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1. GEB4000 Posted: February 20, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4064922)Personally, I'm not sure Posey's hitting will ever recover. I guess we'll find out.
2000s 92
1990s 93
1980s 97
1970s 95
1960s 105
1950s 104
1940s 91
1930s 104
1920s 96
1910s 83
1900s 74
1890s 93
One factor to note immediately is that the longer ago you run this search, the fewer catchers appear by decade: partly because of expansion of leagues and schedules, but partly too I'd imagine because better medicine and equipment allow catchers to accumulate longer careers. (And thus selecting for the better hitters in the earlier decades in this list; perhaps the rest of the playing time is taken up by weaker bats.) In any case, to pick the 1990s as the decade that invented the monster-hitting catcher is odd. They were the decade of Mike Piazza, one extra-memorable guy, but the typical catchers of the decade were Benito Santiago and Sandy Alomar, guys who could make some contact and had odd-HR power, but were not exactly Gabby Hartnett. I don't know when the heyday of the .220-hitting glove man at catcher was, exactly, but it's most evident about 100 or more years ago, when truly nobody cared what catchers hit. After the lively ball, people started to care a lot, for lots of reasons. We think of the 1960s as a new deadball era, but it was more like a deadball/longball era: HR or nothing. Tom Haller, John Romano, Bill Freehan, Earl Battey, John Roseboro, and Elston Howard were all good hitters with fair power. None of them hit .220, and several were outstanding fielders.
Leave, go and watch the NFL.
More of a college football man myself. Can I watch that instead?
The play by the catcher requires violating the rules as written, and encourages collisions that are inconsistent with the way the rest of the sport is played. I see no place for it in the game.
Rk Player BtWins OPS+ BA PA From To1 Charlie Bennett 11.06 118 .256 4310 1878 1893
2 Jack Clements 8.96 117 .287 4721 1884 1900
3 Roger Bresnahan 21.03 126 .279 5374 1897 1915
4 Chief Meyers 7.41 117 .291 3226 1909 1917
5 Wally Schang 17.31 117 .284 6423 1913 1931
6 Mickey Cochrane 24.03 128 .320 6206 1925 1937
7 Gabby Hartnett 22.94 126 .297 7297 1922 1941
8 Bill Dickey 22.88 127 .313 7060 1928 1946
9 Ernie Lombardi 19.54 126 .306 6349 1931 1947
10 Roy Campanella 13.32 123 .276 4816 1948 1957
11 Walker Cooper 7.91 116 .285 5078 1940 1957
12 Yogi Berra 23.28 125 .285 8364 1946 1965
13 Smoky Burgess 10.76 116 .295 5013 1949 1967
14 Joe Torre 31.15 128 .297 8801 1960 1977
15 Thurman Munson 11.62 116 .292 5903 1969 1979
16 Johnny Bench 27.06 126 .267 8669 1967 1983
17 Ted Simmons 21.66 117 .285 9685 1968 1988
18 Gary Carter 16.34 115 .262 9019 1974 1992
19 Carlton Fisk 19.57 117 .269 9853 1969 1993
20 Mike Piazza 39.43 142 .308 7745 1992 2007
21 Jorge Posada 20.05 121 .273 7150 1995 2011
I think blocking the plate with a leg is different than blocking the plate with your whole body. The former is definitely better for the catcher than the latter.
Rk Player BtWins OPS+ BA PA From To1 Malachi Kittridge -25.49 56 .219 4454 1890 1906
2 Jack Warner -12.79 73 .249 3827 1895 1908
3 Bill Bergen -34.69 21 .170 3228 1901 1911
4 Lou Criger -12.34 72 .221 3619 1896 1912
5 Red Dooin -17.47 71 .240 4271 1902 1916
6 Billy Sullivan -19.64 63 .213 3981 1899 1916
7 Bill Killefer -17.23 63 .238 3400 1909 1921
8 Oscar Stanage -16.45 69 .234 3845 1906 1925
9 Luke Sewell -23.64 70 .259 6041 1921 1942
10 Rollie Hemsley -20.10 74 .262 5509 1928 1947
11 Mike Tresh -11.57 71 .249 3637 1938 1949
12 Bob Swift -14.92 61 .231 3136 1940 1953
13 Jim Hegan -19.50 73 .228 5318 1941 1960
14 Buck Martinez -10.77 72 .225 3072 1969 1986
15 Bruce Benedict -11.20 71 .242 3289 1978 1989
16 Kirt Manwaring -13.16 69 .246 3336 1987 1999
17 Joe Girardi -17.18 72 .267 4535 1989 2003
18 John Flaherty -12.75 74 .252 3640 1992 2005
19 Mike Matheny -20.00 64 .239 4287 1994 2006
20 Brad Ausmus -22.04 75 .251 7101 1993 2010
A valid criticism, if he were actually blocking the plate. The problem is that he was conceding the baseline to the runner, so had no reason to brace properly before getting demolished.
Yes, but if they were to ban blocking the plate, then baserunners would no longer crash into the catcher. Because crashing into the catcher would make them automatically out.
Was that taunting? 1rst down and goal from the #9 post.
He wasn't conceding the run however. I guess the base-runner should have conceded the out, and stayed rigidly on the baseline, just like all base runners do at home, 2nd, etc.
If by conceding you mean in the act of receiving the ball and moving his body back into the baseline, then yes. Its not like he was standing near the on deck circle.
He was making a play on the ball in the vicinity of the plate, and thus should have been using proper technique to a.) minimize the chance of injury, and b.) maximize the chance of tagging the runner. Sometimes there is nothing you can do, like with the carlos santana injury. In this case the injury was totally due to his lack of proper technique.
Edit: In fact, if you'll watch the video, Cousin's last step before hitting Posey was on the baseline, and Cousins had every reason to believe that Posey had the ball and was going to tag him out, the bowling over is the right play there for him I think.
Only if Cousins doesn't know how to slide. You're right that his last step was on the baseline, but he launched himself to his left and the spot of collision was nearly a yard off the plate. There's no excuse for that.
Fine, no suspension. And there were a number of people who did call it good hard baseball.
But it's rarity and the league's reaction to it demonstrates why the play at home really runs counter to the way the game is played. Baseball doesn't allow players to intentionally destroy other players anywhere else on the diamond (and has taken considerable steps to reduce middle infielder destruction by outlawing the Hal McRae body roll and other dangerous sliding techniques).
Frankly, I don't know how it's logically consistent that Arod is called out (and Jeter sent back to first base) for trying to slap the ball out of Arroyo's hand while a runner whose only goal is the exact same _ to separate the catcher from the ball, home plate be damned _ is rewarded for his success.
Mike Lowell did run into Cano rather hard going to second and no suspension was issued. Although Lowell really didn't hit Cano with everything he had or launch himself at Cano. Lowell's response to some people crying about it was great "who do you think taught me that?" (it was the Yankees). Too bad Cano made a great play, Lowell should have hit him harder.
Well I guess if you don't consider trying to be safe an excuse, sure. And I guess if by a yard off the plate you mean right on the plate. Look at the video, Cousins is on the plate during the collision. Posey was conceding the plate only in the loosest definition of the term. Could he have slid? Sure. Was Posey so far off the plate that it takes this play from standard baseball practice to a dirty move? I don't think so. And none of this changes the fact that Poesy himself could have both avoided injury and made the play, but did neither.
Edit: If we want to litigate these collisions out of the game for the safety of the players I am all for it. But to act outraged that these sort of collisions aren't standard practice is intellectually dishonest.
If he goes for the hook slide and is tagged out, he may find himself on the next bus to New Orleans, never to experience the bright lights and spare crowds of Sun Life Stadium again. A player like that probably feels compelled to go for the knockout blow, the better way to cement his reputation with his manager and fellow players. And as long as we allow this nonsense to continue, then players of marginal skills (and some with non-marginal skills but a similar attitude) will continue to opt for Jack Tatuming the backstop rather than making a play that's consistent with the activity at the other three bases.
The point of first contact between Cousins and Posey is roughly a yard to the left of Cousins. Posey was not "blocking" the plate; there was plenty of room for Cousins to touch the plate by sliding. It's ridiculous for the rules (or custom) to allow a collision under such circumstances.
That said, I agree with SoSH that the expectations for Cousins were such that he pretty much "had" to run into Posey. That's why a ban is needed (along with an equivalent ban on catchers blocking the plate).
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