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Friday, July 28, 2017

David Price plagued with left elbow woes again | MLB.com

Ugh.

A topsy-turvy season for Red Sox lefty David Price has added another twist, as the starting pitcher will miss his start Friday and will likely go back on the 10-day disabled list with recurring left elbow woes, a source told MLB.com. Brian Johnson will start Friday night against the Royals.

Jim Furtado Posted: July 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: david price, injuries, red sox

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   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5501511)
Eckersley should attack him on air for being a little ##### and not pitching through pain.
   2. Captain Supporter Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5501512)
No problem. All they need to do is trade all of their big prospects for another pitcher. Oh wait. Dombrowski already traded them all.
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:10 PM (#5501519)
Is that the official diagnosis? The doctor comes in with a grave look on his face and says, "David, I'm afraid you've got woes again." "But doc, you said I got rid of the woes!" "I'm sorry, David. According to these tests, you have recurring woes. It's quite common among pitchers, unfortunately."
   4. Bote Man Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:16 PM (#5501526)
BREAKING: Studies Show That Pitchers Get Injured. Film at 11.
   5. CheersUnusualPlays Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5501529)
Eck will wait for his bad rehab start
   6. asinwreck Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5501533)
Well, if they don't have enough to get Darvish or Gray, I'm sure Rick Hahn will be happy to take something off Dombrowski's hands for Miguel Gonzalez.
   7. Textbook Editor Posted: July 28, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5501549)
At this point, I just assume every FA pitcher signed to a long-term deal will be out for 1 full year for TJ surgery/recovery. To me the only shoe left to drop is whether or not he'll be missing all of 2018 or half of 2018 and half of 2019.
   8. Darren Posted: July 28, 2017 at 01:35 PM (#5501579)
I'm beginning to think this wasn't a great contract.
   9. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: July 28, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5501611)
Is that the official diagnosis? The doctor comes in with a grave look on his face and says, "David, I'm afraid you've got woes again." "But doc, you said I got rid of the woes!" "I'm sorry, David. According to these tests, you have recurring woes. It's quite common among pitchers, unfortunately."

"The woes"--heh. Perhaps the woes are closely related to this condition. LYRICS NSFW
   10. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 28, 2017 at 02:22 PM (#5501616)
Well, if they don't have enough to get Darvish or Gray, I'm sure Rick Hahn will be happy to take something off Dombrowski's hands for Miguel Gonzalez.

And my sources tell me that Ubaldo Jimenez might be available for 5 truckloads of Fenway Franks. Think Big and Think Bold, Hubbites!
   11. ??'s Biggest Fan! Posted: July 28, 2017 at 02:34 PM (#5501629)
<trolling>Benintendi and Groome for Sonny Gray! </trolling>
   12. ptodd Posted: July 28, 2017 at 02:46 PM (#5501635)
Yuck
   13. Textbook Editor Posted: July 28, 2017 at 02:57 PM (#5501642)
I'm beginning to think this wasn't a great contract.


FWIW, I don't think we're anywhere near "disaster contract" status--at least not yet. Sure, the media has its knickers all in a twist because Price yelled some stuff at Eck, but honestly I don't care about that stuff. And while, yes, the grand scope of his playoff performance is... not great, he's had 1 playoff start in a Red Sox uniform; I'm not going to bury him after 1 start.

Sure, this could be the start of a Barry Zito-esque contract endgame, and we'll all look back and point to this missed start as the turning point. But it's more likely that he's just mediocre/league average/a "disappointment" than it is he's a true disaster of Sandovalian proportions.

I suppose the real downside to the arm problems this season is that there's almost 0% chance he now opts out after 2018 (which, I confess, I was sort of hoping for--let some other schmo pay for the decline years and save us from it)... No one's gonna give him 4/$124 after 2018 if he continues to have arm problems/is hurt for most of 2018.

The Red Sox can absorb paying Price for league average production in 2019-2022, though my guess is the Boston media will lose it's collective minds over that.
   14. Captain Supporter Posted: July 28, 2017 at 03:07 PM (#5501649)
The Red Sox media is extraordinarily defensive when someone attacks them because their biggest fear is that people fully realize what a bunch of no talent lowlifes they truly are.

And if you think what I just wrote is hyperbole, try this gem: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/2017/07/borges_let_the_boos_rain_down_on_phony_david_price_tonight?utm_campaign=bostonherald_trending_stories&utm_source=bostonherald&utm_medium=trending_stories

I accept your apology in advance.
   15. Darren Posted: July 28, 2017 at 04:01 PM (#5501697)
I suppose the real downside to the arm problems this season is that there's almost 0% chance he now opts out after 2018 (which, I confess, I was sort of hoping for--let some other schmo pay for the decline years and save us from it)


Two trips to the DL this year, even if he comes back healthy and productive 1+ year, I don't know. Would that be enough for teams to want to give him something close to 4/$124? It's looking like teams getting gunshy about older players.

Even aside from the opt out, it's looking like a bad contract. You expect to get the most production out of these contracts in the early years.
   16. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 28, 2017 at 04:18 PM (#5501711)
. . . he's had 1 playoff start in a Red Sox uniform; I'm not going to bury him after 1 start.

So, you're saying he better pitch well in his next playoff start?
   17. Khrushin it bro Posted: July 28, 2017 at 04:20 PM (#5501712)
There are real A's fans who think Gray can get Benintendi.



Lol
   18. Walt Davis Posted: July 28, 2017 at 11:26 PM (#5502064)
5 years of Benintendi for 2.5 years of Gray is well within the reasonable range. Sure Benintendi's only 22 but so far he's also only an average LF who's not showing any power yet (and it's not a matter of "his doubles will become HRs" because he doesn't have a lot of doubles). Before the season, ZiPS projected him to a 109 OPS+ and dead-average 2.2 WAR ... he's at 99 and on pace for about 1.7 WAR.

They gave his top comp as John Kruk which is a tough one to use as Kruk was just entering AA when he was 22 and the Padres took it kinda ridiculously slow with him keeping him in AA for a full year then AAA for 2 full years despite hitting well all three years. So Benintendi is scheduled for FA after age 27 while Kruk had just 2.5 seasons of ML play by 27 (mostly platooned I'd guess). The "young" Kruk was about a 3-WAR player, figure he'd have been worse than that from 22-24 ... call it about 12.5 WAR from Benintendi over the next 5 years.

Sure, it's a little much to pay for Gray but if the Sox had a ready replacement I'd be much more tempted. Gray has his own issues and 2015 is looking more flukey every day, making him more likely a 3-WAR pitcher so not enough of an upgrade unless you've got an extra 2-WAR OF lying around to replace Benintendi. But if they had a chance to trade Benintendi for Quintana, they should have taken it.

Anyway, while obviously Benintendi still has plenty of time to become a very good player, a good bit of the star shine is off of him now. A reluctance to trade Benintendi reminds me of a couple years back when many Sox fans here riled at the thought of a Swihart-Hamels swap. I think that was during the 2014-15 offseason but maybe it was the 2015 trading deadline (or both). Anyway, 2014-16, Hamels has put up 10.6 WAR or 7.9 WAR since the 2015 deadline and is signed through 2018 plus an option. He's also been pretty well paid for that but the Phils threw in some cash to the Rangers. (From the Phils side, Alfaro continues to disappoint but Jared Eickhoff has produced 6 WAR himself and has 4 years control left so they're plenty content.)

Which isn't to say that the Sox should have made the deal for Hamels -- would depend a lot on who else they would have had to put in. Maybe they should have traded Swihart for Eickhoff. :-)
   19. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 29, 2017 at 02:06 AM (#5502093)
5 years of Benintendi for 2.5 years of Gray is well within the reasonable range.
As with the Yankee-Gray discussion thread, the home team fans value their own prospects enormously while minimizing just how good Gray has been for a good while now.
   20. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 29, 2017 at 06:52 AM (#5502100)
Can we calm the fuck down?

The Red Sox lead the AL in ERA, have a 124 ERA+ (I am calling BS on Progressive Field having a higher PF than Fenway btw), with Price already missing about have of the season to date. And they have an anemic lineup. They do not need to trade from the latter to fix the former. They do not need to blow a giant hole in their batting order just because Price is going back to missing a few starts.

And Benintendi was the #1 prospect in baseball about a year ago. Trading him a half season mildly below expectations, for a very good pitcher, with his own injury concerns, who is about to get expensive, would be utter madness. Pretending that a 22 year old, who is already an average ML player, is all he will ever be is ridiculous.
   21. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: July 29, 2017 at 08:10 AM (#5502112)
Thank you for that. Everybody I talk to makes it sound like theyve lost+20 in a row yeah they're not playing well but it's not like it's a disaster there half a game out for crying out loud. Relative to last year at this time they're better off.
   22. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: July 29, 2017 at 08:29 AM (#5502117)
Can we calm the #### down?

The Red Sox lead the AL in ERA, have a 124 ERA+ (I am calling BS on Progressive Field having a higher PF than Fenway btw), with Price already missing about have of the season to date. And they have an anemic lineup. They do not need to trade from the latter to fix the former. They do not need to blow a giant hole in their batting order just because Price is going back to missing a few starts.

And Benintendi was the #1 prospect in baseball about a year ago. Trading him a half season mildly below expectations, for a very good pitcher, with his own injury concerns, who is about to get expensive, would be utter madness. Pretending that a 22 year old, who is already an average ML player, is all he will ever be is ridiculous.


As a somewhat objective Yankees fan, I agree with you, just as I'd agree that trading Torres and / or Frazier for Gray would be brain dead stupid. The main problem with the Red Sox right now (not counting Price's injury) is that their "core four" young stars are underperforming compared to last year,** along with the loss of Big Papi, but I wouldn't put that down to anything more than a normal stage of player development. They may or may not win the AL East this year, but selling off one of their best young players for an injury prone starter is much more likely to backfire in the long run that it would be to get them another set of rings in October.

** As reflected in their team OPS+ of 92
   23. Captain Supporter Posted: July 29, 2017 at 08:53 AM (#5502123)
5 years of Benintendi for 2.5 years of Gray is well within the reasonable range.


If I was a Red Sox fan and they made this trade, I'd be apoplectic. All that WAR stuff does not take Gray's injury history into account. But a GM has to take minor things like that into his evaluation. You don't trade young potential stars for players with a history of arm problems. You also have to take into account the fact that Benintendi is a young, cost controlled player. In today's game, those type of players are the key to building a team.

Frazier's big three run 455 foot home run last night is another indication of why the Yankees need to stay with the plan and let Gray go unless they can get him for lesser players.
   24. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 29, 2017 at 09:14 AM (#5502127)
   25. villageidiom Posted: July 29, 2017 at 11:26 AM (#5502165)
I accept your apology in advance.


You should be the one to apologize, for linking to Borges.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 29, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5502170)
As with the Yankee-Gray discussion thread, the home team fans value their own prospects enormously while minimizing just how good Gray has been for a good while now.

Gray stunk and was hurt last year. He has not been "good ... for a good while".

He was very good for 2 seasons, then hurt and awful, and now good for 97 IP again. There's a real reason why fans are skeptical of Gray.
   27. Captain Supporter Posted: July 29, 2017 at 12:14 PM (#5502185)
You should be the one to apologize, for linking to Borges.


I see your point. I love reading the Boston media; it makes me feel that much better about living in New York.
   28. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 29, 2017 at 01:47 PM (#5502234)
He was very good for 2 seasons, then hurt and awful, and now good for 97 IP again. There's a real reason why fans are skeptical of Gray.
He's just 27. He's pitched ~700 big league innings and been really good for ~600 of them. The ~100 IP where he wasn't good was due to injury, so while concerns about his health are legitimate, the knocks on his actual performance are not.
   29. LA Podcasting Hombre of Anaheim Posted: July 29, 2017 at 01:50 PM (#5502235)
I see your point. I love reading the Boston media; it makes me feel that much better about living in New York.
It's amazing to me how NY baseball media can be so terrible and still be so much better than Boston's.
   30. APNY Posted: July 29, 2017 at 01:56 PM (#5502236)
It's amazing to me how NY baseball media can be so terrible and still be so much better than Boston's.

IDK, the Post is letting Larry Brooks write baseball stuff now.
   31. Darren Posted: July 29, 2017 at 02:53 PM (#5502263)
Is that the official diagnosis? The doctor comes in with a grave look on his face and says, "David, I'm afraid you've got woes again." "But doc, you said I got rid of the woes!" "I'm sorry, David. According to these tests, you have recurring woes. It's quite common among pitchers, unfortunately."


This is so funny--I really really enjoyed it! Kudos to you!

It reminds me of the Brian Regan bit about fantasy football where he says he's said because one of his players is out because he's suffering from "knee."
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 29, 2017 at 02:59 PM (#5502266)
Heh. Thanks - there are just certain words that no one but headline writers ever use, you know? It made some sense back in the days of print, when they were constrained by column width (picas!), but there isn't any reason why the term "woes" should appear in an internet headline. Come to think of it, "plague" as a verb is also in that category.
   33. villageidiom Posted: July 29, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5502331)
I see your point. I love reading the Boston media; it makes me feel that much better about living in New York.
I love when you post in Red Sox threads, for much the same reason as you love reading the Boston media.
   34. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 29, 2017 at 09:30 PM (#5502424)
Price doubles down on his Eckersley comments:
Speaking to the media for the first time since he was placed on the 10-day disabled list Friday, Price admitted that he could have confronted Eckersley "probably a different way" than mocking and cursing at him on the team plane June 29. But rather than saying he was sorry, Price doubled down, claiming that Eckersley doesn't spend as much time in the Red Sox's clubhouse as most other broadcasters do.

Not sure why Eckersley has to spend more time in the locker room before voicing his opinions as a TV analyst, and, of course, the issue isn't that Price disagreed with Eckersley but that he crudely cursed him out in public.
   35. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: July 29, 2017 at 10:53 PM (#5502459)
Not sure why Eckersley has to spend more time in the locker room before voicing his opinions as a TV analyst, and, of course, the issue isn't that Price disagreed with Eckersley but that he crudely cursed him out in public.


I suspect that from Price's viewpoint (and I suspect that most players feel this way) if you are going to say something critical then you get your ass in the clubhouse to defend it. Just spouting off something critical then not being available for someone to refute it is likely viewed as cowardly.

It seems to me that Eck's comment was not that critical but I suspect that Price got it second hand (since he isn't watching the broadcast) and probably heard a version that made it sound like Eck was calling Rodriguez the worst pitcher ever or something.

What gets me about this "story" is that Eck hasn't said a word about it since that I've heard and Price doesn't want to deal with it but every other media member seems to be terribly bothered. Frankly it is a bit of bullying behavior, they know Price isn't popular so they aren't afraid of public backlash for ripping Price. It's interesting to view the way Price, who stood up for a teammate, has been treated by the media compared to Pedroia who threw a teammate under the bus in Baltimore. And of course there is another difference between Price and Pedroia besides relative popularity that has some history in Boston but for now I'll give the benefit of the doubt that that bit of ugliness isn't the cause.
   36. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 29, 2017 at 11:08 PM (#5502466)
Well, Price is wrong, and the idea that the media is "bullying" him for being an ####### is ridiculous. And the Boston media are largely ########, but that still doesn't mean they're always wrong.

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