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Thursday, November 26, 2009

CStB: Kernan : Boston’s ‘04 & ‘07 W.S. Rings Were Manny-Enhanced

Yeeeah!...Nicer find than dementalized Ian Svenonius interviews!

NY Post competitor Kevin Kernan remains unimpressed with a Boston’s postseason success this past decade, ranking the Red Sox at no. 10 in his Top 11 Overrated Teams (”Model franchise for stat geeks, authors, wannabe sportswriters and front office people, but it seems they can’t win a World Series without Manny over the past kajillion years”)

They have only two championships over the last billion years, and both came with Manny on the team. They’ve gone nowhere since he left, yet through the ages, trillions of books and postings and articles and twitters and Bill James’ ravings have been written about the brilliance of the Red Sox. It was a beefed up Manny that made the difference for that team that finally enabled them to win some championships. Without Manny they would have missed out.

Kernan’s a busy guy and it’s the day before a holiday, so he can’t really be expected to ponder how well the Yankees would’ve fared in the PED era had they been been denied the services of Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Alex Rodriguez, and uh, Jose Canseco.  The Bombers get a pass for Giambi, though ; they never won a World Series with Mr. Comeback (From Something Or Other) Player Of The Year on their roster.

Repoz Posted: November 26, 2009 at 02:13 PM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, red sox, yankees

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   1. ekogan Posted: November 26, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3397279)
The solution is simple: put dreadlock wigs on the 2004 & 2007 Championship displays in Fenway, so that everyone'd know they weren't Champ-ionships, they were Manny-ionships.
   2. Lassus Posted: November 26, 2009 at 03:34 PM (#3397286)
Hmmmm.... I'm making turkey instead of fish today, but I have some week-old rotten cod that needs wrapping.
   3. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: November 26, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3397288)
If "going nowhere" is a 2008 Game 7 ALCS appearance, and a 2009 95-win playoff appearance, than most teams are very, very far from even "going nowhere" the last few years.

And, while the Red Sox may have won two WS with PED player(s), the Yankees were not winning the World Series with PED players. How is this better?
   4. Autobahn Posted: November 26, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3397292)
And, while the Red Sox may have won two WS with PED player(s), the Yankees were not winning the World Series with PED players. How is this better?


Because losing whilst cheating is simply marked down to karmic retribution, whereas if you win whilst cheating you mess up all the writer's stock cliches about the winners being heroes with great character, determination, etc, etc.

I'm tempted to say it kinda mirrors the whole American dream ideal, but i'm not sure if i'm trying to draw too big a picture there.
   5. Koot Posted: November 26, 2009 at 05:05 PM (#3397325)
And, while the Red Sox may have won two WS with PED player(s), the Yankees were not winning the World Series with PED players. How is this better?


That's crazy, because I swear, I saw Alex Rodriguez, admitted PED user, in a Yankee uniform, during their 2009 Championship Season. And, I thought I saw other admitted HGH user Andy Petitte as well. I know they didn't test positive for anything in 2009... but... Manny did not test postive for anything in 2004 or 2007.
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 26, 2009 at 06:02 PM (#3397354)
No reason to pick on Manny and give Ortiz a pass. However, the "blame game" is pretty subjective. No one knows what everyone was doing or whether the results would have been different even with 100% effective enforcement - which probably would have grandfathered in the "red juice" in homage to the simpler times of the 1950s, 60s, 70s & 80s.
   7. TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky" Posted: November 26, 2009 at 06:29 PM (#3397359)
What anger! If your team just won the Series, there's no reason to try to delegitimize championships won by other teams. Particularly if there's reason to believe that your achievement may not be squeaky clean.

But I would like to point out that Kernan himself never mentioned PEDs. I read his screed as "without this historically great player, the Sox wouldn't have won." I think you could point out that the Yankees haven't won one without significant contributions from Mariano Rivera since the Seventies.

The Mets haven't won one without Mookie Wilson in a long time.
   8. jwb Posted: November 26, 2009 at 07:47 PM (#3397381)
Newsflash! World Series winners have Hall of Fame players and managers! All World Series winners before 1990 have at least one and all since have at least one viable candidate, except maybe the 2002 Angels.
   9. TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky" Posted: November 26, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3397382)
I'll bet a dollar that Scioscia gets in eventually.
   10. pkb33 Posted: November 26, 2009 at 08:17 PM (#3397392)
But I would like to point out that Kernan himself never mentioned PEDs.

I disagree. What exactly do you think the phrase 'beefed up Manny' was supposed to allude to, then?

Seems to me that Kernan's point was clear, and as several have noted, silly. There's good reason to wonder whether ANY championship in the last 15 years was won without PED-influenced players and also, given that, whether it really matters.
   11. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: November 26, 2009 at 08:22 PM (#3397396)
The idea that the Yankees had no players doing steroids during their 9-year World Series draught is laughable on its face. Every team had steroids users. Even the Pirates.
   12. TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky" Posted: November 26, 2009 at 08:29 PM (#3397397)
What exactly do you think the phrase 'beefed up Manny' was supposed to allude to, then?


You're probably right. But even for this board, it's a lot of attention paid to an offhand comment in an article about something else by a deadline-motivated hack.

12 thanksgiving posts = 120 normal weekday posts.
   13. pkb33 Posted: November 26, 2009 at 08:41 PM (#3397399)
You're probably right. But even for this board, it's a lot of attention paid to an offhand comment in an article about something else by a deadline-motivated hack.

Better that than posting without even reading the excerpt, I'd say.
   14. Tuque Posted: November 26, 2009 at 09:25 PM (#3397415)
Boston’s ‘04 & ‘07 W.S. Rings Were Manny-Enhanced

And your mouth would be enhanced by my #### in it.
   15. Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 26, 2009 at 09:47 PM (#3397426)
yes! a steroids(PED) thread...I've been missing these. Maybe toss in a bit of A-rod and something about some player with declining skills about working out over the coming winter to show up to spring training in the "best shape of his life" and it's the holy trinity of baseball articles/blogs.
   16. Nasty Nate Posted: November 27, 2009 at 05:04 PM (#3397645)
They have only two championships over the last billion years


nothing wrong with that sentence. But if you write or say it, I don't want to hear about 27 championships etc etc. If the 1910's don't count then neither do the 1920's.

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