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Friday, July 19, 2019

Deadspin: Baseball Writer Jonah Keri Arrested, Charged With Assault On His Wife

Baseball writer Jonah Keri, who works for The Athletic, Sportsnet, and DraftKings, was arrested Thursday and charged after an alleged assault on his wife, as reported today by CTV Montreal.

Keri faces three counts of assault as well as one count of uttering death threats. He appeared in court today and was granted bail but was told to stay 250 meters from his wife, not have any weapons, and to remove his possessions from their house within 10 days.

The three counts appear to be for separate incidents in July 2018, May 2019, and July 2019, according to the report. The couple married in July 2018…

Keri’s lawyer Louis Morena also provided a statement:

“Death threats are sometimes said in a moment of anger especially when there’s an emotional situation of divorce and you’re seeing your family go down the drain,”

Jesus ####### Christ!

The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 19, 2019 at 03:01 PM | 271 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: holy &^%, jonah keri, the athletic

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   201. PreservedFish Posted: July 23, 2019 at 07:34 PM (#5864343)
flip
   202. base ball chick Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:11 PM (#5864359)
snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 23, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5864316)
snapper

you don't have kidz so i'll tell you that

But I have seen kids negatively impacted by divorce, my two nephews. No parent is better than a selfish, uninterested parent. The less my nephews see their father, the more well adjusted they are. The same would probably be true of my sister, to tell the truth


- of COURSE some kidz are negatively impacted by divorce. you think they would be any less negatively impacted by hostile warring uncaring parents staying "together"?

i don't know how old your nephews are, but the fact that they have no father is most definitely going to have an impact on them too. seems obvious that your sister and her ex couldn't manage to be adult about this and put the kidz best interest first. they WILL regret this. they boys will start to wonder why their father didn't love them and will hear all kinds of bad things about him from your sister. this is a bad thing. i don't care what they do on tv but you can't really repair something like that even if you do manage to stop being a butthole


JAHV Posted: July 23, 2019 at 06:53 PM (#5864330)

My point of view is informed significantly by my feeling (and my wife's) that sexual intimacy exclusively each other is a vital part of our married relationship. It brings us closer together and is part of the unity I mentioned above. I believe very strongly that sex is a wonderful thing that loses its joy when reduced to a physical thrill or even a temporary emotional thrill with a non long-term partner or spouse. Yeah, my wife and I are pretty old-fashioned in that view, but we feel it's strengthened our marriage


- yeh me and Husband have the same belief. intimacy is really what a strong marriage or any monogamous relationship is all about. and it has to go both ways

i remember when the youngest was about 8, i think, Husband and me were at a birthday party for all the 8 year olds and some kid comes up to me and announces that he saw me kissing my boyfriend and i said - i don't have a boyfriend and he said you do too and i saw you. i said - no, that's my Husband. the kid gives me this funny look and sez - but you were kissing him. i said - yeah, i love him. i said - don't your parents kiss? and he said, well, no

kind of sad
   203. Moeball Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:12 PM (#5864361)
Well I'm late to the party, as usual, but I wanted to weigh in on a few things if I haven't managed to kill the thread:
1) bbc is correct, kids can usually tell when something's up with their parents. At least older kids can. I didn't know it when I was a youngster, but my older siblings actually protected me from a lot of crap when I was little, allowing me to have a pretty happy childhood for the most part. For example, when I was 9 or 10 my oldest brother was 16 or 17, he could drive and I thought it was great. He would often take me out to go get a pizza or see a movie, and, naiive lad that I was, I just thought he was the coolest big brother ever! I had no idea at the time that he was really just getting me out of the house because he sensed a storm was brewing between mom and dad and he didn't want me to have to deal with that. A couple years later he moved out, and then I saw the problems for myself, but at least I was older by the time I realized what was going on, so I think that made it easier for me to cope. I think small children in bad situations probably get it the worst - they don't understand why mommy and daddy are yelling at each other and it's scary. I'm glad I was spared that.
2) when I was 13 or so I not only saw what was going on in the dynamics, but I also began to recognize patterns repeating themselves. Guess that's how I became a stats nerd! At any rate, both my parents clearly hated their jobs and would come home each evening in an awful mood and take out their frustrations on each other. The obligatory booze consumption that ensued obviously didn't help matters any. It was pretty clear to me what was going on even though they apparently couldn't see it. A couple of times I even tried to jump in and explain "mom, dad's not actually mad with you, he's ticked off at his boss at work". Well, I was just a stupid kid. What did I know? That usually just ended with me being sent to my room. But recognizing that people do this has helped my marriage through almost 30 years. Sometimes my wife and I will be arguing about something and I'll stop for a moment to think - wait, am I really mad at her or is something else fueling this anger? A lot of times I'll realize I'm just taking frustrations out on her and it's time to back off. Having a cooling off period has calmed us down so we could actually talk many times over the years.
   204. Moeball Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:15 PM (#5864362)
I am sorry to hear this about Jonah. I've read many articles of his over the years and liked his insights. Maybe his clear headed thinking only applies to baseball?
   205. base ball chick Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:23 PM (#5864366)
moe

i guess clear intelligent thinking about baseball and finance is not related to understanding the simple fact that males should not hit females

glad you were able to learn from your parents mistakes
   206. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 23, 2019 at 09:31 PM (#5864370)
He would often take me out to go get a pizza or see a movie, and, naiive lad that I was, I just thought he was the coolest big brother ever! I had no idea at the time that he was really just getting me out of the house because he sensed a storm was brewing between mom and dad and he didn't want me to have to deal with that.
Sounds like he really was the coolest big brother ever.
   207. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 23, 2019 at 10:10 PM (#5864389)
- of COURSE some kidz are negatively impacted by divorce. you think they would be any less negatively impacted by hostile warring uncaring parents staying "together"?

i don't know how old your nephews are, but the fact that they have no father is most definitely going to have an impact on them too. seems obvious that your sister and her ex couldn't manage to be adult about this and put the kidz best interest first. they WILL regret this. they boys will start to wonder why their father didn't love them and will hear all kinds of bad things about him from your sister. this is a bad thing. i don't care what they do on tv but you can't really repair something like that even if you do manage to stop being a butthole


I'm not saying the kids would be better off if they stayed together, I'm saying the kids would be better off if both their shitty parents disappeared, and they could be raised by people that actually care about them, in this case, their grandparents.

They should hear bad things about their father; they already know bad things about their mother. They should know they didn't do anything to cause this, their father is just a lousy person.

If their father were adult enough to co-parent effectively, he'd have been adult enough not to chase numerous women while he had a wife and two kids at home. I don't buy the modern BS that people just "fall out of love", and "the heart wants wants the heart wants". Love is a choice, not a feeling.
   208. base ball chick Posted: July 23, 2019 at 10:33 PM (#5864400)
snapper

- there are a lot of kids who are raised by their relatives and not their parents. unless the parents are bad to the kids, it is not a good thing to deprive kidz of their parents, and screwing other people while married does not make a parent a crappy PARENT, it makes them a crappy spouse. it is not the same thing and i am not sure exactly why you think it is. you can detest your spouse and love your kidz. it happens ALL the time and i know plenty of people who stay in a marriage/relationship with someone they detest because they are not about to give up their kidz or use up all their money paying lawyers to fight it out

people do, in fact, fall out of love. even when there is no having sex with someone else. people change, you know, and sometimes what the person changes into is not something you can love any more. how long are you going to stay with someone who can't keep a job because they can't bring themselves to do what they have to do to keep the job and you can't pay the bills because they think they should be able to spend whatever they want

haven't you ever heard someone tell you - my spouse isn't the same person i married and i hardly know them and i don't like what i DO know

or - say, your spouse/partner decides they want a different kind of job and they are gone most of the time and have friends you don't know or don't like and you are really not in their lives in any real way any more. who are you doing a favor?

some people wanna do what they wanna do and they are not interested in what the spouse/partner wants any more.

relationships DO end whether or not the partners stay in the same house or not. love is NOT a choice. you can't CHOOSE to feel a way about someone you just don't feel that way about, any more than you can feel sexually attracted to someone you are not sexually attracted to
   209. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:28 AM (#5864467)
First off, for those guys (or gals) here who have been victims of an unfaithful partner, I’m sorry. That sucks and you deserved better.

And I get the argument that such behavior is bad to model for your children. But, after it’s happened and you’re divorced, I’m not sure whose interests are served by keeping your kids’ mother or father out of their lives. The kids will likely perceive it as they’re the ones being punished, not your ex. (If there are broader issues of bad parenting, as it sounds like in the case of snapper’s brother-in-law, that’s a different story.)

Look, I know folks whose parents cheated on each other and it gave them complexes that took a long time to get over. But they also grew up to be wonderful, highly successful people whose parents encouraged and nurtured them in every other way possible. Meanwhile, I know that my own parents’ constant fighting gave me my own set of issues to work through, even though they never cheated on each other and are still together today. But they managed to get a few things right along the way, too, and I think my brother and I ultimately turned out ok.
   210. Fancy Crazy Town Banana Pants Handle Posted: July 24, 2019 at 04:04 AM (#5864478)
i have a very hard time dealing with people who want me to just somehow know what they think/feel and get upset if i don't. there isn't a need to be RUDE, but just, like out with it without being aggressive. makes communication SO much easier

I would be eternally grateful, if you could pass that on to every one of my ex-gfs.
   211. Lassus Posted: July 24, 2019 at 07:11 AM (#5864482)
If you meet one bad ex vs. meeting bad exes all day? ;-)
   212. TomH Posted: July 24, 2019 at 07:52 AM (#5864484)
re: affect on kids of bad parents vs split-up parents:

It seems one large piece has been unaddressed. Of course a bad parent/bad spouse has huge negative impacts on kids. Of course divorced families, whether one or both re-marry or not, has huge negative impacts on kids. I am sure* {from some studies and some personal contacts} in many cases that the ugliness of of bad parent/spouse is "worse". BUT. There is a big difference between "I'm divorcing you" and "I need to get me and the kids away from you at the moment". I know* {ditto previous comment} that people who get ugly for a time can be put back together. I know broken people and marriages can be put back together. Separation while pursuing reconciliation should be primary goal in >90% of cases. Study after study shows kids do better with intact families. Get friends, get troubled partner's friends, get counsel, get help, and wait it out for a while. Kids can be protected without the finality of a divorce. Yes, sometimes the bad parent/spouse will stay bad. But hope is worth a lot of trying. A large part of our western society's problems are not bad schools or racism or health care or a zillion other things that we throw billions of dollars at. A large part is family breakup. This has been shown by people way smarter than me. Get away if you need to (spousal or child abuse FOR SURE!), get protected, but don't give up hope.
   213. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:27 AM (#5864511)
snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 23, 2019 at 10:10 PM (#5864389)


I'm not saying the kids would be better off if they stayed together, I'm saying the kids would be better off if both their shitty parents disappeared, and they could be raised by people that actually care about them, in this case, their grandparents.

They should hear bad things about their father; they already know bad things about their mother. They should know they didn't do anything to cause this, their father is just a lousy person


- sigh

children do NOT have an adult mind and they simply can NOT think like an adult. unless the parent is abusing the CHILD, or their spouse in front of the child, it is a BAD idea to remove that parent from the child's life to give them the supposedly "perfect" parent. and adultery does NOT count as abuse of a CHILD, sorry.

when you tell children bad things about their parent, as you would tell another ADULT bad things about another adult, children HEAR THIS DIFFERENTLY. they always think

1 - they did something wrong
2 - can't understand why their mommy or daddy doesn't want them and/or love them

and this problem is NOT solved by being around supposedly "better" parents" unless the kid themself rejects the parent(s). kidz will bitterly resent deliberately being kept from parents. and they are angrier when fed lies/hostile statements about parents by another.

we took in foster kids for a long time. we adopted 2 kids.

your nephews ALEADY KNOW bad things about their mother from being with her. they love her anyway, unless they are specifically asking to not be with her. there is no such thing as a perfect parent, and from what i've seen, grandparent(s) are often worse
   214. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5864520)
children do NOT have an adult mind and they simply can NOT think like an adult. unless the parent is abusing the CHILD, or their spouse in front of the child, it is a BAD idea to remove that parent from the child's life to give them the supposedly "perfect" parent. and adultery does NOT count as abuse of a CHILD, sorry.

when you tell children bad things about their parent, as you would tell another ADULT bad things about another adult, children HEAR THIS DIFFERENTLY. they always think

1 - they did something wrong
2 - can't understand why their mommy or daddy doesn't want them and/or love them

and this problem is NOT solved by being around supposedly "better" parents" unless the kid themself rejects the parent(s). kidz will bitterly resent deliberately being kept from parents. and they are angrier when fed lies/hostile statements about parents by another.


My nephews explicitly ask their mother 1) not to drink at parties, because they know it leads to fights 2) not to go out with her boyfriend, and stay home with them instead, 3) to get off social media and spend time with them. They are very aware that she is not a good parent. Kids are smart. Lying to them about it does no good.

Any parent prioritizing their love life over their family and children, whether it's adultery or not, is mistreatment to me. Kids see that the family doesn't come first to Mom and Dad, getting laid does.
   215. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5864524)
omH Posted: July 24, 2019 at 07:52 AM (#5864484)

re: affect on kids of bad parents vs split-up parents:

It seems one large piece has been unaddressed. Of course a bad parent/bad spouse has huge negative impacts on kids. Of course divorced families, whether one or both re-marry or not, has huge negative impacts on kids. I am sure* {from some studies and some personal contacts} in many cases that the ugliness of of bad parent/spouse is "worse". BUT. There is a big difference between "I'm divorcing you" and "I need to get me and the kids away from you at the moment". I know* {ditto previous comment} that people who get ugly for a time can be put back together. I know broken people and marriages can be put back together. Separation while pursuing reconciliation should be primary goal in >90% of cases. Study after study shows kids do better with intact families. Get friends, get troubled partner's friends, get counsel, get help, and wait it out for a while. Kids can be protected without the finality of a divorce. Yes, sometimes the bad parent/spouse will stay bad. But hope is worth a lot of trying. A large part of our western society's problems are not bad schools or racism or health care or a zillion other things that we throw billions of dollars at. A large part is family breakup. This has been shown by people way smarter than me. Get away if you need to (spousal or child abuse FOR SURE!), get protected, but don't give up hope


- it is true that sometimes, after counseling or arbitration, couples can agree to be civil especially in front of the kids. as for mending an actual marriage, not just a living civilly together arrangement, what broke them apart HAS to be mendable

from what i've seen, very few people get counseling when things START to go bad and often they decide to do it when one partner either says they are leaving or says they want a divorce, and most of the time, it really IS too late

all the studies about the betterness of intact families - are they including kidz whose parents do NOT want to be together and fight/argue/complain about the other to the kidz? because i really doubt it

- and yes, BITGOD, couples HAD to stay together unless the father deserted his family, regardless of what their feelings were. and lot of time, the man just stayed away working all the time so as to not have to be at home.

too many people get married with all this Perfect Soulmate stuff and don't ever discuss anything that is actually incredibly important or learn how to talk to work things out and then when poopoo hits fan, it's bad news because there is too much anger that the partner isn't Perfect no mo
   216. JL72 Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5864527)
They should hear bad things about their father; they already know bad things about their mother. They should know they didn't do anything to cause this, their father is just a lousy person.


That ignores that a lot of kids internalize these statements because they are half their father, half their mother. Calling their father a lousy person can be like calling the child a lousy person.
   217. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:20 AM (#5864547)
snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5864520)
children do NOT have an adult mind and they simply can NOT think like an adult. unless the parent is abusing the CHILD, or their spouse in front of the child, it is a BAD idea to remove that parent from the child's life to give them the supposedly "perfect" parent. and adultery does NOT count as abuse of a CHILD, sorry.

when you tell children bad things about their parent, as you would tell another ADULT bad things about another adult, children HEAR THIS DIFFERENTLY. they always think

1 - they did something wrong
2 - can't understand why their mommy or daddy doesn't want them and/or love them

and this problem is NOT solved by being around supposedly "better" parents" unless the kid themself rejects the parent(s). kidz will bitterly resent deliberately being kept from parents. and they are angrier when fed lies/hostile statements about parents by another.


My nephews explicitly ask their mother 1) not to drink at parties, because they know it leads to fights 2) not to go out with her boyfriend, and stay home with them instead, 3) to get off social media and spend time with them. They are very aware that she is not a good parent. Kids are smart. Lying to them about it does no good.

Any parent prioritizing their love life over their family and children, whether it's adultery or not, is mistreatment to me. Kids see that the family doesn't come first to Mom and Dad, getting laid does


- your nephews are learning for THEMSELF that she put them second to her interests. they will either think that is the right way to treat people or they will decide that this is NOT what they want their life to be (see moeball's comment). they will see for THEMSELF who their mother really is. she is not being kept away like their father. they need to experience what kind of father he actually IS, unless he doesn't want to see them. they need to know if he was invited and didn't show. they need to text him and see if he responds.

and yeah, some parents are awful. some parents don't like their kids. some parents resent their kids. some parent find out after they already have kids that babies grow into kids and kids take a lot of time energy and money and that is how things are.
   218. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:22 AM (#5864548)
L72 Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:47 AM (#5864527)

They should hear bad things about their father; they already know bad things about their mother. They should know they didn't do anything to cause this, their father is just a lousy person.


That ignores that a lot of kids internalize these statements because they are half their father, half their mother. Calling their father a lousy person can be like calling the child a lousy person.


zackly

i mean, even adults do this

people talk about getting DNA tests and/or finding "real" parents to supposedly "find out who they are"
   219. PreservedFish Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:33 AM (#5864553)
I think it's fair to say that snapper's nephews are in a shitty situation with no right answer. They may prove resilient and learn the right lessons. They may (unconsciously) use the distracted, distant mom as a model in their own future relationships. Sadly I think the latter is more likely.

Knowing what I know from here about the parents, they sound crappy but don't necessarily rise to "call CPS" levels of neglect. if I were the grandparents, I wouldn't try to wrest them from their mom/parents, which could easily just increase their trauma, but I'd also recognize that the kids need a lot of help and need solid role models. If possible, I'd offer to take them for the entire summer, take them for vacations, babysit frequently, and so on...
   220. TomH Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5864554)
first, I uber-commend those who foster and adopt. Bless you big time. My efforts at counseling and listening and donating to these kind of causes are feeble in comparison.
second, it took me a full minute to decode BITGOD :)
third, totally agree on the Perfect Soulmate stuff. What we need is more per-marital counseling and upping levels of commitment, and most of all better models from adults as to what good marriage looks like. Hollywood sure don't help that all.
fourth, re: the studies general conclusions vs isolating the uber-bad homes that stay together - I don't know, research needed. But if it true in general (pretending with #s for example purposes only, let's say it is shown to be 70% better for kids long-term in general to patch up vs 30% to split), it will be often true in specifics - (more pretend ##s:) if half of the above were really-bad-family situations, it might show 90/10 advantage to patch up and 50/50 to split.

I don't wish to encourage hanging with a horrific situation. I just wish to encourage that it can always SEEM worse at the worst time, and thousands of couples are documented as saying "my divorce was a lousy idea, I wish I could take it back". Have patience while you get safe and get help.
   221. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:55 AM (#5864567)
Congrats blastin! Best of luck Pat!

Any parent prioritizing their love life over their family and children, whether it's adultery or not, is mistreatment to me. Kids see that the family doesn't come first to Mom and Dad, getting laid does.

So, after my ex and split up, I didn't try to date for over a year. Not because I didn't feel emotionally ready to do so, but because I felt I couldn't do that and have the time I needed to be the kind of parent my kids need (and worker that my employer would like). That said, my kids don't need a martyr, they need a committed and informed parent who advocates for them and models good behavior - and modeling good behavior means, in part, living a full life.

children do NOT have an adult mind

Can't highlight this enough. They are still processing the world and learning how to process the world. I'm frequently surprised at the insights mine have and the things they are totally blind to.

Love is a choice, not a feeling.

It's both.

they will see for THEMSELF who their mother really is.

Or they won't! (They likely will.)
Either way, they're entitled to build their narrative and worldview here.
   222. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:06 PM (#5864571)
TomH Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5864554)

first, I uber-commend those who foster and adopt. Bless you big time. My efforts at counseling and listening and donating to these kind of causes are feeble in comparison.


- thank you
but i look at it like we got to have more kidz without having to be pregnant again
- the only difficult thing about foster is that sometimes you really REALLY fall in love with that kid and you don't want to give them back, especially because you got a real good idea of what they are going back to and it is worse when they cling to you and cry.
- we stopped it because our kidz were often really upset when the kidz had to go back too. and it is hard to explain to 7 and 8 year olds why we couldn't keep the kid...

second, it took me a full minute to decode BITGOD :)


- sorry. i made up that acronym abot 12 years ago, and i forget that a whole lot of people don't know it

third, totally agree on the Perfect Soulmate stuff. What we need is more per-marital counseling and upping levels of commitment, and most of all better models from adults as to what good marriage looks like. Hollywood sure don't help that all.
fourth, re: the studies general conclusions vs isolating the uber-bad homes that stay together - I don't know, research needed. But if it true in general (pretending with #s for example purposes only, let's say it is shown to be 70% better for kids long-term in general to patch up vs 30% to split), it will be often true in specifics - (more pretend ##s:) if half of the above were really-bad-family situations, it might show 90/10 advantage to patch up and 50/50 to split.


- premarital counseling is really a great idea. especially asking how you plan to work things out when things hit a rough patch

I don't wish to encourage hanging with a horrific situation. I just wish to encourage that it can always SEEM worse at the worst time, and thousands of couples are documented as saying "my divorce was a lousy idea, I wish I could take it back".


- if they both feel that way, they can remarry

but they had better BOTH have seriously done some SERIOUS work on how to deal with the actual reasons they split up. not just remember all the good times and forget the bad
   223. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5864577)
Reading all these posts reminds me why I know it was hard at the time but why my dad leaving was the best thing. He felt suffocated, my mom only liked having sex with him so any time anyone was actually awake things were not great Bob. I am taking everyone who was around at their word because I hardly remember my dad living with us at the same time. But now all is fine except Mom is hurt that I ended up moving out near Dad because he's right, the midwest kind of sucks except to visit.
   224. Traderdave Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5864581)
This has been a most interesting thread. Thank all for sharing.

I was adopted at birth and so I did the spit-in-a-jar DNA thing. It took some time to reconstruct the history but I do now know my ancestry and birth parents. What seems like a clean outcome, though, sparked a couple of years of emotional turmoil, though ultimately it makes me feel VERY lucky to have been adopted. My life would have been quite bleak if I hadn't been.

While I am, on balance, glad to know the truth of my history, there have been moments when I regretted it, it was that much of a storm. Take Lisa's advice to heart, be ready for some serious drama if you do it.

   225. Master of the Horse Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5864584)
224--Glad you managed. That is not the norm based on what I have read in a lot of articles. People just get overfuckingwhelmed
   226. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5864590)
While I am, on balance, glad to know the truth of my history, there have been moments when I regretted it, it was that much of a storm. Take Lisa's advice to heart, be ready for some serious drama if you do it.


But didn't you know you were adopted before taking the test? In that case, you wouldn't be learning that your father or parents weren't your biological ones, as happens when some of these people take the test. I think that's what others are cautioning against.
   227. Traderdave Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:56 PM (#5864598)
I have always known I was adopted and yet it was still an emotional maelstrom to learn the identities of living breathing kin out there. Though yes, obviously, it was a blip vs. learning about adoption from that test.
   228. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2019 at 12:59 PM (#5864602)

I have always known I was adopted and yet it was still an emotional maelstrom to learn the identities of living breathing kin out there. Though yes, obviously, it was a blip vs. learning about adoption from that test.


I didn't mean to suggest that there weren't other concerns. Just that the potential big surprise wasn't a part of the equation.

   229. Blastin Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:04 PM (#5864603)
Thanks folks.

I agree, despite some mens' rights nonsense earlier, this has been an interesting thread. Banishing OTP does seem to have removed some of the dumbest elements.
   230. Traderdave Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:10 PM (#5864606)
Banishing OTP does seem to have removed some of the dumbest elements.


Hey, leave me out of this!

   231. JJ1986 Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:22 PM (#5864614)
My parents had an unfriendly divorce when I was 13. They didn't go to court and had a 50/50 custody arrangement, but it was nasty enough that they don't speak at all 20 years later. I think my brother and I were much better off that that happened. Before that, they had planned to stay together "for the kids," but we knew they were fighting all the time and not happy even though they tried to hide it and it was a very stressful house to live in for a few years.
   232. PreservedFish Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5864615)
I read an amusing article in the Times recently about the great frequency with which white nationalists learn from their DNA tests that they are not really so pure. The reactions range: many blame the shadowy Jewish DNA-testing overlords; some assert that blood coded as "West African" or "Middle Eastern" can only be the result of some Viking incursion to the area; some lean a little too heavily on legitimate critiques of the process, which apparently does have many flaws; others accept the news, and shift their definitions of whiteness to focus less on genetics and more on attitude.
   233. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5864622)
our youngest knows who his female DNA donor is and he wants nothing to do with her ever. he got good reasons. he sez he doesn't want to know who his male DNA donor is or find out if he has half siblings. i told him he doesn't have to. i also told him he should wait until he's 25 and got an adult brain and has prepared to deal with anything bad he finds out. and that a person is NOT his DNA. because you can take what your given and do something good with it. because i don't want him finding out his male DNA donor was a scumbag (most likely) and get all depressed about it and worry that that is who he is gonna be
   234. pikepredator Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:42 PM (#5864625)
When I finally told my kids we were getting divorced, my oldest at the time who was 18, said, "what the hell took so long, it's been pretty miserable here for awhile"


my son was the one who was like "dad, you've gotta get out of this". Eventually, he moved in with me full-time.
   235. Rally Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5864635)
i made up that acronym abot 12 years ago, and i forget that a whole lot of people don't know it


Back in the good old days? I think that's it from the context it's used in.

Otherwise my guess would be someone who was an early adopter of bitcoin, got out at the right time, and now has money to rival the gods.
   236. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5864639)
PreservedFish Posted: July 24, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5864615)

I read an amusing article in the Times recently about the great frequency with which white nationalists learn from their DNA tests that they are not really so pure. The reactions range: many blame the shadowy Jewish DNA-testing overlords; some assert that blood coded as "West African" or "Middle Eastern" can only be the result of some Viking incursion to the area; some lean a little too heavily on legitimate critiques of the process, which apparently does have many flaws; others accept the news, and shift their definitions of whiteness to focus
less on genetics and more on attitude

- i always think it is hilarious when a person who is a nazi finds out about their jewish ancestry, or a White Power person finds out they ain't so White after all

- my Husband worked with this White girl who had a baby with her White BF and on the newborn blood test the baby came back with the trait and so the BF accused her of being with some other guy so she made him get tested for the trait and guess what - heh

he FREAKED out finding out he had some ancestor who was the n-word and about went nuts, accusing his mama of being a ho and it went from there. so she ended up being a single parent while he did i don't know what to get his shttt together don't know if he ever did

poor lil baby got a daddy who is all crazy. hope that grrl found a better guy
   237. Blastin Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5864658)
I am mildly curious about those tests because as a slave descendant, I don't know anything about my bloodline before 1840 or so. And I don't feel like trying to go through historical records. Ancestry.com and family info got me back that far.

But if I found out I was, you know, Senegalese, what would I do, go over there and be like MY COUSINS!!!

I do know where the plantation was that we were held. It's in South Carolina, and my last name is even on the street where it used to be because that's why my last name sounds vaguely British. But there's nothing there anymore besides a few trees.
   238. Jay Z Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:52 PM (#5864665)
BBC,

Thank you for your concern.

I have done IC a couple of times, message boards. Did a more interventionist counselling when I was during my separation.

My issues come in waves. I can be okay for a while, then I process something from my situation and get down again. So when I have done IC, it helps, but it doesn't necessarily mean that more won't crop up. Maybe I need to keep going back, I don't know.

As far as my marriage goes, we did not fight. No marriage counselling, my ex refused to do so. She left me for a guy who she know and who was single at the time we married. He didn't want to have kids and I did. She used me for the big fancy wedding, for the kids, then stuck me with the bill. Now she has everything, doesn't need to work, has money coming from two men. Lucky her. From a Machivellian standpoint, everything she did makes sense if you don't care who you hurt.

I would feel justified in getting an annulment, if it mattered and it didn't make my kids bastards. The ex married me in bad faith.

Currently it is worries over finances and what happens if something goes wrong. I'm in my 50s and close to a decade away to being done with support. So there's not much light at the end of the tunnel. It will be retirement time then.

I prefer LTR to being single or serial hookups. But I can't control the women I am with. My GF obviously has been with other men, knows other men. Plenty of other men can outperform me in some aspect or another. If she wants one of them more, we'll be done. I like doing good things for her, but have no expectation that it'll lead to final happiness. If she's with me in the end, she is; if not, then not.

My parents didn't have a great love affair or anything. But my mom clearly loved my dad and was nice to him. I expected the same. I didn't get it from my ex. We will see what the future brings.
   239. JL72 Posted: July 24, 2019 at 02:54 PM (#5864666)
i also told him he should wait until he's 25 and got an adult brain and has prepared to deal with anything bad he finds out. and that a person is NOT his DNA.


And that what he decides now may not be what he wants to do when he is 25, 30 or older. I have seen too many people make a decision at a young age then feel trapped by it as they get older and gain new experience.

Good luck with your youngest. He is lucky to have you.
   240. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 04:59 PM (#5864710)
jay z

truly there boy i am sorry you got played. and yes you DO really seriously need more counseling because you are still hurting. try finding someone who is good with PTSD. don't give it up.

you can't control ANYONE, let alone women, and you can't judge how someone is gonna be with YOU based n how someone is with someone else.

there is nothing wrong with a LTR. make sure you have the best relationship you can with your kidz and don't badmouth their mother.

if your gf is basically over 18 she has been with other men. don't worry about them. just have the best time you can with her. remember that she is with YOU so just maybe she likes who you are and not what some other man is, she's not your ex so be careful not to tar her with that brush. just because you picked one stinker doesn't make you doomed to repeat history
   241. Zach Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:03 PM (#5864711)
I read an amusing article in the Times recently about the great frequency with which white nationalists learn from their DNA tests that they are not really so pure.

No sympathy for the white nationalists, but those "ancestry analysis" reports aren't much more accurate than the "love tester" machines in your local dive bar. They look for particular genetic markers that are common in some populations, but the markers are present in many populations.

I'm always amused by the commercial that shows the guy who's super into his Irish heritage, then converts to being super into his German heritage at the end (I don't recall the countries, but that's the punchline). It apparently never occurred to this guy that the test could be steering him wrong, and that a simple family tree is much more reliable.
   242. Zach Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:17 PM (#5864716)
- my Husband worked with this White girl who had a baby with her White BF and on the newborn blood test the baby came back with the trait and so the BF accused her of being with some other guy so she made him get tested for the trait and guess what - heh

Again, no sympathy for the racist elements here, but I have ethical problems selling somebody a "scientific" report that has the potential to have huge emotional repercussions when you can't actually stand by the results of the test.
   243. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 06:32 PM (#5864730)

Interesting. I didn’t know that about those genetic tests. I guess anyone who uses them should combine them with other genealogical research to the extent possible. That’s certainly where I would start.
   244. Zach Posted: July 24, 2019 at 07:21 PM (#5864736)
I guess anyone who uses them should combine them with other genealogical research to the extent possible. That’s certainly where I would start.

That's what I find so funny about the ancestry.com commercial. Family trees aren't 100% reliable, but if you can track your ancestors back to Ireland, you're Irish, not German.
   245. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2019 at 08:38 PM (#5864740)
Ireland was - and kind of still is - so rural that contact with other ethnicities (save the stray UKer perhaps) was virtually nonexistent if one's ancestors lived even a mile or so inland. Why would a well-traveled seaman (I see what I did there) bother making what a century ago would have been an arduous trek into the island?

a bit different in the heart of Europe, so there are ..... surprises there sometimes.

my grandparents arrived from Ireland at the start of the 19th century, and my parents were born in NYC in 1918 and 1922. so they were the first who could have ... surprised. but knowing their 49-year love affair ("She Stopped Loving Him Today, They Laid a Wreath Upon Her Door...." to paraphrase George Jones) - I know one can say never say never, but .... never.

for a lark, my 68-year-old brother got the DNA kit this year. came back 99 percent Irish, so we know the tests are at least 1 percent off. :)

but in general, I agree with all of the caution flags waved here. risk vs reward, upside vs downside. and yes, the tests are hardly foolproof. more like polygraphs - kind of really accurate, but take 'em as gospel at your peril. it's complicated.
   246. base ball chick Posted: July 24, 2019 at 09:28 PM (#5864746)
Zach Posted: July 24, 2019 at 05:17 PM (#5864716)

- my Husband worked with this White girl who had a baby with her White BF and on the newborn blood test the baby came back with the trait and so the BF accused her of being with some other guy so she made him get tested for the trait and guess what - heh

Again, no sympathy for the racist elements here, but I have ethical problems selling somebody a "scientific" report that has the potential to have huge emotional repercussions when you can't actually stand by the results of the test


- the sickle test is a 100% thing

Howie

i think you meant END of the 19th century
   247. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:22 PM (#5864763)
I have seen a couple of episodes of Henry Louis Gates’ show “Finding Your Roots” which is really well done. For example, George RR Martin believed his grandfather, who left his grandmother, was Italian. But his DNA test showed that he was 1/4 Jewish and 0% Italian. But they also tracked down other descendents of his grandfather and showed that they were not related to Martin. Their conclusion was that Martin’s grandmother likely had an affair with a Jewish man who was Martin’s “real” grandfather.
   248. PreservedFish Posted: July 24, 2019 at 10:27 PM (#5864766)
Ireland was - and kind of still is - so rural that contact with other ethnicities (save the stray UKer perhaps) was virtually nonexistent if one's ancestors lived even a mile or so inland. Why would a well-traveled seaman (I see what I did there) bother making what a century ago would have been an arduous trek into the island?


Wasn't the whole country raped by Vikings like a billion times?
   249. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:15 PM (#5864776)
i think you meant END of the 19th century

heh, yes
:)
   250. Omineca Greg Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:41 PM (#5864788)
Wasn't the whole country raped by Vikings like a billion times?


A striking result of our admixture analysis is the surprising amount of Norwegian-like ancestry in our Irish clusters. We also detected high levels of Norwegian ancestry in Orcadian and Scottish clusters, and relatively low Norwegian ancestry in English and Welsh clusters. The Norwegian clusters that contribute significant ancestry to any Irish or British clusters predominantly consist of individuals from counties on the north or western coasts of Norway (Fig. 3b). These areas are noted to be regions where Norse Viking activity originated from8. Whilst this surprising Norwegian signal in Ireland is most likely due to Norwegian admixture into Ireland, indeed this would corroborate with accounts of Irish slave trade in the Viking era29, and Y-chromosomal analysis (unpublished). To test this hypothesis we ran an additional regression admixture analysis, this time modelling Norwegian haplotypes as a mixture of Irish, British, or European haplotypes (Supplementary Data 6). We observe significant proportions of Irish, Scottish, and Orcadian ancestry in modern Norway (6.82%, 2.29%, and 2.13%, respectively), particularly western Norway. This could provide evidence for Irish admixture back into Norway, but could also easily be explained by Norwegian haplotypes existing in Ireland, Scotland, and Orkney. Therefore, we are able to provide an upper estimate of ~20% Norwegian ancestry within Ireland, but unable to provide an empirical lower limit.


An in-depth look at Irish DNA at the link.
   251. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2019 at 11:50 PM (#5864790)
yeah, well, my kin weren't the type to get rounded up - or worse, apparently.
:)

plus I'm only thinking back 150 years or so. what happened in the 1500s, stays in the 1500s
   252. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:34 AM (#5864850)
I have to dissent from the pro-divorce near-consensus around here. In my experience, people who claim it's better for the kids are usually just rationalizing what they want. It ought to go without saying that there are exceptions; if one spouse is violent, or is gambling away all the family's money, or is refusing to even try to be civil in front of the kids, then, yes, it may be important to get him/her out of the house. But otherwise, in my experience, "Oh, I'm not happy" is not an argument for splitting up when you have kids at home. Just in practical terms — two households are a lot more expensive than one, and divorce is thus likely to lower the standard of living for the kids. Can kids tell when parents are unhappy? Yeah, sometimes. Can they tell when parents split up? Always. (And it's not as if splitting up means the parents will necessarily be happy anyway.)
   253. Master of the Horse Posted: July 25, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5864858)
But otherwise, in my experience, "Oh, I'm not happy" is not an argument for splitting up when you have kids at home. Was that how you convinced your wife to stay?

//joke. You seem like the poster who could roll with it
   254. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5864868)

Convinced my wife to stay? I've been trying to get rid of her for 20 years.
   255. Master of the Horse Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:35 PM (#5864876)
   256. Lassus Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:50 PM (#5864887)
Can kids tell when parents are unhappy? Yeah, sometimes.

Unhappy enough to be considering divorce? Not buying your assertion.
   257. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 12:54 PM (#5864891)
Mine had no clue, are still kind of confused years later.
   258. Eddo Posted: July 25, 2019 at 01:55 PM (#5864913)
I have to dissent from the pro-divorce near-consensus around here. In my experience, people who claim it's better for the kids are usually just rationalizing what they want. It ought to go without saying that there are exceptions; if one spouse is violent, or is gambling away all the family's money, or is refusing to even try to be civil in front of the kids, then, yes, it may be important to get him/her out of the house. But otherwise, in my experience, "Oh, I'm not happy" is not an argument for splitting up when you have kids at home. Just in practical terms — two households are a lot more expensive than one, and divorce is thus likely to lower the standard of living for the kids. Can kids tell when parents are unhappy? Yeah, sometimes. Can they tell when parents split up? Always. (And it's not as if splitting up means the parents will necessarily be happy anyway.)

A few thoughts here.

My parents were unhappy from at least the time I was ten years old. My younger brother and I would have had to be the least perceptive kids in the world not to realize that, regardless of how much of their fighting occurred behind closed doors. Thing is, we internalized everything, and didn't really tell our parents we understood they were unhappy and knew they were fighting. So you might *think* your kids can't tell, but... most likely, they can.

Of course, as bbc has so accurately pointed out, kids' brains aren't the same. When I was ten or twelve, all I wanted was my parents to not get divorced, or at least that's how I would have verbalized it. Really, I wanted my parents to *be happy*... but that wasn't in the cards.

By the time I was high school aged, I was wishing my parents would just split up. Them being unhappy made so many things less pleasant - family trips, Christmas morning, whatever. By the time I was in college, I would tell people, "They should have divorced years ago." Because my parents stayed together, I had plenty of built up animosity to both; I knew why my mom was mad at my dad all the time, and vice versa. Would I have been sad as a younger child if they had gotten divorced? Yes, very. But I was *already* sad because they were fighting, and wound up having to deal with that emotional history as well.

When I would visit home, I was already having to choose which parent to spend time with, except with all the emotional tension of them being in the same house. At least if they were divorced, I could have visited each one on planned terms.

So basically, what your post is saying is that all that matters is the children's short-term emotional mindset. I strongly disagree.

And even if staying together was always better for the kids than getting divorced, your post is also saying that once you have kids, their emotional state is the only thing that matters. Yes, it's the most important thing, but that doesn't mean my own mental state stops mattering. It's finding the right balance and trade offs.
   259. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:25 PM (#5864933)
now david

people with kidz don't usually get divorced easily if they are "just not happy" - like in the movies

even YOU could find a reason to leave your wife

for example:

you start noticing that she gets these calls and leaves th room her you can't hear and when you ask who was that she sez, oh just the grrls from the office
you start noticing that he shuts her computr lid when you come in the room
she starts telling you she's taking "grrls night out" a couple times a week, sometimes more
you overhear her say - david can't find out about this

you confront her - she keeps telling you - NOTHING

so you secretly follow her to one of her supposed "grrrls night out" thingys and you find out
you
you find out

i know this is horrific!!!!

well

she's meeting with the grrls all right - at Socialist Party Headquarters!!!! and she is head of the Elect Alexandra ocasio cortez for president committee and her slogan is - everybody else's money for everyone else, is GOOD

so, now
whatchu gonna do?

you gonna save your kidz or WHAT?????
   260. TomH Posted: July 25, 2019 at 02:57 PM (#5864952)
funny, bbc.
Is this (to David) like Big Bang Theory when accepting a differing universe expansion model is a "dealbreaker"?
   261. base ball chick Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:20 PM (#5864959)
grinning

i'd have to hear from david what could be worse than his wife spending his money on the socialist party to elect AOC.

poor david be needing some serious, uh, mood stabilizers

- um, don't watch big bang theory
   262. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 25, 2019 at 03:52 PM (#5864967)
um, don't watch big bang theory is perhaps the best advice all thread.
   263. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:07 PM (#5865000)
whatchu gonna do?
Arrange for her to have an "accident." (She doesn't really need brakes on her car.) Kids'll get over that.

EDIT: Especially with the life insurance money.
   264. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5865010)

Yeah, I never meant to indicate that parents should be flippant about the prospect of divorce or its effect on kids (and most parents aren't). My point has always just been that there's a lot of ways to screw up your kids / model bad behavior, and infidelity, while terrible, is just one item on that spectrum, not some special class of parenting crime that warrants complete loss of custody rights.
   265. Hot Wheeling American Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:40 PM (#5865017)
the children's short-term emotional mindset

Hey, leave the libertarian political philosophy out of this.
   266. Eddo Posted: July 25, 2019 at 05:59 PM (#5865026)
Yeah, I never meant to indicate that parents should be flippant about the prospect of divorce or its effect on kids (and most parents aren't). My point has always just been that there's a lot of ways to screw up your kids / model bad behavior, and infidelity, while terrible, is just one item on that spectrum, not some special class of parenting crime that warrants complete loss of custody rights.

This, 100%.
   267. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: July 25, 2019 at 06:54 PM (#5865035)
- i always think it is hilarious when a person who is a nazi finds out about their jewish ancestry, or a White Power person finds out they ain't so White after all


An interesting article on that was written just a couple weeks ago.

How White Nationalists See What They Want to See in DNA Tests
   268. PreservedFish Posted: July 25, 2019 at 07:45 PM (#5865052)
That's the article I referenced that brought it all up. Get with the program, Seasoning Salt.
   269. Greg K Posted: July 25, 2019 at 09:37 PM (#5865090)
Ireland has had its share of English and Scottish interlopers over the centuries as well, especially in Ulster.
   270. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 26, 2019 at 09:52 AM (#5865165)
I'm listening to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast on steroids and baseball and his first guest is Jonah Keri, which made me LOL. He follows that up with George fucking Will!
   271. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 26, 2019 at 01:09 PM (#5865252)
I just listened to that episode. Really underscores how highly people thought of Keri, especially it seems other journalists. I met Keri once and he couldn't have been nicer.
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