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...let the debate begin.
"Who."
"The group onstage."
"Who."
Back in March of 1980, The Jam were playing around town so the main DJ at Maxwells asked to sub for him that night as he was going to take in the show.
As I was playing "Chubby" Reynolds "The Bells of My Heart" some spikey poser demanded I play (ugh) "Brand New Cadillac" by The Clash (did I say ugh)...I told him to produce the Downliners Sect version and I would think about it.
He hit me with a rather large bench.
What a great thread! I had never seen it either.
Gotta go, my wife is coming after me...
Setting Sons is their best album, with the concession the single version of 'Smithers-Jones' replaces the weaker strings version, that's how I have it on my Ipod, and that's how God intended it.
The Jam at the BBC is also fantastic as well.
My opinion on the Jam was more or less stated in the last punk blowout so I won't repeat it here.
Back in Chicago I hung out with some folks for whom the Who and the Jam were pretty much religious icons. Quadrophenia used to play on the TVs at the bars we hung out in.
However, those non-album singles surrounding it? Man, THAT core Jam: "Strange Town" is probably my favorite Jam song ever. ("Man In The Corner Shop" and the tres obscure ALTERNATE demo of "That's Entertainment" from the boxed set fill out the Top Three.) "When You're Young" is nearly as good. The "rock" version of "Smithers-Jones," too.
I don't own The Jam's BBC disc which, given how much I'm revisiting their complete discography lately, is probably an egregious omission. But I just assumed that since it's mostly live-in-studio versions of songs already available in their regular discography it wasn't much of a revelation. (The truly obligatory BBC sessions are from bands like The Fall or Pavement that regularly featured unreleased/rare songs or radically different early takes.) Am I missing something?
The Clash may be quasi-frontriders for people who claim to like punk music (only their first album was really punk and even then it's not the greatest punk album...that title belongs, of course, to Wire's Pink Flag), but they're still a great band despite the hype.
Then again, I prefer early '80s hardcore (gimme Husker Du's Land Speed Record and the first half of Zen Arcade anyday) to late '70s British punk, so maybe I'm a poseur myself.
I went to see Foxton's (and Buckler's) band called From The Jam or Not The Real Jam or something like. It was those two with a guitarist and a singer to replace Weller. I can't remember why now but Foxton started getting a bit precious and complained at the audience for some reason. They only played for about an hour and a bit. So much for the joy of being back on stage.
At the end of the gig, Foxton threw out his plectrum into the audience and my friend caught it. I wanted to get it off her so I could throw it back at him.
I didn't see any mention of Marquee Moon.
I didn't see any mention of E Pluribus Funk.
Can we count Meaty, Beaty, Big & Bouncy even if it wasn't recorded as an album? I'd pick that one from The 'Oo.
Rays & Hail is an excellent single-disc summary of Magazine's career, with all those songs included as well as the 7" version of "Shot By Both Sides." If I had to recommend just one Magazine record, though, I'd go with The Correct Use of Soap, the finest album Martin Hannett ever recorded.
The Baseball Project's Steve Wynn agrees with you:
Maybe it's just that, to quote The Ruts, I ain't sofisticated.
That makes two of us, at least.
I pretty much burnt out on hardcore by '84 or so, with a handful of exceptions (assuming that the Proletariat, Naked Raygun & False Prophets could be classified as HC, which I'm not sure would be the case). So it goes.
The reason to get the album is the live disc that comes with it. The Jam circa-1979 right before Going Undergound came out. It's fantastic stuff. The version of Smithers-Jones is incredible.
I think Pink Flag might be my favorite rock album. 37 minutes of perfection.
Glad to see both Marquee Moon and Zen Arcade namechecked. Adventure is pretty underrated, The Blow-Up is a glorious live album. The version of Little Johnny Jewel on that disc is transcendent. The reunion album from 1992 is quite underrated to.
As for Husker Du, I have a tough time choosing between Zen Arcade and Flip Your Wig. Zen is just awesome in scope, while Flip Your Wig is probably their tightest album.
The Minutemen belong somewhere in this conversation too.
Speaking of whom (Wire, not Voros), Amazon finally came through with their new album, Object 47, late last week & it's pretty good. Seems like they've largely returned to the poppier landscapes of the Ideal Copy/Bell is a Cup era. Whether that has anything to do with erstwhile lead guitarist Bruce Gilbert's absence, I have no idea.
Huh. Quadrophenia? Tough for me to give that title to an album that is variously called a "rock opera" or "concept album."
Indeed. I think I listened to it maybe twice before I sold it to visiting Mormon missionaries when I was a sophomore in college. Or maybe that was Tommy. In any event, neither of them has taken up space in my (pathetically large) record collection for well over a quarter-century.
to be fair, if you didn't know before, you could probably listen to Quadrophenia on its own and not notice that it's a "concept" album - the songs hold up well on their own, the plot between them is sort of window dressing
Zen Arcade has been mentioned twice in this thread...
It might not be the most concepty of concept albums but there are a number of pretentious touches ... 2 minutes of ocean noises, the themes echoed in multiple songs, the actual rain noises in "Love reign (get it?!) o'er me." Crappy early-synthesizers.
Anyway, that is being critical. I do like the album.
I agree - "Reign O'er Me" in particular is a lame song, and when Townshend had his head up his arse you can always hear it. But damn if there aren't some kickass songs.
If you google "Chubby Reynolds" this thread is #3
Shows you the power and depth of Chubby Reynolds...or something else.
"Well, we all need someone we can leeean on. . . "
I'm pretty sure Club Nouveau doesn't belong in this discussion.
to this date that's the only song I've ever sung in karaoke. The look of vague horror throughout the place when I belted out "if you want in, well you can bleed on me ... ALL OVAH" made it all worthwhile.
It's funny, I think their tightest album is Warehouse. Even though it's a double, there's no instrumentals, only a couple of songs feel like throwaways, and it places it sounds like a greatest-hits compilation. What a way to go out; I still remember how mad I was when I heard the band broke up the next winter.
Wire's tightest album is Pink Flag. Not a second wasted, and "Fragile" is a perfect song.
But Still Bill does. An Australian label paired that on CD with Just As I Am a few years ago, making me very happy.
I love Warehouse. That was my introduction to the band, and I worked backward from there. If it's not the album I've listened to the most in my life, it's a close second to Rum, Sodomy & The Lash.
That's as impressive a string of albums as any band has ever made, right up there with The Beatles from Rubber Soul onwards, or the Stones from Beggar's Banquet through Exile (or The Go-Betweens from Before Hollywood to 16 Lovers Lane).
I think I may have cried. In my historical scale of bad, the breakup of Husker Du makes the baseball strike seem like a pretty girl stepping on my foot.
My favorite string is probably R.E.M. from Chronic Town to Document. One album a year for 6 years, and every single one is fantastic, all while touring pretty much steadily.
And for whatever reason Warehouse has never captured my imagination like the rest of Husker's work.
You got the lyrics wrong--they go:
Women think I'm tasty, but they're always tryin' to waste me
And make me burn the candle right down,
But baby, baby, I don't need no jewels in my crown.
But that's not the first song of the record, as your post implies. The albumn opens with:
I hear you talking when Im on the street,
Your mouth dont move but I can hear you speak.
700 bad ones. And Who Are You is the worst song ever, period. It jumps all over the place, and each place it
jumps to is more painfully bad than the previous one...listen to it some time. Its incredibly awful.
I mean, they're not worse than Boston.
The attitude in the song between rock star and fan could also cross over to baseball as well.
I'm on board with 41. Pretty much every note Husker Du released between 1983 and 1987 gets love from me, and "Eight Miles High" is my single favorite audio recording, period. (An mp3 of John Rooney and Ed Farmer calling game four of the 2005 World Series is #2.)
New Day Rising is the best horribly recorded album I've ever heard. NASTY sounding, but so powerful and full of hooks.
I like that a thread about the Who morphed into a discussion of Husker Du.
A large part of my lack of enthusiasm for much of The Who's stuff is Daltrey's vocals, I guess. I'm not a fan, at least as of most anything he sang on post-'67 or so.
Actually, it became a thread about The Jam right off the bat ...
Lassus -- bet Bob Mould or Grant Hart would be willing to comfort you over their breakup.
What's second base with another guy?
Trying to provoke me, Repoz? :)
Pure torture.
I'd let either of the Deal sisters, Alannah Currie, Liz Phair, Sugarcubes-era Bjork, Kira, and Janis Tanaka (to name a few off the top of my head) get as far as they damn like.
I'd have given Ian Curtis a hug if it would have helped.
The subtext of most rock threads is #### worship.
Bob Mould could probably get pretty far if he got me drunk. But since he's forsworn alcohol...
Pete Townshend's another story.
You have to think that Harvey would be in the sex HOM in the "IBNTBM (insane but not to be missed)" metric.
I don't think they're the same posters. If I'm not mistaken, Buck here had been Loose Nuts until yesterday.
Paint it black.
I love Wire, and as much as I love Pink Flag, I think I prefer The Ideal Copy, with the Snakedrill EP. Those songs are all over the place. "A Serious of Snakes" is incredible.
That would have made him even more tortured and confused. What he needed was a divorce.
You Devils!
Bob was easy - the non-gender-specific love songs gave it away. But Grant wrote songs about girls, so it never occurred to me at the time...
Robert Forster's cover version is even better, fwiw.
I agree with this for the most part. I thought more of Sugar than just "enjoy" and I know that there is some Mould solo work that's been good here and there that I can't really remember, but overall - like almost every other music act in the history of history - he hit a definite decline phase.
C'mon, you may feel loyalty to Husker Du, but Workbook is a great album.
I love Wire, and I love their early work, but The Ideal Copy is excellent, and conjures more nostalgia for me.
I really dislike Mould's post-Du work and think Hart's is much better. Intolerance is an excellent album, and I like Nova Mob's 1st. I don't recall Hart writing a lot of songs about girls; he wrote some for certain ("Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill"), but some (eg "Green Eyes" - now that conjures a [gender very specific] memory for me!) are gender unspecific, IIRC.
It's on his covers album, I Had a New York Girlfriend.
Maybe not a lot, per se, but enough so that questions about his sexual orientation never occurred to me. As I noted above, my favorite Husker Du album is New Day Rising, and my two favorite Hart songs on that one, "The Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill", and "Books About UFOs", are both portraits of women.
I actually like a lot of Mould's post-Husker work, although I agree it's a step down. I don't care much for Beaster, but the two full Sugar albums are excellent, and there are enough gems scattered in the solo albums to make them worthwhile. And I love his two Richard Thompson covers, "Turning of the Tide" and "Shoot Out the Lights".
Yes, but that doesn't hold true for songs. "Kidney Bingos" is my favorite Wire song, no matter how different it sounds from the rest of their work. It's an absolutely perfect pop song, and it seemed to come out of nowhere.
Hu-Du were a weird lot (wrestled with hardcore/wrestled with drugs/wrestled with Zines/wrestled with sexuality/wrestled with pop/wrestled with drinking/wrestled with Kent Hrbek's value/wrestled with wrestling)...I remember once during a tandumb interview with Mould, we asked him if he was a Democrat or a Republican and he answered "Well, we live in a Rupublic."
I'm pretty sure that's where RuPaul came from.
/Repoz wrestled with spelling/
Every time Wire's come back from time off, they've put out a strong record. Snakedrill and Read and Burn 01 are both amongst their best work, and so far Read and Burn 03 and the new album are sounding pretty good to me.
Worst Wire album? Manscape. It's the only one I don't like.
But sides 1, 3, and 4 of Zen Arcade are flawless genius. How many bands could put out a 12 minute JAZZ-HARDCORE FUSION INSTRUMENTAL and make it interesting for every second of its running time? So far I can think of only one. And for the record, the best song on Zen Arcade is either "Chartered Trips" (with the greatest riff Bob Mould ever wrote) or "Newest Industry." Though "Eight Miles High" should have been included...it's nearly as good.
I don't think that any band who could put out songs such as "Hardly Getting Over It", "Sorry Somehow", "Could You Be the One", and "No Reservations" were anywhere close to losing the plot.
On another note, regarding their sexuality, it's interesting that vortex found Hart's sexuality more puzzling, when it was the total opposite publicly, IIRC. When the Du played at UVa (during their last tour), Hart had his beau with him. Mould, if memory serves, was much more private - and maybe conflicted - about his sexuality.
That's true. I read an interview where Hart said that exact thing. He was openly gay for quite some time, while Bob had a lot more difficulty coming out.
Would I be crazy to suggest that the Replacements are the better band?
Yes. They're not. The Replacements are good, but not HD level.
I've always been sorta fond of Hootenanny though.
EDIT: FWIW, I'm listening to Warehouse right now. It's better than I remembered it being.
I find Grant's stuff significantly stronger on that album. "Turn it Around?" Blow it out your arse, Bob. I mean, WTF is that shite?
They were a different thing entirely, and in my mind not susceptible to a "better" or "worse" designation. They weren't really comparable. This is kind of how I feel about the Rock and Roll Hall of Stupidity.
As long as we're sticking in Minnesota, there's a great song from Trip Shakespeare's "Lulu" that has a great wordplay about how incredible Husker Du was for us kids at the time.
Lonely when I hear the band
That use to play when we were looking for music
Lonely when I hear the band
Do you remember, do you recall?
Remember when you held my hand, you used to say, I love them so much
Lonely when I hear the band
Do you remember, do you recall?
(I admit bias, Trip Shakespeare is one of my favorite bands of all time.)
"Real World" is a badass song, by the way. Their first truly mature work. (Maybe their second - "Everything Falls Apart" is probably the first.)
I don't know. OTOH, I agree this is highly subjective and I understand anyone's preference of the Mats over the Du; they're not for everyone. OTOH, in terms of influence, in terms of mind-blowing, genre busting music, in terms of consistency and craft I think HD blows the Mats out of the water. The Mats were fun as hell and wrote some great music. But they were just another fun band. Husker Du was something else entirely. They were what much of the press thought Nirvana was, but few of them were paying attention (Cobain was, of course, as was Frank Black).
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