How stranger, then, that I've never been able to get into The Pixies and don't much care for Nirvana. I fully understand what Nirvana is about - I'm just not as impressed as I apparently should be - but I have this nagging feeling that I'm missing the point w/r/t The Pixies.

I never got into Nirvana at all. I mentioned that only to show the influence. I recall reading some comments he made about HD. The Pixies, however, I liked quite a bit and it's clear that FB was influenced, though I never read him say that.

Would I be crazy to suggest that the Replacements are the better band?

Apples and oranges. And a band is not merely a collection of albums or tracks. And the albums after PTMM were basically Westerberg solo albums. All Shook Down contains some good songs, but it wasn't the 'Mats.

Rock criticism is bogus.

Loved Nirvana, never really got into the Pixies either, Esoteric.

Our big joke for awhile was that for a certain time there was SO MUCH PIXIES music and hype in Boston/New England (and upstate NY State on the eastern edge is New England, but that's another argument) that every single time someone we knew was going to see a band, our response would be "Who, the Pixies? Are the Pixies playing? Oh, the Pixies, etc. etc." It worked especially well in Boston and we carried it out to Portland with us. Never got old. At least for us.

The pot in Portland may have helped that joke's longevity.

And a band is not merely a collection of albums or tracks.

Actually, let's be honest: yeah it is. Anyone who loves or praises a band on the grounds of the "lifestyle" they led or ethos associated with it or personal effect it had upon them at a time and place is basically bloviating. I mean, these can be interesting little anecdotes, but they're worse than worthless when it comes to ascertaining the lasting merit of a group.

A band is never, ever, ever anything more than the music it creates. Now that doesn't have to be strictly on studio albums or singles, or whatever - as a Deadhead I'd be a hypocrite to rule out the concert experience as hugely relevant, but it damn well better come through on tape. Don't give me any of this "you had to be there man" crap.

I'm not talking about lifestyle crap, I'm talking about live musical performance, and that's more than what can be caught on tape. For instance, no way you can truly understand the Sex Pistols by anything captured in the recording process.

The best damned show I ever saw was Jason and the Scorchers and nothing on record does much for me.

None of this is to say recorded music can't be awesome, and that recording isn't an art in its own right, but live rock performance is about band, audience and music all coming together in one moment.

The ruling god of rock is Dionysus, not Apollo.

On another note, regarding their sexuality, it's interesting that vortex found Hart's sexuality more puzzling, when it was the total opposite publicly, IIRC. When the Du played at UVa (during their last tour), Hart had his beau with him. Mould, if memory serves, was much more private - and maybe conflicted - about his sexuality.

I'm sure that's true, I just wasn't aware of it at the time. It was actually a woman friend who pointed out Mould's lack of gender-specific pronouns in his relationship songs, and suggested to me that he was gay. Hart may have been openly gay, but I just never picked up on it. I did see them in Seattle in '85 and '87, but never saw anything that would be a clue.

Mould was outed against his will in the early 1990s, and made a comment to the effect of not wanting to be a poster boy for gay rights. He values his privacy, and I respect that. I interviewed him in 1993, not that long after he had been outed, and didn't ask any questions about it. I figured if he wanted to talk about it, he would, and as it turned out, he didn't. Great guy to interview, though - one of the nicest musicians I've ever encounted. I also interviewed Hart in 1987, and that was considerably more of a chore, although knowing what the band was going through at the time, I understand why...

I loved Husker Du, the Replacements, The Pixies and Nirvana, all of them...I'd rank them:

1. Husker Du
2. Replacements
3. Nirvana
4. Pixies

So I listened to New Day Rising again. As it moved through the first few songs, I thought to myself wow, I have seriously underestimated this record. The title track is a legendary drone-rock mantra; "The Girl Who Lives On Heaven Hill" finally snapped into place for me (I never really enjoyed it all that much before); "I Apologize" and "Folklore" perfectly express how the Huskers can be shamelessly poppy and unrepentantly arty without missing a step; "If I Told You" better than I expected from a song I had almost no memory of; "Celebrated Summer" is "Celebrated Summer" - the greatest single song Husker Du ever recorded.

But Jesus Christ does this album ever fall apart after that. The second half is massively disappointing after that. "Perfect Example?" What kind of joke singing is this? "Terms Of Psychic Warfare?" "How To Skin A Cat?" The generic "59 Times The Pain" and "Whatcha Drinkin'?" It's stunning how New Day Rising absolutely plummets straight off a cliff in its second side, which is totally worthless except for "Books About UFOs." So my opinion of the album remains the same as before: half genius, half disaster. That genius half though...I would sell nonessential organs to have written songs like "Celebrated Summer," "I Apologize" and "Folklore."

It's also one of the worst-produced albums I have ever heard. It's not just that it's terribly recorded; it's that the guitar tone actually becomes PAINFUL after awhile because of the tinniness with which it was set down on tape. My god what I would give for the Huskers to have been professionally recorded from 1983-1986.

"Celebrated Summer" is "Celebrated Summer" - the greatest single song Husker Du ever recorded.

Agree completely. Mould's solo is one of the most intense I've ever heard...

It's also one of the worst-produced albums I have ever heard. It's not just that it's terribly recorded; it's that the guitar tone actually becomes PAINFUL after awhile because of the tinniness with which it was set down on tape.

I bought this album when I was in high school (which is to say, 10 years ago) but I couldn't get into it. The awful sound quality was one of the reasons. But I'm going to try again now.

108 - Jesus, I had completely forgotten about Jason & The Scorchers. I saw them open for Neil Young when he was touring with his country band The International Harvesters. Jason rocked the hell out of the auditorium, but you're right about his recordings other than Empty Whiskey Glass which is a timeless classic IMO.

With regard to the Mats v Husker, I guess part of me just enjoyed the Mats more than the Huskers. I think you can stack up Hootenanny/Let It Be/Tim/Pleased to Meet Me against a four album run by almost anyone else in my book. Not to fall into the 'had to be there' routine, but the time of my life when I discovered those records (Let it Be came out when I was a soph in college and just started at the local record shop) was just perfect. The summer of 84 was unbelievable with Let It Be, Zen Arcade, Meat Puppets II, and Double Nickels on the Dime dominating the turntable at the shop in Gainesville, FLA where I worked.

I saw the Scorchers in NO, I think at Tipitina's. I said it before, but Warner Hodges is one of the best unknown rock guitarists of all time.

To continue with the theme I started above, seeing rock music live is like taking drugs -- set and setting are very important. I've seen rock shows all over the country, from Cat's Cradle to Knitting Factory to open air shows in Central and Golden Gate Parks, but nothing beats New Orleans, from Tipitina's to JazzFest to little clubs all over town. Around the same time, I saw Chuck Berry do a blazing rendition of Johnny B. Goode at UNO that his amp caught on fire.

That's the city I'd live in over all those mentioned on the other thread, post-Katrina devastation and all.

Saw Jason and the Scorchers in....... 1985 I think. In a gymnasium in Utica.