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Thursday, August 21, 2014

Cubs place struggling Edwin Jackson on the disabled list

Noooo! My HACKING MASS team!!!

After signing a four-year, $52 million contract with the Cubs last offseason Edwin Jackson struggled last season and has now been a mess this year, giving him a combined 14-32 record and 5.47 ERA in 57 starts for Chicago.

That includes leading the league in losses both seasons and leading the league in runs allowed this year. And since getting his ERA under 5.00 in early July he’s gone 1-6 with an 8.52 ERA in nine starts… Jackson failed to make it out of the third inning Wednesday, coughing up seven runs as his ERA ballooned above 6.00…

Jackson… [has] been placed on the disabled list with a strained lat muscle.

The District Attorney Posted: August 21, 2014 at 03:34 PM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cubs, edwin jackson, injuries

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   1. Canker Soriano Posted: August 21, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4776529)
I would think he would have a strained neck from turning to watch all the line drives whoosh past him.

Of all of the made up injuries, I imagine this is the most made up.
   2. Brian C Posted: August 21, 2014 at 03:58 PM (#4776533)
It's nice to think that Jackson's struggles are injury-related, but ... well, actually, it's not all that nice. An injury at this point is little more than an excuse not to cut him loose altogether. I know that cutting bait on a guy with 2 years left on his deal is an extreme measure, and I guess it's theoretically plausible that the front office could work out a Soriano-like trade with some sucker in the offseason, although an "injury" doesn't help with that goal, either.

But realistically, the guy is either done, or close enough to it that it's not worth worrying about all that much. I can't really see the argument that we Cubs fans will be sitting around this time next year, saying, "golly, wouldn't it have been nice if Hoyer had just been a little more patient with Edwin Jackson?!"

He's just not a very good pitcher, and never really has been, outside of a few spells here and there. I don't want to see what happens when he's "healthy". Just get rid of him and be done with it.
   3. zonk Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4776548)
I think Edwin Jackson has the biggest gulf in recent memory between "stuff" and "pitching'...

His control isn't terrible. He's got pretty good stuff. But he's just not a good pitcher.

I really have no idea why. He seems like a decent enough guy. He seems coachable.

The results just are not there.
   4. Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:15 PM (#4776551)
Second Cubs pitcher this month to go on the DL with an imaginary injury (after Felix Doubront). I like their style!
   5. Norcan Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:22 PM (#4776558)
I'm not sure why Edwin's been so underwhelming in his career. He blazed through the minors with really good numbers. He's a fantastic athlete for a pitcher with a smooth delivery that should have, at this point, let him develop good command and control. The only thing I can see besides maybe a subpar lack of feel is that he throws a bit across his body, which may have impaired his control just enough. At any rate, he's been a big part of why the Cubs have Kris Bryant so his signing hasn't been all bad.
   6. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:35 PM (#4776565)
I dobt thibk wmhe will pitch again for the cubs this year.
   7. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:36 PM (#4776567)
At any rate, he's been a big part of why the Cubs have Kris Bryant so his signing hasn't been all bad.

???

The Cubs drafted Bryant in 2013 on the "strength" of their place in the overall standings in 2012. Jackson was helping the Nationals blow the LDS to the Cardinals in 2012.
   8. zonk Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4776568)
The other really odd thing about him is that he tends to look better when he's a short-term lease.... I.e., when he gets traded near the end of a contract or signs a 1 year deal, he looks a lot better than... well... now - when he's sitting on a 4 year/decent money guaranteed.

The obvious answer/ordinarily you'd say that the guy is just lazy and tends to play better when it's time to look to the next payday.... but again - I get absolutely NO whiff of that from Jackson. He certainly seems to put his work in. He doesn't sound or act at all like a lazy guy chasing dollars. It just seems to work that he's at his best when he's got something to "prove".

I wonder if it's just a weird personality thing... I mean, some people actually struggle most when they put pressure on themselves to live up to certain expectations, but actually do pretty well when they're trying to "prove" something/live up to the expectations of others.

As truly dreadful as he's been and as much as this contract has been and looks to be an absolute disaster, I actually have a really hard time blaming or hating Jackson too much... Everything I've seen from his effort on the field to what people have said and written about him seems like he's in hell himself over his performance... but then again, maybe I'm being too soft - afterall, for 11 million a year, I could probably withstand a year of hellish performance too.
   9. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:38 PM (#4776569)
Anyway, this means I can pretty much go to the ballpark whenever I feel like it the rest of the year, knowing I'm not going to have the misfortune to draw the Jackson start.
   10. zonk Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:40 PM (#4776570)
I'm sure the comparison has been made before -- because of nomadic tendencies -- but Jackson really is a lot like Mike Morgan.

Morgan wasn't a bad pitcher, but he had significant stretches of being not very good. He also had stretches of being rather good - if a little overrated.

Pretty different types of stuff - Morgan was more finesse while Jackson is a bit more of a power pitcher - but same sort of animal.
   11. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:42 PM (#4776573)
I dobt thibk wmhe will pitch again for the cubs this year.

These are some quality typos, btw. Odds are meatwad is drunk.
   12. odds are meatwad is drunk Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:43 PM (#4776575)
Sadly just typing on my phone and not checking what I typed.
   13. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:44 PM (#4776576)
Morgan, though, had a few years when he was REALLY good (and a number of years when he was truly terrible). Jackson doesn't have those kind of (really good) seasons on his resume.

EDIT: Morgan pitched forever, didn't he? I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) he was a four-decade guy.
   14. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:46 PM (#4776581)
Sadly just typing on my phone and not checking what I typed.

Oh, I figured that. I just couldn't resist the urge to use your handle as a complete sentence in a post.
   15. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4776582)
The pitcher Jackson reminds me of is Steve Trachsel, not because of any particular similarity in results, but because I find/found both of them infuriating to watch. They work slowly, they hem and haw, they throw a billion excess pitches...drives me crazy.
   16. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 21, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4776584)
Is Brett Tomko a good comparison? He was nomadic and I think he was a fastball/changeup RHP, and he never really had a season much better than average in a 45-year career.
   17. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4776596)
Gametime, and it's pouring in Chicago. If it rains all night, do the Cubs get the Tuesday win back? It's an official game, and this time it would be called for a non-mechanical reason.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:09 PM (#4776599)
Of all of the made up injuries, I imagine this is the most made up.

I understand the skepticism but we're only 10 days away from roster expansion. Suffering through two more Jackson starts or pushing him to the pen would only help the Cubs draft position. Unless they were worried the fans would riot if Jackson started one more at Wrigley, there's not much incentive to fake an injury here.

Possibly Jackson was given the choice of bullpen (and not pitching once rosters expanded) or DL and chose the DL.
   19. Norcan Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4776600)
The Cubs drafted Bryant in 2013 on the "strength" of their place in the overall standings in 2012. Jackson was helping the Nationals blow the LDS to the Cardinals in 2012.


So Kyle Schwarber then! Plus whoever they get in this next draft. He might even have been the difference between an unprotected pick and a protected pick. Even then, I'm not sure he's been worth how horrible he's been to watch.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:16 PM (#4776609)
A couple of more promising Jackson comps would be Dempster and Clement. Both had great "stuff" but Dempster didn't figure it out until 31 but then was very good for a few years. Clement figured it out at 27 (possibly Rothschild), had a few good years then got hurt. There's no reason to think things will click for Jackson but he is still only 30 and I thought putting Dempster into the rotation was absurd.
   21. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4776615)
Even then, I'm not sure he's been worth how horrible he's been to watch.

Yeah, the Cubs have had no trouble losing without Edwin in recent years; not much reason to add to the excruciation. (Is that a word? It is now.)
   22. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:23 PM (#4776616)
Dempster had a weird career, though--he was a pretty good young starter before he got hurt, then he wandered the wilderness for a couple years before being recast as a closer, then after a few years of that they turned him back into a starter, which worked better than anyone had a right to expect. Hard to find a comp for his career, I'd think.

EDIT: I too thought putting him back in the rotation was nuts at the time.
   23. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:24 PM (#4776617)
.
   24. Brian C Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4776629)
Hell, as long as we're hoping for the best, maybe he can turn into Randy Johnson. That dude didn't come into his own until 29.
   25. Moses Taylor, Moses Taylor Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4776630)
.


Agree.
   26. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:43 PM (#4776631)
Agree.

That should go without saying.
   27. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2014 at 05:57 PM (#4776641)
Edwin Jackson is probably the pitcher I have most seen in person. I've probably been in the stands for at least a dozen of his starts. Every time I went to a Nationals game he invariably was the starter so I am well familiar with Edwin Jackson and his style of "pitching". When he was with the Nationals he looked like a great pitcher just as long as you chose the right inning to go get fooding and take a pee break. He always seemed to have one bad inning per game. Sometimes it was in the beginning and then he would settle down and pitch great. Sometimes he would be pitching great and then just hit a wall, give up a bunch of runs and get pulled. And sometimes it would be like that storm in Chicago. The day would be looking great, a huge downpour out of nowhere for 10 minutes, and then it would go back to looking good again. It always felt like if Edwin could just do one little thing differently he'd be an ace. By the end of the 2012 season I was sick and tired of seeing Edwin and just knew he'd be useless in the playoffs. The funny thing about the playoffs was that I went to two playoff games that year and who pitched in both those games? Why Edwin Jackon did naturally.
   28. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 21, 2014 at 06:09 PM (#4776655)
I mentioned in the chatter last night that I couldn't believe he was only 30 (soon to be 31). I have trouble remembering baseball without Edwin Jackson.

The guy has been excruciating to watch. I've had a soft spot for him most of his career; what zonk said in post 8 sums up my impression of the guy over the years. I probably saw the most of him in 2009, when he was actually quite good and was just a victim of poor run support. He hit a wall late in the season, but to that point, the guy was arguably the Tigers' most reliable starting pitcher.

I wish the guy all the best, but I have no desire to watch him don a Cubs uniform any longer. Even if he does turn it around (and I hope he does), I'm not sure if it's worth watching any more of his starts for the Cubs to make sure that turnaround is with the North Siders.
   29. Cabbage Posted: August 21, 2014 at 07:06 PM (#4776680)
As others mentioned, it never felt like Jackson was lazy or not trying. So I wish him well and all that.

That being said, I kinda wonder if he's going to go have a Jose Lima-ish career from here out. Eat many terrible innings for many terrible teams, then throw a gem to get some club past the wildcard by the akin of their teeth.
   30. Greg K Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:19 PM (#4776728)
Dempster had a weird career, though--he was a pretty good young starter before he got hurt, then he wandered the wilderness for a couple years before being recast as a closer, then after a few years of that they turned him back into a starter, which worked better than anyone had a right to expect. Hard to find a comp for his career, I'd think.

Derek Lowe maybe? Though looking back he seems more like your garden variety failed starter/all-star closer/all-star starter progression. Dempster managed to be a good starter on both sides.
   31. Greg K Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:21 PM (#4776730)
Didn't realize Jackson was leading the league in loses (which he did in 2013 as well). It would be a shame if this injury prevents him for going back to back. How often is that done?
   32. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:27 PM (#4776733)
Phil Niekro did it 4 years in a row.
   33. JJ1986 Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4776735)
Kip Wells and Jeremy Guthrie both did it 2 out of 3, but I don't think anyone has done it back-to-back since Phil Niekro did 4 in a row '77-'80.
   34. McCoy Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:30 PM (#4776736)
Steve Arlin did it
George Brunet
Roger Craig
Pedro Ramos-3 years in a row
Robin Roberts
Alex Kellner
Bobo Newsom
Red Ruffing
Vic Willis
Jim Britt
   35. Good cripple hitter Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:34 PM (#4776741)
Didn't realize Jackson was leading the league in loses (which he did in 2013 as well). It would be a shame if this injury prevents him for going back to back. How often is that done?


It used to be fairly common. AFAICT, last pitcher to do that was Phil Niekro, who led NL in losses in 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980. Steve Arlin did it in 71 and 72, George Brunet in 67 and 68, Roger Craig in 62 and 63, Pedro Ramos from 58 to 61, Robin Roberts, Murry Dickson, the list goes on.

Surprisingly, Hugh "Losing Pitcher" Mulcahy never did it (he led in 1938 and in his all-star 1940 season).

1988 had Tom Glavine and Bert Blyleven lead the league in losses, the only time each league's leader in losses was a hall of fame pitcher.
   36. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:34 PM (#4776742)
Can anyone remember what the phony-baloney injury was when the Orioles put Adam Eaton on the DL in 2009? I swear it was something that literally was not an injury, like "ineffective right arm".
   37. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:47 PM (#4776752)
Derek Lowe maybe? Though looking back he seems more like your garden variety failed starter/all-star closer/all-star starter progression. Dempster managed to be a good starter on both sides.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of him, but Lowe might be the best comparator, though his high points were higher than Dempster's as both a starter and a reliever.
   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4776754)
Jackson's velocity is still good.
   39. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:48 PM (#4776756)
1988 had Tom Glavine and Bert Blyleven lead the league in losses, the only time each league's leader in losses was a hall of fame pitcher.

That's interesting. And they were at opposite ends of their careers; Glavine was still a struggling youngster on a terrible team, Blyleven was winding things down (though he had a little renaissance with the Angels after that).
   40. Spahn Insane Posted: August 21, 2014 at 08:51 PM (#4776760)
Jackson's velocity is still good.

Yep, which is part of what makes him so frustrating. He had a top prospect pedigree, he's been a cromulent if unspectacular pitcher for most of his career, he throws pretty hard with some movement, and his control isn't awful. And yet, he can't keep opponents off the board.
   41. God Posted: August 21, 2014 at 09:30 PM (#4776790)
He really has no movement on his fastball, though, which has always been one of his main problems. Also his slider, which was a wipeout slider in the minors, is just an average one in the majors, and he makes a lot of mistakes with it. He also doesn't really have any deception or way to hide the ball in his delivery.

Jackson's pitching has essentially never recovered from the forearm injury he suffered in Double-A at Jacksonville. Oh, his arm recovered, but his pitching never made it back, not sure quite why. Now it's hard to remember the days when he was a Top 5 prospect in all of MLB and outpitched Randy Johnson in his MLB debut on his 20th birthday.
   42. Sweatpants Posted: August 21, 2014 at 09:44 PM (#4776792)
Can anyone remember what the phony-baloney injury was when the Orioles put Adam Eaton on the DL in 2009? I swear it was something that literally was not an injury, like "ineffective right arm".
I don't remember that, but I do remember a Blass Disease-stricken Mark Wohlers going on the DL with an "inability to pitch" in 1998.
   43. Walt Davis Posted: August 21, 2014 at 10:03 PM (#4776799)
Hell, as long as we're hoping for the best, maybe he can turn into Randy Johnson. That dude didn't come into his own until 29.

Lefties are weird. 30-year-old LHP is about as projectable as the next spin of the roulette wheel. Could be Johnson, could be Moyer, could be Fassero, could be Honeycutt, could be Darren Oliver.

Could even be Frank Tanana.

Very, very unlikely to be Mike Crudale.

Best to avoid comparing LHP and RHP.

On Dempster being "good" when young ... no, he had one really good season at 23 but that was followed by lousy 200 IP seasons at 24 and 25. From 21-26, his young starter years, he had an 85 ERA+ and, if anything, his peripherals were getting worse. Jackson was better over those ages and his age 25 was as good as Dempster's age 23. Dempster did then go off to the pen where he had one outstanding season and two poor ones.

Not that it makes Jackson an attractive option for 2015.

Lowe's hard to compare to either because he didn't really make the majors until age 25. He was then a much more effective and valuable reliever than Dempster ... then he was a better starter too.

Carpenter is slightly similar -- solid but not spectacular starter through 26, hurt for a couple of years, came back with a vengeance. Suppan was pretty Jackson-esque as a young starter (98 ERA+ through age 26) but with much worse stuff ... Cubs would have been happy with his age 29-32 performance though (105 ERA+ in 780 IP).

He wasn't exiled to the pen -- and he had a much better career -- but Dennis Martinez is sorta Dempster-esque (or hopefully Jackson-esque). 103 ERA+ through age 27, 82 from 28-32, 130 from 33-41. I'd never noticed that before -- from 33-41, Martinez was Schilling/Brown in more innings, quite close to Clemens, better than Maddux.
   44. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 21, 2014 at 10:03 PM (#4776800)
He really has no movement on his fastball, though, which has always been one of his main problems. Also his slider, which was a wipeout slider in the minors, is just an average one in the majors, and he makes a lot of mistakes with it. He also doesn't really have any deception or way to hide the ball in his delivery.

Sounds like a guy who needs to learn to doctor the baseball.
   45. Jacob Posted: August 21, 2014 at 10:04 PM (#4776802)
He's not struggling. That's just the way he pitches.

   46. Brian C Posted: August 21, 2014 at 10:32 PM (#4776809)
Best to avoid comparing LHP and RHP.

For what it's worth, I meant it as a joke.
   47. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: August 22, 2014 at 07:44 AM (#4776886)
Well, he was pretty good in the Tigers shoulda-been-championship season of '09, and he was part of the trade that brought Scherzer to Detroit. Other than that...

Fun fact: Jackson has been involved in trades with 22 other players. Can you name them?
   48. just plain joe Posted: August 22, 2014 at 07:57 AM (#4776890)
Fun fact: Jackson has been involved in trades with 22 other players. Can you name them?


Heck, Jackson himself likely couldn't name them.
   49. Dolf Lucky Posted: August 22, 2014 at 08:45 AM (#4776899)
Jackson has been around a long time, but my top two associations with the guy are still:

1) Him coming up with the Dodgers and beating Randy Johnson head-to-head as a 20 year old;
2) Him being linked in trade rumors for Adam Dunn shortly thereafter.

I specifically remember being excited for #2, proving once again that I am a idiot.
   50. Spahn Insane Posted: August 22, 2014 at 09:09 AM (#4776911)
Fun fact: Jackson has been involved in trades with 22 other players. Can you name them?

Without looking at bbref? Of course not, but let's see how far I get:

Austin Jackson
Max Scherzer
Curtis Granderson
Phil Coke
Ian Kennedy (I think?)

Think he was in that trade with the Blue Jays that brought over
Corey Patterson
Mark Rczepzczczczysyzssinski
and a bunch of other people (Dotel?)

After that, I got nothin...
   51. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: August 22, 2014 at 09:18 AM (#4776913)
I think he went to St. Louis for Colby Rasmus.
   52. JJ1986 Posted: August 22, 2014 at 09:37 AM (#4776927)
He went from LA to Tampa. With Dioner Navarro? For Lance Carter?
Matt Joyce is one.
Dan Schlereth was involved in the Granderson deal.
David Holmberg and Daniel Hudson.
   53. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 22, 2014 at 11:27 AM (#4777058)
he looked like a great pitcher just as long as you chose the right inning to go get fooding and take a pee break.


Or you could just wait until he gets runners on base and take your food/pee break between pitches.
   54. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: August 22, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4777063)
Think he was in that trade with the Blue Jays that brought over
Corey Patterson
Mark Rczepzczczczysyzssinski
and a bunch of other people (Dotel?)


How could you forget Trever Miller! And P.J. Tucker! P.J. Something, I know there was a P.J.
   55. Good cripple hitter Posted: August 22, 2014 at 11:47 AM (#4777083)
Fun fact: Jackson has been involved in trades with 22 other players. Can you name them?


The trade to Toronto was for Jason Frasor and... Zach Stewart? He was traded with Mark Teahen.

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