as in a clock factory or abattoir.
Crush out the mystery.
Wall me up alive
in my own body.
They'd like to see through me,
but nothing is more opaque
than absolute transparency.
Look--my feet don't hit the marble!
Like breath or a balloon, I'm rising,
I hover six inches in the air
in my blazing swan-egg of light.
You think I'm not a goddess?
Try me.
This is a torch song.
Touch me and you'll burn.

Atwood


Yes.

That must be the one.
   219. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: January 11, 2019 at 12:14 AM (#5804420)
Huh--all this time I always thought the flip thang was just a long-standing tradition type of thing, not a workaround for a software bug.
It is. There's nothing keeping people from reading the end of a previous page. It's just a thang.
   220. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: January 11, 2019 at 12:33 AM (#5804425)
I guess I'm the only person here who's glad that both YR and Blastin are around, even if they don't seem too fond of one another. Does that make me a virtue signaler or a vice signaler or both?

And sometimes I'm even fond of snapper. Not sure why, but I am anyway. I'm sure that's reciprocated. (smile)

But Trevor Bauer is best responded to by Rashiba Tlaib, who knows a worthless motherf*cker when she sees one.
   221. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 11, 2019 at 12:47 AM (#5804428)
[219] If a thread is left with an exact multiple of 100 comments and somebody goes there by hitting the last button on hot topics, then no comments show up.
   222. akrasian Posted: January 11, 2019 at 12:48 AM (#5804429)
Oh, I completely agree there. I also hate having to click "Show previous comments" 20 times in order to see the first comments on a thread. I am probably alone in this but I much prefer scrolling down long pages than clicking the same page multiple times.


Another site I frequent - Rams On Demand - has it where if you're a member and you are logged in - if you leave a thread and come back later, you go right to the first post you had not yet read. So no searching through a thread to get back where you were. I do not know how technically hard that is. It is a lower traffic site than this.
   223. Howie Menckel Posted: January 11, 2019 at 01:10 AM (#5804430)
[219] If a thread is left with an exact multiple of 100 comments and somebody goes there by hitting the last button on hot topics, then no comments show up.

yes. the 'flip' is kind of like grabbing the worthless ring on the carousel, giving the next one up a chance at the brass ring. we're a selfless bunch here.
:)
   224. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: January 11, 2019 at 02:00 AM (#5804433)
[219] If a thread is left with an exact multiple of 100 comments and somebody goes there by hitting the last button on hot topics, then no comments show up.
You're right. But if you're in an interesting thread, and you have to leave when it's at 95 posts, and when you return it's at 135, you're going to see what posts 96-100 were, aren't you? There's nothing stopping you from reading the final posts on a page.
   225. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 08:02 AM (#5804448)
The guys is important to some. I've seen some women get annoyed by it when used on them. I've seen women use the term on other women as well. In the service industry I've seen most companies try to train it out of people. Usually to no avail. Just yesterday in a pre con meeting three or four of our management team referred to two women meeting planners as guys when welcoming them and talking to them.
   226. base ball chick Posted: January 11, 2019 at 08:41 AM (#5804453)
ominica greg

wow - those are some seriously awesome quotes and she does indeed really capture what it is to be a female in a sea of males

but the one i was thinking of

- men are afraid that women will laugh at them
- women are afraid that men will KILL them
   227. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 08:44 AM (#5804456)
[219] If a thread is left with an exact multiple of 100 comments and somebody goes there by hitting the last button on hot topics, then no comments show up.

Right. Not only do no comments show up but there's no link to go to the previous page with the last comments (i.e., 201-300 or 401-500). So you have to go to the first page of comments and then click through to the last page. Not a problem on shorter threads but it's a mild inconvenience on long threads like the dearly departed OTP or some of the other OTs. Hence it's easier to just do a "flip" post.
   228. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 08:53 AM (#5804459)
And sometimes I'm even fond of snapper. Not sure why, but I am anyway. I'm sure that's reciprocated. (smile)

Yeah, Andy, I'm fond of you in a "crazy uncle" sort of way.
   229. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 08:59 AM (#5804461)
but the one i was thinking of

- men are afraid that women will laugh at them
- women are afraid that men will KILL them


In the pre-historical environment where most human evolution occurred, those two things probably weren't that different. I'd imagine that a man who was humiliated in front of the women in his group wasn't going to last long. He was likely to be shunned, and to be shunned was to die.

It's the same reason why cowardice is such a hot button issue for men. BITD when you had to stand in line with your spear and shield, to prevent your tribe from being wiped out, your children killed, and your women carried away, running away was a death sentence. If your tribe survived you'd be killed or shunned. So, men have this tremendous fear of being a coward, or branded a coward. They fear death, but they also fear not being able to overcome their fear of death.

Not saying the situation is good, but there's a reason.
   230. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:05 AM (#5804465)
Good morning pumpkins. Whine about anything fun yesterday?

You should have quit while you were ahead. You're really not exactly right about everything, you know.


When someone can prove me wrong I will cheerfully admit it. This is the internet, not a thesis defense. I have no larger ulterior motive beyond my interest in fairness and veracity.
   231. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:10 AM (#5804468)
telling "white people" to shut up is way more racist than anything I've ever said about World Star.

Oh is this that line of thinking that says "mentioning the word white is racist?"


No. I don't know how you could come to that conclusion either, unless you weren't particularly interested in dealing in good faith.

But let's get the white people out of the discussion and replace "white people" with "Jews". "just shut up, for once, Jews." That doesn't strike you as, hmmmm, a wee bit bigoted to single out a group for exclusion based on their genetics?
   232. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:11 AM (#5804470)
ooh, is this the politically correct version of "Try saying that to my face instead of over the internet"?

What's your real name?


There are at least 5 Primates I've met in person and who know my real name. So my reply is, "Try asking me to my face instead of over the interent."
   233. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5804475)
But let's get the white people out of the discussion and replace "white people" with "Jews". "just shut up, for once, Jews." That doesn't strike you as, hmmmm, a wee bit bigoted to single out a group for exclusion based on their genetics?


He actually made this comparison.

For anyone else reading, I'm assuming you all know the difference between snarking at white guys (I said guys, not people) and discriminating against Jews. White men aren't (forget the legality, but just practically) a protected or targeted class.

You can frame it as "white men, allow others to have space" if you wanted something more eloquent than "shut up." But you're not helping your own case.

We are rapidly approaching the point where I'm arguing with fools and people from a distance can't tell who is who, though. So either Jim can take care of him or whatever. But I'm done.
   234. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:18 AM (#5804476)
YR routinely makes OTP comments and goads Blastin with racist posts.


Baloney. I don't think anyone even brought Blastin's purported race to my attention until very recently. I don't know yours either, so if I make a joke about the Guamish I don't want to hear you crying "But my momma was from Guam!"

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and you can find me half-a-dozen examples of something you say I do routinely to a poster I don't actually recall ever interacting with. I don't think you can, and that's only partially attributable to the awful search function feature.
   235. Lassus Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:19 AM (#5804477)
When someone can prove me wrong I will cheerfully admit it.

Thanks, XKCD meme.

No one's going to prove your opinion wrong, so you probably should have just said that instead.
   236. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5804481)
People should ignore him when he does this.

Cannot agree man. Evil festers when good people do nothing


I've been upgraded to Evil! I wonder how much street cred that will buy me at the next Superrvillain Convention on Skull Island.

Professor Slaughterman: "Hey you're new here, what's your deal?"

YR: "Made a joke about World Star Hiphop."

Professor: :/
   237. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:23 AM (#5804482)
FWIW my take on the YR shtick is the anti-religion stuff, particularly the anti-Catholic stuff, is real but the racial cracks are an act, much like liberal Carroll O'Connor playing the Archie Bunker character, just dialed up to 11.

Does that make it better or worse?


Someone ask snapper (who of course has me on ignore, like the delicate lad he is) if he thinks what I say about religion is more or less sincere than what he himself repeatedly has said about Islam being savage and uncivilized. If you want me I'll be over here on the fainting couch.
   238. BrianBrianson Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:29 AM (#5804484)
That is just insane. When I was in college--I'm saying, before you were born, Blastin--"guys" was a gender-neutral term. Girls used it talking among themselves ("What are you guys doing tonight?"). The notion that referring to a mixed-gender group with the term "guys" is somehow sexist or insulting doesn't even rise to the level of antediluvian thinking. It's just ####### ignorant.


If you're a linguistic prescriptivist (for instance, if you're French, like the woman in the story), the fact that "guy" is gender neutral in the second person plural, but no other cases, is going to drive you insane. As an anglophone, of course, I love it as a symbol of English being a nonsensical filthy peasant language. An anglo who wishes they spoke latin ain't one to flippin' like it, of course, they'd probably cuss you out over the singular they, the split infinitive, and whatnot. Ignore such people.
   239. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:33 AM (#5804488)
Back in the day it really wasn’t about standing in line with a spear. That’s a relatively modern tactic and thus would not show up as a evolutionary trait. Plus standing in line with a spear is too far removed from standing in front of your children protecting them. Most battles almost all the way up to the 19th century involved two armies clashing and one quickly falling a part and fleeing. That is a big part of the reason why Roman civil wars were so lethal. You had two armies that were so well trained they didn’t break and flee instead they would just grind it out against each other until just a few were left standing.

In terms of hardwiring it is about men almost always being the protector and supplier of food and you can’t be a coward if you want to bring back enough calories for the group or keep them from harm.
   240. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:39 AM (#5804492)
Back in the day it really wasn’t about standing in line with a spear. That’s a relatively modern tactic and thus would not show up as a evolutionary trait.

Don't agree. I'm not talking about the Macedonian Phalanx. Hunter gatherers would line up and face each other and exchange thrown spears and arrows. It wasn't very bloody combat, and in a sense was ritualized. But if enough of your tribesmen didn't show up, and the other guys actually thought they could wipe you out, it would certainly turn nasty.

In terms of hardwiring it is about men almost always being the protector and supplier of food and you can’t be a coward if you want to bring back enough calories for the group or keep them from harm.

This is a good point too.
   241. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:43 AM (#5804494)
Yeah, YR is a open bigot. I've been saying that for years.

Yup. He's made racist comments about Asians before too. I called him out on it once, and he responded with the same kind of sarcastic defensiveness.


If there's a group I've singled out more than the Irish I'd like to see the evidence. And even then I acknowledge and respect their cultural contributions like James Joyce and the Leprechaun movies.
   242. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:46 AM (#5804496)
purported race


Hey people, am I black? I might just be claiming it.
   243. Greg Pope Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:46 AM (#5804497)
the fact that "guy" is gender neutral in the second person plural, but no other cases, is going to drive you insane.

"You guys" is basically just "Y'All", if you're not from the south. Other languages have a different pronoun for singular and plural second person, but English doesn't. So we get the workarounds.
   244. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:47 AM (#5804498)
Hey people, am I black? I might just be claiming it.

I mean, I haven't seen your Ancestry.com DNA test, but yeah.

BTW, you still haven't blocked YR? I'm surprised.
   245. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:48 AM (#5804500)
I’m all for trying to change the bigots whose hearts are full of hatred, but....well “whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.”

This guy has been hating on Christians and POC for years here, from what I gather. It might be time to, ya know, shake the dust from our feet, and click that ignore button.


This is probably as good a time as any to remind you oh-so-sensitive types that I've previously offered to leave the site voluntarily if a total of 5 regular posters asked me nicely. This was, of course, in response to the same sort of dishonest and transparently self-serving accusations against me as in this very thread. So it isn't as if I haven't been a fair dealer here.
   246. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:48 AM (#5804501)
According to my DNA I’m 1 percent west African. Am I black?
   247. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:48 AM (#5804502)
"You guys" is basically just "Y'All", if you're not from the south. Other languages have a different pronoun for singular and plural second person, but English doesn't. So we get the workarounds.

The proper form is "Youse", pronounced like fuse. But, if you don't want to sound like a Bowery Boy why not just say "You all"?
   248. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5804503)
According to my DNA I’m 1 percent west African. Am I black?

No. Next question.
   249. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:49 AM (#5804504)
If you're a linguistic prescriptivist (for instance, if you're French, like the woman in the story), the fact that "guy" is gender neutral in the second person plural, but no other cases, is going to drive you insane. As an anglophone, of course, I love it as a symbol of English being a nonsensical filthy peasant language. An anglo who wishes they spoke latin ain't one to flippin' like it, of course, they'd probably cuss you out over the singular they, the split infinitive, and whatnot. Ignore such people.


I mean, yeah, I got her ass thrown out but I still say "guys." Though I've come to say "folks" more often now, because I think it works well. That and "people." Like in the comment above.
   250. Greg Pope Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:51 AM (#5804505)
I guess I'm a dinosaur but I prefer the way this site deals with comment threads better than the rest of the internet. The 2019 way is if I started from the beginning and wanted to respond to post #18, my response would show up right under #18. And then if others responded to that we'd have a whole bunch under #18.

By having all posts in sequential order I can leave a thread, check back in a few hours or a few days, and know where I left off and what I have to do to catch up. Much harder to do that if new comments could be anywhere


Just in case Jim is reading this and considering a change, I agree with this. When I've tried to go to the forums here, I just get lost. How are you supposed to follow all of the threads there? I get that on the mainland that a single article can have multiple things going. But it's easy enough to follow because people quote what they're talking about. On the forums you have to go back and read every post to see if anyone's commented on it since the last time you've been there.
   251. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:51 AM (#5804506)
Re 240 That’s still a relatively modern tactic not something that would create a trait through evolution. The evolutionary trait on display there is one that was developed long before that which put simply is puffing out your chest and acting tough to deter actions against you.
   252. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5804507)
I mean, yeah, I got her ass thrown out but I still say "guys." Though I've come to say "folks" more often now, because I think it works well. That and "people." Like in the comment above.

For a while my team was all female, so "guys" seemed really dumb. I would say "ladies" instead. Now, we've added a guy, so I've got to go back to something else.
   253. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5804508)
BTW, you still haven't blocked YR? I'm surprised.


The fact that you're all pushing back with me makes it sort of fun. Aside from, like, being actually being killed, if you have a racist moron, it can be fun in a sad sort of way, because you can feel some solidarity. He's not going to change, but it's nice to feel the support.

Also I'm bored.
   254. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5804510)
Re 240 That’s still a relatively modern tactic not something that would create a trait through evolution.

You think tribes never tried to steal food and women from others? Humans haven't changed that much.

Even if it were simply raiding, the defenders have to mass quickly and stop the raiders. Guys who don't show up are going to be branded.
   255. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:53 AM (#5804511)

I mean, I haven't seen your Ancestry.com DNA test, but yeah.


Neither have I. I know there are things other that black in there (my mom's family is very light skinned, and we were slaves, so....).

I'm not sure I really want to see it. I do know my last name is English in origin, and that there's a street in the small area of South Carolina (where my dad's ancestors lived, and by lived I mean, were forced to live) named LastName Farm Road, which makes me think I should go down there, but GoogleEarth tells me it's just a street in a random area and I wouldn't learn much. I'd probably be sad, though.
   256. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:54 AM (#5804512)
The fact that you're all pushing back with me makes it sort of fun. Aside from, like, being actually being killed, if you have a racist moron, it can be fun in a sad sort of way, because you can feel some solidarity. He's not going to change, but it's nice to feel the support.

Also I'm bored.


Fair enough.

I'm impressed you've been able to keep your cool so well, and not lash back. Kudos.
   257. BrianBrianson Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:55 AM (#5804514)
According to my DNA I’m 1 percent west African. Am I black?

No. Next question.


You can't say that without knowing the other 99%. What if they're 99% east African?
   258. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:55 AM (#5804515)
Just double checked and it isn’t west African but Cameroon, Congo, and southern Bantu peoples. So central-south African
   259. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5804516)
Neither have I. I know there are things other that black in there (my mom's family is very light skinned, and we were slaves, so....).

I'm not sure I really want to see it. I do know my last name is English in origin, because it's, well, it's just a man's first name.


I wouldn't bother. They seem really unreliable to me. Mine keeps changing.

My mother showed up as 100% Slavic, my dad as 75% Italian, but they've now got me as 75% German, but says their my mom and dad. So?????
   260. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:58 AM (#5804517)
So central-south African


You missed a chance to say SOUTH CENTRAL.

I'm impressed you've been able to keep your cool so well, and not lash back. Kudos.


Therapy is helpful for anger. I tend not to lash out beyond "shut up white guys." Because it doesn't get me anywhere. If I'm THAT mad I take a walk or, time permitting, I run.

I used to be really Mad Online back in like 2010, 2011. And I tend to think being Mad Online is symptomatic of much deeper issues, like the ones I had (and still have though now I have coping mechanisms).
   261. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 09:59 AM (#5804518)
You can't say that without knowing the other 99%. What if they're 99% east African?

I've seen him at the softball game. He's not black.
   262. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:00 AM (#5804520)
I wouldn't bother. They seem really unreliable to me. Mine keeps changing.


Yeah, and what am I gonna do anyway? "Oh, I see we were supposedly taken from Ghana in 1743. I shall go to Ghana and meet my cousins!"

It's not like my (annoying) friends who took a test and decided to visit every country in Europe their families had ties to. Doesn't really work the same way.
   263. BrianBrianson Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5804522)
I don't think it's all that meaningful for sensible people of European descent. When I went on my honeymoon, one of my uncles somehow came up with the name and address of a "relative" who I'd never met, nor (I think) even met anyone who'd met him. Indeed, when my uncle explained how we were related, I did a little math and figured that I was about as closely related to him as I'd expect to be if I'd knocked on a random door in Glasgow. I think my uncle must've found this guy via some online geneology nonsense.

Needless to say, I didn't visit the guy.
   264. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:08 AM (#5804523)
Yeah, and what am I gonna do anyway? "Oh, I see we were supposedly taken from Ghana in 1743. I shall go to Ghana and meet my cousins!"

It's not like my (annoying) friends who took a test and decided to visit every country in Europe their families had ties to. Doesn't really work the same way.


It's not really any different for people with European ancestors who came a long time ago. My Italian side all came in the 1890s and didn't keep in contact with anyone. I've been to Italy, but there's no one to see.
   265. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:10 AM (#5804525)
In that sense, sure. I meant there is a lot less pain involved, generally (not talking about other genocides/etc because they weren't relevant in my friends' cases).

In the sense of it being a long time ago, yeah. But in why my family ended up here (and even why my mom's family is light skinned at a time when that wasn't, you know, legal), it's not fun.
   266. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:11 AM (#5804527)
Re 254. Evolutionary traits have already been hard wired in by that point. Much like saying getting laughed at now is viewed as detrimental. The lining up or not lining up is not the trait that created the hard wiring.
   267. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5804530)
Re 254. Evolutionary traits have already been hard wired in by that point. Much like saying getting laughed at now is viewed as detrimental. The lining up or not lining up is not the trait that created the hard wiring.

You think evolution stopped 50,000 years ago?
   268. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:14 AM (#5804532)
In that sense, sure. I meant there is a lot less pain involved, generally (not talking about other genocides/etc because they weren't relevant in my friends' cases).

Yeah, on my Polish side (where my Mom actually has some cousins in Poland and Russia) there was a lot of pain. Different type of pain. The whole family got sent to Siberia twice, my Grandfather's father and brother were killed, one set of cousins went through the siege of Leningrad, don't know how many died.

   269. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5804533)
I’ve been to Italy twice and I think each time I’ve been told to visit family I’ve never met and the previous generation either met once or talked to in the phone once. Needless to say I did not visit them out of the blue.
   270. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:16 AM (#5804535)
154- All I know from my side is that in seemingly every thread, that poster somehow finds a way to denigrate Christians. No matter the topic, he’ll just pop in for a drive-by pot shot at men of faith.

Can't your saved self and your all-powerful God take a little ribbing from a desperately little heathen?


There's also the thing about turning the other cheek.
   271. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5804538)

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and you can find me half-a-dozen examples of something you say I do routinely to a poster I don't actually recall ever interacting with. I don't think you can, and that's only partially attributable to the awful search function feature.

Here's the last time we had this conversation. Not interested in having it again. Maybe this is only the second time you've made a post like this to Blastin, but I doubt it because like I said I immediately predicted it.
   272. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:19 AM (#5804539)
I think most scientists will tell you what you think as evolution is not. Again what you are assuming are actions that are creating evolutionary traits are actually actions that display traits already hardwired into people. Fight or die wasn’t developed 3000 years ago. There is simply no possible way any species didn’t select for this tens of thousands of years before that.
   273. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:21 AM (#5804540)
245: Please leave. You are sowing discord.
   274. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:22 AM (#5804541)
I think most scientists will tell you what you think as evolution is not. Again what you are assuming are actions that are creating evolutionary traits are actually actions that display traits already hardwired into people. Fight or die wasn’t developed 3000 years ago. There is simply no possible way any species didn’t select for this tens of thousands of years before that.

I'm not talking about 3000 years, I'm talking about 50,000 or 75,000 years. People were already living in tribes, and those tribes were sure as hell fighting and killing each other.
   275. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:23 AM (#5804542)
There's also the thing about turning the other cheek.

Doesn't mean you have to go back the next day to get slapped again.
   276. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5804547)
Yes and before that they weren’t living in tribes. Working within a society and civilization were developed after fight or die. Fight or die is like one of the first traits selected for. Those creatures that lacked the innate ability to protect themselves and their offspring were weeded out long before anything resembling a human was walking on the earth and certainly well before anything resembling a civilization came about.

If a set of humans have a ritual then the evolutionary trait that is possibly behind it was developed long before that.
   277. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:29 AM (#5804550)
There's also the thing about turning the other cheek.

Doesn't mean you have to go back the next day to get slapped again


Well, damn. Jesus forgot to clarify that, I guess.

   278. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:31 AM (#5804554)
Yes and before that they weren’t living in tribes. Working within a society and civilization were developed after fight or die. Fight or die is like one of the first traits selected for. Those creatures that lacked the innate ability to protect themselves and their offspring were weeded out long before anything resembling a human was walking on the earth and certainly well before anything resembling a civilization came about.

If a set of humans have a ritual then the evolutionary trait that is possibly behind it was developed long before that.


Humans have always lived in groups. There was never a time modern humans or Neanderthals live individually or in couples. Most apes live in groups. Those groups have always competed. If you don't think evolution happened along the 100,000 years of human tribal existence, I can't help you.

If an ape or human doesn't live in a social unit, the male has no incentive to protect his offspring. Heck, he doesn't even know who his offspring are.

The imperative for a male to protect the women and children has to be a social trait.
   279. BrianBrianson Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:32 AM (#5804555)
Evolution can be pretty fast. Humans have been living in villages for ~10k years. We've definitely been evolving towards being more successful at it. How? That I can't answer, and likely neither can you.
   280. Davo cant be eatin thirty hot dogs every day Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5804558)
In the pre-historical environment where most human evolution occurred, those two things probably weren't that different. I'd imagine that a man who was humiliated in front of the women in his group wasn't going to last long. He was likely to be shunned, and to be shunned was to die.

It's the same reason why cowardice is such a hot button issue for men. BITD when you had to stand in line with your spear and shield, to prevent your tribe from being wiped out, your children killed, and your women carried away, running away was a death sentence. If your tribe survived you'd be killed or shunned. So, men have this tremendous fear of being a coward, or branded a coward. They fear death, but they also fear not being able to overcome their fear of death.


But Christ changed all this—He ended the Law of Violence and replaced it with the Law of Love. And all men know it, but some choose to ignore it. Chalking up this wretched behavior to mere evolution is a cop-out. The Creator gave us rationality—we are not rocks or cows, we can choose how to live. And so many choose to live solely for themselves, worshiping violence, domination, and power. It’s a sad choice. But it *is* a *choice*.
   281. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:35 AM (#5804559)
Well, damn. Jesus forgot to clarify that, I guess.

He didn't. See the verse Davos quoted in [142]

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet.
   282. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:36 AM (#5804560)
Christ changed all this—He ended the Law of Violence and replaced it with the Law of Love. And all men know it, but some choose to ignore it. Chalking up this wretched behavior to mere evolution is a cop-out. The Creator gave us rationality—we can choose how to live. And so many choose to live solely for themselves, worshiping violence, domination, and power. It’s a sad choice. But it *is* a *choice*.

Christ changed the moral law, how we should act. He didn't change the hardwired negative traits; the impact of the Fall remains.
   283. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:38 AM (#5804562)
the impact of the Fall remains.


I'll say. More reissues are apparently coming out this year, & a 10-disc live box showed up last month.
   284. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5804563)
Here's the last time we had this conversation. Not interested in having it again. Maybe this is only the second time you've made a post like this to Blastin, but I doubt it because like I said I immediately predicted it.


Is it sad that other people have to remind me of the racism that happens to me when it doesn't involve actual slurs?

I basically forgot the fact that an old woman told me I didn't "belong" in her neighborhood... when I was standing across the street from my own high school, until something reminded me of it.

I think because I grew up with a high standard of living that I tend not to dwell on these things, but maybe I should. In my future research (have begun a doctorate), I plan to focus on race, mental health, and education, and I hope something useful can come of it.

Being a black boy in many (many many many) white schools (and spaces) has a lot of benefits (those were some great schools) but only in the past year have I recognized the damage gritting my teeth for three decades (it was fun to be told by classmates I was an "affirmative action special") has done to my psyche.

This has been, Justin's corner.
   285. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:42 AM (#5804565)
But let's get the white people out of the discussion and replace "white people" with "Jews". "just shut up, for once, Jews." That doesn't strike you as, hmmmm, a wee bit bigoted to single out a group for exclusion based on their genetics?

He actually made this comparison.


Gets a little uncomfortable when you switch the group around doesn't it.

For anyone else reading, I'm assuming you all know the difference between snarking at white guys (I said guys, not people) and discriminating against Jews. White men aren't (forget the legality, but just practically) a protected or targeted class.


I like this caveat because it really lays bare the emptiness of your entire line of argument. "OK LEGALLY white people are a protected class, but c'mon, who cares about that!"

You can frame it as "white men, allow others to have space" if you wanted something more eloquent than "shut up."


Still racist but at least less obnoxious. This is really a plea for "separate but equal" isn't it? You have your space, and...well you can't actually demand separate space for white people can you? That's Lester Maddox stuff.
   286. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:42 AM (#5804566)
Is it sad that other people have to remind me of the racism that happens to me when it doesn't involve actual slurs?

No. I think it shows you're well adjusted. Why should anyone focus on the people who hate them?
   287. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5804567)

When I had the occasion to go to Poland for work, I went a few days early and visited Auschwitz, the Jewish museum in Warsaw, and well as Krakow which is at least in the region where some of my ancestors came from. That was a fascinating trip despite being painful (even though my ancestors all came to the US before WW2). Also visited the Holocaust memorial when I was in Berlin. But I've never had that much interest in trying to track down the towns in Eastern Europe where relatives actually came from. (I'd like to visit some of those places just as a tourist, but tracking down the street in Romania where my maternal great-grandparents lived just doesn't have much appeal.
   288. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:46 AM (#5804570)
purported race

Hey people, am I black? I might just be claiming it.


You can confirm we've never met, right? This is the internet. There's another poster here who insists he's a very-serious-and-in-demand-superlawyer despite....well, just read his posts. Over on Reddit it's a running joke that everyone who writes, "As a black person I think..." is actually white.
   289. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5804572)
I finally blocked him. It gets boring after a while, even if I'm bored outside of the discussion.


Honestly, maybe it's an arrogant thing to say, but when it gets to a point where I genuinely know I'm a lot smarter than someone, it gets pointless.

I'm obviously more liberal than many of you, but I was talking to a more conservative friend at an alumni event last night, and it's just sort of annoying discussions across ideological lines are basically garbage throwing.

I would happily sit down and go back and forth with, I dunno, a Charles Murray (I don't care how much experience he has, I can match up with him). But Internet Expert Racist YR? Pass.

Sorry if this wasted everyone's time. It got stuck in my craw, I scratched an emotional itch.
   290. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5804576)
There's also the thing about turning the other cheek.

Doesn't mean you have to go back the next day to get slapped again

Well, damn. Jesus forgot to clarify that, I guess.


He worships a god of lawyerly caveats and unprovable exegesis.
   291. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5804577)
[279] One example of modern evolution: for a long time humans had been evolving bigger heads for more brain storage and narrower hips for better bipedal movement. This hit a wall thousands of years ago because any further developments meant a head that could not fit throughh the birth canal. Now that C-sections are common, these evolutionary trends have restarted.
   292. BrianBrianson Posted: January 11, 2019 at 10:53 AM (#5804578)
But Christ changed all this—He ended the Law of Violence and replaced it with the Law of Love.


Someone has never lived in the perpetual orgy that is Bonobo society. ;)
   293. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:04 AM (#5804587)
Honestly, maybe it's an arrogant thing to say, but when it gets to a point where I genuinely know I'm a lot smarter than someone, it gets pointless.


That's great. If there's one thing we've learned from the reign of Fat Donnie it's that you can know when someone is smarter than you because they'll tell you.

“My IQ is one of the highest — and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure; it’s not your fault.”
   294. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5804588)
I'm obviously more liberal than many of you, but I was talking to a more conservative friend at an alumni event last night, and it's just sort of annoying discussions across ideological lines are basically garbage throwing.

Hey, if nothing else, this thread brought one of our most liberal Primates and one of our most cosnervative together in common cause. That's something :-)
   295. Blastin Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:05 AM (#5804589)
I see he's still talking. What is he talking about, people?
   296. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:06 AM (#5804590)
(shhhh tell him it's revenue sharing!)
   297. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5804591)
I see he's still talking. What is he talking about, people?

I'm blissfully unaware.
   298. McCoy Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5804594)
Re 278

You’re focusing on a chicken or egg thing and I’m telling you it happened before the chicken or the egg. Humans didn’t spontaneously decide to gather together. If you want to say all humans live in groups that is fine but whatever precursor of humans is what developed the ability to live and work within a group.
   299. JustMe Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5804601)
This is like an alt-right website at this point. Sorry Blastin. You're right and they're awful.

I see you YR, McCoy, and (period).
   300. . Posted: January 11, 2019 at 11:36 AM (#5804614)
White men aren't (forget the legality, but just practically) a protected or targeted class.


Except this isn't close to true, and has become laughably untrue in the last five years or so.

This is like an alt-right website at this point. Sorry Blastin. You're right and they're awful.


LOL.

Virtue signaling? What virtue signaling?????
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