"Anaheim? Gross. No."

Following Ron Santo's example

I wouldn't want to climb on board that sinking ship, either. He's going to get wet either way, so he might as well do it where he can sleep in his own bed.

Lee really makes no sense- he's not appreciably better than Napoli and they are both RH hitters. If the Angels are going to make a move they need a LH bat with power to make up for the loss of Kendry. It's increasingly becoming academic as far as making the playoffs, but I would prefer a smaller move like a Luke Scott or something similar.

He's going to get wet either way, so he might as well do it where he can sleep in his own bed.

Are you saying that Lee wanted a golden shower to buy out his no-trade rights?

I wouldn't want to climb on board that sinking ship, either.

Lee said he's going to veto any trade.

Are you saying that Lee wanted a golden shower to buy out his no-trade rights?

I didn't say it; you said it.

Lee said he's going to veto any trade.

A few Cosmos and a well-timed Roofie might change his mind.

Lee really makes no sense- he's not appreciably better than Napoli and they are both RH hitters

I would have assumed this move would have sent Napoli back behind the plate so Lee effectively replaces Wilson/Mathis? If you are right and that he would just replace Napoli with Napoli moving to the bench then I agree that it makes no sense.

A few Cosmos and a well-timed Roofie might change his mind.


Well it worked on your wife, right?

Lilly also won't accept a trade. So much for trying to salvage something from this season.

Lilly doesn't have a full no trade clause, though. This means he turned down a deal to Minnesota, right?

In other somewhat Cub related news, I'm arguing with this guy at work who says he would love to have Juan Pierre on his team (Tigers). "OK, yeah, he doesn't bat .300 every year." I looked it up and guess what? He doesn't!

This parlayed into my boss overhearing me and going into a rant about how Cub fans don't know anything about baseball (he's a Brewers fan).

Well it worked on your wife, right?

...snap.

Well it worked on your wife, right?

She was a cunning vixen and slipped me the mickey when I least expected it.

The point of Lee would have been put him at 1B and let Napoli spend most of his time at C ... I hope.

Scioscia finally seems to believe that Napoli should be starting nearly ever day.

Man, Aramis and D-Lee really sunk this team, didn't they? I mean, if they perform anywhere near expectations the Cubs aren't leading the division but surely they're still in it at this date.

Scioscia finally seems to believe that Napoli should be starting nearly ever day.

But he has given no indication that such would continue if Napoli only had a spot at catcher. I'm skeptical that Napoli will ever be an everyday catcher for Scioscia. I used to think he would start him upwards of 120 games back there, but now I can't even see that. Scioscia doesn't care for Napoli's catching abilities and he's not going to use a poor catcher every day. If Napoli plays everyday for the Angels I think it will be as 1B/RF/DH type with some starts at catcher mixed in.

re 17
well, aram, dlee, theriot, fukudome, zambrano, and most of the bullpen.

what is really going to screw the cubs is all the no trade clauses hendry handed out like candy. There is no way the cubs can risk offering lilly and lee arbitration at the end of this season so they won't even get picks for them.

re 19
I agree that they can't offer Lee arbitration, because he would almost certainly end up here for another year, but I'm not as sure about Lilly. I think he'll go, and even if he doesn't, he'd be a solid rotation piece. And, if they could flip Silva, which I bet they won't do because they believe he's "fixed", or if they dump Zambrano, which I figure they'll stupidly do, then he won't even be in another pitcher's way.

The Cubs should offer Lilly arb without even giving it a second thought. Worst-case scenario you end up with a good pitcher for one year at maybe $15 M -- maybe not ideal but not a big risk either. And unless they're signing Cliff Lee this offseason (which seems extremely unlikely and probably dumb), they won't do better on the FA market. If the Cubs don't offer Lilly arb, I'd take it as a sign that Ricketts is cutting payroll.

DLee we obviously have to let go.

And it is kinda too bad this trade didn't happen because it would have been interesting to see how Scioscia would have handled Napoli, Mathis, Matsui.

I'm not sure there's any reason to think that Scioscia feels any differently about Napoli. Napoli is having his typical year with the bat -- 113 OPS+ this year, 118 for his career -- and, other than the injury, Mathis is having his typical year. Scioscia always had about a 90/72 split in the Napoli/Mathis playing time before so I don't see any particularly good reason to think he'd change his mind now.

I think lilly at 15 would blow a huge hole in the cubs' budget and I also don't think they will be able to move zambrano without paying through the nose. Right now the cubs have about 20 million dollars to play with if they want to keep this year's salary. Obviously lilly at 15 would be a big deal and that is with the cubs staying at the same payroll level. Which I don't think they'll want to do.

If Napoli plays everyday for the Angels I think it will be as 1B/RF/DH type with some starts at catcher mixed in.

I agree, and I think this is what is going to happen.

Look, Matsui's gone after this year. Kendry will hopefully be fine next year. Napoli hasn't demonstrated any aversion to DHing -- it's not significant, but in 20 games as a DH in his career, he's hit 343/421/567. You slide Napoli to DH, have him catch a couple of games a week or something, let him spot Kendry at 1B when he needs a day off. Let Mathis and Conger fight it out at catcher.

This is what I see as the most likely scenario. Then you go into 2011 with:

C: Mathis
1B: Morales
2B: Kendrick
3B: Callaspo
SS: Aybar
LF: Bourjos
CF: Hunter
RF: Abreu
DH: Napoli

Mathis sucks, and I don't buy that Bourjos is ready to be a major-league hitter, but that's not the worst lineup in the world.

I don't understand why Lilly would take 1/15 from the Cubs over what he'd get on the open market, unless he really loved Chicago. I'd be mildly surprised if he got 1/15 as well.

I wonder if Torii can engineer a trade back to the Twins. He's gotta be feelin' kinda let down out there.

re 25

because the market might be crap and 1 year at 15 might look a helluva lot better than 2/20 or 3/25.

I think lilly at 15 would blow a huge hole in the cubs' budget

Well, if they are really looking to re-load and spend that money then 15 million on Lilly is as good as anything. Besides, Lee is making $13 million this year so letting him go will be a substantial savings in itself.

The team did sign Byrd when they could have tried Colvin or Fuld to start the year. I'm sure they want to trim salary but there aren't signs that it has reached emergency levels yet.

If Lilly stays and does not get offered arb then yeah, it's time for Cubs fans to get worried about ownership.

the reason the cubs have 20 million or so to play with is because of lily and lee's contracts coming off the books. If lilly comes back they basically have shot their budget if their budget is not set to increase.

the reason the cubs have 20 million or so to play with is because of lily and lee's contracts coming off the books. If lilly comes back they basically have shot their budget if their budget is not set to increase.

Yes, but so what? What are the Cubs going to do with that money that is better? The only high-priced FA it makes even remote sense for them to go after is Dunn ... and I wouldn't recommend it because (a) the 2011-12 Cubs aren't likely to be too competitive and (b) Dunn really isn't a great bet to age well (although he could be the next Thome).

And I think there's very little doubt that, barring a late-season injury or total collapse, Lilly doesn't get at least a 3/$30 contract (and if there's injury/collapse, then the Cubs can non-tender). Wolf, Sheets, Lackey plus the Vazquez and Peavy trades -- teams are still willing to pay pitchers very good money.

It's a perfectly good gamble for the Cubs to take.

On Z, what does it matter if the Cubs will eat money to move him? Unless you're actually suggesting they will have to take back MORE money than he costs just to move him, they'll save money if they do. Also the Cubs have lots of places where they can save small amounts of money -- non-tender Theriot (possibly re-signing for around $1 M), dump Fontenot, non-tender Guzman -- that's not a lot but it adds up to $2-3 M or so in savings.

Like I said, if the Cubs are desperate to cut payroll and plan to play next year at under $120 or so, then sure they'll non-tender Lilly rather than run the risk. I think cutting payroll to that extent, just for the purpose of cutting payroll, would be a quite bad sign going forward. Cutting payroll as part of a move into a serious rebuilding would be fine but the Cubs aren't really in a position to do that.

So they take Lilly and 15 million dollars to man a position they don't need filled and then have to fill several positions and a bullpen with 5 million dollars or so?

On Z, I think it matters a great deal. If they have to eat 10 million a year plus replace him you are talking big bucks and frankly if Z comes back and puts mid rotation and even back of the rotation like numbers it isn't worth trading him and if he comes back and bombs nobody is going to touch him. So either way he isn't going to get traded and if somehow he does get traded the trade is going to be so horrible for the Cubs that it won't really change much for them.

<i>So they take Lilly and 15 million dollars to man a position they don't need filled and then have to fill several positions and a bullpen with 5 million dollars or so?</i?

On the very small chance that Lilly doesn't get a contract and the larger but still small chance he gets $15 M in arbitration.

But what positions? C, SS, 3B, LF, CF and RF (plus Fukudome) are all set. They can live with the combo of Theriot, Fontenot and Baker if they want.

The bullpen will have Marmol, Marshall, Cashner, Grabow (whether we want him or not), Silva (or whoever) and a couple kids.

I WISH they had lots of roles to fill. But, in fact, as you yourself noted, the only players the Cubs don't already have under contract for 2011 are Lee, Lilly and Nady. So we would need to find somebody cheap to man 1B -- Nick Johnson? Overbay? Branyan? Cantu? Glaus? Huff? Hinske? Burrell? LaRoche? DLee? Not to mention various AAAA kinda guys.

Or are you under the misimpression the 2011 Cubs can actually be good? There's no $20 M spend that makes the Cubs a good team.

If they don't offer Lilly arb AND spend $20 M, they're idiots -- they're simply giving away 2 draft picks they'd get for Lilly and possibly a draft pick or two for the FAs they sign. If they don't offer Lilly arb, they aren't spending $20 M.

The only interesting question for the Cubs this offseason is whether to buy out Soto's and Marmol's arb years and for how much.

Walt is correct. McCoy is incorrect.

Per usual...