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Wednesday, July 30, 2014

Cubs Acquire Felix Doubront

The Cubs have acquired Felix Doubront from the Red Sox…

The Red Sox will receive a player to be named later in return for the 26-year-old lefty, Jim Bowden of ESPN.com reports on Twitter.

The District Attorney Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:22 PM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, felix doubront, red sox, trades, transactions

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   1. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:49 PM (#4760684)
A PTBNL. They might as well have just kept him.

   2. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:50 PM (#4760685)
Given where Doubront is in his career if the Sox got themselves some Lo A lottery ticket who doesn't need to be on the 40 man for a couple of years that makes some sense. I know you won't put any stock in this but I suspect the Sox wanted in part to get him out of the clubhouse, he's been pretty vocal about being unhappy.
   3. andrewberg Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4760686)
Also opens up a 40 man spot in case they get guys in return for other trades that need to go on it.
   4. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:52 PM (#4760687)
PTBNL is to be named after Rule 5, meaning he's probably a guy who's eligible but unlikely to be drafted.
   5. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:53 PM (#4760688)
Cross-posted from the Lackey/Lester thread:

A PTBNL for Doobie.

Eh. Is Doubront worth a damn as a back-of-the-rotation/swingman type guy? If so, I suppose I'm OK with giving up a non-top-100 type prospect for him.

Part of me worries that the Cubs become so enamored of their burgeoning minor league depth that they think it's a free resource, and just start jettisoning parts of it for worthless crap.

EDIT: I should've said I'm OK with a nowhere-near-top-100 prospect being dealt.
   6. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:55 PM (#4760692)
Assuming the PTBNL is pretty much a meh nothing --- I think this is a nice little move by Thed.

I know Doubront has been - at best - an innings muncher (and if I understand correctly, a muncher - from the waistline perspective - period). But he's youngish, he throws lefty, and Thed's record on youngish reclamations is pretty damn good.

The Cubs have a few guys they want to get looks at - Hendricks looks like he's gonna stick around. I want to see Beeler. Maybe Jokisch.

Things could get a little crowded - at least until the Cubs tell Edwin Jackson that their next game is in Juneau and don't buy him a return flight....
   7. McCoy Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4760699)
The final piece!
   8. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4760701)
But he's youngish, he throws lefty, and Thed's record on youngish reclamations is pretty damn good.

Yeah, and Doubront's K rates have been pretty good, so maybe there's some unharnessed "stuff" there, a la Arrieta. I'm with you, in that I'm OK with this deal provided the PTBNL's pretty much nothing; it's not totally lacking in upside.
   9. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4760702)
My bet is that it'll be Dan Vogelbach.... I love the guy - chubby grinders with power are just fun - but there's no room for him on the Cubs. They're committed to Rizzo at 1B, Voges can't play OF, and while he's got intriguing power - it hasn't really exploded/come out yet.

   10. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 03:59 PM (#4760705)
Relatedly: I'm becoming convinced Chris Bosio's a pretty good pitching coach.
   11. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:01 PM (#4760710)
My bet is that it'll be Dan Vogelbach.... I love the guy - chubby grinders with power are just fun - but there's no room for him on the Cubs.

I'd probably be all right with that. Vogelbach was on the Cubs top-10 prospect lists until a year or so ago, but he's pretty much a man without a position even at A ball, and the Cubs have his potential spots covered. He seems a born AL prospect; he does have upside as a hitter, to frame it positively from Boston's perspective.
   12. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:03 PM (#4760714)
Doobs is a nice get for the Cubs. He was delightfully cromulent last year and has good stuff. He can be exasperating to watch when he starts nibbling but he can be effective. For a guy who should be relatively cheap for a couple more years (think he's arb-eligible this year) he's a nice grab.
   13. Brian C Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:12 PM (#4760726)
If it was Vogelbach, why not just complete the trade now? He won't be Rule 5 eligible for another year, since he signed at 18. Why wait?

   14. Nasty Nate Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:17 PM (#4760731)
If it was Vogelbach, why not just complete the trade now? He won't be Rule 5 eligible for another year, since he signed at 18. Why wait?

Maybe the Cubs gave the Sox the choice of Vogelbach or another guy - but they don't have to decide this moment.
   15. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:18 PM (#4760733)
If it was Vogelbach, why not just complete the trade now? He won't be Rule 5 eligible for another year, since he signed at 18. Why wait?


If it's the Red Sox holding it up, why not wait? If he gets hurt or something, the Cubs still hold the risk.
   16. Brian C Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:24 PM (#4760739)
If it's the Red Sox holding it up, why not wait? If he gets hurt or something, the Cubs still hold the risk.

I guess.

I think it's more likely that the deal is roughly, "we'll give you your pick of Rule 5 eligible players who don't actually get picked in the Rule 5 draft." That gives the Cubs time to figure out who they want to add to the 40-man before that time and the Sox time to search for their diamond in the rough in a deep system. And it's roughly fair value for a player that the Sox don't want but who has enough talent to not make it through waivers.
   17. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4760756)
Felix has made noise about his preference to start, and that wasn't happening in Boston. It's possible that the Red Sox are simply doing him a professional favor by moving him now before the deadline, while they still have Lester and Lackey and others to deal with. The front office is a little busy right now, and their time is probably better spent not fussing over middling Cubs prospects.
   18. Dale Sams Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4760761)
(Shrug)

Still not a fan of providing other teams with starting talent, even if they don't fit on the Sox roster.
   19. SandyRiver Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4760772)
Sometimes PTBNL means a conditional trade, as in: If Doubront is decent as a Cub this season, Sox get player X. If he continues as he's been recently, Sox get a bag of (well-scuffed) baseballs.
   20. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4760785)
I'm not totally in the know on how the AA and AAA phases of the Rule 5 work - I think it's still 5 years of service time, no? -- but Vogelbach is still stuck in high A. Not that he's stagnated or anything - he's still just 21 - but whatever...

I was just tossing Vogelbach out as a possibility because it seems like a pretty reasonable swap -- Vogelbach seems like a player that fits a need on the Sox (1B/DH type with power) farm, he's by no means an uber-valuable prospect, but he's intriguing enough and has had enough success/press (he's made two Cubs top 10 lists and he hasn't hit poorly, just not well enough to be in serious consideration for stardom) that I think it's a pretty fair deal if the Sox were just looking to dump Doubront. He also just doesn't have a future in Chicago - but wouldn't really be much except a toss-in in another deal.

Some other names on the Cubs who - depending on what happens later in the year through December regarding the 40 man - would potentially be rule 5 eligible:

- Rock Shoulders - great name, not as great power... 1B
- Anthony Giansanti - former Cubs top 10er from 2-3 years ago, he's now buried in the OF and unlikely to have a future in the org
- Carlos Penlaver - toolsy IF mired in low minors
- Pin-Chieh Chen - speedy IF/OF
- Zeke DeVos - 2B/OF that's been described as a more versatile Ryan Theriot-lite
- Excepting guys almost certain to be added to the 40 man -- there are also a few pitchers like Ivan Pinyero, Tony Zynch, Barret Loux, and Dillon Maples that are youngish enough with decent stuff to be interesting

I'm assuming the Sox are more interested in an OF or 1B/DH type....
   21. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4760791)
ESPN's top 5 ever PTBNL's:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11246571/mlb-five-top-players-named-later
   22. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4760793)
Here's a relatively current link to guys that would potentially be rule 5 eligible from the Cubs -- some of these guys (CJ Edwards, for example) will certainly be protected and handful already are (Hendricks recently graduated) -- but here's your shopping list, Sox fans.

I missed Gioskar Amaya - I think he'd be the guy I'd want - even though he's an IF (where the Sox are stacked)... He's young enough that I don't think he'd be snagged by anyone else, he's got good speed, exceptional plate control for a guy as young as he is, gap power, 2B who can play 3B and even a little SS.

   23. Brian C Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4760798)
I'm not totally in the know on how the AA and AAA phases of the Rule 5 work - I think it's still 5 years of service time, no?

It would be in Vogelbach's case, yes, since he was signed at 18. But he was signed in 2011, so this will only be his fourth Rule 5 draft since being signed.

   24. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4760800)
Vogelbach is still stuck in high A. Not that he's stagnated or anything - he's still just 21 - but whatever...

Yeah, but he's doing fairly well there with an OPS of .801. The FSL is rather pitcher-friendly. I don't know Dayton'a park factor but he's got a line of .275/.365/.436 and the league as a whole is hitting .257/.323/.369. Given his power potential, he would be a pretty interesting return for Boston even if his prospect rankings don't excite you.
   25. McCoy Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:20 PM (#4760818)
- Rock Shoulders - great name, not as great power... 1B

In my first go around with the Cubs franchise in OOTP he turned into a huge stud for me so ever after that I'd always keep an eye on him and snag him when I could when I'd play the game over again. Alas, I discovered that the minor leaguers were not fated to be great in OOTP.
   26. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4760820)
Wait, it isn't automatically Dickie Noles?
   27. I am Ted F'ing Williams Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:24 PM (#4760824)
The reason the PTBNL is after the Rule 5 draft is because the Red Sox don't want to spend a roster spot to protect him before that. And that is probably because they have a lot of irons in the fire on other trades.
   28. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4760835)
It's apparently too late to edit my prior post, and I'm sure nobody else really cares about this but...

This site tells me the Daytona Cubs are essentially a neutral park for the league but that the FSL is the lowest scoring league in all of professional affiliate baseball.
   29. Dale Sams Posted: July 30, 2014 at 05:49 PM (#4760843)
Today, the Sox settle all family business.
   30. Willie Mayspedester Posted: July 30, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4760884)
He can't pitch worse than Hammel
   31. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:05 PM (#4760932)
With their trade of Doubront today and the impending trade of Lester it will leave the Red Sox without a lefty starter in the rotation. Heard on Francesa a few days ago:

"Mike, do you know how many teams over the past twenty years have won the World Series without a lefty in the rotation?"

"I know it wasn't the Yankees."

"It was Teams X and Y." <I forget who the two teams were>

"Right, I knew it wasn't the Yankees."

"And so that just goes to show, Mike, how important left handed starters are."

"Right. They are hugely important."

Face palm. Nobody stopped to ask how many teams have gone the season without a lefty in the rotation. I imagine it is few teams. The denominator in this analysis is rather important, isn't it?
   32. McCoy Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:14 PM (#4760940)
2006 Cardinals, 2004 Red Sox, and 1993 Blue Jays?
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:14 PM (#4760941)
If only there were some notable team with an all-righty staff that beat the Yankees on the way to a championship during that time frame to help Mike remember...
   34. Ray (RDP) Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:22 PM (#4760951)
It's like saying "Only two teams have won the World Series without a pitcher in their rotation who had a vowel in his name. This just goes to show how important pitchers with vowels in their names are."
   35. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4760976)
Forget about that, it's been over 40 years since an American League team won the pennant without using a DH.
   36. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4760977)
1993 Blue Jays?


Jimmy Key wasn't there?
   37. McCoy Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:52 PM (#4760979)
Key was in NY.
   38. McCoy Posted: July 30, 2014 at 08:58 PM (#4760982)
How is Valbuena still on the team and why does it seem like no one wants him?
   39. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 09:38 PM (#4761005)

How is Valbuena still on the team and why does it seem like no one wants him?


Eh, hard for me to see anyone giving much for him... maybe prior to getting Headley, the Yankees might have tossed the Cubs a bone for purposes of IF depth. Valbuena's a quality backup IF - but he's stretched as starter on a good team (YTD 105 OPS+ notwithstanding).

I'd listen to offers, of course, but I don't mind holding onto him. He'll be arb eligible this offseason - and probably get a decent raise - but it won't be more than what, 3 million? Maybe 3.5?

He's got some pop, a plus glove, bats lefty, and the Cubs are going to have a very young IF - likely Alcantara and Bryant to go with Castro and Rizzo - next year. I think they've got another season before the IF is just too crowded to get him 2-300 PAs and justify a multi-million dollar utility player.

I think I'd personally want more than most teams would pay for him.
   40. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 09:42 PM (#4761006)
It's the lack of anything on Russell and Wesley Wright I don't get - the Cubs have a decent lefty to burn... Don't teams need to acquire LOOGY+ guys anymore?
   41. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: July 30, 2014 at 09:48 PM (#4761009)
I look forward to Felix Doubront winning the Cy Young Award next year. (Jake Arrieta will have to content himself with World Series MVP.)
   42. SteveM. Posted: July 30, 2014 at 10:44 PM (#4761045)

How is Valbuena still on the team and why does it seem like no one wants him?


The problem is that if you trade him, either Olt or I guess Baez, would have to come up. If they want to keep Bryant down until May next year, then you need someone to play 3rd. And Olt has been a fracking disaster.
   43. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 10:50 PM (#4761052)
I actually don't mind them holding onto Valbuena. His days are numbered as a regular, one hopes, but he can play second and third pretty well, has some pop and walks a lot. You can use a guy like that, even if he's not starting, long as he's cheap.

EDIT: Coke to zonk.
   44. zonk Posted: July 30, 2014 at 10:51 PM (#4761053)
Rumored Bonifacio to the Royals deal sounds dead....
   45. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2014 at 10:52 PM (#4761054)
And, as noted, Valbuena won't fetch that much in trade anyway.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: July 30, 2014 at 10:59 PM (#4761056)
Wouldn't the Giants love to have Valbuena? They're at the point where they might just elect to field 8 players instead of 9.
   47. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 31, 2014 at 01:32 AM (#4761094)
Zonk, your list in 20 is all over the place.

Giansanti was never anything for the Cubs and unless he's a coach in training may struggle to find a spot outside of indy ball soon. The rest of those guys are fast tracking to organizational ballplayers except for Zeke Devoss who was released 2 weeks ago.
   48. Norcan Posted: July 31, 2014 at 02:57 AM (#4761102)
It was exasperating to watch Doubront pitch because everything was so slow with him, the delivery, the time between pitches. With him not having the best mound composure, his games could be like slow motion crashes. So for that, I'm not unhappy he's been traded but he had some key moments in the playoffs last year, really quick, efficient, dominant performances out of the bullpen, so I wish him well. Better there than here.

I had high hopes for him after his first spring training start (must sound absurd, I know). He sported a slightly more compact arm motion that seemed to have the potential to make his release point more consistent and improve his control. I thought he could take off but then he abandoned the changes he had worked on with Juan Nieves and went back to dropping his arm as far down as he can.

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