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Baseball Primer Newsblog— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand
Thursday, October 25, 2007
Hey…how come Charles “the evil genius of an evil administration” Colson isn’t a Yankee fan?
And this lifelong Red Sox fan could not be happier, because this is more than a feel-good underdog story. It is sweet vindication for an organization that dared to run its business as if what it believed were true. You see, their recent rampage is not the only thing that sets the Rockies apart. The Rockies are the first major league sports franchise organized on specifically Christian principles.
That does not mean that the Rockies only sign Christian players. General Manager Dan O’Dowd told USA Today that while he knows “some of the guys who are Christians,” he “can’t tell you who is and who isn’t.”
...With all the news these days about steroids, cheating, and felony arrests, modern-day pro sports needs a story about the good guys. And athletes need the reminder that it is possible to excel both as a player and as a human being—that character counts. And as for this Red Sox fan, well, I am going to be happy however the series turns out.
Repoz
Posted: October 25, 2007 at 11:33 PM | 98 comment(s)
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1. unemployed Jeff Posted: October 25, 2007 at 11:55 PM (#2593702)With all the news these days about steroids, cheating, and felony arrests, modern-day pro sports needs a story about the good guys. And athletes need the reminder that it is possible to excel both as a player and as a human being—that character counts. And as for this Red Sox fan, well, I am going to be happy however the series turns out.
Will he be happy if it turns out that three or four key players on each team are using PEDs, or corking their bats, or loading up the baseball, or getting busy with teenage girls on road trips, or piling up DWIs? People really want to think that they know the players personally, and can tell who the "character guys" are. But the truth is we haven't got a clue, and religion doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.
Last year the Rockies went public with the news that the organization was looking for players with "character." And according to team management, "character" means players who have chosen Jesus as their personal Lord and manager. "We're nervous, to be honest with you," Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said at the time. "It's the first time we ever talked about these issues publicly. The last thing we want to do is offend anyone because of our beliefs."
Rockies chairman and CEO Charlie Monfort took it further, saying, "I think character-wise we're stronger than anyone in baseball. Christians, and what they've endured, are some of the strongest people in baseball. I believe God sends signs, and we're seeing those."
or this:
Behind the scenes, they quietly have become an organization guided by Christianity — open to other religious beliefs but embracing a Christian-based code of conduct they believe will bring them focus and success.
Being a prick is less a function of one's faith community than of one's desire to be in charge. At least, that's what this lapsed Catholic thinks.
These teams would end up looking a lot alike since a baseball team run on x-principles is still trying to get the best baseball players it can. Maybe they pass on Elijah Dukes but then lots of teams would pass on Elijah Dukes. Besides its not even clear that passing on Elijah Dukes, or anyone else for that matter, would be the "Christian" thing to do. So, in the end, its just a bunch of guys making decisions just like every other team out there.
They might look alike but they would not elicit the same "What a feel-good story" reaction from the media.
Nah. They'd elicit different feel-good stories.
The story about the Muslim team would play up how Islamic thought was compatible with and even encouraged playing hard-nosed winning baseball; how the players were ordinary folks just like the rest of the players in the league; and how mainstream Islam was basically perfectly compatible with modern American life. Assuming they didn't do something dumb like name themselves the Jihadis or go off on angry rants about the Israeli-Palestine conflict, they'd get utterly lionized as a shining example of the majority of Muslims and a stark contrast to the suicide bomber/al-Qaeda stereotype.
The story about the atheist team would be played for comedy. You'd have spots with guys like Doug Glanville (if he's an atheist, I have no idea) talking about the principles that they thought were important, and then shrugging and admitting that they pretty much wanted the same players everyone else did. Jayson Stark would probably write it, and throw in a lot of one-liners and slightly arch amusement, but it'd basically boil down to a "ha, those wacky atheists -- they're just like us!" kind of story.
And I don't think many Americans find atheism funny. I think they find it bad. I definitely see boycotts in that hypothetical team's future.
The atheist team would get treated as comedy in the Talk of the Town section of the New Yorker, maybe.
Where have you been reading all of these feel-good stories about the Rockies' and their efforts to create a Christian atmosphere (outside this one, which is in the Christian Post)? The most recent one linked here was a cynical look at the Rockies' practice. Moreover, the Rockies front office really only made the one set of comments about their push for a Faith Based Clubhouse, last year, which suggests they've either abandoned the practice, or that the reaction wasn't as feel-goody as you're claiming.
As for me, the players' gesture to the Coolbaugh family wipes out any hard feelings I might have held.
NY Times and on the radio.
Limbaugh is pretty mainstream these days, sadly.
I'm about half-kidding and half-serious. Which is par for the course.
But I don't think there's anyway in the world that a team run under Muslim principles would be viewed positively or that an atheist team would be viewed humorously.
Well, I think you're mistaken, although I'm prepared to admit that it could be the part of the country I live in. Sure, some people would flip out -- mainly the people who've made a career out of flipping out. But I think the chances of a positive piece on a Muslim or atheist team running on ESPN.com, CNN, the New York Times, or Time Magazine -- to pick one major sports news outlet and three major general news outlets -- would be quite high. I wouldn't expect to see a puff piece on Fox Sports, but youneverknow.
i wonder how they justify violating the Fourth Commandment every week by working on Sunday.
I would think that playing on Easter would be considered wrong. In the religion i was brought up in, we could not work or play on our holiest days (just ask Sandy Koufax about that one).
I would think that it would be an awful powerful witness to their belief if they decided to obey all of the tenants of Christianity, not just the easy ones.
But one of the more popular Canadian sit-coms is about a mosque in a small prairie town. "Little Mosque on the Prairie" oddly enough. There was a little bit of, "will people want to watch a show about muslims" before it got started but it's been quite successful.
Like I say, not really sure if that's relevant
Fortunately for you, we will never find out if this is actually the case.
Is there even a single Muslim player in baseball? Basketball would be the sport that might be able to pull something like that off.
I'd like to see a team constructed by Voodoo principles.
For 12 years, 400 million I'll bet A-Rod will start facing Mecca when he prays.
That would also mean the end of any endorsement money.
Hey man, Muslims eat tacos, too.
I've always wondered about that. Why are there Muslims in football and basketball but not baseball?
Along similar lines, there are former NFL and NBA players who went into acting playing non-athletic roles, but I can't think of any former MLB players. Chuck Connors maybe, but he was nowhere near as good a baseball player as Jim Brown was as a football player.
There aren't too many baseball players who were as good a baseball player as Jim Brown was as a football player.
Jim Bouton was in The Long Goodbye.
Part of it is where you find your international talent. Not too many Muslims in latin America. I don't know of any black baseball players who convert to Islam though, while you have a few in the NBA.
Two of the greatest centers in history were Muslims, Abdul-Jabbar and Olajuwon.
Hmm. Is Olajuwon the only NBA Muslim who was born into it? (Maybe Luol Deng?)
I've always wondered about this. There are a ton of NFL players who became actors.
There's a decent number -- Braun, Youkilis, Marquis, Ausmus, Kinsler, Green, Hirsh, (is Kapler still around?)
I can't think of any NBA players. ("Airplane" doesn't count; he was playing himself.)
But he was also in Game of Death (whether or not that was "acting" is debatable).
Also, I'm sure Kareem played a bodyguard to Burt Reynolds' nemesis in one of those bad mid-70s cop movies (Gator? White Lightning?), but IMDB has no record of it. I know I'm not hallucinating this, as I have a clear memory of a sight gag involving Kareem driving a car with his head sticking up through the sun roof. Does anyone else remember that?
edited to add.
In fact, didn't he retire early in order to concentrate on acting?
Yeah. They called it the BAA back then. There's a list somewhere of two sport players. Where is it? I was thinking about this earlier today for a possible article or something.
Yes he was. As was Drysdale.
I believe you're referring to Lou Gehrig's wonderful turn in 1938's Rawhide, playing ... Lou Gehrig!
seriously, I saw this on some documentary about Gehrig. Apparently he was talked into doing a movie by some shyster agent who thought he should be more of a pop-culture icon like Ruth. Let's just say it didn't turn out so hot.
Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
In any case, Jim Lefebvre is not the only recent one, as the afore mentioned Wes parked did more than just the cameo on BB. He had actual roles on Emergency, Police Story, Police Woman, and a few others. About the same resume as Jim Lefebvre.
Guess it flew under my radar. But if that's the best we can come up with, we've got more baseball players than basketball players.
I would call that an athletically-related role. (He <u>was</u> eight miles past terrible.)
Yeah. His list is pretty good, but also a reminder we have a long, long way to go, don't we?
Stunning that it came from kevin, isn't it? You'd have never seen that coming.
Naw, he showed no creativity at all with his choice of font.
I guess it shows you have to have brain damage to be an actor.
Wow, 59 might just be the most offensive post in the history of BBTF. Quite an accomplishment.
Stunning that it came from kevin, isn't it? You'd have never seen that coming.
This is funny on so many levels.
They would probably play only when it was...sunny.
Correction: That is the most offensive post in the history of BBTF.
Edit: you now have to imagine me pointing at all and sundry like that giant robot on Fox NFL.
Tampa Bay's closer, al-Reyes, of course.
Islamic Sharia Law sure sounds like fun, don't it?
Well Boots is a better source on this, but yes, I believe the Rockies made the one set of statements, and have since gone mum on the topic. It hasn't stopped folks from either side of the religious divide from revisiting the subject using the year-old remarks. That's why I questioned the whole "feel-good" story part. If it were generating so many good feelings, why hasn't the Rockies' FO been beating its chest about it? I seriously doubt they've been born again again. Or is it unborn again.
Sure. Khalil Greene. Say what?
9. Home plate must be re-oriented to face Mecca.
"I wasn't trying to show up the pitcher. I was simply giving praise and glory to Allah."
Sorry, but I guess I'm not getting why all sorts of ethnic and religious jokes are still quite socially acceptable, but #59 is the most offensive thing ever posted on this site. And it's not as if I like kevin or anything.
is the original source Colson is using for this the same USA Today article that's been recycled about the Rockies for over a year now?
Yep. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
I'm not sure, either, but then again, I'm not a Muslim.
It wasn't very funny, and it wasn't the most respectful thing of all time, but I hear jokes about Catholicism that are a lot more offensive than that, all the time.
Oh, good grief. kevin made a tasteless joke post about Islam in baseball; there're nasty things said about Christians on BTF every day in complete seriousness without generating these kinds of recriminations. Would he get anything other than MBS if he'd made the same joke using repugnant acts from Leviticus or from the history of actual Christianity -- rather than from Islam?
I don't remember his name, but that Great American Card Flipping book featured a player from the 1940's who went on to become a successful actor. He was a regular on one of the soap operas for years.
Do you guys really not see the difference between a bunch of Americans mocking their own religion (or at least the majority religion of people in their country, and a religion whose ethos is everywhere around them) and making hateful comments about a religion which is an oppressed and vilified minority in America?
As to the comments about Christians getting hassled here, that is true--there is some snideness about Christianity here, but there are also any number of articulate and vocal defenders of faith at the site, and I have seen snide comments about atheism and agnosticism in these discussions on many occasions. And Alou is right--it is different, due to the social context.
Yeah, no kidding. No fanbase is without its ######### quotient, especially not the bigger ones.
So only people in majority-Muslim countries are allowed to be critical of even the harsher aspects of Islam?
As much as I rag on the whole Red Sox thing sometimes, I wasn't really ragging there. I just think those two guys are a humorously obnoxious pairing--two guys I would never have thought to group together.
Yeah, and if this were even remotely related to what I was talking about, you might have a point.
making hateful comments about a religion which is an oppressed and vilified minority in America?
I'll give you vilified, but anyone who thinks that any racial, ethic or religious group is systematically oppressed in America doesn't have a really good idea of what oppressed means. Yes, we are a pig-headed and bigoted lot, but it's not like we've rounded up the shia and trucked 'em off to concentration camps.
Jews are a vilified minority in America, but you still hear jokes about Jews all the time. That's what I was referring to, not white guys making "white men can't jump" jokes. And like robin said, if kevin's post had been a bad attempt at humor based on Leviticus instead of on Sharia, nobody would've batted an eye.
The point is that it is different,and your loaded rhetoric--"only" and "allowed"--skirts the issue. If you don't think #59 was in poor taste because it attacks extremism, that is fine, but it is not exactly the same thing as people here making jokes about Christianity.
I think so, yeah. There are a lot of people here who stick up for Christianity, as I said. Also, let's face it--it's kevin. Conflict surrounds a lot of what he says.
MH1F said that.
I do think it was in poor taste, and it wasn't particularly funny. But I don't see what about it engendered the "that was the most offensive thing ever" response it got.
And no, I don't see Islam and Christianity (as religions qua religions) as being different in terms of the respect that we should afford each.
No kidding. That's been his Jyllands-Posten style since 2004 at the very least.
Fair enough; he wouldn't get just MBS. Still, I find it hard to envision it generating the kind of Victorian fainting couch reaction this seems to have provoked. I bet some of the Christians here would have laughed and thought it was funny, even.
Also, let's face it--it's kevin. Conflict surrounds a lot of what he says.
Okay, I gotta give you this one, too.
I am with you there.
Yes, all faiths should be afforded a certain level of respect. But this is a sociopolitical issue. Mocking a minority religion that is often attacked here in the US and is identified with international terrorism is different than mocking an entrenched majority religion that is practiced by a huge percentage of mainstream America and most of its leaders.
And you're right, the US government doesn't round up Muslims and put them in concentration camps. Apart from the (almost entirely Muslim) detainees in Guantanamo Bay, of course. And the God-knows-how-many being held elsewhere in secret jails. But hey, out of sight out of mind, right!
So let's make more jokes about cutting off people's feet. Ha f-ing ha.
By the way, Guantanamo is hardly the only example of the oppressive way the American government treats Muslims. But you know, when people start saying "it's not like we've rounded up the shia and trucked 'em off to concentration camps" - it just blows my mind.
This is absolutely right.
This is also absolutely right. I'll make the point stronger however. The reason the government has gotten away with this behaviour is because people like Kevin think it is right and go out of their way to to prepare the ground for this kind of violation with their islamo-fascism nonsense. So, considering the context Kevin's post is the most offensive thing I've read here. It's the only thing I've read here that has any real world connotations.
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