if you are going to read any of them .. read rogers.

once you get past the fact that roger is just a dumb jock, its a good read. Roger is even funny at times.

couple of things.. it is obvious that these "investigators" have never stepped foot into a professional sports locker room. they can't seem to grasp the idea of anybody but a doctor giving "a shot".

Roger, while not trying to, paints a very good picture of the sheltered life of a professional ballplayer.

and Hardin rips Mitchell's report.

shreds it.

apparently Hardin has tried to speak to Micthell, and the senator refuses.

You know, it has been very hard for me because of Senator Mitchell's reputation, and I think well-earned reputation, to not say publicly it is a horrible, disgraceful report, but it is

Mr. Issa. But doesn't it also undercut the nature of the Mitchell Report and the authenticity if they didn't do something that anyone could do?

Mr. Hardin. Absolutely. Part of the problem here is that we're in the situation of challenging a report by a congressional icon.
Mr. Breuer. Right.
Mr. Hardin. And there is no secret among any of us how highly Senator Mitchell is thought of, and yet we know that they did not do any due diligence on this man or his story. And that is just one example of things that you or I would respectfully suggest this staff, if you were tasked with doing it, you would have looked into it before you went out -- not you -- but before people went out and ruined this man's name.

he then rattles off a whole laundry list of failings in the Mitchell report.

this one struck me as odd ..

in regards to if Mitchell ever looked into mcnamme's rape case. Hardin. And, finally -- I am sorry, I am sorry -- finally, we were -- what I have already mentioned before and that you know of. We checked to see who has ever made a public records request for the offense report of the 2001 deal. And when we find out that the only two people that have made a request before us were a New York Times reporter who asked for it in 2006, when the -- for some reason, and McNamee's lawyer back in 2002.

Hardin. And then we tell him another shocking thing is that, according to the Mitchell people -- and Senator Mitchell I think testifies that they called him -- they have three meetings with McNamee, one in person, two phone interviews.

I don't know an investigator that relies on phone interviews.

But, anyway, they call him to check out the facts. When they do so, he asks them -- according to McNamee -- and, again, I have no idea whether he is telling the truth -- McNamee tells us that one of the things he asked the Mitchell people to take out of the report was a reference to the fact that he was fired by the Yankees because of the rape investigation in 2001.

So now you have the cooperator asking for the report to be sterilized as it applies to him, and they do so. That, to me, is incredibly shocking

it is obvious that these "investigators" have never stepped foot into a professional sports locker room. they can't seem to grasp the idea of anybody but a doctor giving "a shot".

It's also obvious that a lot of the posters here have never stepped into a hospital or a medical clinic. They can't seem to grasp the difference between a real doctor who spends years and years in medical school to become licensed to practice medicine, and these shady, fake "doctors" like Greg Anderson and Brian McNamee, who get their medical "degrees" on a matchbook cover.

It's also obvious that a lot of the posters here have never stepped into a hospital or a medical clinic.

Is it just me, or are the things you're saying becoming progressively dumber? Try opening a window.

"if you are going to read any of them .. read rogers.

once you get past the fact that roger is just a dumb jock, its a good read. Roger is even funny at times.

couple of things.. it is obvious that these "investigators" have never stepped foot into a professional sports locker room. they can't seem to grasp the idea of anybody but a doctor giving "a shot".

Roger, while not trying to, paints a very good picture of the sheltered life of a professional ballplayer.

and Hardin rips Mitchell's report."

Rep. Gambling Rent, R-In

It's also obvious that a lot of the posters here have never stepped into a hospital or a medical clinic. They can't seem to grasp the difference between a real doctor who spends years and years in medical school to become licensed to practice medicine, and these shady, fake "doctors" like Greg Anderson and Brian McNamee, who get their medical "degrees" on a matchbook cover

right, because it takes years and years of medical training to give shot..


sucks to be a diabetic a guess.

there is some good stuff in here..

McNamee's phone conversation with Murray ... lots of good dirt.

thanks Jim for keeping linking this.

It's also obvious that a lot of the posters here have never stepped into a hospital or a medical clinic. They can't seem to grasp the difference between a real doctor who spends years and years in medical school to become licensed to practice medicine, and these shady, fake "doctors" like Greg Anderson and Brian McNamee, who get their medical "degrees" on a matchbook cover.

One point Clemens makes in his deposition is that McNamee held himself out as more than just a strength and conditioning trainer; McNamee told him he had a Ph.D. and McNamee had been under contract with two different MLB teams at the time Clemens met him in 1998 Toronto. Clemens said he had no idea that McNamee had obtained his "Ph.D." online. I don't know why it would have been unreasonable for Clemens to assume that McNamee was qualified to give him a shot.

On the subject of B12 shots, Clemens says teams would routinely give them, even that they were lined up in a row, pre-prepared, for players as they were coming out of the shower. He says the B12 shots were given by the team either in the shoulder or the butt. (With respect to the lidocaine shot he says McNamee gave him, Clemens says McNamee gave that shot to him in the lower back, where his back pain was.)

Quoting now from Clemens's deposition:

Q: The last question I have, which I think may be a little unclear, this is going back to B12 and Toronto and Mr. McNamee gave you shots. Did other -- my recollection is you said other people also gave you shots while you were in Toronto, but we are not sure -- we wanted to clarify that point. When you were with Toronto, who gave you B12 shots? Mr. McNamee. Were there others that gave you B12 shots?

A I would say anybody on the training staff that I can remember I am sure.

Mr. Hardin. And Dr. Taylor says he did.

The Witness. Dr. Taylor. There was another doctor listed that I don't know if he was like an on-call doctor on the weekends, if he -- whatever -- you know --

BY MR. BARNETT:
Q Did they give you multiple shots or one shot?

A Oh, gosh. I am sure I have had -- again, I don't want to guess here, but I am pretty sure I have had pain medicine shots in pill form.

Mr. Breuer. Roger, why don't you explain, if it is not clear, sort of the prevalence of giving B12 shots in Major League Baseball and the reality of how it is done.

The Witness. Sure. You know, I am offended -- I will be honest with you. I am offended, and it has nothing to do with y'all. It is media, that they knew that B12, wink, wink, was for something else. And my B12 was B12. My mother suggested it in a liquid form back in 1988. My sisters, again, are offended by -- of course, they read -- I tell them not to read everything because it is driving them crazy, but we will do this the proper and right way. But hundreds -- it is so common to take B12. There is supplements in the trainers' room for us to take, and I have taken that are supposed to be -- I don't know. I don't know if they work as far as for my joints.

Mr. Hardin. Create a visual scene for them, how shots are handled.

Mr. Breuer. Coming out of the shower or something.

The Witness. Yes, a B12-shot. And the same way McNamee after a game, and I am passing the room, and I told him, you know, that I need a B12 or the doctor, whatever, and there is four or five needles already lined up ready to go. And you get it in your shirt or you pull your jeans down, and they give you a B12-shot, and you are out the door. Most of mine -- most of mine were always after a game. As far as B12 or taking some vitamins, depending if it was a day game and I knew I was going to eat if something wouldn't settle in my stomach right -- I mean --

Mr. Hardin. Do you know whether, Roger, whether or not -- did you ever see them -- when you say "the needles were" -- and they were ready to be just done, did you ever see them loaded yourself?

The Witness. I have never seen them load a needle. It was already predone or whatever you want to call it. And even though, you know, I would be in there say getting ready to go in the shower and one of the young kids or one of the older guys would say Geno or whoever to the trainers, or whoever, I need -- I would like to get a B -- and it would be ready for them to go.

On the subject of the 2003 survey testing, Clemens apparently (page 120 of his deposition) passed the 2003 test and has turned those results over to the committee.

On the subject of amphetamines, Clemens says he has never taken amphetamines, although he's not real clear on what they are. Interestingly, he said that he suspects McNamee once gave him a strange pill unbeknownst to him:

Q This would be amphetamines or other performance-enhancing drugs. And have you ever taken amphetamines or other performance-enhancing drugs during your career?

The Witness. I don't know, a list of items that I have taken, I have taken an ephedra product, but I don't believe it was banned. I don't -- can you read your question again, please?

BY MR. BARNETT:
Q I was asking amphetamines or other performance-enhancing drugs during your baseball --

A No performance-enhancing drugs. I don't think that a Hydroxycut or a ThermaCore, I will leave that up to the experts. I know it has ephedra in it.

Q Amphetamines?

A No. I mean no amphetamines. It sounds like -- amphetamines sounds like a hard drug or something. I have not taken any amphetamines.

Q Let me ask you, you said you have taken some things that may have had ephedra in them?

A Yes.

Q Do you want to just read what those substances are?

A Hydroxycut and ThermaCore I have taken. And from what I have learned, it has ephedra in it, which is a tree root from what I have learned. And it was banned in 2004. The FDA banned it, not Major League Baseball. FDA banned it, it is banned. So I stopped. I didn't take it after that.

Q Your use was prior to the FDA ban?

A I took Hydroxycut and/or ThermaCore, I can't remember which one...

Q Did you ever use a -- to your knowledge, did you ever use a substance banned by Major League Baseball?

A No.

Mr. Hardin. Can I ask you, there is -- he asked you about amphetamines. There was one incident that you have mentioned that you never knew, wondered, that you might tell them about that.

The Witness. Well, again this kind of goes along with what Jennifer asked me earlier. Brian McNamee, when he trained me at my house, would get up and come into the main house. He stayed in a house there -- again, Jennifer asked me earlier, McNamee, when that -- when I didn't have family
staying at that house he would, you know, I would allow him to stay there so he didn't have to pay hotel expenses, but I knew he would stay at a hotel also sometimes. When he would come into my house, he would -- the daily routine of the 5, 6 days, whatever it might be that he was there, he would make a protein shake for me. I didn't ever see -- you know, he would bring the powder in and mix the powder. I would have the drink and it is ready for me to drink. Some were good, some were bad tasting.

On one specific occasion, he -- he had a vitamin package that had two or three vitamins in it. And it was what I know now and I will tell you that, but let me just stay on the subject here. The vitamins he would have open and put in a little like butter dish or something like that where I would come in and take it. He would be off maybe going to the gym to get the lights on to work, whatever. And on one specific occasion he gave me a white, it was a white small pill. And within an hour-and-a-half of taking that pill, I was -- I don't know what it is like to drink 10 cups of coffee, but I was throwing my pen, and I could barely hang onto the ball.

And I asked him what that was. And he told me it was similar to a Hydroxycut or a ThermaCore. And I said from that point on -- I said don't ever -- you leave my vitamins in their packs. And I feel that it was some kind of -- like amphetamine or something. It wasn't a vitamin, because it made me, my body feel like I have never felt before. I was edgy, I really couldn't -- not that I couldn't hold the ball, but I was edgy. And that was one confrontation we had.

...

And so, but if you are asking me, I don't think it was a -- I don't think it was ephedra. And I don't know, because I think it was after -- I passed every test. I played for the not Olympic team, but the world team, which I considered that testing more harsh than Major League Baseball. I invited them to my house to test me in the off season. They did it. I had my oldest son, who is in the game, I made sure he was at home to come watch the testing to see how intruding the testing is when you -- you know, it is not -- it's not comfortable, if you guys know anything about the testing. So that is my position on that.

And like I said, I told -- I explained to Rusty about that, that -- but I had no reason to believe this guy would harm me. I don't know what his, again, agenda is. I have these thoughts. And if you ask me directly, on the taped interview that we had, you will hear that he says that he has turned down a seven figure deal. And it is my belief that he is going to write a book about me, or whatever he has done to all these other players that I had no knowledge of before I have heard about the report, what is in it.

He also isn't real clear on what andro is. Page 183:

Q You talked earlier about some of the other vitamins and dietary supplements and shakes that you have taken. Did you -- have you ever taken Andro?

A Andro? I don't know. I'm not sure.

Q Before it was banned.

A Andro? I don't know.

Q That's like the short -- the nickname for it. The longer name is --

Mr. Castor. Androstenedione?

The Witness. No, I have not taken that. That's not a creatine? Is it a creatine?

Mr. Hardin. I have no idea.

Mr. Breuer. I have no idea.

BY MS. SAFAVIAN:
Q To your knowledge --

A No.

Q -- you have not taken any Andro?

A No.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Page 111, Clemens:

A On the Vioxx subject that I was eating like Skittles, because it was good for my -- or okay, for my stomach, I could tolerate it. It was actually good for the swelling in my body that I have over the years, which I have taken say an Indocin, and it was not something that agreed with me. But I will tell you, again, I threw out the Vioxx, and I specifically remember this, that McNamee went into my trash can and took the Vioxx. There were 70 or 80 pills of Vioxx that I had gathered that he had taken these. And I don't know what he did with those.

Debby threw the bat at Piazza.

Two final quotes here, on other arguments Clemens said he and McNamee had.

Page 143:

Q A Ph.D. in what subject?

A I couldn't tell you. You have to ask him. But that was the -- I think the initial problem that he had with the Hendricks. And I think Jim Murray also knew about that. Hickey Chemist, who he supplied the vitamins to me, I guess he took liberty to -- I don't know what deal he struck with them. I will just say that. But I will say that, according to Randy Hendricks, Jim Murray, those types of endorsements will bring me close to $100,000. Brian McNamee, without me knowing, put me in an article or --

Mr. Hardin. Advertisement.

The Witness. -- advertisement, thank you, and that caused a pretty big rift. I basically told him, you can't be doing that. You would have to run that by Jim Murray or the Hendricks. I think at that point is when he got, again, a little upset with Hendricks and threatened to sue them.

Page 106:

I will tell you that, again on the lines that Jennifer asked me, is he didn't really what I would say ##### to me, but from what I understand from other people, my agents, marketing manager/agent, I didn't hire him -- I have an RCI Institute, the Roger Clemens Institute with Memorial Hermann that I have a lot of pride in in Houston, and it was opening up. It is a performance workout for weekend warriors, people that hurt themselves, you know, grown men, young kids hurt themselves playing tennis, it is a rehabilitation, you know, rehab facility.

They also opened up a wing in my wife and my's name, a children's wing which I take a lot of pride in. It is going to supersede my baseball playing career. Like I said, baseball is what I did, it is not who I am as a person. And I have found out since that McNamee is very upset or pissed about not -- not getting hired for that. I know he mentioned when he had heard from somewhere that he said you got -- I kind of just blew him off about it, yeah, they are opening an institute. I don't know everything that is going into it, but it is going to be a facility. Well, can I go buy the weights for it? I said, no, they have got, you know, plenty of people to assist in doing that. The Memorial Hermann people are great people, and they have got it together.

I have continually told him that, when he was going to sue the Yankees and the Astros about his workout regimen -- if you understand about this time of year, really a couple weeks earlier, the ball clubs will send out an off-season workout program. And to get the kids ready so they are ready to go when they get to camp. It is not like the olden days where you used spring training to get in shape. If you do that now, you are going to lose your job. You get in shape before you come to camp. And he was very upset, and I continue -- and I hear this publicly that is going on right now, and again I am biting my lip, my tongue, for me it wasn't his workout. The bulk of it is my workout. When I met Brian McNamee, he followed me around. He studied my workout. And he added about three or four exercises to this workout that now is his, or his Seal program, or whatever that he states is his workout, that he is going to sue, and it is not patented.

Wrong.

From the Boston Globe:

Pappas was interviewed in Clemens case

He said he would not have prescribed B-12 injections for Clemens. "Occasionally people would come in and have a prescription from another doctor requesting a B-12 shot," said Pappas, who added that he could not recall whether Clemens received a B-12 shot from him. Asked if Clemens had received such a shot from any team doctor, Pappas, who did not have an attorney present and said he did not have Sox medical records with him, said, "Not that I know of."

Kevin, I'm not sure where you think Clemens has been caught in a lie or inconsistency.

I'll address the specifics in a moment, but what you have to recognize is that the different teams have different policies and practices as to how B12 shots are handled. For example, I think Pettitte testified that B12 shots are very prevalent with the Yankees, but not so much with the Astros. With respect to the portion of Clemens's deposition that I quoted above -- in which he says that needles were lined up -- he was referring to how the Yankees handle things (he makes this clear later in the deposition).

Getting back to Pappas's comments, Pappas basically says in that article:
1. Only team physicians were authorized to give B12 shots;
2. Red Sox trainers were not authorized to give injections;
3. Pappas would not have prescribed B12 injections for Clemens;
4. Occasionally a player would come in with a prescription from another doctor for a B12 shot;
5. Pappas could not recall whether he or another team doctor ever gave Clemens a B12 shot (I'm not sure how he could be expected to have a specific recollection of this).

None of this is inconsistent with anything Clemens said in his deposition. Clemens simply said in his deposition that he "imagines" he got B12 shots while in Boston, but he doesn't have any specific recollection of it. Notably, he doesn't claim to have any specific recollection of any Red Sox trainer or even Pappas having given him a B12 shot.

Quoting now from Page 150 of his deposition:

Q. Why don't we try to go quickly through each team. When you were with the Red Sox, did you receive B12 shots?

A I would imagine. It's been a long time, but I would imagine, yes. Again, my sisters helped pull it in, as my mother suggested it to me. My mother died of emphysema, and she was -- she was big on health, obviously, trying to maintain her health. And she suggested -- my sister reminded me after all this started happening that my mother suggested it to me in 1988. I was with the Boston Red Sox for 13 years. So I'm going to say yes to your question.

On page 28 he simply lists the names of the Red Sox doctors and trainers without claiming to have a specific recollection of any of them having given him a B12 shot:

Q And let me start with the Red Sox. Who did you get shots from while you were with the Red Sox, B12 shots?

A.. The latter part, where you asked me who I received shots from of B12 --

Q Right.

A -- I can't tell you. I know the team doctor was Dr. Arthur Pappas.

Q Okay.

A I know there was a -- later in my career, a Gil, a doctor -- I think his first name is Gil Morgan. The trainer there would have been Charlie Moss. Rich Zawacki was the assistant trainer. He is a gentleman I trained with also at the University of Massachusetts during the winter. And there were two other trainers there. I can't pull their names in for you. I trained with Steve August. He never gave me a shot of any B12 or pain medicine or anything like that.

I'm not sure who is working harder Ray DiPerna and Gambling Rent or Rusty Hardin?