Good to see Corky's still writing.

Of course there were questions about Mays's performance in the 1921 World Series. Everybody knows that after pitching 337 innings in the regular season and a complete game shutout in game 1, that after seven shutout innings four days later you can't tire and give up three runs. Not to a Giants team that hit .298 in the regular season. And when you get a 1 run lead in game 7, you have to hold it. Even if the eventual winning run gets on due to an error by the second baseman. Suck it up, Carl!. So what if the Babe misses the last three days with an injury.

That was sarcasm although there are several sources besides Lieb that say Miller Huggins, and a few others, detested Mays. Although Yankee owner Jacob Ruppert did like Mays, according to "The pitch that killed".

I think there's little doubt that Mays was a jerk. I also think that he suffered consequences he didn't deserve for that beaning.

I agree. Will Whitey Ford ever recover from that pretzel barrage?

I've always thought that Elvis's final drug binge was caused by his anniversary reflections on Chapman's death. I've never seen any proof to the contrary.

I think Mays would have gone in had he missed with that pitch, and had been more likeable. At this point, I can't imagine he'd ever get a campaign going for him. There have been a lot of better pitchers over the years that did not get anywhere near the hall, and pushed him down the waiting list.

I wonder if he was always a jerk, or if people's reaction to the Chapman pitch turned him into one?

Looking at his record, I see a bit of Jack Morris and Kevin Brown there. The similarities to Brown are the wins (211-208), ERA+ (127-120), innings (3256-3021), and general unlikability. For Morris, they both are similar in WAR (around 39) and like Jack, Carl Mays benefitted by pitching for great teams that gave him both great defensive and great offensive support.

I wonder if he was always a jerk, or if people's reaction to the Chapman pitch turned him into one?

According to Sowell, he was pretty much always a jerk; one of those guys who expects a lot from himself and everyone around him, and shows it. At least, that's what I remember from the book.

According to Sowell, he was pretty much always a jerk; one of those guys who expects a lot from himself and everyone around him, and shows it.

Wow, the Kevin Brown/Jack Morris similarities keep coming.

The Pitch that Killed was a pretty awesome book.

I just finished The Celebrant last night, and it seems like old New York Giants things are showing up all over the place today.

Take a look at this piece on Mays.

The "bitter dispute" in 1919 occurred in July, when Mays jumped the Red Sox after a string of outings in which he pitched well but got little run support. The Yankees picked him up at the end of July, but Ban Johnson suspended him and New York went to court to get an injunction that prevented Johnson from suspending Mays. Johnson supposedly had a financial interest in the Cleveland Indians, who also wanted to get Mays, and was trying to steer Mays toward the Tribe.

The Mays incident was the beginning of the end for Johnson. It also contributed, indirectly, to the Black Sox scandal later that year. White Sox owner Charles Comiskey sided with the Yankees and Red Sox against Johnson, in part because he also wanted to add Mays and felt that Johnson's interference on Cleveland's behalf prevented him from making a deal with the Red Sox. When Kid Gleason shared his suspicions of a fix with Comiskey after Game 2, Comiskey went to NL President John Heydler rather than to Johnson or to Garry Herrmann (the chairman of the ruling National Commission but also the owner of the Reds, and who was himself a long-time crony of Johnson's - obviously Comiskey couldn't go there), and when Heydler tried to share Comiskey's concerns with Johnson he was rudely rebuffed.

-- MWE