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Friday, December 13, 2013

Curt Schilling plans to reinvent the way pitching is talked about in new Sunday Night Baseball role

Shake a leg…there’s a mega pants load on the way.

See, Schilling is not suddenly going to change himself for this gig. He does sound like a guy who firmly believes he can reinvent the way pitching is analyzed on TV, without the aid of graphic gimmicks that (our opinion, not his) have become a crutch for the analyst.

“I can watch a pitcher for an inning and have a deep and wide understanding of who and what they are and what they do,” Schilling said.

He already has outlined a 26-week plan on presenting the art of pitching during a broadcast.

“If I were to talk to you about a pitch sequence to a hitter in the seventh inning, literally every pitch has 50 to 60 thoughts, ideas and processes around it and behind it,” Schilling said. “Just getting some of that out there is going to be different, new and unique.”

Like most former players turned analysts, Schilling has his own idea where the boundaries lie when it comes to criticizing players. There are ways to criticize, he said, without being negative.

“The only time you are going to hear me criticize a player is when he doesn’t give effort. Or when he doesn’t respect the game,” Schilling said. “I’m not going to talk about how bad a player is because he’s slumping. I can talk about why he’s slumping or what the pitcher is going to do to try and exploit the slump.”

Repoz Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:23 AM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. boteman digs the circuit clout Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4617352)
“I can watch a pitcher for an inning and have a deep and wide understanding of who and what they are and what they do,” Schilling said.

Sounds like Schilling is eminently qualified to be a pitching coach. His talents would be wasted on television.
   2. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:50 AM (#4617357)
Good to see 38 studios didn't damage his hubris.
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:13 AM (#4617380)
“The only time you are going to hear me criticize a player is when he doesn’t give effort. Or when he doesn’t respect the game,” Schilling said.

Uh-oh.....
   4. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:39 AM (#4617412)
Brian McCann: In The Booth!

Seriously, he makes it hard to praise him for his on-the-field performance because he's such a blowhard off the field.

He reminds me of my wife's uncle. He has such a big head I call him 5-head behind his back. Super annoying AND a Sox fan. Imagine that.
   5. john_halfz Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4617422)
I get that Curt Schilling is capo di tutti capi when it comes to Renaissance man geniuses. And I agree that pitching can be a beautiful art.

But I think Curt is just preening his plumage when he says that every pitch in a loaded sequence is the result of 50 or 60 thoughts, ideas, and processes. There may well be 50, 60, or more considerations and exogenous factors relevant to each pitch. But I don't think that those factors are represented as discrete thoughts in the pitcher's internal monologue before each pitch.

   6. Don Malcolm Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4617432)
Nice post, John, but in the case of Curt Schilling there is no such thing as an "internal" monologue...

Clearly this gig is just a run-up for the next national election: RUBIO/SCHILLING IN '16!!!!
   7. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4617464)
But I don't think that those factors are represented as discrete thoughts in the pitcher's internal monologue before each pitch.


It would make for a somewhat bizarre broadcast if nevertheless Schilling attempts to articulate these 50 to 60 thoughts, ideas and processes for each pitch.


   8. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:41 PM (#4617470)
What we'll have to do is tape the game and then ESPN can replay the entire game in slow motion so Schilling can express in a coherent matter everything that's going on.

Jonathan Papelbon is thinking, "I've got Pablo Sandoval on a 2-2 count, man on third, one out. OK. I've gone fastball in and up, fastball down and away, curve ball off the plate to get him to chase, fastball up and over that that ########## umpire should have rung him up on. I can go back to the high heat but the umpire is squeezing me at the belt and fat boy might be set for dead red. I can go down and away and get him to chase. Even if he hits it maybe it goes straight to the secondbaseman and freezes the runner. Sandoval has been itchy lately, from watching him on tape, going after heat off the plate since he's slumping a little and his slumps make him more aggressive rather than patient. It's an easy Nash Equilibrium problem, really, but I know fat boy knows I know that so I should cross him by playing dumb. What was that from Twain in a Connecticut Yankee, the world's best sword fighter has nothing to fear from the world's second best sword fighter, but the worst sword fighter is dangerous because he's unpredictable. Always liked Twain. Gotta remember to download his essays and sketches onto my kindle..." Now see that, Papelbon is angling his foot at 35 degrees off the rubber, so he must be looking for the 2 strike pitch equivalent of the Ruy Lopez opening...the sly devil...Now he's thinking "Find the fourth seam from the bottom, but what is the bottom of a sphere? Can anyone know or do we just pretend to know..."
   9. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4617473)
8- Primey
   10. puck Posted: December 13, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4617475)
"I do wish you'd listen, Schulman, it's perfectly simple. If you're not getting your hair cut on your inside pitches, you don't have to move the batter off the plate. You simply note the position of his feet before taking your grip, after you've checked the runner, when you've seen the catcher's sign, before starting your motion, shift your own foot position, greet the catcher with a glance, and proceed to deliver the pitch to the outside corner."
   11. TRBMB Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:20 PM (#4617501)
Absolutely justifies my plan to watch Sunday night baseball next year with the volume off.

Now, if I could find a way to eliminate The Bottom Line.

   12. dr. scott Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:20 PM (#4617502)
What we'll have to do is tape the game and then ESPN can replay the entire game in slow motion so Schilling can express in a coherent matter everything that's going on.


So it will be like those RD jr scenes in the new Sherlock Holmes movies... great.
   13. Steve Treder Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:23 PM (#4617509)
I hereby predict that Schilling will prove to be either spectacularly brilliant or insufferably terrible in this TV analyst gig (and perhaps, or even likely, alternating between those poles), and absolutely nothing in between.

Mark my words.
   14. madvillain Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:26 PM (#4617510)
On his previous linked article this week schilling said there was roughly 70 things that go into each pitch. Now he's down to 50 or 60. Maybe by April he will be down to 20.
   15. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4617515)
#### fuck #### fuck #### Curt Schilling.
   16. Bob Tufts Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4617519)
Too bad there are not 50 or 60 checkpoints used by Curt Schilling before he begins to speak.

He probably does have some credible thoughts to add, but when you are constantly talking it is impossible to ascertain which ones are truly valid.



   17. silhouetted by the sea Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4617522)
I hereby predict that Schilling will prove to be either spectacularly brilliant or insufferably terrible in this TV analyst gig (and perhaps, or even likely, alternating between those poles), and absolutely nothing in between.
[/quote)
I don't think he will have to alternate between those 2 poles. He is talented enough that he can do both in one sentence.
   18. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 01:43 PM (#4617526)
Number eight is utterly brilliant!
   19. The District Attorney Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4617540)
Sounds cool. Discussing baseball strategy is a helluva lot better than concentrating on which fans in the stands look worried, which schmuck in the dugout has time to do an interview while the game is in progress, which team has the will to win, etc.
   20. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:05 PM (#4617541)
No one who watched Josh Beckett pitch can dismiss the thought that a pitcher is thinking about 50 or 60 different things between pitches.
   21. Steve Treder Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4617547)
No one who watched Josh Beckett pitch can dismiss the thought that a pitcher is thinking about 50 or 60 different things between pitches.

I'm reminded of a fascinating scouting report written by none other than Branch Rickey, criticizing one of his pitchers, Murry Dickson, for spending too much time between pitches cogitating on the myriad of possibilities instead of just trusting his stuff and his defense and pitching confidently.
   22. Bob Tufts Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:42 PM (#4617572)
You cannot think that much and pitch during a game.

That's the job of your catcher and pitching coach - and you - regarding pre-game preparation as to which player is "hot", how batters on this team have fared against you in the past.

It is your responsibility as it relates to "what is my best pitch" when you leave the bullpen before the game.

It then reverts to the catcher and pitching coach as to what to throw, with the pitcher acting as a yes/no switch and focusing solely on replicating as much as possible the proper motion and technique to execute the pitch.

If you are not executing, you do have adapt and adjust to on your own or via reminders by coaches or the catcher.

Anyone who claims more than this goes on during a game or should go on is conflating their mental abilities, a perfect definition of Curt Schilling.
   23. Moeball Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4617573)
Too bad there are not 50 or 60 checkpoints used by Curt Schilling before he begins to speak.

He probably does have some credible thoughts to add, but when you are constantly talking it is impossible to ascertain which ones are truly valid.


Actually, Bob, as you're an actual pitcher in our midst, I'd guess you did have a few things go through your head when pitching in certain situations? One of the things that has always fascinated me about baseball is the chess match between pitcher and batter, each trying to outthink the other. Or maybe you just let it fly and trust in your talent?

Sorry, I guess you already answered this; I was slow on the draw.
   24. Moeball Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4617576)
Double post.
   25. Moeball Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4617578)
The only time you are going to hear me criticize a player is when he doesn’t give effort. Or when he doesn’t respect the game,” Schilling said.


...Like if he bunts on you when you're pitching a no-hitter? Is that what you mean, Curt?
   26. Dan Lee prefers good shortstops to great paintings Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4617579)
Schilling plans to reinvent the way pitching is talked about, but first he'll need $75 million to get the project up and running.
   27. Jim (jimmuscomp) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4617586)
25 and 26 are also excellent.
   28. bjhanke Posted: December 13, 2013 at 02:58 PM (#4617590)
There's a little segment in Ken Burns' documentary "Baseball in New York (and Boston)" where Grover Cleveland Alexander is credited with thinking about pitching to Tony Lazzeri in the 1926 Series. He apparently told manager Rogers Hornsby that he was going to get a quick strike away, and then throw a hard one up and in to Tony, and then finish him off with something curving low and away. Hornsby expressed some angst at the thought of throwing an up and in fastball to Lazzeri, but Alexander said that Lazzeri would just get ahead of it and pull it foul (which is exactly what happened). Hornsby apparently replied, "Who am I to be telling YOU how to pitch", and went back to second base. There is apparently a LOT of thought that goes into pitching, moment to moment, unless you're Rube Waddell (or Steve Dalkowski) and can throw it over 100 MPH, and your mind is so weak that you never overthink anything.

Don Malcolm and Bob Tufts think that Schilling's main problem is going to be doing this by non-stop talking, which will get old after a while, and, being Don and Bob, are probably right. But the principle - that pitching is a lot more complicated than it seems to fans - is one of the reasons that I really value Bob Tufts here on BTF. I keep worrying that someone involved in broadcasting is going to start reading Bob's comments here, and we'll lose him to a higher-paying job in a broadcast booth. He's certainly articulate enough, and he knows things that fans just don't know. I'd love for him to watch a game on TV and record his analysis for the likes of me to download. Don Malcolm would be great at broadcasting, too, by the way, not to mention hilariously off the wall, and would likely make a great partner for Bob.... - Brock Hanke
   29. madvillain Posted: December 13, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4617607)
that pitching is a lot more complicated than it seems to fans


I dunno about this, I played low level college baseball, against some guys that went on to play low level minor league baseball, and the deciding factor for 90% of the pitchers I faced was stuff, not some complicated thought process. The best picher on our team liked to smoke weed before he pitched and then unloaded on some DIII fools with his 85 mph fastball and decent (aka could throw it for a strike) breaking ball.

At the MLB level I am sure that guys have detailed plans for how they want to attack each hitter in the lineup -- but to suggest that it's more than that seems silly. I think Hershiser does an alright job of explaining the pitcher's mindset, but is it really any different than most game theory, like say, in high level pro poker?

Like, the lovely #8 highlights the absurdity of it IMO, does Papelbon really go through a complicated thought process before he throws a pitch? His success is going to mostly be based on velocity and command, not "out thinking" the opposition.

Now, a guy like Mark Buehrle might seem a case for "the mental edge" but Buehrle's success is also based mostly on velocity (in this case changing it from 88 to 83 with a changeup)and command -- getting inside with his cutter.

that's my 2 cents.
   30. Bob Tufts Posted: December 13, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4617609)
Bjhanke:

Perhaps Don and I should live blog (or drunk blog) Schilling's first regular season broadcast on BBTF?

And your check is in the mail.....
   31. tshipman Posted: December 13, 2013 at 03:35 PM (#4617612)
Isn't the whole concept of 50-60 things sort of ridiculous when most pitchers throw a fastball more than 60% of the time?
   32. Swedish Chef Posted: December 13, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4617620)
In other news, the MMORPG and Amalur stuff failed to sell at the auction of 38 Studios' assets.
   33. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 13, 2013 at 03:50 PM (#4617621)

Like, the lovely #8 highlights the absurdity of it IMO, does Papelbon really go through a complicated thought process before he throws a pitch? His success is going to mostly be based on velocity and command, not "out thinking" the opposition.


Well, it could explain why Papelbon takes so damn long between pitches.

And guys, thanks, I came for a snarkfest and that's what I got. With a nice dollop of real commentary on the top.

Bob, if you and Don could conjure up the ghost of John Brattain as the 3rd entity in the booth, the donations would be overwhelming.
   34. Walt Davis Posted: December 13, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4617663)
steve stone used to be great at this and it does add a lot. The pitcher has fallen into a rut, the batter has a particular pitch timed, pitch selection before it's thrown.

I assume trachsel was thinking about 735 things before every pitch and planning his next postal chess move.
   35. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: December 13, 2013 at 04:38 PM (#4617674)
As a former catcher, I would like to stick my head in here and remind everyone that most of the time, the catcher is the one playing chess. The pitcher is just there to throw the pitches I tell him to.

Dammit.
   36. Moeball Posted: December 13, 2013 at 04:47 PM (#4617681)
As a former catcher, I would like to stick my head in here and remind everyone that most of the time, the catcher is the one playing chess. The pitcher is just there to throw the pitches I tell him to.


i.e., "Just throw the ball, meat!"

(Unless it's Tim McCarver talking to Bob Gibson)

And how does a catcher wind up as Infinite Joost? I had you pegged for a shortstop for certain...
   37. Moeball Posted: December 13, 2013 at 04:50 PM (#4617684)
I assume trachsel was thinking about 735 things before every pitch and planning his next postal chess move.


Did Steve Trachsel ever have to pitch to Mike Hargrove? Wouldn't that plate appearance take about 20 minutes with those two guys involved?
   38. villageidiom Posted: December 13, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4617712)
“The only time you are going to hear me criticize a player is when he doesn’t give effort. Or when he doesn’t respect the game,” Schilling said. “I’m not going to talk about how bad a player is because he’s slumping. I can talk about why he’s slumping or what the pitcher is going to do to try and exploit the slump.”
"But I will tell the 60-step process, and of course what the right pitch is. And if he doesn't throw the right pitch, then I'll call him an idiot. Incessantly."
   39. Zach Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:06 PM (#4617730)
Gosh, all of those variables and the correct answer always seems to be "high and tight" or "low and away."
   40. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: December 13, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4617734)
"He probably shouldn't have left that curve so high in the zone. In my expert opinion, that was his mistake."
   41. Walt Davis Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:00 PM (#4617747)
Jonathan Papelbon is thinking, "I've got Pablo Sandoval on a 2-2 count, man on third, one out. OK. I've gone fastball in and up, fastball down and away, curve ball off the plate to get him to chase, fastball up and over that that ########## umpire should have rung him up on. I can go back to the high heat but the umpire is squeezing me at the belt and fat boy might be set for dead red. I can go down and away and get him to chase. Even if he hits it maybe it goes straight to the secondbaseman and freezes the runner. Sandoval has been itchy lately, from watching him on tape, going after heat off the plate since he's slumping a little and his slumps make him more aggressive rather than patient. It's an easy Nash Equilibrium problem, really, but I know fat boy knows I know that so I should cross him by playing dumb. What was that from Twain in a Connecticut Yankee, the world's best sword fighter has nothing to fear from the world's second best sword fighter, but the worst sword fighter is dangerous because he's unpredictable. Always liked Twain. Gotta remember to download his essays and sketches onto my kindle..." Now see that, Papelbon is angling his foot at 35 degrees off the rubber, so he must be looking for the 2 strike pitch equivalent of the Ruy Lopez opening...the sly devil...Now he's thinking "Find the fourth seam from the bottom, but what is the bottom of a sphere? Can anyone know or do we just pretend to know..."

Sandoval: hmmm ... fried chicken or pizza? fried chicken or pizza? fri -- BASEBALL!
   42. SoCalDemon Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:05 PM (#4617748)
Re 30: I actually think that would be all kinds of awesome, and should happen for real.
   43. Steve Treder Posted: December 13, 2013 at 09:16 PM (#4617753)
Sandoval: hmmm ... fried chicken or pizza? fried chicken or pizza? fri -- BASEBALL!

And then, as he's jogging to first: Wait a minute ... fried chicken AND pizza!!! Way to go, me!!!
   44. Greg K Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:15 PM (#4617765)
I really liked Rance Mulliniks as a broadcaster for the Jays. He wasn't entirely comfortable on the mic, but he would think through each pitch (what the pitcher was thinking, what the batter was thinking)...it came off as a bit more genuine that just generic comments about hitting.
   45. Fancy Pants Handle doesn't need no water Posted: December 13, 2013 at 10:53 PM (#4617773)
And then, as he's jogging to first: Wait a minute ... fried chicken AND pizza!!! Way to go, me!!!

Fried chicken pizza isn't bad. Although I prefer sweet chilli chicken pizza.
   46. Dale Sams Posted: December 13, 2013 at 11:42 PM (#4617786)
OT- Things I learned today. There is a horse in Lord of the Rings called "Arod."
   47. Walt Davis Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:02 AM (#4617797)
Fried chicken pizza isn't bad. Although I prefer sweet chilli chicken pizza.

BLASPHEMER!!!!
   48. Gaelan Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:53 AM (#4617821)
I would like to reiterate that Shooty's post was hilarious.

People who cover sports are funny. They think their sport is so complicated and has such strategic nuances (football is brutal at this). I played football at a high level, I also coached football, I was a catcher as well, and they involved almost no mental effort. None. Basically the easiest things I have ever done.

I had a coach once who had played professional football on the basis of his intelligence. He was a smart guy, way smarter than the average athlete or coach. I learned every concept he knew in 30 minutes. Sports are fun. I like sports. But almost no thought goes into them. Guys like Schilling only think they involve thought because they have so little experience with actual thinking.

Anyway Shooty's post was hilarious. 50 thoughts! I'm going to be chuckling about that all night.
   49. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: December 14, 2013 at 07:49 AM (#4617857)
Guys like Schilling only think they involve thought because they have so little experience with actual thinking.

That was a funny line.

And Shooty's post was hilarious.
   50. Don Malcolm Posted: December 14, 2013 at 11:02 AM (#4617897)
Definitely up for the "drunken" blog, Bob--all I'll need at this point is to consume one (1) Trappist Rochefort 10 to get into the proper "zone" for this assignment.

While Bob will be able to bring his on-field experience and cut-to-the-chase sensibility to the matter at hand, my job (as always) will be to be both inchoate and arcane. In that spirit, allow me to ask our stalwart crew to provide a little assistance in preparing for my portion of the assignment. Shooty's sendup reminds me that there are a lot of "mental" accounts to be found in various baseball books, some quite good and others likely bordering on the level of outrageousness that was ascribed to Papelbon (a great choice, BTW, as ol' Jon is among the least likely to have any of that coursing through his frontal lobe). I remember Koufax (via Ed Linn) delving into this territory in a good way in his autobio, but there have got to be dozens of other examples.

I'm wondering if some of you can dig through your books and find other examples of that process and post some more of them here. Not only would it make for fun reading, but it might inform some of my "antics" as I attempt to be an appropriate foil for Bob.
   51. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 14, 2013 at 11:20 AM (#4617899)
Not a baseball book, but I always think the Sound and The Furyis a good guide for the over-representation of supposed interior monologues. And the range of intelligence is limned. Benjy can support the lower end of the intelligence spectrum (Papelbon) and the Quentin chapter can help with your understanding of what's going on in Brandon McCarthy's head.
   52. Jick Posted: December 14, 2013 at 12:08 PM (#4617942)
Not a baseball book, but I always think the Sound and The Fury...


Not a baseball book? Then why is the opening sentence "Through the fence, between the curling flower spaces, I could see them hitting"? Hmm?
   53. Bob Tufts Posted: December 14, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4618048)
Don: I'll provide the Belgian beers - perhaps some Verboden Vrucht? The Trappist 10 are a little too strong for my tainted American taste buds.

And as you do your best imitation of a poet, I will summarize your long winded tomes to mental and physical attributes by saying - "it's easy. G-d very rarely decided to put the good arms and good heads on the same major league pitcher".
   54. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: December 14, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4618056)
Did Steve Trachsel ever have to pitch to Mike Hargrove?


If he did, it's still happening, somewhere.
   55. Bug Selig Posted: December 15, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4618297)
“I can watch a pitcher for an inning and have a deep and wide understanding of who and what they are and what they do,” Schilling said.


Which explains perfectly why he's a babbling head on TV rather than the chief scout or aGM of the best team ever. Wouldn't someone with this mystical ability be worth more to a team than any single player could possibly be?

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