Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, June 24, 2017

Column | Freddie Freeman Shouldn’t Play 3B To Accommodate Adams

What’s the downside to trying Freeman at third? I guess he could get hurt but he’s been hurt as a first baseman. If he can’t play there, they move him back.

Jim Furtado Posted: June 24, 2017 at 09:16 AM | 58 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, freddie freeman, matt adams

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. cardsfanboy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5482161)
I get why you don't want to ask a superstar to move off his position, but it sounds to me like Freeman is fine with moving to third, why not take the chance, at least long enough to establish any value for Adams on the trade market, to get a better return than what they gave up to get him.
   2. ReggieThomasLives Posted: June 24, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5482164)
I like how author expects Freddie's 209 OPS+ to continue.
   3. cardsfanboy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5482168)
I like how author expects Freddie's 209 OPS+ to continue.


Yep, that was interesting take, along with implying that Freeman is one of the best defensive first baseman out there, he's slightly above average, but not really in the same league as Rizzo, Goldschmidt, Belt or Gonzalez
   4. cardsfanboy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5482169)

He is currently sporting a 203 wRC+ this season, second in baseball only to Mike Trout.......


Will Freeman continue to hit like that? Probably.


Is a weird answer to him having a 203 wRC+, especially when the following part of that statement projects less than that.
Even with any potentially nagging issues from the wrist injury, and some natural regression, PECOTA projects Freeman to run a .306 True Average for the rest of the season. Freeman is one of the five or six best hitters in baseball.


That part implies he won't continue to hit like that, so I'm not sure the writer actually understands the words he's writing.
   5. The Duke Posted: June 24, 2017 at 01:25 PM (#5482185)
It's all well and good until freeman suffers an ACL injury. Victory has many owners. Defeat has none. The GM will never outlive a career altering injury and people tend to cover their asses.
   6. zachtoma Posted: June 24, 2017 at 03:13 PM (#5482212)
My main problem with this is that, over the course of his career, Matt Adams just isn't good enough to move your best player off his position for. So he's had a good 5 weeks? Great, be thankful that he worked out as a stopgap and move on. This is nuts.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 24, 2017 at 04:00 PM (#5482220)
My main problem with this is that, over the course of his career, Matt Adams just isn't good enough to move your best player off his position for. So he's had a good 5 weeks? Great, be thankful that he worked out as a stopgap and move on. This is nuts.

Exactly. If Adams was some hot-shot, blue chip prospect, maybe you take the chance.

But the long-term future of the Braves is with Freeman at 1B.
   8. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: June 24, 2017 at 04:30 PM (#5482231)
Adams isn't some schmuck though. He's generally been a good hitter and certainly a lot better than the alternatives the Braves have. The likely outcomes here are;

Adams keeps raking and for the next couple of years he and freeman are the centerpieces for the Braves while they rebuild.

But playing Freeman at third the Braves aren't "forced" to deal Adams and eventually trade him for a decent return.

Adams or Freeman sucks and Freeman returns to first with no long term harm.

I just don't see a risk here,
   9. Cargo Cultist Posted: June 24, 2017 at 04:36 PM (#5482233)
#8 nailed it. There's no risk, and significant upside. And it's not like doing this is going to keep the Braves out of the playoffs, either.

It's a smart thing to try. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't.
   10. ReggieThomasLives Posted: June 24, 2017 at 05:25 PM (#5482243)
Cabrera moved to third for Prince Fielder.

Freeman is moving for Matt Adams?

I guess terrible infield defense is the new inefficiency.
   11. Hysterical & Useless Posted: June 24, 2017 at 05:43 PM (#5482246)
It's all well and good until freeman suffers an ACL injury.


Do players get injured more at 3B than 1st? [I have no idea, I'm interested if there is real data on this.]

This isn't a team announcing during spring training that star player is being moved to a new position (with this being the 1st the player hears of it). This is star player, currently on the DL, saying I want to help the team by moving to a different position so that the guy who's filled in for me can stay in the lineup. Sure, the Braves could say thanks Freddy, but don't worry your pretty little head about it. Or they could say, damn, you are a helluva team player, let's give it a shot!

Which of those would you rather work for?
   12. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 24, 2017 at 06:05 PM (#5482250)

Do players get injured more at 3B than 1st?


Players get hurt more doing things they haven't done since HS, than they do doing things they've done every day since.
   13. The Duke Posted: June 24, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5482254)
It's not that the chance of injury is higher. I think it is marginally simply because he didn't have an offseason to acclimate. But that's not the point. 3 years from now when freeman is long gone. Because of an injury, Matt Adams is a part-time DH in the AL and the braves miss a couple World Series, people will ask, why would we do that?

If it was the difference berween playoffs or not, I might do it but this team is just about to take off
   14. cardsfanboy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 06:13 PM (#5482255)
Do players get injured more at 3B than 1st?


chronic injuries seemed to exist more at third than other positions(most notably back injuries) but I don't seem to recall anything saying that third is more prone to actual battle(in game) injuries.


The most important factor is whether Freeman is okay with this, if he's on board, you of course make the move. If he's hesitant, as others have pointed out, Adams isn't worth alienating one of your stars.

Of course these things have a tendency to work itself out, maybe by the time Freeman is ready to return, Adams has dropped offensively enough to not be worth the effort. Or Freeman might really suck in his 3-5 rehab games at third to the point that the attempt is put on the backburner. But it makes no sense from a team viewpoint to automatically dismiss different options.
   15. McCoy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 06:20 PM (#5482258)
Hey, the Braves are in second place! They should be making moves to win now!
   16. Cargo Cultist Posted: June 24, 2017 at 07:09 PM (#5482267)
Players get hurt more doing things they haven't done since HS, than they do doing things they've done every day since.


Got any data to back that up?
   17. Cargo Cultist Posted: June 24, 2017 at 07:39 PM (#5482276)
A study on baseball injuries in Forbes showed the exact same injury rate at third as at first.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2015/10/16/infographic-breaks-down-where-700-million-in-baseball-injuries-are-at/
   18. flournoy Posted: June 24, 2017 at 09:59 PM (#5482314)
I still don't think Freeman will wind up spending any time at third base in the majors. But a lot of words have been written about this topic, and there's a lot of ill-founded consternation.

Freeman has been on the DL for over a month. During that time, he's watched Matt Adams hit to a 1.000+ OPS while substituting for him at first base. He's also watched various players cycle through third base: Adonis Garcia, Jace Peterson, Johan Camargo, and Danny Santana. One is on the DL, one has been sent to AAA, and none of the four can hit their way out of a paper bag. So naturally, Freeman thinks, "Hey, I had fun playing third base back in the day and I'm still pretty handy with a glove! I should play third when I get back." And he suggests that to team management.

So what should the Braves do? He's apparently able to take ground balls now (presumably no diving), so if he's enthusiastic about it, why not have him take those grounders at third? Meanwhile, the Braves can determine whether it's actually a viable option or not, and plan accordingly when he's ready to return. There doesn't seem to be any harm in that.

I don't know a whole lot about defensive metrics (and of course none exist for Freeman as a third baseman), but to my eye, he looks like a defender with very good hands, a very good arm, limited range, and no speed. It doesn't seem unthinkable that he could play a passable third base. Perhaps similar to a late-career Chipper Jones.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 24, 2017 at 10:54 PM (#5482334)
Got any data to back that up?

Seriously? In a physical contest, played at the highest level, you don't think being in unfamiliar situations increases the likelihood of injury?
   20. Cargo Cultist Posted: June 24, 2017 at 11:45 PM (#5482338)
Seriously? In a physical contest, played at the highest level, you don't think being in unfamiliar situations increases the likelihood of injury?


No, I don't, and that's based on my having had to play unfamiliar positions. And clearly you have zero data to back up your opinion.
   21. flournoy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 12:03 AM (#5482342)
Injury likelihood may be very dependent on the situation. If a player isn't intimately familiar with a position, he may not even try to make the risky plays, instead opting to play it safe since he knows he's unlikely to make the play successfully anyway. Stick Freddie Freeman in center field, and I bet he'll play the ball off the wall rather than try to make a diving grab into the fence. I'm sure there's some psychological terminology for decreased risk aversion due to increased experience.
   22. flournoy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 12:30 AM (#5482347)
I guess the time limit to edit my post passed... anyway...

I get where Snapper's coming from, though. I'm a single-event track & field coach, and I don't want my star athletes competing in unfamiliar events, in large part due to the risk of injury. I think this is a distinctly different situation, though. You can make a choice in a baseball game to ease up if you think it's beneficial in the long run. Technically you can make the same choice in track & field, but there's usually no payoff. If you're entered in the 110m hurdles, unless you need the mark for qualifying or points-scoring purposes, don't ease off if you're afraid of getting hurt - just don't run the race.

A track & field example more analogous to baseball might be decathlon. As you're getting deep into day two, if you've scored well enough in the first seven events, you might elect to stop after clearing a certain height in pole vault rather than to attempt the next height.
   23. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: June 25, 2017 at 12:47 AM (#5482349)
I think it's absolutely correct that Freeman is more likely to get injured playing third due to unfamiliarity. However, the Braves are not going to contend this year so trying something with potentially useful long term benefits seems wise. The likelihood of Freeman suffering a catastrophic career changing injury is incredibly remote.

Just as an example Jacoby Ellsbury moved from center to left in 2010 and suffered a major injury about a week into the season effectively wiping out the entire season. He came back in 2011 to have far and away the best year of his career. I think the risk of something meaningfully bad happening to Freeman is low enou to be dismissed.
   24. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5482375)
Freeman will be more familiar with 3B, which he played through high school, than Adams was with the OF when the Cards dumped out there. If anything moving a big lumbering corner infielder from the infield to the outfield, where they have to sprint to get balls either in the air or that have gotten past them into the corners, is more likely to lead to "ACL" or leg injuries (most probably hamstrings, I'd guess) than simply moving a guy to the inverse of his existing defensive position. Not that I have any data to back that up, but then again, none of the "he's going to rip his leg off and try to throw it to short on a double play!" guys have any data for their position either.

Freeman at 3B will lack range. Freeman at 3B will be driving-past-a-pileup-on-the-highway "interesting" to see try to charge bunts and slow rollers. Freeman at 3B will need to significantly improve on his throwing. Those are the things that a 3B has to do that a 1B doesn't do that often. Otherwise, standing on a "hot corner" and fielding lasers isn't new.
   25. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5482376)
RE: the 203 wRC+, predicting that a guy killing the ball is going to regress isn't exactly going out on a limb. That said, in 2017 Frattie Freemadams is batting .320/.414/.630 w/ 26 HR, 56 RBI. I'm not saying that's sustainable at all, but I'd certainly make extending Kevin Seitzer a priority.
   26. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5482382)
Standard SSS and such caveats apply, but there's at least some evidence that Kevin Seitzer may have a Leo Mazzone-esque cachet for salvaging or improving veteran hitters.

Tyler Flowers, 3-year average prior: 228/284/372 656 (83)
Tyler Flowers, with Kevin Seitzer: 291/382/439 822 (119)

Matt Kemp, 3-year average prior: 273/319/482 802 (120)
Matt Kemp, with Kevin Seitzer: 301/349/535 884 (130)

Matt Adams, 3-year average prior: 260/312/475 786 (107)
Matt Adams, with Kevin Seitzer: 298/350/641 991 (151)

Brandon Phillips, 3-year average prior: 285/319/396 714 (94)
Brandon Phillips, with Kevin Seitzer: 306/349/463 812 (110)

Freddie Freeman, 3-year average prior: 289/375/472 847 (133)
Freddie Freeman, with Kevin Seitzer: 297/397/554 951 (155)
   27. The Duke Posted: June 25, 2017 at 12:03 PM (#5482386)
The cards put Wong in the OF for a few games and he hurt his shoulder diving for the ball. He has had recurring upper body injuries since that day and is currently on the DL - is it related? Possibly but why take a chance like that.

Major league players are finely tuned machines. If they want to do this - do it next year after he has spent 5 months practicing.
   28. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: June 25, 2017 at 04:38 PM (#5482444)
Duke, why not try it now? I get the injury and performance concerns but this isn't a team contending. They are already 9 games out of the playoffs both for the division and the Wild Card . Even if he gets hurt he will come back next year ready to roll.
   29. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: June 25, 2017 at 05:35 PM (#5482455)
@28, I would guess the rationale is similar to my concern. A) the isn't going to work, there is zero realistic chance. B) there is a non-zero chance that something crazy happens and it does affect him next year or even into the next or beyond. Just a torn ACL would probably cost him part of next year, at least as an effective player. If he catches a ball in the eye or gets a concussion the effects can be far lasting.

Since there's no real chance if net gain there's no reason to take even a 1% risk, and lost season comes into play there as well, as why do this to ride a hot streak from Adams in a season were the got streak is wasted anyway.
   30. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 06:10 PM (#5482468)
the isn't going to work, there is zero realistic chance. B) there is a non-zero chance that something crazy happens and it does affect him next year or even into the next or beyond


When your one true superstar level player comes to you and says "I will play 3B in order to make this team better, if you let me" during another in a string of lost years, you do it.
   31. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 25, 2017 at 06:18 PM (#5482471)
When your one true superstar level player comes to you and says "I will play 3B in order to make this team better, if you let me" during another in a string of lost years, you do it.

No. You say "We really appreciate your willingness to try and help the team, but you're our 1B, and we don't need to mess with that. Just concentrate on getting healthy and hitting the crap out of the ball."
   32. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 06:32 PM (#5482474)
No. You say "We really appreciate your willingness to try and help the team, but you're our 1B,


No. You listen to and respect your franchise cornerstone's desire to win sooner rather than later. You keep a weather eye on the crazy experiment, of course, and if it fails, you say "we tried Freddie, but let's find something else." What you don't do is tell a guy who wants to win that you won't let him try to make his team better by doing something he has at least nominally done previously in his career.
   33. cardsfanboy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 07:42 PM (#5482493)
Third base isn't that much different than first base, the only greater risk potential is to the throwing arm, and that is definitely something the team should evaluate before making the final decision, but as far as actually fielding the position, third is both easier and harder.... at third you don't have to worry about covering the bag, so you don't have to make a decision about how far to range for a ball or not, this is safer in my opinion because you aren't stopping as frequently on your ankles to run back, and you aren't risking being stepped on or having to jump for a ball and apply a tag(which I've seen injure players numerous times) At the same time, third base generally play in closer than first base to compensate for the throw time, and that means a higher percentage of high speed screamers which could potentially cause injury, ultimately injuries at either base is pretty rare, and outside of the arm thing(and receiving throws), the skills for the positions are pretty similar, just in opposite directions.
   34. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 25, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5482525)
No. You listen to and respect your franchise cornerstone's desire to win sooner rather than later.

This isn't the NBA where you have to let prima donna superstars play arm chair GM to the detriment of the team.
   35. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 25, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5482531)
Third base isn't that much different than first base, the only greater risk potential is to the throwing arm, and that is definitely something the team should evaluate before making the final decision, but as far as actually fielding the position, third is both easier and harder.... at third you don't have to worry about covering the bag, so you don't have to make a decision about how far to range for a ball or not, this is safer in my opinion because you aren't stopping as frequently on your ankles to run back, and you aren't risking being stepped on or having to jump for a ball and apply a tag(which I've seen injure players numerous times) At the same time, third base generally play in closer than first base to compensate for the throw time, and that means a higher percentage of high speed screamers which could potentially cause injury, ultimately injuries at either base is pretty rare, and outside of the arm thing(and receiving throws), the skills for the positions are pretty similar, just in opposite directions.

I would worry more about twisted ankles, torn ligaments etc., from a guy not knowing where to go on various plays, and making late/panicky reactions. Freeman has spent 10 years going where a 1B goes on plays from grounders to cut-off throws. Now you're asking him to completely unlearn those reactions and learn a whole new set, mid-season. Throw in shifts, and it gets even more confusing.

I 100% believe that you don't mess around with your all-star players for positional flexibility BS. You stick them at their best position, and move the other pieces around them.

And you certainly don't move your best player for Matt (113 career OPS+ at 1B) Adams.
   36. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 25, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5482536)
And you certainly don't move your best player for Matt (113 career OPS+ at 1B) Adams.


There's no more (or less) reason to believe Matt Adams hasn't found a new level of productivity than there is to believe Aaron Judge has.
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 09:14 PM (#5482537)
I 100% believe that you don't mess around with your all-star players for positional flexibility BS. You stick them at their best position, and move the other pieces around them.

And you certainly don't move your best player for Matt (113 career OPS+ at 1B) Adams.


We're going to disagree no matter what.. I don't believe in anything set in stone. Whether it's Jeter at short or Matt Holliday in left.... you make decisions based upon a ton of factors, and a players willingness, especially the star, is a big deal... if Freeman wasn't willing, this wouldn't even enter the discussion phase, but his willingness, at this point in time, just means you consider it. You aren't locked into anything by considering it. It's very likely that if Matt Adams is just a 113 ops+ hitter, that by the time Freeman returns, the desire to keep Adams in the lineup will be reduced enough. But locking out the option right now, limits your future options. From my Cardinal viewpoint, Pujols didn't have a set position until his fourth year in the majors, Carpenter has bounced around a few positions, heck go back to Stan Musial, Biggio, Jackie Robinson or Pete Rose, it's the superstar's willingness to help the team out that is the first thing, and then their ability to actually do it that matters.
   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 25, 2017 at 09:52 PM (#5482553)
There's no more (or less) reason to believe Matt Adams hasn't found a new level of productivity than there is to believe Aaron Judge has.

There's 1500 MLB PAs and almost 4 years of age that makes it less likely. As does the fact that Judge is hitting the ball harder than anyone in MLB. He leads the league in exit velocity, and has 16 of the 50 hardest hit HRs.

The number of mediocre sluggers who have done what Adams is doing (143 hot PA) at some point in their career must be in the hundreds.
   39. cardsfanboy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 10:01 PM (#5482558)
The number of mediocre sluggers who have done what Adams is doing (143 hot PA) at some point in their career must be in the hundreds.


It's what Adams does when he is healthy though. The issue with Adams isn't really about talent, it's about health.
   40. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5482564)
I am always skeptical about that line of argument. It's very easy to ex post facto an "unhealthy" explanation to a subpar season. "Oh, that quad injury must have been bothering him since May."
   41. cardsfanboy Posted: June 25, 2017 at 10:32 PM (#5482567)
I am always skeptical about that line of argument. It's very easy to ex post facto an "unhealthy" explanation to a subpar season. "Oh, that quad injury must have been bothering him since May."


Agree, it's one of those arguments that basically says "you have to have been there" which of course then means it's a very subjective argument, and it's very possible that the observer(me) is applying an injury argument to pa that isn't injury related.. I fully get that issue, but from my observance, yes Adams has been hurt offensively by playing while less than 90%.

It's something that you hope the scouts and the experts on the team will data collect to the point to have a bit more certainty than a fan of the team who is looking at it through 'cardinal' colored glasses... I'm just pointing out that it was pretty much known around St Louis that Adams was playing through injuries pretty frequently because of other situations on the roster and his desire to earn playing time.
   42. Bote Man Posted: June 26, 2017 at 12:24 AM (#5482597)
It's possible that a player of Freeman's caliber could readily pull off a change in position because he has proven himself with work ethic, athleticism, and on-field experience. Asking a guy like Adams to do the same thing would likely fail for the same reasons. So if this is to be, I'd rather have Freeman make the change than Adams.
   43. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5482653)
There's 1500 MLB PAs and almost 4 years of age that makes it less likely.


Matt Adams' 1539 at bats prior to 2017: 271/315/453

Aaron Judge's 1513 at bats in the minors: 278/373/473

The reason you're projecting Judge as performing "at a new level" instead of as a fluke is the laundry.
   44. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5482658)
So if this is to be, I'd rather have Freeman make the change than Adams.


Yeah. The real disagreement is between "should the Braves try to find a way to keep Adams in the lineup or flip him for prospects." If you come down on the "keep him in the lineup" side of that question, Freeman is clearly the better option to try at a new position.
   45. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 26, 2017 at 09:53 AM (#5482661)
The reason you're projecting Judge as performing "at a new level" instead of as a fluke is the laundry.

Again, no. He's hitting the ball harder than anybody in MLB. That has always translated into elite results.
   46. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:00 AM (#5482666)
Again, no. He's hitting the ball harder than anybody in MLB. That has always translated into elite results.


"Exit velocity" stats have not "always translated into results" because we've only had them available for like 18 friggin' months.

Aaron Judge is putting together a very impressive game in the Bronx. He's playing far above his established profile. Every team in the league would like to have him on their roster. But he is nonetheless playing far above his established profile. If you're on the high side of that performance spike, you can find reasons to argue this is his true talent level; he's 25, he's hitting the ball hard, yadda yadda yadda. If you're not, you can be skeptical that he'll regress to the mean of his larger sample size of professional at bats (his minor league numbers and his performance from 2016.) Where you fall there probably depends more on what you want to happen than any hard analytics.

The exact same thing is true for Matt Adams. Replace age and "hit ball hard like Russian bear" with "this is what he does when he's healthy," etc. Again, it's almost certainly a matter of what you *want* to happen that draws you to a conclusion, but in the end, there's no radically hard "analytic" reason to be pro-Judge while being anti-Adams, or vice versa.
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5482678)
"Exit velocity" stats have not "always translated into results" because we've only had them available for like 18 friggin' months.

Hitting the ball hard has always generated elite results. Scouts and players have always known who hits the ball the hardest. You always hear them talk about "the sound the ball makes coming off the bat".

No one thinks Judge will regress to his minor league numbers. ZiPs has him projected to a 130 wRC+ for the rest of the season, vs. a 105 pre-season, and ZiPs doesn't know how hard he is hitting the ball.

Matt Adams, on the other hand, projects to a 102 wRC+ RoS, vs a 102 pre-season.
   48. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5482681)
Hitting the ball hard has always generated elite results.


You know who hits the ball hard? Matt Adams. You pick and choose based on laundry. Which is fine. EVERYONE does that. Just accept it and move on.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5482683)
I think snapper gets a pass, this is the Yankees fan that hopes Jeter gets unveiled as a steroids user.

Also I think the point re: the ZiPS in-season projections is a significant one.
   50. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5482692)
I think snapper gets a pass, this is the Yankees fan that hopes Jeter gets unveiled as a steroids user.


Meh. I'm using snapper as a useful tool because he's there. The point is that everyone arguing that Matt Adams is clearly incapable of hitting better than his career line when he's healthy picks and chooses when they deploy the Regression To Mean Is Holy And Sacrosanct argument.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 26, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5482706)
You know who hits the ball hard? Matt Adams. You pick and choose based on laundry. Which is fine. EVERYONE does that. Just accept it and move on.

No, he doesn't. He's not in the top-50 for exit velocity, and doesn't have a single HR in the top-50 for exit velocity or distance.

Don't believe me. Believe Zips.
   52. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 11:02 AM (#5482732)
Don't believe me. Believe Zips.


Actually, I don't believe either of you. True story.
   53. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: June 26, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5482734)
Whether or not Matt Adams is better than Aaron Judge has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The question is whether or not Adams 1B/Freeman 3B is an improvement over Freeman 1B/Carmargo or Garcia or Peterson or whoever at 3B. The answer to that question is almost certainly yes and I still don't see any remotely convincing argument against moving Freeman to 3rd base. Yes there is probably a slightly elevated injury risk but that risk is still highly remote and still highly unlikely to be something that impacts his 2018 (or beyond) season.
   54. PreservedFish Posted: June 26, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5482793)
The point is that everyone arguing that Matt Adams is clearly incapable of hitting better than his career line when he's healthy picks and chooses when they deploy the Regression To Mean Is Holy And Sacrosanct argument.


I don't think you've proved that anyone is doing this.
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 26, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5482803)
The point is that everyone arguing that Matt Adams is clearly incapable of hitting better than his career line when he's healthy

This is a silly statement. Your just saying Adams is capable of hitting better than normal when he's hot. That's true of literally every player in MLB. There's likely a very good correlation between slumps and minor injuries.

Why should we believe that Adams is capable of staying 100% healthy now, if that's been the reason for all his career struggles?
   56. base ball chick Posted: June 26, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5483035)
sigh
seems to me i remember all KINDS of stars/superstars moving off their established position to a different one
gold glover arod moving offn SS to accomodate a prima donna

or

how about chipper jones moving off 3B after 10 YEARS to go play LF
or biggio moving off 2B to play CF (you talk about TERRIBLE fielding)
or miggy cabrera moving back to 3rd after years at 1B

there are plenty more

it was freddie freeman's idea, not the team's
the braves aren't exactly particularly good or likely to go anywhere this year and they don't have anyone who is even ML average to play 3rd as it is

matt adams was a decent 1B before he got hurt
it is ridiculous to insist that no ballplayer ever figures out how to improve his game at age 28
   57. Rickey! the first of his name Posted: June 26, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5483075)
Why should we believe that Adams is capable of staying 100% healthy now, if that's been the reason for all his career struggles?


I haven't said we should. I have said that Adams is a good enough player to take a shot at moving Freeman to 3B, because he makes the team better. I have said there's less chance of Freeman getting hurt at 3B than there is of Adams getting hurt in the OF. I've said that since we know the team has Freeman's buy in, and we know Adams makes the team better than Johan Carmago, it's in everyone's interest to at least try the Freeman to 3B experiment in a long-shot-at-best year. The possibility of "losing" the hot window to trade Adams and the downgrade of prospects that might bring is a outweighed by the optics of clearly tanking yet another season without even *trying* to compete.

And I've said that people cherry pick which hot fluke half seasons they want to take seriously based on rooting interests and bias.
   58. Dog on the sidewalk Posted: June 26, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5483103)
Or based on age and projections.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
dirk
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogALCS Game 6 OMNICHATTER, for October 20, 2017
(146 - 3:24am, Oct 21)
Last: LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogAngell: Bringing the Yankees Home?
(3 - 2:52am, Oct 21)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogDusty Baker Will Not Be Back as Manager
(54 - 2:50am, Oct 21)
Last: Bote Man

NewsblogOTP 16 October 2017: Sorry, Yankee fans: Trump’s claim that he can ensure victory simply isn’t true
(1723 - 2:42am, Oct 21)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(427 - 1:53am, Oct 21)
Last: cmd600

NewsblogHeyman | Tigers To Hire Ron Gardenhire
(26 - 1:48am, Oct 21)
Last: cmd600

Gonfalon CubsFive minute Los Angeles Dodgers Preview
(89 - 9:07pm, Oct 20)
Last: Pops Freshenmeyer

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(2086 - 9:01pm, Oct 20)
Last: Gonfalon Bubble

NewsblogBaseball News, Scores, Analysis, Schedules
(4 - 9:00pm, Oct 20)
Last: Dr. Vaux

NewsblogTheo Epstein: Joe Maddon has taken enough heat, don’t blame NLCS on Cubs manager | NBC Sports Chicago
(17 - 8:58pm, Oct 20)
Last: Andere Richtingen

NewsblogDodgers crush Cubs in Game 5 to advance to the World Series for first time since 1988 | LA Times
(51 - 8:26pm, Oct 20)
Last: TomH

NewsblogSeverino, Verlander ready for G6 in Houston | MLB.com
(4 - 8:09pm, Oct 20)
Last: caspian88

NewsblogOT: New Season August 2017 Soccer Thread
(1187 - 7:57pm, Oct 20)
Last: Fourth True Outcome

NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
(149 - 6:11pm, Oct 20)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-20-2017
(20 - 3:00pm, Oct 20)
Last: There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie)

Page rendered in 0.4641 seconds
47 querie(s) executed