I'm very intrigued by the Sandberg management experiment. I don't really expect great things, but I'm curious as to how it turns out.

Sure, why not. Wonder what he'll do the first time someone in the dugout gives him a hotfoot.

Sandberg will end up just like Buck Showalter...arguing about the sleeve length on his straight-jacket.

Sure, why not. Wonder what he'll do the first time someone in the dugout gives him a hotfoot.

Or sleeps with his wife?

It's wierd -- Sandberg was my favorite player for so long, ever since his first season as a Cub in 1982, playing 3B and starting off 1 for his first 30 (almost a typical Sandberg April as it turned out). For about the last 5 years, though, almost everything he's done has turned me off. It just seems too . . . hollow, I guess.

Twice, he's believed that because he's Ryne Sandberg, beloved Cub and Hall of Famer, he can just walk into Jim Hendry's office and be given the Cubs managerial gig. Even now it seems that the only reason he's going to Peoria is because he's been told twice that he can't just become Cubs manager without any experience whatsoever.

It doesn't seem that he's down in Peoria because he truly wants to develop players. To the extent he wants to mold talent, all he talks about is instilling "respect for the game"; I've read nothing about how he plans to teach plate discipline, improve fielding, or develop pitching. Instead, it seems that the only reason he's down there is to pad a resume and that he'll probably be gone this time next year. I suppose that in many respects, he's not all that different from other minor league managers who dream of MLB gigs, but it still just feels too calculated.

As for his comments, it's almost like he wants to be a bitter old man, except that he's not old and not quite bitter either. What will be interesting is how he will deal with the kids. He's saying things that make him seem like he'll be a red-ass, but given his demeanor, I just can't see him going off on anyone.

"I had a mobbed-up uncle that would knock you upside the head if you laughed during dinner..."

Obviously not from the Joe Pesci school of thought, huh?

Sandberg was also my favorite.

He has been coming off as something of a "In My Day" sort of guy. I think Sandberg probably did play the game the "right" way. I think he probably did work his ass off, etc. How any of that translates into working with the kids, I have no idea, and I'm not sure how much his own, rather quiet personality fits into it all. Should be interesting.

Wearing your hat backwards, having your shirt unbuttoned, and untucking your jersey on the field...

This is EXACTLY how Nazi Germany started!

Or sleeps with his wife?

"Aaugh! My wife! My scrappy little SS who hits it to the right side with a runner on second! Aw, I can't stay mad at <u>you</u>. You, however...I want a divorce."

Oddly enough, when I think of "ballplayer with his hat on backwards", the first image that springs to mind is Ken Griffey Jr. back when he was with the Mariners. Seems like he always had his hat on backwards during BP or interviews.

I sure hope the Cubs can avoid developing someone like that. That's the kind of bad egg that can just ruin an organization's reputation.

“Wearing your hat backwards, having your shirt unbuttoned, and untucking your jersey on the field may seem like small things, but that lack of respect for the uniform is part of a general lack of respect for the game and how you play it.

“It’s not a big jump from that to deciding you don’t have to move a runner up because it’s just 1 little run at stake, and what’s the big deal, right?

Well, now it makes sense. Wearing a hat backwards is indicative of a playing who doesn't care about winning.

The Cubs definitely rack disciprine.

starting off 1 for his first 30

Almost...Ryno began his career 1-for-27, then 2-for-37. (That's with Philly in late '81, then with the Cubs in '82.) How many (non-pitcher) Hall of Famer had just two hits in their first twenty-two games in the big leagues?

How many (non-pitcher) Hall of Famer had just two hits in their first twenty-two games in the big leagues?

Neifi Perez started his career off going 2-19.

I recall at the time hearing about how Willie Mays got off to a lousy start as a rookie, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

Twice, he's believed that because he's Ryne Sandberg, beloved Cub and Hall of Famer, he can just walk into Jim Hendry's office and be given the Cubs managerial gig.

This strikes me as unfair. I've read or heard nothing that indicated that he expected to get the job or that he had any kind of sense of entitlement. From all accounts I've seen, he wanted an opportunity to be interviewed and to be considered for the position. Sure, his status is probably what got him the interview (I doubt many others with his lack of experience would have been afforded the same respect), but this is a lot different than walking in expecting to be handed the gig.

Even now it seems that the only reason he's going to Peoria is because he's been told twice that he can't just become Cubs manager without any experience whatsoever.

Why is this a problem, exactly? If someone ran for president and lost, would you chastise them for becoming a governor with the ultimate goal of becoming president some day? Or what about any other industry? "Sorry, we don't think you have the experience to be an executive just yet, but we have a great management training program."

I just don't see his aspiration to be Cubs manager and his willingness to start at the bottom of the ladder as valid targets of criticism.

From all accounts I've seen, he wanted an opportunity to be interviewed and to be considered for the position.

While different from expecting to be hired, it is still pretty egotistical that as a former player with zero managing or coaching experience (I'm ignoring any spring training or "roving instructor" stuff) that he should even expect to be interviewed or considered for an MLB managerial position.

I just don't see his aspiration to be Cubs manager and his willingness to start at the bottom of the ladder as valid targets of criticism.

He seems to be going to Peoria to put a check next to "managerial experience". Not to actually MANAGE and TEACH and do the actual job. Well, other than teach the punks how to wear a uniform.

This strikes me as unfair. I've read or heard nothing that indicated that he expected to get the job or that he had any kind of sense of entitlement. From all accounts I've seen, he wanted an opportunity to be interviewed and to be considered for the position.

We're talking about semantics then and I realize mine were somewhat slanted to fit my personal opinion. Still, why would he want to be considered for the position if he didn't want it or think he could get it?


I just don't see his aspiration to be Cubs manager and his willingness to start at the bottom of the ladder as valid targets of criticism.

It's not, if that was/is his genuine motive. I don't happen to believe that it is, and I expressed that skepticism in Post #5 when I said that "I suppose that in many respects, he's not all that different from other minor league managers who dream of MLB gigs, but it still just feels too calculated."

Why do I believe it's too calculated and not genuine? It's just my personal opinion, but as I noted, it seems that he's not at all interested in developing major leaguers -- which is what he should be doing as a minor league manager. Instead, all we read are his rants about how modern athletes don't respect the game.

Purely by contrast, we didn't hear any of this junk when Jody Davis took the Peoria gig. He just quietly took the position, did his job, and seemingly went out of his way to promote his players.

He seems to be going to Peoria to put a check next to "managerial experience". Not to actually MANAGE and TEACH and do the actual job. Well, other than teach the punks how to wear a uniform.

Why can't it be both? Obviously, he wants the experience and he's not hiding that. But he's shown a willingness to teach in the past (see his spring and roving instructor gigs), and I don't see why that would change now. I think he's intelligent enough to know that he's not going to get any closer to becoming an MLB manager if he just sits on the bench and doesn't lift a finger. I think he understands that he's going to have to show that he can do the job in order to advance up the ladder.

By the way, here is something he said in his initial press conference:

"This is a stepping stone so I can one day manage in the Major Leagues," he said. "I think this is the start of what I need to do."

But here's something else he said in the same interview:

"I'll be talking to the players about my passion for the game of baseball and playing the game the right way," he said. "This is all about the prospects and the young players and all about helping them develop for the Major Leagues."

I don't think gaining experience and "MANAGING and TEACHING" are mutually exclusive, and apparently neither does he. The "back in my day" stuff wears thin on me, too, but I don't see how his willingness to start at the bottom is subject to derision.

I recall at the time hearing about how Willie Mays got off to a lousy start as a rookie, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

IIRC, it was 0-for-12, and 1-for-26. The one hit was a tape-measure home run off of Warren Spahn, however.

The "back in my day" stuff wears thin on me, too, but I don't see how his willingness to start at the bottom is subject to derision.

As I said twice now, if Sandberg is truly interested in developing minor league talent (as well as padding his resume), there would be nothing wrong with it.

I just don't happen to believe that he really has a fondness for developing anything other than his resume and a "respect for the game." Why do I have the feeling that Sandberg will leave after an unremarkable 2007, then throw his hat into the ring in 2010 when Lou Piniella leaves?

Why do I believe it's too calculated and not genuine? It's just my personal opinion, but as I noted, it seems that he's not at all interested in developing major leaguers -- which is what he should be doing as a minor league manager. Instead, all we read are his rants about how modern athletes don't respect the game.

Fair enough, but see the quote posted in 19. He has acknowledged that he will be there to develop players and as I said above, he's certainly displayed a willingness to teach young players in the past. Regarding his "respect the game" rants, I don't really think he's different than 90% of retired players in that regard. Joe Girardi gives basically the same soundbites. He's gotten good pub from his HoF speech, and I'm not surprised to see him try to get some mileage out of it.

Purely by contrast, we didn't hear any of this junk when Jody Davis took the Peoria gig. He just quietly took the position, did his job, and seemingly went out of his way to promote his players.

Ok, but these situations are a little different, don't you think? Sandberg is higher profile than Davis and people care a lot more about what Sandberg has to say than what Davis does. Knowing what we know about Sandberg, I'm guessing that if he has quotes in the newspaper, it's because the press sought him out, not the other way around.

Like I said above, he's obviously looking for experience and he's not hiding that, but I don't think that has to preclude his willingness to tackle the essential duties of the job. Would you prefer that he coyly deny any interest in becoming an MLB manager?

He had played in the majors some the previous September and had a few hits before this streak, but Robin Ventura, in his first full season (1990), had an 0-for-39 streak from April 21 to May 9, according to Retrosheet. At the time, I remember Ventura's hitless streak being compared to Sandberg's early struggles.

I'm not too familiar with hockey, but can someone who knows the sport explain the significance of fighting in it? What I mean is, why is a hockey fight a non-event while a basketball fight, or any type of violence really, a "black eye on the sport"?

As I said twice now, if Sandberg is truly interested in developing minor league talent (as well as padding his resume), there would be nothing wrong with it.

I just don't happen to believe that he really has a fondness for developing anything other than his resume and a "respect for the game."

Well, this is what I find unfair. You're basically ascribing him selfish motives based on a few soundbites (for which the press has been clamoring) before he's even spent a day in uniform. Let's give the guy a chance. I think his reputation as a classy and respectful guy deserves at least that much. He's not Mark Grace, for chrissakes.

It's a shame Larry Bowa appeared to have rubbed off so strongly on Sandberg.

Sure, why not. Wonder what he'll do the first time someone in the dugout gives him a hotfoot.

Good question - despite his quiet reputation, Sandberg was renowned for giving hotfoots himself when he played.

While different from expecting to be hired, it is still pretty egotistical that as a former player with zero managing or coaching experience (I'm ignoring any spring training or "roving instructor" stuff) that he should even expect to be interviewed or considered for an MLB managerial position.

A fair number of star players went into managing without prior coaching/managing experience, Ted Williams, Joe Torre, Pete Rose, etc. Not saying it's the best path, but I don't see it as outrageous for Sandberg to think he was a legitimate option for the Cubs.

He had played in the majors some the previous September and had a few hits before this streak, but Robin Ventura, in his first full season (1990), had an 0-for-39 streak from April 21 to May 9, according to Retrosheet. At the time, I remember Ventura's hitless streak being compared to Sandberg's early struggles.

I was at the game where Ventura finally got a hit. He rolled one about 40 feet down the 1st base line and beat it out. He homered later in the game to start a big Sox comeback victory.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Iventr0010021990.htm

Sandberg is higher profile than Davis and people care a lot more about what Sandberg has to say than what Davis does. Knowing what we know about Sandberg, I'm guessing that if he has quotes in the newspaper, it's because the press sought him out, not the other way around.

True, but I also believe that if the press sought out Jody Davis last year -- and I believe they did -- Davis wasn't spouting shallow nonsense about instilling a respect for the game. Indeed, Davis didn't even start in the Cubs organization; he earlier managed the Calgary Outlaws of the Canadian League

Fair enough, but see the quote posted in 19. He has acknowledged that he will be there to develop players and as I said above, he's certainly displayed a willingness to teach young players in the past.

I don't buy that one brief comment about developing players -- in the midst of a lengthy rant about respect for the game -- demonstrates a true motive.

Look, I could be wrong. I hope that I am. I would love it if Sandberg stayed in the organization, spent year or three in the minors, saw his kids develop, and waited to throw his hat in the ring when he had more experience and a track record. For now, though, I'm skeptical that his motives are all that genuine.


Well, this is what I find unfair. You're basically ascribing him selfish motives based on a few soundbites (for which the press has been clamoring) before he's even spent a day in uniform.

First of all, am I or am I not entitled to my opinion? Second, my opinion -- which I fully recognize as being subjective -- is based not just on his Hall of Fame speech, but also by his comments in several other media outlets as well as his actions.

Obviously I'm weighing some things differently than you, but it's my opinion -- I don't think one can characterize my doubt as "unfair." It is what it is.

I was at the game where Ventura finally got a hit. He rolled one about 40 feet down the 1st base line and beat it out. He homered later in the game to start a big Sox comeback victory.

Awesome. I remember that now that you mention it. I think I saw it on TV.

I can't blame Sandberg for thinking he had a shot at the Cubs job. Look at Girardi. He got the Marlins job after, what, 2 years as Torre's bench coach? He's a Hall of Famer forever associated with the Cubs. I'm not saying he should have gotten the job, but I can't blame him for feeling like he had a shot.

Also, I can't, at this point, assume or even suspect that he's doing this just to pad a resume. Or at the least, that even if he is doing it to pad a resume that he's not going to do a good job and take it seriously. Actually, I think very few (if any) managers take jobs in the minors so they can teach kids and develop players. I think that's why guys become coaches and roving infield instructors. I think the fast majority of guys, even the best ones at developing players, take the job in order to move up the ladder and get a shot at the Show.

All that said, I'm hoping Derrek Lee never retires. It seems like whenever my favorite Cub retires they go all "in my day", become vaguely dickish, and say stuff that make me sour on them.

i think anyone could have demanded the cubs manager job, as they would all do better then dusty

"Aaugh! My wife! My scrappy little SS who hits it to the right side with a runner on second! Aw, I can't stay mad at you. You, however...I want a divorce."

Hilarious....RDF....MBS etc.

Best Regards

John

Actually, I think very few (if any) managers take jobs in the minors so they can teach kids and develop players. I think that's why guys become coaches and roving infield instructors. I think the fast majority of guys, even the best ones at developing players, take the job in order to move up the ladder and get a shot at the Show.

Of course, and I acknowledged this in Post #5. It seems to me, though, that if they want you to manage in the minors, then you should go into that job with the goals that go with that job. I'm not naive enough to think that Jody Davis or any other minor league manager wouldn't love the chance to manage in MLB. I just believe that Sandberg's motivation is too transparent and am skeptical that he gives a tinker's damn about doing what it takes to be a *successful* minor league manager. He just wants to be able to say he paid his dues, even if he wasn't particularly serious about it.

Again, just my opinion based on his comments and actions over the last few years. I hope I'm proven wrong.

Twice, he's believed that because he's Ryne Sandberg, beloved Cub and Hall of Famer, he can just walk into Jim Hendry's office and be given the Cubs managerial gig.

How come HOFers in the NBA (Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, etc) instantly make the jump from player to manager, yet everyone gets all up in arms about 'experience' when they do it it baseball? Is managing a baseball team more difficult than coaching an NBA squad? Doesn't seem like it.
Experience is important, but I'd rather have the right guy. Now whether Ryno is the right guy is a question I can't answer...

First of all, am I or am I not entitled to my opinion? Second, my opinion -- which I fully recognize as being subjective -- is based not just on his Hall of Fame speech, but also by his comments in several other media outlets as well as his actions.

To me, his actions of being an instructor show me that he has been genuinely interested in teaching the game in the past, and I don't see any evidence that has changed. He may not be any good at it, but he wants to do it.

You absolutely are entitled to your own opinion, but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to see what the guy does before forming such a negative one. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I realize I'm probably coming off as a Sandberg fanboy (which I guess I am), but I'm fairly neutral about this managing thing. I doubt he'll be very good and he'll probably suck, but I'm willing to see what he does before criticizing him.

Heck, next thing you know these kids will want to manage while they're still playing! Why, back in my day....

To me, his actions of being an instructor show me that he has been genuinely interested in teaching the game in the past,

He was what -- a spring training instructor in 1998? That seems as much a publicity stunt as anything else.

You absolutely are entitled to your own opinion, bt I don't understand why you wouldn't want to see what the guy does before forming such a negative one. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Sure. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trying to make a judgment, per se, as much as I'm trying to express skepticism. I'm simply not 100% sure that he truly wants to be a successful minor league manager. If the Peoria talent plays well, no one would be happier than me. There are very few people who are more fanboys of Sandberg (as a player, anyway) than me.

He was what -- a spring training instructor in 1998? That seems as much a publicity stunt as anything else.

According to this, he's done it the past four years. I believe he also did it in '98 or '99, yes.

I'm simply not 100% sure that he truly wants to be a successful minor league manager.

I don't see why not. The only way he's going to realize his goal of becoming an MLB manager is if he has success at this level. If he doesn't do a good job, he's not going to have a shot.

Sandberg is higher profile than Davis

You must be joking. No one sang songs about Ryne Sandberg.

How come HOFers in the NBA (Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, etc) instantly make the jump from player to manager, yet everyone gets all up in arms about 'experience' when they do it it baseball?

I think it was just as stupid. Magic turned out extremely poorly. MJ never coached, IIRC. Bird is Jesus, so of course he did fine.

To me, his actions of being an instructor show me that he has been genuinely interested in teaching the game in the past,

IMO, those gigs are generally BS ways to involve a former player with the organization.

A fair number of star players went into managing without prior coaching/managing experience, Ted Williams, Joe Torre, Pete Rose, etc. Not saying it's the best path, but I don't see it as outrageous for Sandberg to think he was a legitimate option for the Cubs.

Also, don't believe Larry Dierker had any prior experience either, and he won a few division titles. Sandberg played long enough that he knows what goes on in the clubhouse and on a major league team. If the Cubs had wanted to, they could have given him the job - he couldn't have been any worse than Dusty Baker.

told twice that he can't just become Cubs manager without any experience whatsoever.

Worked with Willie Randolph and the Mets... and all they had to live with was a year and a half of screwed up tactics until he started to finally figure some things out half way through last year. (At least thats my gut).

"I'll be talking to the players about my passion for the game of baseball and playing the game the right way," he said. "This is all about the prospects and the young players and all about helping them develop for the Major Leagues."

I bet Milledge wishes someone taught him the right way to play the game.

Worked with Willie Randolph and the Mets...

That's weird, I could have sworn Willie was a coach with the Yankees.

There was one whole year between the end of Lou Piniella's playing career and the beginning of his MLB managing career.

I'm not too familiar with hockey, but can someone who knows the sport explain the significance of fighting in it? What I mean is, why is a hockey fight a non-event while a basketball fight, or any type of violence really, a "black eye on the sport"?

Hockey players are white, basketball players are black.

Hockey players are white, basketball players are black.

No. It's because hockey is a non-event.

Hockey players are white, basketball players are black.

No. It's because hockey is a non-event.

Both of these can be true, and even correlated.

Frankly, I am surprised to see so many comments about something so trivial as Sandberg comments in the DH, since

1) He is quite far removed from the ML scene

2) The lack of evidence that a ML manager has any substantive impact toward a teams W/L record.

A great player providing some insight as to how he sees the game and what he believes is the right way to go about your business in the public eye, is a far cry less important than Mr Stupid signing a bunch of bottom of the rotation starters to big $ contracts.

This will only become important if he evers dons a ML uniform again & Jim Hendry is forever banished from being a Cub employee in any shape, size or form.

When will this franchise hire a GM who knows what the hell he's doing?