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Friday, May 10, 2019

Cubs 2B Russell on boos at Wrigley: ‘That’s on them’

Chicago Cubs second baseman Addison Russell returned from a 40-game suspension for violating Major League Baseball’s domestic-violence policy on Wednesday and heard a chorus of boos from the home crowd at Wrigley Field.

“I’m a baseball player for the Chicago Cubs,” he told the Chicago Sun-Times. “I’m one of the dudes in this clubhouse. I’m one of the guys who goes out there and puts his (body) on the line. We do it because we love it. We want to win, and we want to bring another championship to Chicago. And if hometown fans want to boo someone that’s trying to help bring the team a World Series again, then that’s on them.”

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:18 AM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: addison russell, chicago, chicago cubs, cubs, fans, general

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   1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:43 AM (#5840627)
Props to the Cubs fans who booed Russell.

His statement there seems pretty impressively tone-deaf.
   2. Man o' Schwar Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:48 AM (#5840629)
His statement there seems pretty impressively tone-deaf.

Yeah, that's definitely the wrong approach. He needed to go with something along the lines of "I know I made some mistakes, and I will do what I can to earn back Cubs fans through my actions on and off the field."
   3. RoyalFlush Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5840631)
I think it's time we all take a step back and truly appreciate these heroes for the sacrifice they make in exchange for nearly no compensation or recognition.

Is there no "hero" tag on this site?
   4. jmurph Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5840637)
Guys he puts his body on the line. ON THE LINE.
   5. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5840639)
that’s on them.”


Well, actually, technically, when you actually think about it ... it is. They're the ones doing the booing, so almost by definition the booing is "on them."
   6. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:58 AM (#5840640)
Yeah, that's definitely the wrong approach. He needed to go with something along the lines of "I know I made some mistakes, and I will do what I can to earn back Cubs fans through my actions on and off the field."
Thirded. This doesn't exactly rebut the skepticism that he is truly a changed man.
   7. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 11:59 AM (#5840641)
He needed to go with something along the lines of "I know I made some mistakes, and I will do what I can to earn back Cubs fans through my actions on and off the field."


Right, but that would have been fake. What's the point of the guy uttering a fake statement? And more to the point, what's the point of affirmatively yearning for him to utter a fake statement?

We're kinda sorta getting back into Ye Ole Narcissism again, aren't we?
   8. Spahn Insane Posted: May 10, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5840654)
Just dump him already.
   9. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5840656)
Just dump him already.


Oh, don't worry, they will ... if he doesn't hit anyway. And if they do if he doesn't hit, they'll say it was because of the woman beating. But that will be fake, too.

And I doubt he'll even get much grief on the road, unlike, say, the Islanders' Denis Potvin who was routinely bombarded at MSG by a cavalcade of derisive, "Beat your wife, Potvin, beat your wife" cheers in the late 80s.
   10. Spahn Insane Posted: May 10, 2019 at 12:28 PM (#5840657)
6:

All that, and there's his statement at time of his callup, which in listing the people he'd let down conspicuously omitted his ex-wife. I realize the statement was probably written by a lawyer precisely to avoid saying anything that might constitute an admission that could be used against him in a criminal case, but that makes it sound no less tone deaf.
   11. Itchy Row Posted: May 10, 2019 at 12:29 PM (#5840658)
He's already been demoted from shortstop to second. Hasn't he suffered enough?
   12. Rusty Priske Posted: May 10, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5840667)
Oh, don't worry, they will ...


For the same reason Roberto Osuna doesn't have work.

Oh wait.

   13. The Duke Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:06 PM (#5840683)
Only so much apologizing you can do. Just get on with it and let the chips fall where they may. There’s nothing he can ever say or do to change one person’s mind. Use it as motivation and move on. He’s always going to be booed. The only way he changes the dynamic is .300/.400/.500. Everyone loves a winner - just ask ted Kennedy
   14. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:15 PM (#5840685)
Thirded. This doesn't exactly rebut the skepticism that he is truly a changed man.

Beyond that, repeatedly positioning himself as the victim in all this is so off-putting.
   15. JAHV Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5840687)
Only so much apologizing you can do. Just get on with it and let the chips fall where they may. There’s nothing he can ever say or do to change one person’s mind. Use it as motivation and move on. He’s always going to be booed. The only way he changes the dynamic is .300/.400/.500. Everyone loves a winner - just ask ted Kennedy


That's not true, though. What is the limit on the amount of apologizing one can do? Last I checked, there was no law, natural or man-made, defining excess contrition. Addison screwed up really, really badly, to the point where there's a legitimate question as to whether the Cubs (or any MLB team) should even continue to employ him. He works in an industry where his job is to entertain fans. I posit that there is no limit on the amount of apologizing he should do. It costs him exactly nothing to be contrite.

Unless, of course, he's not actually sorry and apologizing is somehow painful to him due to the hit he has to take to his pride. In which case, that's a price the Cubs should force him to pay, and my advice to him is to suck it up. He's getting paid a lot of money despite being a complete a-hole.
   16. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:21 PM (#5840688)
Only so much apologizing you can do.

Which in Russell's case, is zero.
   17. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5840689)
Forget the apologizing. He could do himself a massive favor by just shutting up. Instead he seems determined to make everyone recognize his personal struggle against adversity.
   18. Blastin Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5840692)
Instead he seems determined to make everyone recognize his personal struggle against adversity.


Because he's an entitled and violent jerk. If he were capable of that sort of introspection and reflection, seems like he wouldn't have done any of what he did.
   19. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:47 PM (#5840697)
I'd much rather him just be outwardly antagonistic over this passive aggressive horse ####.
   20. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5840702)
Sorry, Cubs fans -- your team and your "progressive, woke" GM are willfully employing and trotting out an unrepentant, multiple-episode, wife beater. Even a scripted, fake apology wouldn't really change that -- but you're not even going to get that figleaf to hang your hats on. At this point, that unfortunate fact is crystal clear and can't really be changed.
   21. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5840704)
Even a scripted, fake apology wouldn't really change that -- but you're not even going to get that figleaf to hang your hats on.
You're clearly just making this interpretation so you can go on with your schtick, but just for the record (and as is clear from the context here), we don't want a scripted, fake apology. What we want is for the guy to actually be repentant and genuinely apologetic. Unfortunately I have to agree that that doesn't appear to be the case.
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 10, 2019 at 01:59 PM (#5840706)
Russell is a bit of an #######. All MLB teams should release all ########.
   23. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:05 PM (#5840709)
Russell is a bit of an #######. All MLB teams should release all ########.

Maybe there should be an ####### tax incorporated in the luxury tax calculation.

Like if a guy beat his wife his salary counts against the tax at 150%. If he has a DWI it counts at 125%, a 2nd DWI it's 150%.
   24. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:07 PM (#5840712)
Please don't indulge him, Elroy.
   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:08 PM (#5840715)
I know, I know. It's that lawyer instinct - sometimes I can't help correcting the record.
   26. BrianBrianson Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:36 PM (#5840729)
I posit that there is no limit on the amount of apologizing he should do. It costs him exactly nothing to be contrite.


This is technically true, but the point is more like his apologising won't change anything, or earn him any meaningful amount of goodwill, so there's little value in it.
   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:43 PM (#5840735)
Because he's an entitled and violent jerk. If he were capable of that sort of introspection and reflection, seems like he wouldn't have done any of what he did.
That is what it's looking like here, sadly, and there is certainly a basic logic to your second sentence. But doesn't it imply that violent criminals can never really be rehabilitated and learn through introspection to be better people? Is that what you mean to imply?
   28. A triple short of the cycle Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5840741)
So glad the A's traded this guy, I would not feel good rooting for him.
   29. bunyon Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:55 PM (#5840743)
That is what it's looking like here, sadly, and there is certainly a basic logic to your second sentence. But doesn't it imply that violent criminals can never really be rehabilitated and learn through introspection to be better people? Is that what you mean to imply?

I think it depends on the type of violence. Someone who abuses kids are the people they love are in a different category than someone who employs violence for a living (or to survive on the street). The latter, it seems to me, could be rehabbed. But the former are likely broken in a more fundamental way. Yet, we, as a society, act as if the reverse is true.

And, of course, there is a lot of crossover in these groups.


Anyway, there really isn't anything he could say. All he can do is act. We'll never truly know if he's overcome his violent ways but we'll know certainly (and, likely, soon) if he hasn't.
   30. Lassus Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5840744)
FYI, Elroy, I wrote you a message through the site's email the other day. Let me know if you didn't get it. Or check your spam or something.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:56 PM (#5840745)
In retrospect, I wonder if the A's might have had some concerns - trading a prospect at his level for half a season of Hammel and Samardzija raised some eyebrows.
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5840747)
FYI, Elroy, I wrote you a message through the site's email the other day. Let me know if you didn't get it. Or check your spam or something.
Huh - no, it doesn't look like I received it (did you reference your username? "Lassus" isn't coming up in a search"). Just sent you my email address through your site email so you can resend if you want. Thanks!
   33. Blastin Posted: May 10, 2019 at 02:59 PM (#5840749)
But doesn't it imply that violent criminals can never really be rehabilitated and learn through introspection to be better people? Is that what you mean to imply?


They can be, with intense and comprehensive treatment, along with the first step, contrition.

My uncle was in prison most of my life. I haven't a clue if he still has Bad Thoughts but he's always been contrite so I've chosen to have a (distant) relationship with him and my family invites him to events.
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:01 PM (#5840753)
I think it depends on the type of violence. Someone who abuses kids are the people they love are in a different category than someone who employs violence for a living (or to survive on the street). The latter, it seems to me, could be rehabbed. But the former are likely broken in a more fundamental way. Yet, we, as a society, act as if the reverse is true.
This is an interesting point.
   35. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:03 PM (#5840756)
You're clearly just making this interpretation so you can go on with your schtick,


?

It's exactly the state of the current record. You wanted a real apology, it wasn't forthcoming. So any apology you can possibly want now would be fake. Are you saying you agree that the moment's passed and you don't care one way or another now whether he "apologizes"? If I've misread and that's your position, my bad -- but it didn't look that way.

And of course the first part of my "interpretation" is completely correct. The Cubs are trotting out an unrepentant wife beater. Unless Epstein has been overruled by ownership or something, he supports the decision. He was likely the one who made it.
   36. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:08 PM (#5840760)
I'm saying you were being overly literal in interpreting the "he should have gone with..." posts to mean that people wanted a fake apology, and that was for the purposes of continuing your schtick on this topic. No one wants a fake apology - those posts were expressing a desire for an apology *and* for that apology to be genuine. But yeah, the possibility that there is any genuine contrition there does seem to be diminishing just about every time he opens his mouth (to say something not written by his agent or lawyer). If he starts saying the "right things" now, it would probably come across as scripted damage control.
   37. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:27 PM (#5840768)
Please don't indulge him, Elroy.
   38. akrasian Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5840773)
If he starts saying the "right things" now, it would probably come across as scripted damage control.

Yeah, but a realization that he needs scripted damage control - followed by keeping his mouth shut - would be better than his current comments, where he is basically playing a victim card, even though he is the exact opposite of the victim.
   39. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:41 PM (#5840775)
We all would like to see genuine contrition and an actual change in mindset.

But, given that it appears that Addison is unable to do either of these, what is the expectation? That he can't play baseball any more? Or that he can play but gets booed or jeered?

As a Cub fan, I guess I'll mildly applause when he does something well.

What if he hits another giant grand slam in the World Series? Hoo boy.

   40. SoSH U at work Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:44 PM (#5840776)
Or that he can play but gets booed or jeered?


What would be the problem with that?

   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:46 PM (#5840778)
Yeah, but a realization that he needs scripted damage control - followed by keeping his mouth shut - would be better than his current comments, where he is basically playing a victim card, even though he is the exact opposite of the victim.
Fair point.
   42. Blastin Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:47 PM (#5840779)

What would be the problem with that?


Yep.

   43. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 10, 2019 at 03:48 PM (#5840780)
What would be the problem with that?


I wouldn't have a problem with that. I just wondered what everyone thought, given that he is who he is.
   44. JAHV Posted: May 10, 2019 at 04:06 PM (#5840788)
This is technically true, but the point is more like his apologising won't change anything, or earn him any meaningful amount of goodwill, so there's little value in it.


Of course, all the apologizing in the world won't matter if he doesn't change his behavior, but I think it could certainly earn him some goodwill, if he consistently displayed humility and remorse. These things should go hand in hand - as Elroy is saying, I'm not looking for fake apologies, although that at least would be, as akrasian noted, an admission that contrition is necessary. But actual contrition would likely be accompanied by a change in behavior, and that's good for everyone involved. Repeated enough, I think that would gradually improve fans' perception of him.
   45. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5840794)

His statement there seems pretty impressively tone-deaf.


It's not even his most tone-deaf statement of the week!
   46. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 04:17 PM (#5840795)
I'm saying you were being overly literal in interpreting the "he should have gone with..." posts to mean that people wanted a fake apology, and that was for the purposes of continuing your schtick on this topic.


OK, I didn't communicate successfully then. What I meant was that any apology he'd give now, or would have given before given what we know now, would be fake. And I wondered why people would want such a fake apology, without knowing for sure whether they did. I really did mean, "Why would you want one?" in a literal, not accusatory, sense. It might have sounded otherwise, but that's the internet for you.

   47. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 04:48 PM (#5840816)
Maybe there should be an ####### tax incorporated in the luxury tax calculation.

Like if a guy beat his wife his salary counts against the tax at 150%. If he has a DWI it counts at 125%, a 2nd DWI it's 150%.


This idea has been floated, but it should only be if you get the guy at a discount because you're one of the few teams willing to "take a chance" on him. The Chiefs got Tyreek Hill in the fifth round even though he's a first round talent, because he was a woman beater. The idea would be that if he relapses (*) you have to pay a make-good on the advantage you got. Draft choices, lost salary cap room, etc.

I'm not sure the Cubs got a similar advantage with Russell, but it might be workable even if they didn't. If you play a known wife beater, you lose three first round draft picks or something. Details can be worked out, but the principle certainly works.

(*) Or I suppose even if he doesn't.
   48. geonose Posted: May 10, 2019 at 05:20 PM (#5840831)
   49. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5840834)
Last quote of the article linked in 48:

"There's going to be a lot more adversity moving forward, for sure," he said.

Man. He just can't not.
   50. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: May 10, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5840837)
Man, I don't think that's even the worst Russell quote in that article. The implications of "It's a goal to get the respect of the fans back. I just wish it could be on different terms." are actually kind of chilling, if you think about it.
   51. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 06:01 PM (#5840845)
Whether or not Russell falls into this category, some people never really do have remorse for stuff like this. Seemingly not being willing to even engage in the PR pretext of showing it when not showing it could potentially cost you millions of dollars is a decent sign you might fall into the category.
   52. My name is RMc and I feel extremely affected Posted: May 10, 2019 at 07:21 PM (#5840860)
Like if a guy beat his wife his salary counts against the tax at 150%. If he has a DWI it counts at 125%, a 2nd DWI it's 150%.

And if he has the wrong politics, 1000%.
   53. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: May 10, 2019 at 07:23 PM (#5840861)
In retrospect, I wonder if the A's might have had some concerns - trading a prospect at his level for half a season of Hammel and Samardzija raised some eyebrows.


I have no idea, but it did lead me to reconsider the Russell trade.

Semien (15-18, OAK): 11 bWAR, 2300 PA, FA in '21
Russell (15-18, CHN): 12 bWAR, 1970 PA, FA in '22

On net, the A's traded Russell + spare parts (credit the Cubs for making good use of those parts) for half a season of pennant race high-leverage Hammel and Samardjzia starts and a not-as-good-as-Russell-but-better-than-you-think SS + spare parts.

I won't defend the trade in its entirety but it turned out much better for the A's than I imagined it would.

   54. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 10, 2019 at 07:23 PM (#5840862)
Cubs’ 2B Russell Apparently Unaware of First Law of Holes
   55. JAHV Posted: May 10, 2019 at 07:30 PM (#5840866)
The implications of "It's a goal to get the respect of the fans back. I just wish it could be on different terms." are actually kind of chilling, if you think about it.


What does he even mean by "wish[ing] it could be on different terms"? In most circumstances, when an athlete is being interviewed, I give them the benefit of the doubt. These guys are not professional speakers. If I were inclined to give Addison as much benefit of the doubt as possible, I would assume he meant that he regrets his actions and wishes there were less serious sins to atone for in re-earning the respect of fans. I am not inclined to give Russell any benefit of the doubt, so I have to assume he is still playing the victim card and is insinuating that fans are treating him unfairly - that fans are wrong to hold his actions against him. His statement later, as quoted by Elroy, certainly indicates that he's not giving up his perceived victimhood.

I don't know that it makes sense to try to parse the speech of an unrepentant jackass, but if anyone is so inclined, I am curious to know what you think he means by "on different terms."
   56. dejarouehg Posted: May 10, 2019 at 07:36 PM (#5840870)
I don't think he owes the fans anything and vice-versa. Domestic issues are just that. Just because he's a public figure shouldn't mean that his family issues are or should be any of our business nor should he be held to a higher standard than a co-worker whose domestic problems you know nothing about.

That said, I have nothing but contempt for the s.o.b. and, as a Cubs fan, would be thrilled if they severed ties altogether. Absent self-defense, you have to be the world's biggest d-bag/coward to hit a woman or child.
   57. Baldrick Posted: May 10, 2019 at 08:26 PM (#5840881)
I cannot for the life of me understand why someone would want to be able to see trollish posts from a troll, when literally clicking two buttons will make them go away forever. But if you, in your perversity, for some reason enjoy seeing terrible posts, please do the rest of us a favor by NOT REPLYING TO THEM.

As for Russell, I am a major believer in rehabilitation, and I don't think halfway rehab where you claim to want someone to change but deny them access to normal aspects of life that help ease that process. So I have a high threshold for blacklisting. But these comments are incredibly bad, and absent some significant evidence of meaningful contrition, he probably should not be employed by any professional baseball team. Of course, that's not the actual world we live in, so it's probably pointless to debate it a whole lot further than that. But I would never do anything but hope for him to fail, even if it hurt my team in a big way.
   58. . Posted: May 10, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5840896)
It's probably the blandness and pomposity of your writing that keeps you from getting all the attention you want. And it's typically more effective to show, not tell. You just sort of pronounce.
   59. The Honorable Ardo Posted: May 10, 2019 at 10:59 PM (#5840922)
Russell's statements are awful, and I'm not rooting for him, but it takes some people longer than others to "get it". Heck, Tiger Woods was basically in denial for eight years - from 2009 to 2017. Now he's a sainted public figure again.
   60. John Northey Posted: May 11, 2019 at 12:15 AM (#5840949)
I'm sure Houston or someone else will say 'who cares' and take him off the Cubs hands. Kind of sucks that Osuna is untouchable so far this year - as a Jays fan I was enjoying watching him until he beat up his girlfriend and shipped her out of country so she couldn't testify against him. Guys like that I like to see fail and was very glad the Jays dumped him on Houston - as much as I'd have loved seeing him released and out of baseball we all knew someone would want him right away so the Jays took what they could. Giles has been very good in save situations (just one blown) and a couple of spare parts in the minors.

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