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Sunday, March 31, 2013

OTP: April 2013: Daily Caller: Baseball and the GOP: To rebrand the party, think like a sports fan

This week’s GOP autopsy report, commissioned by RNC Chairman Reince Priebus, is a great start in the much-needed task of rebranding the Republican Party. As the chairman acknowledged, “the way we communicate our principles isn’t resonating widely enough” and “we have to be more inclusive.” The report contains 219 recommendations to “connect people to our principles.” To achieve that goal, the party will need a strategic vision of how voters think about politics, which is something that the report lacks. For that, the GOP can learn a lot from another American passion: baseball.

This year, about 75 million Americans will go to the baseball stadium to watch a ballgame, about the same number as those who will vote in next year’s election. We rarely think about why someone becomes a baseball fan, or why they root for a certain team. Nor do we usually think about why someone chooses to vote for a certain political party. But it’s actually a very useful exercise.

When it comes to baseball, fan loyalty has almost nothing to do with the brain, and almost everything to do with the heart. In all of history, there’s never been a baseball fan who rooted for his team because it had the lowest ticket prices, or because it had the most taxpayer-friendly stadium deal, or because its players did the most community service. For the vast majority of Americans, rooting for a baseball team — not to mention, voting for a political party — isn’t really a rational choice; it’s more of a statement of personal identity — a statement telling the world, “This is who I am.” And for most people, defining “who I am” starts with family and community, before branching out into areas like race, age, gender, and class.

Family is pretty straightforward. If your mom and dad are Yankee fans, you’re almost certainly a Yankee fan. The same is true in politics. If your mom and dad are Republicans, you’re almost certainly a Republican.

Community is also pretty straightforward. If you grew up in, say, Philadelphia, chances are pretty great you’re a Phillies fan. Likewise, someone who grew up in Republican territory like, say, suburban Dallas or rural Indiana is much more likely to become a Republican than a nearly identical person from Seattle or Santa Fe.

Cities with more than one baseball team, like New York or Chicago, show revealing breakdowns by race and gender. The racial split in Chicago between Cubs fans on the North Side and White Sox fans on the South Side is well-documented. In New York, there’s an intriguing gender gap between Mets and Yankee fans, with women gravitating a lot more to the Yanks. While there’s a few theories out there trying to explain that, one obvious answer leaps out: Yankees heartthrob Derek Jeter.

In sports, as in politics, people’s convictions can’t be conveniently reduced to who their parents are or what they look like. But those things are an important foundation, upon which more rational sentiments come into being. Once you’re attached to your team on an emotional level — seeing them as a personal reflection of who you are and what you care about most — a rational exterior comes into being through phrases like “the Red Sox are the best team because they have the most heart” or “the Republicans are the best party because they know how to create jobs.”

Tripon Posted: March 31, 2013 at 10:52 AM | 6544 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   2101. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:06 AM (#4411499)
It's pathetic, by any measurement (*), and a marker of significant national and cultural decline. Their energy would be far more profitably expended trying to extricate themselves from the dole.

I think it's more a marker of the fact that a significant portion of the population of the UK really, really doesn't like Margaret Thatcher. This was the case twenty years ago, and will be the case at least for a little while longer (as cultural memory moves her from a figure that people have a personal memory of hating, into a kind of pop culture reference for hated politicians). Her death is merely the trigger to get a large amount of people talking about her at once, but Thatcher has had this role firmly implanted in popular culture for a while now.

I'm not sure it's anything new either. The English at least have a long history of A) having extremely unpopular nation leaders, B) mocking them in popular culture, and C) especially doing so at the time of their death. Hell, in the 17th century there was a whole genre of poetry with its own set of conventions that was exclusively written at the time of a political figure's death, which acted as a kind of satirical retrospective of their life. (As always, drifting off point here...) When the Duke of Buckingham was assassinated in 1628 the King actually planned a secret burial in Westminster Abbey because he was pretty sure an actual service would cause a riot. When people found out the next day they had a grand mock-ceremony outside the Abbey with a dead dog someone had found in a gutter standing in for Buckingham.
   2102. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:08 AM (#4411501)
It should also be noted that "Get X Song to Number One" is a common publicity stunt/tactic in the UK. Especially being #1 at Christmas appears to have a special meaning (see Love Actually!)
   2103. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:21 AM (#4411503)
At the time we bought our 4BR/2.5BA house in 1991, we were paying $546 a month in rent for a 2BR/1BA Adams-Morgan apartment on one of the best blocks (Mintwood Place) in the neighborhood. That apartment now rents for over $3000. And oh, free street parking, which once was a snap, is now virtually impossible to find anytime other than in the middle of the day.

I lived in that exact neighborhood from 98-02 (in the apt building on the corner of Columbia and Mintwood - I still have a lifetime membership at Bedrock), and can tell you that street parking was a distant memory even by then. We would just park illegally, figuring that even 5 tickets a month at $20 a pop was still a better deal than renting a parking space.


You want to know how to visualize the change in DC parking over the years in one easy number? In the 11 months I was a Central Delivery driver in 1970-71, parking my VW beetle illegally about 30 times a day all over downtown Washington, often during rush hour, I got exactly as many tickets in that entire period (5) as you say you were getting in one month of parking in your own neighborhood in Adams-Morgan. BITD, if you simply put a cardboard “ON DELIVERY” sign on your dashboard, the cops would almost always leave you alone, and at that point those ubiquitous Meter Maids were only a gleam in some bureaucrat’s eye.

As for parking in Adams-Morgan itself: In 1972, when I first moved to Mintwood, I was coming home every night around 1:00 and parking on Mintwood on the first try, sometimes even getting what I’d call “the President’s space” directly in front of our building. Within a few years I was often having to park on the next block (Biltmore). By 1980 I usually had to circle the block at least once or twice before finding a space. And by the mid-80’s it sometimes was taking as long as 15 or 20 minutes. Before the 1990's, all non-residential parking ended at 6:30, and it was only my Pagan conscience that stopped me from keying every goddam Maryland and Virginia car I’d see during my walk back to the apartment. It was still easy then to find spaces during the day, but I can certainly believe McCoy when he says that even that’s getting to be hard to do anymore.

I also wonder whether or not snapper would’ve said it was smart to rent or buy back then, even with rent control. At the time we (my gf and I) first moved onto that block and were paying $145 for a 1BR at 1875 Mintwood, we could have bought any house on that block for $25,000. Today Zillow has a 2BR/2BA. 989 sqft condo at 1842 Mintwood listed at $519,000, and I doubt if any house on the block could be had for under a million.
   2104. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:22 AM (#4411504)
#2029 The lenders started with one fundamentally stupid assumption too. Assuming the properties were reasonably valued and that there was a strong upward trend in sales prices, defaults are good for the lenders. It's basically another opportunity to collect closing costs.

But when there are more houses on the market than can be moved in a timely manner the entire model breaks.
   2105. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:37 AM (#4411511)
#2078 It's moderately tough to get a mortgage in Canada with "only" 20% down. It's actively discouraged by government policies (which require you to take out insurance on the mortgage)

You theoretically only need 5% down, and in a buyer's market a seller will take what they can get of course.
   2106. Publius Publicola Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:52 AM (#4411520)
We would just park illegally, figuring that even 5 tickets a month at $20 a pop was still a better deal than renting a parking space.


Well, it's $50 a pop now so...

OTOH, I find that if you have district license plates, they're much more lenient than if you have out-of-state plates. I park illegally occasionally and have never gotten a ticket for not paying into a parking meter.

One thing I'm hopeful for, now that the District in in good shape financially, is they ease up on the parking fines. They might have needed the money at one time but they don't anymore.
   2107. Kurt Posted: April 12, 2013 at 08:59 AM (#4411526)
Well, it's $50 a pop now so...

OTOH, I find that if you have district license plates, they're much more lenient than if you have out-of-state plates. I park illegally occasionally and have never gotten a ticket for not paying into a parking meter.

One thing I'm hopeful for, now that the District in in good shape financially, is they ease up on the parking fines. They might have needed the money at one time but they don't anymore.


I now live in a neighborhood with ample street parking so I haven't had to park illegaly in years, but I'll believe that last part when I see it - starting with being able to drive on DC roads at a reasonable speed without getting his with a $125 fine from a speed camera.
   2108. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:01 AM (#4411527)
One thing I'm hopeful for, now that the District in in good shape financially, is they ease up on the parking fines. They might have needed the money at one time but they don't anymore.

Our sixth grade goddaughter at Deal read about that in a book she had in her English class. The book's name was Grin's Fairy Tales.
   2109. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:04 AM (#4411529)
I now live in a neighborhood with ample street parking so I haven't had to park illegaly in years, but I'll believe that last part when I see it - starting with being able to drive on DC roads at a reasonable speed without getting his with a $125 fine from a speed camera.

They really do burn you on those in DC, don't they? They have those same speed cameras all over Montgomery County, but when I got snagged for the first time the other day out in Gaithersburg (for doing 51 in a most curiously marked 30MPH zone), the fine was only $40.
   2110. Kurt Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:11 AM (#4411539)
The one that really grinds my gears is on Macarthur - a divided, four lane road, next to a reservoir - $125 for doing 41 in a 30.
   2111. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:17 AM (#4411544)
I'm not sure it's anything new either. The English at least have a long history of A) having extremely unpopular nation leaders, B) mocking them in popular culture, and C) especially doing so at the time of their death. Hell, in the 17th century there was a whole genre of poetry with its own set of conventions that was exclusively written at the time of a political figure's death, which acted as a kind of satirical retrospective of their life. (As always, drifting off point here...) When the Duke of Buckingham was assassinated in 1628 the King actually planned a secret burial in Westminster Abbey because he was pretty sure an actual service would cause a riot. When people found out the next day they had a grand mock-ceremony outside the Abbey with a dead dog someone had found in a gutter standing in for Buckingham.

And bully to that. If the US started a tradition of commemorating the passing of its high office holders with a rousing, "Good riddance to that piece of ####, we can't believe we gave him that much power over our thoughts and lives for that long," and set it to song and dance, that would be a very positive and healthy development.

Of course, this isn't what's going on with Thatcher, which is instead a partisan, sectarian, attention-seeking, pathetic temper tantrum.(*)

(*) That offends me as a comedian. Another textbook example of leftist "comedy" wherein the humor comes through only in dog whistle form. I guess it's mildly funnier than the commie play about Jackie Robinson, wherein Pee Wee Reese employs the magical prostitute, but that's a bar an earthworm couldn't limbo under.
   2112. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:28 AM (#4411551)
The one that really grinds my gears is on Macarthur - a divided, four lane road, next to a reservoir - $125 for doing 41 in a 30.

The only thing I can say in defense of the DC system (and of speed cameras in general) is that once they're known to be established, they tend to achieve their alleged purpose, which is traffic calming. The problem to me is that in many areas the speed limits are set at absurdly low levels, which especially for non-residents is a de facto form of entrapment.
   2113. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:37 AM (#4411557)
snapper, no idea why you're assuming the government guaranteeing parts of down payments for working class and middle class families is a money-losing proposition. We're not talking about subsidies on houses bought on spec, and the fees paid by borrowers for the privilege of a low down payment are not insignificant, they're simply spread out over time. Further, you're assuming 20% is some sort of magic number. It isn't. Why not at least get behind lending to people and making the down payment a more reasonable percentage based on previous valuations of the property? Why not at least propose dropping the requirements of a down payment on inexpensive property to the break even point for the program as a whole?

This 20% threshold you insist on really does smack of "I've got mine".


Since I already own a house, and it's expensive (since I live in the NYC area) my personal interests are for more housing subsidies to jack up the price of my (so far shitty) investment.

What I'm saying is that it's wrong for the government to subsidize home ownership vs. renting. Both are equally valid choices, and make sense for different people at different times in their lives. It's ludicrous that I get a tax break for my mortgage interest while someone making the same income and paying the same amount in rent doesn't get any deduction.

These subsidies have led to a major over investment in housing (rather than more productive capital) and made entry level home ownership very expensive.
   2114. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:40 AM (#4411558)
#2078 It's moderately tough to get a mortgage in Canada with "only" 20% down. It's actively discouraged by government policies (which require you to take out insurance on the mortgage)

In general, Canada seems to have very intelligent policies towards housing.
   2115. Kurt Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:45 AM (#4411561)
The only thing I can say in defense of the DC system (and of speed cameras in general) is that once they're known to be established, they tend to achieve their alleged purpose, which is traffic calming. The problem to me is that in many areas the speed limits are set at absurdly low levels, which especially for non-residents is a de facto form of entrapment.


In my experience people zoom up to the camera, slam on the brakes, putter past the camera, and then speed off, which doesn't seem like it would do wonders for safety.

No argument on the second point. My objection to cameras wouldn't be nearly as strong if the speed limits were reasonable.
   2116. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4411573)
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves, that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, "This was their finest hour."


This was a brilliant bit of commentary, and then you had to ruin it by being so whiny in later posts.
   2117. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 09:56 AM (#4411576)
In my experience people zoom up to the camera, slam on the brakes, putter past the camera, and then speed off, which doesn't seem like it would do wonders for safety.


Also, the cameras make some people stop short at yellow lights, which may not be such a great idea either.
   2118. McCoy Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:00 AM (#4411584)
I can't see parking illegally in Adams Morgan or Dupont Circle to be a wise choice nowadays. The whole area is heavily infested with meter maids. I don't think I've ever gotten away with illegally parking in that area.
   2119. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4411622)
One thing I've noticed about traffic lights in the UK that I never saw in Canada is that they give you a bit of a heads up for a light change. When you're sitting at a red light the yellow light will momentarily come on (while the red is still on) just before it switches to green to let you know you're about to move.

Since I'm not a driver, I have no idea how helpful (or distracting?) this is, or whether it is common in the US, but it struck me as a potentially useful idea.
   2120. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:30 AM (#4411631)
(*) That offends me as a comedian. Another textbook example of leftist "comedy" wherein the humor comes through only in dog whistle form. I guess it's mildly funnier than the commie play about Jackie Robinson, wherein Pee Wee Reese employs the magical prostitute, but that's a bar an earthworm couldn't limbo under.

I suppose I can see that...it wouldn't really occur to me to think of mass culture political publicity stunts as comedy per se, but if you are looking for well-crafted comedy in it I can see being disappointed by the #1 Thatcher Witch Quest.

I just don't see this as an event particular to 21st century British culture.
   2121. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:32 AM (#4411634)


Last month, the New Jersey Department of Transportation released report on 24 red-light camera intersections in the state and found that rather than preventing accidents, the cameras seemed to increase accident rates. In the year before the cameras were installed there were 577 accidents at those locations, versus 582 accidents in the 12 months after the cameras were installed, thanks in large part to an increase in rear-end collisions.

Almost simultaneously, American Traffic Solutions (one of the private companies supplying the systems in New Jersey) issued a press release stating that the DOT report actually supported the idea that red-light cameras prevent accidents. However, ATS was focusing only on one particular -- albeit particularly dangerous -- type of crash, so-called T-bone or right angle crashes. When considered separately, these types of accidents were actually down 15 percent from the previous year.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/12/05/red-light-traffic-cameras-have-drivers-seeing-red/#ixzz2QG4tjxwI




   2122. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:32 AM (#4411635)
Also, the cameras make some people stop short at yellow lights, which may not be such a great idea either.


They also make people afraid to make left turns, which does wonders for the traffic flow.
   2123. Tripon Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM (#4411641)
Some of the newer traffic lights have a counter timing down on its side for pedestrians to know how much time they have left crossing, but also great for drivers since you know if you have time for a green, or the yellow or red is coming down soon and need to slow down and stop. This system needs to be implemented nation wide.
   2124. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:45 AM (#4411654)
What I'm saying is that it's wrong for the government to subsidize home ownership vs. renting. Both are equally valid choices, and make sense for different people at different times in their lives. It's ludicrous that I get a tax break for my mortgage interest while someone making the same income and paying the same amount in rent doesn't get any deduction.

These subsidies have led to a major over investment in housing (rather than more productive capital) and made entry level home ownership very expensive.

Exactly. That said, I think it's okay to buy a house with less than 20% (provided that you pay PMI or get insurance on your mortgage, etc...).
   2125. spike Posted: April 12, 2013 at 10:58 AM (#4411673)
Watching Sen Warren demand consumer accountability from regulators on foreclosures is a TV program I hope gets renewed for many years. She has really delivered since being elected.
   2126. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:12 AM (#4411688)
Some of the newer traffic lights have a counter timing down on its side for pedestrians to know how much time they have left crossing, but also great for drivers since you know if you have time for a green, or the yellow or red is coming down soon and need to slow down and stop. This system needs to be implemented nation wide.

Those pedestrian countdown signals have been around for nearly 40 years. I first saw them in Toronto in 1975 and they've ubiquitous in many part of the DC area for several decades.

What's interesting to me is that this seems to have been the original purpose of yellow lights themselves, which in New York City only date back to the mid-1950's. Prior to that, in Manhattan at least, the light would switch from green to red with no prior warning, followed a few seconds later by the cross street light going from red to green. Needless to say, that wasn't the greatest of systems for preventing either rear end collisions or red light running.
   2127. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:14 AM (#4411692)
If Margaret Thatcher didn't want the common people of Britain to celebrate her death, she shouldn't have devoted her entire professional career to making their lives as unpleasant as possible.

That said, if the US had a game scheduled against Team UK, I'd be fine with having a moment of silence for her, out of respect for the country and the office she held.
   2128. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4411694)
I'd wondered if that'd get a callback.
   2129. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:17 AM (#4411695)
They also make people afraid to make left turns, which does wonders for the traffic flow.

Somewhat relatedly, there should be a special place in Hell reserved for left turn drivers who don't pull up in the intersection while waiting for the opposing traffic to let them turn. I've gotten to the point where I just pass these nervous nellies on the right and go to the spot where they should have been in the first place. It's as if they think that nobody else behind them might also want to turn after them.
   2130. Morty Causa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:21 AM (#4411701)
Is that lawful? Pre-empting the intersection, I mean. Couldn't the driver in the intersection be ticketed if the light turns red while he's still there?

   2131. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:26 AM (#4411709)
That said, if the US had a game scheduled against Team UK, I'd be fine with having a moment of silence for her, out of respect for the country and the office she held.


Sure, but I don't see any problem with honoring the office and thus office holder and also savaging them (not at the same time perhaps, or maybe that would be even better).

Somewhat relatedly, there should be a special place in Hell reserved for left turn drivers who don't pull up in the intersection while waiting for the opposing traffic to let them turn. I've gotten to the point where I just pass these nervous nellies on the right and go to the spot where they should have been in the first place. It's as if they think that nobody else behind them might also want to turn after them.


I agree, but I feel sympathy for them since my younger sister (who now lives in DC) got hit having pulled into the intersection to turn left and got t-boned by an idiot running the red light. She was messed up and the car was totaled. When you pull forward you are pretty darn vulnerable (moreso than many other times at any rate).
   2132. spike Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4411711)
I think if you enter the intersection on green you are good in most states. Passing on the right to do so is a remarkably bad and illegal idea.
   2133. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4411724)
Somewhat relatedly, there should be a special place in Hell reserved for left turn drivers who don't pull up in the intersection while waiting for the opposing traffic to let them turn. I've gotten to the point where I just pass these nervous nellies on the right and go to the spot where they should have been in the first place. It's as if they think that nobody else behind them might also want to turn after them.


Problem is, if you are in the intersection waiting to make a left, and you can't until after the red because of oncoming traffic, you get a ticket.
   2134. zonk Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4411725)
Is that lawful? Pre-empting the intersection, I mean. Couldn't the driver in the intersection be ticketed if the light turns red while he's still there?


My one and only moving violation ever occurred via this route.... though, it got tossed because I showed up in court for the hearing and the ticketing officer didn't -- hence, dismissed.

My rule of thumb is that three cars should be able to turn left on a non-arrowed intersection... but this depends on the lead car and 2nd car aggressively pre-empting the intersection. Sure - you gotta pay attention to oncoming traffic - which means you sometimes ARE making your left turn wholly on red. However, in such cases -- we're usually talking busy intersections where the cross-street traffic is already stopped at the light - and I think any urban driver recognizes that green doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean go -- it means it's your turn, but doesn't magically mean there are no obstacles in your path.

There are certainly plenty of intersections in ANY city where -- if you don't pre-empt the intersection -- you're never going to be able to make a left-turn.

There's a limit -- I hate it when the 4th and 5th cars are essentially entering the intersection and making the turn wholly on red -- but I completely understand and have no beef with drivers in the 1/2/3 car.

My biggest complaint is reserved for drivers who use what are essentially turn lanes on the right to pass... My commuting route takes me through several of these -- places where Addison or Belmont move from 2 lines to one across Western Ave for example -- and while I'll be permissive to cars with out-of-state plates who may not know any better and just got stuck, I have zero patience of cars that I can either tell are trying to game the system, or, by virtue of plate/window sticker are obviously residents who should know better. In such cases, I don't merely focus on ensuring such cars don't get in front of me -- I try to time things so that can't merge behind me either -- screwing them into waiting behind parked cars and appropriately shuttled to the back of the line.
   2135. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4411726)
Is that lawful? Pre-empting the intersection, I mean. Couldn't the driver in the intersection be ticketed if the light turns red while he's still there?


According to the NYS DMV, if you want to turn left at an intersection. The light is green but oncoming traffic is heavy. You should
"Wait in the center of the intersection for traffic to clear."


I mean it has to be that way, what if there is no break in traffic until the light changes?
   2136. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:38 AM (#4411730)

Somewhat relatedly, there should be a special place in Hell reserved for left turn drivers who don't pull up in the intersection while waiting for the opposing traffic to let them turn. I've gotten to the point where I just pass these nervous nellies on the right and go to the spot where they should have been in the first place. It's as if they think that nobody else behind them might also want to turn after them.

My friend got his Honda Civic totalled once (with me in the passenger seat!) in that position. He was waiting out in the inter-section to turn left, and by the time it was his turn the light was turning red. So obviously he had to turn since sitting in the intersection wasn't an option. An SUV coming the other way ran the red and smacked into him as he was turning, and spun us around one and a half times. Fun ride.

The cop who eventually got to the scene gave him the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" talk. It was either his fault because he shouldn't have been turning on a red light, or the light was green and it was his fault for turning across on-coming traffic.

Some good did come out of it though. I actually saw the speeding car just before it hit us and said "uh oh!" So now I drop one of those at random intervals whenever he's driving. It gets some hilarious reactions.
   2137. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM (#4411734)
I think if you enter the intersection on green you are good in most states.


I don't know the law in Florida, but evry time I've seen a car complete the turn after the red at an intersection with cameras, I see the camera flash. Presumably they get an automatic ticket, since there is no actual human involved in the process and thus no discretion. I suppose you could fight it in court, but who wants to do that?
   2138. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM (#4411777)
Somewhat relatedly, there should be a special place in Hell reserved for left turn drivers who don't pull up in the intersection while waiting for the opposing traffic to let them turn. I've gotten to the point where I just pass these nervous nellies on the right and go to the spot where they should have been in the first place. It's as if they think that nobody else behind them might also want to turn after them.

Problem is, if you are in the intersection waiting to make a left, and you can't until after the red because of oncoming traffic, you get a ticket.


All I can say in response is that I've been doing it for 48 years without either a ticket or an accident. And Greg, I certainly didn't mean to indicate that you shouldn't wait until the opposing lanes are clear!

--------------------

According to the NYS DMV, if you want to turn left at an intersection. The light is green but oncoming traffic is heavy. You should
"Wait in the center of the intersection for traffic to clear."

I mean it has to be that way, what if there is no break in traffic until the light changes?


That's certainly been the operative rule in my experience, and if you think about it for a second it's only common sense, for the very reason you mention. The problem is that when the first driver just stays back and waits like a good little Milquetoast, you can go through an entire light cycle without anyone being able to turn. Just as there's a difference between good aggressive driving and bad aggressive driving, there's also a distinction between being sensibly cautious and just being afraid to breathe.

P.S. I also think jaywalking should be legal, but with the provision that the pedestrian assumes 100% of the risk of getting hit in case the driver wasn't expecting to see him suddenly pop out into the middle of traffic. Any pedestrian related accident not involving a marked crosswalk or a driver speeding or running a red light should never involve a lawyer.
   2139. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4411782)
I think the Golden Rule for drivers and pedestrians should be this: Always assume that your worthy "opponent" isn't paying the slightest bit of attention to either you or your concerns. When steel collides with flesh, questions of "right" and "wrong" are pretty much secondary, and no amount of money can mend a crippled body.
   2140. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:18 PM (#4411789)
I also think jaywalking should be legal, but with the provision that the pedestrian assumes 100% of the risk of getting hit in case the driver wasn't expecting to see him suddenly pop out into the middle of traffic. Any pedestrian related accident not involving a marked crosswalk or a driver speeding or running a red light should never involve a lawyer.

I'm kind of surprised, I expected your position to be more:

"Jaywalking should be legal, but the pedestrian assumes 100% of the risk, assuming that the driver previously gave the pedestrian detailed, unbiased information about what happens when you get hit by a car, strict regulation of television shows that utilize car violence but show none of the consequences, the carmakers make horns that blare La Cucaracha anytime the car is within 10 feet of any object, and the driver has graduated from the How Not to Run Over Pedestrians licensing program funded by a 1.5% financial transactions tax."
   2141. Dan The Mediocre Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4411790)
no amount of money can mend a crippled body.


Not even $6 million?
   2142. Steve Treder Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:20 PM (#4411792)
no amount of money can mend a crippled body.


Not even $6 million?

The thread has been won.
   2143. spike Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:21 PM (#4411794)
Florida traffic light code section

Vehicular traffic facing a circular green signal may proceed cautiously straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at such place prohibits either such turn. But vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time such signal is exhibited

Not very clear, but it seems like you can enter if turning left or right on green, then yield if necessary.
   2144. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:24 PM (#4411798)
Looks like between Florida's sensible traffic laws and Texas's tight housing loan regulations, there may be a ray of sunshine down there in the Sun Belt.
   2145. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4411808)
Not even $6 million?


No, that's $31 million in today's dollars
   2146. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4411810)
The group [protesting Thatcher's funeral in person] is organised by Dominic Francis, a Oxford Brookes University student from Tunbridge Wells.

He said the protesters risked being likened to the Westboro Baptist Church, the American fundamentalist organisation that has picketed the funerals of US troops.

He said he was raised to "value compassion, love and forgiveness" and had some reservations about protesting. But, he said, Baroness Thatcher's role in public life meant she and her mourners had no right to be left in peace. He said he opposed Lady Thatcher for, amongst other reasons, opposing the re-unification of Germany and increasing VAT.


At GUNPOINT!!!

What a ####### wanker.
   2147. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:46 PM (#4411832)
What a ####### wanker.

Takes one to know one.
   2148. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:50 PM (#4411835)
These subsidies have led to a major over investment in housing (rather than more productive capital) and made entry level home ownership very expensive.

I haven't followed the whole thread, but this.

My parents bought their nice suburban house in 1982 for about $100,000, the equivalent of about $250,000 today. The government has effectively pumped $5 trillion into the housing market in the interim, which is great for them as their house is probably worth 3-4x that. But it means that I need a lot more money to buy a comparable house today. Sure, there's financing available to make that house affordable to me, but it means that over the course of my lifetime, I end up paying a lot more for housing than my parents did. Even my rent is more expensive as a result because the market will find some equilibrium between the cost of renting and owning.
   2149. BDC Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4411837)
I suppose you could fight it in court, but who wants to do that?

And as I may have posted in some thread like this once, if you do go to court, you go (at least in Texas) to a civil trial: which means that all the city needs is a preponderance of the evidence to fine you. No points on your license, no report to your insurance company (those could be good or bad features depending on your interest and perspective). And since there's no consequence but some money you're basically guaranteed to lose anyway (compounded by the costs of defense), you certainly don't want to do that.

As I say, it's something of a scam: not the existence of traffic laws or fines for violating them, but reducing the process to civil forfeiture. I'm libertarian enough to hate all forms of civil forfeiture: i.e. we're the state, so give us stuff (exacerbated here by the privatization of the process).
   2150. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4411840)
Also, I always pull into the intersection when waiting to make a left turn. That's what you're supposed to do. Once you're in the intersection, you have the right of way (over the cross-traffic after the light becomes red). Otherwise you'll never get to make the turn.
   2151. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 12:58 PM (#4411848)
Takes one to know one.

Good rule of thumb, but in this case the wankery is so obvious that it requires no specialized knowledge of the field.
   2152. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:07 PM (#4411864)
Also, I always pull into the intersection when waiting to make a left turn. That's what you're supposed to do. Once you're in the intersection, you have the right of way (over the cross-traffic after the light becomes red). Otherwise you'll never get to make the turn.


You wait for the next arrow. True, not all intersections have left turn arrows. I don't recall being at an intersection without turn arrows that was busy enough to not be able to make left turns easily and had a red light cam. But my experience is hardly definitive. If I came across this situation, I suppose I'd take my chances. But not at an intersection that has a protected arrow. Yes, I know the law is probably on my side, and maybe the chances of actually getting a ticket that I would have to fight are low. But how much more hassle and time would fighting that ticket cost you vs waiting another minute or so for the next arrow 50 more times? I know I'm not alone in this, as most of the time at an intersection with an arrow and a yield on green and a red light cam, cars do not enter the intersection until they are clear, or mostly clear to proceed. Whether these people are too dumb or too timid to live is irrelevant. The fact is, these cams do screw up traffic in more ways than one.
   2153. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:39 PM (#4411894)
P.S. I also think jaywalking should be legal, but with the provision that the pedestrian assumes 100% of the risk of getting hit in case the driver wasn't expecting to see him suddenly pop out into the middle of traffic. Any pedestrian related accident not involving a marked crosswalk or a driver speeding or running a red light should never involve a lawyer.

This appears to be the case in the UK, where jay-walking is treated like a bit of an urban myth. More than a few British people I've met are sceptical that jaywalking as an illicit activity actually exists and isn't just North Americans trying to take advantage of their gullibility for a laugh.

Though Germany is the other extreme. Do NOT jay-walk in Germany. I cannot stress that enough.
   2154. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:47 PM (#4411905)
Though Germany is the other extreme. Do NOT jay-walk in Germany. I cannot stress that enough.

I have never ever had a problem jay-walking in Germany.
   2155. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4411911)
Selfish question: what do people consider to be an "appropriate" (not doable) amount to spend on a house purchase (not a mortgage payment) as a multiple of annual income? In general, I'm a big believer of live beneath your means, etc... and I haven't said anything about the condition of said house or existing debts / financial responsibilities, etc... but wanted to hear people's thoughts.

2154: I've also hear that jaywalking in Germany is a big no-no. Granted, I haven't been there...
   2156. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:54 PM (#4411921)
Though Germany is the other extreme. Do NOT jay-walk in Germany. I cannot stress that enough.


Jay goose-stepping in the preferred manner of crossing.
   2157. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:55 PM (#4411923)
It's not so much that the police descend on you for jay-walking in Germany (though they might, I don't know).

It's more that none of the locals seem to do it. I've seen people miss their street-car because the cross-walk light hasn't changed in their favour. Like, Sunday morning, zero traffic, street-car waiting 30 feet away, and a woman frantically waving at the driver to wait for the light to change for her. My uncle (grew up in Italy and was just visiting Germany) was actually stopped once by a random citizen for jay-walking. Put his hand on his shoulder and angrily yelled at him to get on the sidewalk.

I'm sure you can get by doing it and just draw some looks, but the culture of crossing the street is just so fascinatingly different between the UK and Germany.
   2158. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4411924)

I have never ever had a problem jay-walking in Germany.


You are extremely lucky. My friend in Germany jaywalked while pushing a stroller (there was absolutely no traffic, and she did so without really thinking about it), and a nearby policeman who was stationed outside a consulate came over and shouted at her like she was the worst parent in existence. Then an Australian woman also crossed at the same place against the light and he screamed at her.

   2159. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4411925)
Selfish question: what do people consider to be an "appropriate" (not doable) amount to spend on a house purchase (not a mortgage payment) as a multiple of annual income? In general, I'm a big believer of live beneath your means, etc... and I haven't said anything about the condition of said house or existing debts / financial responsibilities, etc... but wanted to hear people's thoughts.

We spent about 3 times our combined gross income. Put about 1/3 down. My maximum limit on what I would have let my wife go to (she picked out the house) was about 4 times, if I really, really liked the house.
   2160. Swoboda is freedom Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4411935)
I've also hear that jaywalking in Germany is a big no-no.

A cyclist almost ran me down while I was jaywalking in Berlin. There was no traffic, but he brushed by me and yelled at me. He didn't move an inch to not actually hit me.
   2161. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4411941)
The other European pedestrian rule of thumb is, be very, very, very aware of what part of the side-walk is pedestrian designated, and what part is bicycle designated. Those guys do not mess around.
   2162. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4411949)
I have never ever had a problem jay-walking in Germany.

You are extremely lucky.

Thousands of times apparently.
   2163. Kurt Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4411950)
A cyclist almost ran me down while I was jaywalking in Berlin. There was no traffic, but he brushed by me and yelled at me. He didn't move an inch to not actually hit me.


If you jaywalked such that a bike almost hit you, you did it wrong.
   2164. Delorians Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4411953)
We spent about 3 times our combined gross income.

This is about what we spent. Didn't put down near as much as snapper, though.
   2165. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4411957)
I'm gonna stay relatively low - probably 2-3 times my income (though I don't plan on putting more than 20% down). Last house is worth about what my ex-to-be and I made last year, so I've got a little bit of sticker shock.
(I'm a big believer in living within my means as well. Thanks for the replies...)
   2166. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:35 PM (#4412002)
Jonathan Winters dies.
   2167. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:51 PM (#4412021)
Jonathan Winters dies.

RIP
   2168. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4412025)
Ding dong the witch is dead.
   2169. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4412028)
increasing VAT


I'm not sure why you think that's an unreasonable position. Consumption taxes are in general among the most regressive types of taxation, so they're disproportionately hard on the low-income individuals that Thatcher spent her whole life grinding into the dirt. An individual might justifiably wonder why Britain was funding its government with arcane bullshit like this instead of a more progressive form of taxation.
   2170. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4412029)
#2168 I think think Winters would approve of people cracking a joke today.

   2171. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4412033)
I'm not sure why you think that's an unreasonable position. Consumption taxes are in general among the most regressive types of taxation, so they're disproportionately hard on the low-income individuals that Thatcher spent her whole life grinding into the dirt. An individual might justifiably wonder why Britain was funding its government with arcane ######## like this instead of a more progressive form of taxation.

The wanker didn't have a clue about what Thatcher actually did in office. He's just leftie play-acting, striking a vacuous pose.

It isn't unreasonable to disfavor a higher VAT; it's beyond preposterous to organize a bunch of your friends to make showy asses out of themselves at the funeral of someone who wanted a higher VAT. Even if the deceased wasn't real fond of a reunified Germany either.
   2172. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4412039)
#2078 It's moderately tough to get a mortgage in Canada with "only" 20% down. It's actively discouraged by government policies (which require you to take out insurance on the mortgage)

You theoretically only need 5% down, and in a buyer's market a seller will take what they can get of course.


Wait, what? Those two 'grafs seems at least somewhat contradictory.

In Quebec in 2007 my best friend and his sweetie had less than 20% and were able to get a construction loan (invariably tougher to get than a mortgage) after she'd been working only six months. How does the government discourage "only" 20% down payments. Is it solely through the insurance requirement, or are there other things?

Of course, given that you could recently get an excellent apartment in Montreal with a balcony for six hundred a month, the pain of renting is not so great. How those poor people made it in some neighborhoods through six weeks without power one February I'll never know.

I now live in a neighborhood with ample street parking so I haven't had to park illegaly in years, but I'll believe that last part when I see it - starting with being able to drive on DC roads at a reasonable speed without getting his with a $125 fine from a speed camera.


What's the deal with 'confronting the witness against you' in these situations? I know we don't really do the Constitution any longer, but is there ANY way to check up on the accuracy of these kinds of cameras?

One thing I've noticed about traffic lights in the UK that I never saw in Canada is that they give you a bit of a heads up for a light change. When you're sitting at a red light the yellow light will momentarily come on (while the red is still on) just before it switches to green to let you know you're about to move.

Since I'm not a driver, I have no idea how helpful (or distracting?) this is, or whether it is common in the US, but it struck me as a potentially useful idea.


So, I'm driving, I glance at the light, or the sun's behind it and it's difficult to see, but it looks yellow. Do I hit the brakes, or is it about to turn green?

I can see it being very slightly convenient, and very occasionally confusing (and therefore dangerous).
   2173. Greg K Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4412048)

The wanker didn't have a clue about what Thatcher actually did in office. He's just leftie play-acting, striking a vacuous pose.

Assuming the second paragraph is true, how do you know this?

The funeral protest seems a bit silly to me, but I don't see any reason from his quote to assume he doesn't know anything about what Thatcher did in office.
   2174. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4412053)
Ding dong the witch is dead.

i found the news that this song is rising in popularity in response to the death of prime minister thatcher to be very disappointing.

and no, i am not requesting folks suggest even more insulting song types/titles

Neville chamberlain she was not.
   2175. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4412071)
Is it solely through the insurance requirement, or are there other things?


To be honest I wasn't paying attention to the details. But I do know that in the last budget they actually introduced measures to tighten up the mortgage requirement. I believe it's as simple as a graduated scale on the insurance rates. IE insurance is required if down payment is below 25% but the rate varies depending on how much. There's a CMHC page on this if you're really interested.
   2176. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4412077)
Assuming the second paragraph is true, how do you know this?


Yes, exactly. You seem to be projecting a bit...
   2177. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4412087)
Assuming the second paragraph is true, how do you know this?

Because he wouldn't have mentioned Germany and the VAT if he did. From the leftie perspective, there's plenty more to complain about than those things.(*) It's like me organizing a protest at Al Campanis's funeral and when a reporter asks why, me saying, "He traded Jeffrey Leonard for Joe Ferguson, the rotten bastard."

So he's been taught or told in some vague sense that Thatcher was terrible -- she wasn't "compassionate" enough or somesuch -- and it's the leftie thing to think Thatcher's terrible, so he thinks Thatcher's terrible.

(*) And he's pretty clearly not even keeping up on the lists of horribles that have been freshly in the news.
   2178. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4412090)
Neville chamberlain she was not.


No, they most certainly can't make that comparison
   2179. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:51 PM (#4412094)
Assuming the second paragraph is true, how do you know this?

Because he wouldn't have mentioned Germany and the VAT if he did. From the leftie perspective, there's plenty more to complain about than those things.(*) It's like me organizing a protest at Al Campanis's funeral and when a reporter asks why, me saying, "He traded Jeffrey Leonard for Joe Ferguson, the rotten bastard."


Now now, that's not a good example of what you are trying to say- it's quite possible that a Dodger BASEBALL fan would be more upset at Campanis for having made bad trades than for anything he did to annoy the PC crowd.


You are assuming that the wanker is a lefty, but since his specific complaint are kind of irrelevant to why leftie share Thatcher, assuming he's a wanker... but perhaps he's not a leftie, perhaps he's a Germanophile... who really cares about tax issues....

   2180. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 03:58 PM (#4412102)
i found the news that this song is rising in popularity in response to the death of prime minister thatcher to be very disappointing.


I find it slightly hilarious that the most vocal proponents of Thatcher's legacy are Americans who never lived under her rule, while the most vocal dissents come from people who did. If you don't understand why the Scots still hate Maggie you don't understand local politics.
   2181. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:08 PM (#4412111)
sam

i don't recall commenting on her legacy

at his basic level i think reveling in someone's death to be in poor taste.

to me this is the flip side of folks dancing around in the wake of Osama bin laden dying.

we should be better than that

//cue sam stating he makes no claim on having any element of common decency
   2182. Ron J2 Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:12 PM (#4412115)
#2180 Ditto for Liverpool residents. Though in the case of Liverpool she took the heat for advisers with even more extreme views than hers. Her cabinet seriously discussed simply writing off Liverpool in the wake of the 1981 riots, but it was really Geoffrey Howe's idea. Her cabinet though.

“It would be regrettable if some of the brighter ideas for renewing economic activity were to be sown only on relatively stony ground on the banks of the Mersey.”
   2183. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4412120)
Sure, there's a "common decency" element at play, Harvey. But if anyone in the UK isn't going to get a large dose of common decency at death, it's probably going to be the woman who spent her entire career arguing that common decency was bullocks and the idea of a social requirement to care for others complete soft-headed bullshit. Live by the failure to empathize, die with a national parade thrown by your enemies. Such is the way of the world. You think I'm not dancing when Cheney goes, you're crazy.
   2184. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4412121)
i found the news that this song is rising in popularity in response to the death of prime minister thatcher to be very disappointing.


Meh, I wonder how the media in Argentina is reporting this.

Well it seems the Argies are upset that they weren't invited to her funeral, not that Kirchner would have accepted the invitation (which I suspect is why they weren't invited).

And after being hissy over it, Argentina's ambassador to London was invited... (which has upset Thatcher's family)

It seems that many Argentine newspapers have not chosen to take the high road either...
   2185. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:20 PM (#4412126)
Sure, there's a "common decency" element at play, Harvey. But if anyone in the UK isn't going to get a large dose of common decency at death, it's probably going to be the woman who spent her entire career arguing that common decency was bullocks and the idea of a social requirement to care for others complete soft-headed ########. Live by the failure to empathize, die with a national parade thrown by your enemies. Such is the way of the world. You think I'm not dancing when Cheney goes, you're crazy.

That just makes you sound like a small, small man, Sam.
   2186. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4412127)
at his basic level i think reveling in someone's death to be in poor taste.

to me this is the flip side of folks dancing around in the wake of Osama bin laden dying.

we should be better than that


Sadly I'm not better than that, I was in lower Manhattan the morning of 9/11/11, I have absolutely no issues with people dancing over Osama's death

Is it tasteless? Classless?
Yes, but I think at a certain level it's to be expected.

One person's hero is another's monster. Personally I'm not a conservative (as many may have noted), but I think the outpouring of hatred towards Thatcher seems a bit overwrought, but if you really do think she was that awful...
   2187. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:23 PM (#4412129)
That just makes you sound like a small, small man, Sam.


You do know who you are responding to don't you?
   2188. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:29 PM (#4412137)
Sure, there's a "common decency" element at play, Harvey. But if anyone in the UK isn't going to get a large dose of common decency at death, it's probably going to be the woman who spent her entire career arguing that common decency was bullocks and the idea of a social requirement to care for others complete soft-headed ########. Live by the failure to empathize, die with a national parade thrown by your enemies. Such is the way of the world. You think I'm not dancing when Cheney goes, you're crazy.

The thing that's so funny about this (*) is the grandiosity of it -- as if it's self-evident that offending the leftie notion of "common decency" and proper politics is an offense so grave that it definitionally warrants a showy, theatrical, borderline unhinged response.

You're a faction in a far broader society, lefties. It's not set up for you to win every battle, and you're not going to win every battle, and you shouldn't win every battle. Get over yourselves. Lose with some ####### class.

(*) Not just this, literally, but more the whole to-do. I don't mean to use Sam's remark as anything but a jumping-off point.
   2189. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:35 PM (#4412143)
You do know who you are responding to don't you?

Yeah, well harder cases than Sam have reformed themselves. Who knows what will awaken his self-awareness ;-)
   2190. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:45 PM (#4412155)
You're a faction in a far broader society, lefties. It's not set up for you to win every battle, and you're not going to win every battle, and you shouldn't win every battle. Get over yourselves. Lose with some ####### class.

Many Leftists still basically subscribe to the Marxist rot about the historical inevitability of their complete triumph.
   2191. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:51 PM (#4412167)
Because he wouldn't have mentioned Germany and the VAT if he did. From the leftie perspective, there's plenty more to complain about than those things.(*) It's like me organizing a protest at Al Campanis's funeral and when a reporter asks why, me saying, "He traded Jeffrey Leonard for Joe Ferguson, the rotten bastard."


If he's complaining about things that are true but fairly trivial in the broad scheme of things, I'd tend to think that makes it more likely that he has a deeply-felt grievance, rather than less. Any moron can spend five minutes on Google and come up with a list of conventional complaints about Thatcher, but only someone with an actual personal stake in things is going to give a #### about her position on German reunification.

By way of analogy: If you asked me about the problems with Dave Littlefield's time as GM of the Pirates, one of the first things I'd bring up would be the shabby way the team treated Clayton Hamilton. In terms of things that did actual tangible damage to the franchise, it's way the hell down on the list, but it struck a chord with me because it was just so stupid and infuriating. Somebody who didn't live through the Littlefield era as a fan would give you the obvious examples instead, like the Morris trade or the decision to draft Moskos instead of Wieters.
   2192. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 04:51 PM (#4412169)
That just makes you sound like a small, small man, Sam.


I'd rather be a small man who gets to enjoy a world without Cheney in it than a small man who doesn't.
   2193. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:00 PM (#4412190)
By way of analogy: If you asked me about the problems with Dave Littlefield's time as GM of the Pirates, one of the first things I'd bring up would be the shabby way the team treated Clayton Hamilton. In terms of things that did actual tangible damage to the franchise, it's way the hell down on the list, but it struck a chord with me because it was just so stupid and infuriating. Somebody who didn't live through the Littlefield era as a fan would give you the obvious examples instead, like the Morris trade or the decision to draft Moskos instead of Wieters.

So what you're saying is that he's kind of the UK version of Kramer? Finding George Will attractive and clean -- well-shampooed, even -- but not very bright?
   2194. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:19 PM (#4412224)
So what you're saying is that he's kind of the UK version of Kramer? Finding George Will attractive and clean -- well-shampooed, even -- but not very bright?


I have no idea what that means. Is it a Seinfeld reference?
   2195. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:22 PM (#4412226)
Many Leftists still basically subscribe to the Marxist rot about the historical inevitability of their complete triumph.
You of all people should know better than to mock a belief in the inevitable.

And of the last 30 years has taught us anything, it's that the proletariate will not win out. Their wealthy masters will.
   2196. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: April 12, 2013 at 05:48 PM (#4412255)
That just makes you sound like a small, small man, Sam.


Well, you've clearly never seen my penis.

Many Leftists still basically subscribe to the Marxist rot about the historical inevitability of their complete triumph.


Tell me again about the coming permanent majority and the End of History, Uncle Karl!
   2197. Morty Causa Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:34 PM (#4412290)
Neville chamberlain she was not.


Chamberlain was actually a decent, honorable man. He trusted that a certain person who alleged he was too was the same. Churchill, once he took power insisted he was a good man and refused to let his side trash him. Oh, and Churchill losing the election in 1945 (and losing it by a landslide) has to say something about British politics and British voters. Can you imagine Harry Truman losing the election in November 1945--even if Dwight Eisenhower had run at that time. (Well, okay, maybe if his opponent had been Ike. Probably no one else, though.)
   2198. Canker Soriano Posted: April 12, 2013 at 06:39 PM (#4412296)
Jonathan Winters dies.

Like Smiler Grogan, he has kicked the bucket.

RIP indeed. One of the true original comic voices of the last 60 years.
   2199. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 07:22 PM (#4412324)
You of all people should know better than to mock a belief in the inevitable.

And of the last 30 years has taught us anything, it's that the proletariate will not win out. Their wealthy masters will.


Belief in free will pretty much rules out anything inevitable. I don't believe anything is inevitable in life except death and judgement. Everything else is up to us.
   2200. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 12, 2013 at 07:23 PM (#4412327)

Well, you've clearly never seen my penis.


That makes you sound like a really, really small man.
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