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Tuesday, June 16, 2009

Deadspin: Craggs: It Wasn’t So, Joe (Morgan)

He’s gainin’ on you so you better look alive.

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Top of the eighth. Cliff Lee has just given up his first hit of the game to the Cardinals, a double to right. Up in the booth, Joe Morgan decides to tell a story. You know where this is going.

From Sunday’s game, here he is, verbatim:

  “I guess I can tell this story now, one of my great experiences when I was a young player. Don Wilson was pitching a no-hitter against the Atlanta Braves. They had Orlando Cepeda, Rico Carty, Felipe Alou and Hank Aaron, of course. And they got to the ninth inning, he got two outs, no one on base, and Hank Aaron was the hitter. And in my infinite wisdom, I ran in to the mound. I said, “You know, it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world if Hank Aaron walked right here. He said, “Get back to second base.” I proceeded to go back to second base. He threw three fastballs right by Hank Aaron. No-hitter.”

Charming, right? And, alas, very likely an utter crock. This would’ve been June 18, 1967, Joe’s third full season in the bigs. That Braves team did indeed feature Hank Aaron, Felipe Alou and Rico Carty — though not Cepeda, who was in St. Louis that year. And Wilson did indeed throw a no-hitter, striking out Aaron to end the game. None of that’s the problem. The problem, as a tipster points out, is that Joe Morgan wasn’t playing that day. Look at the box score. The Astros’ second baseman was Julio Gotay. Morgan, who was probably hurt, hadn’t played since June 3. He would pinch-hit the next two games, then return to the lineup June 21.

Now, Joe may well have said something to Don Wilson in the dugout, in which case he was merely indulging in a little poetic license last night. But given baseball’s time-honored superstition about talking to pitchers during a no-hitter, not to mention the fact that Joe has told some stretchers before, I’m loath to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Repoz Posted: June 16, 2009 at 04:23 AM | 21 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: announcers, astros, braves, history, media

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   1. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: June 16, 2009 at 04:35 AM (#3220526)
Morgan did play in Wilson's other no-hitter. The last out was made by Tommy Helms, but the other two outs in the ninth were by Bench and Perez. They weren't exactly Hank Aaron, but they were both all-stars by then (early 1969.) Morgan probably made the whole thing up, but it's possible he combined some details between the two games.
   2. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 16, 2009 at 04:55 AM (#3220535)
Morgan probably made the whole thing up, but it's possible he combined some details between the two games.
I think this says a lot more about how all of us tend to remember the details of events in our lives incorrectly, and it's likely that Joe did conflate and confuse in his mind the two Don Wilson no-hitters. It is certainly not the case that Mr. Morgan is unique among older baseball players, retelling a story from their playing days, by getting some of the essential facts wrong. I just don't think that is a question of honesty. It's a rather common flaw in human memory over time.

As I write this, it makes me think a bit about the storytelling of "prehistory." If a ballplayer mixes up various events in his lifetime, from just 30-40 years ago, imagine how screwed up oral histories got which were passed down for many generations before they were written down (and then edited in order to serve the moral that the author hoped to convey).

One example of this is with the Hebrew Bible, much of which (I presume) was conveyed through oral tradition before it was actually scribed. Aside from the pure myths -- the parting of the Red Sea; Noah's Ark; creation of the planet and all life in 6 days; etc -- there are some "historical" tales in there which may be based on real people. Maybe there was a King David. Maybe he had a son King Solomon. Maybe Jeremiah was a bullfrog? Yet what eventually made it into the Bible was probably changed accidentally a hundred times before writers intentionally changed the stories to fit their needs or the needs of their audience. Fewer generations passed between the life of Jesus (if there was such a person) and when the various Greeks wrote the Gospels, but most likely a similar fudging or mistaking of the details took place in the oral telling, and then the writers (and later editors) made whatever changes they saw fit to make the moral tales (or Theistic tales) work for their purposes.
   3. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: June 16, 2009 at 05:02 AM (#3220539)
astrosdaily.com has the game story on the 1967 no-hitter. Wilson says, "When Aaron came up I told myself 'he's either going to hit it and break up the no-hitter or I'm going to get him out'. I wasn't going to walk him." so somebody may have brought up a walk to him. Aaron had walked in the seventh.

My favorite part is this:
He struck out Aaron for the last out of the game.

"He just threw that last one right by me," admitted Aaron, who still is one of the great hitters of all time. Henry added, "It's young guys like this that make me want to retire."


Also, the Braves' battery was Phil Niekro and Bob Uecker.
   4. Crispix Attacks Posted: June 16, 2009 at 05:03 AM (#3220540)
Enough god damn nitpicking! Man! What a mean-spirited waste of time! Seriously!
   5. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: June 16, 2009 at 05:38 AM (#3220559)
And racist, too!
   6. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball Posted: June 16, 2009 at 05:57 AM (#3220561)
I just assume that any anecdote a baseball player tells is wrong in some (or every) way. Finding mistakes is too easy. The sport's gone out of it.


I was watching Bob Gibson and Tim McCarver tonight on Inside Studio 42 with Bob Costas on MLB Network. They told a story that McCarver set in '73 of Gibson, fresh off a divorce, being greeted at home plate by Dave Rader of the Giants with "How's your wife and kids?" Gibson said he glared at Rader and said "I don't have any wife and kids" and proceeded to hit him in the ribs his next time up.

Well, of course, I couldn't resist. Sure enough, on July 6, 1973, Gibson beat the Giants 3-2 at Candlestick and plunked Rader to lead off the bottom of the 8th. Gibson had batted in the top of the inning.

Everybody deserves a break on blurred details on old stories. Morgan, however, has a clear pattern of remembering things that didn't happen. I'm not saying he's a liar, but you better take his anecdotes with a whole block of salt.
   7. baudib Posted: June 16, 2009 at 06:00 AM (#3220563)
Given how superstitious ballplayers are about no-hitters, my guess is he said something to him after the game, like, "Wow, I was thinking that it wouldn't have been the worst thing in the world to walk Aaron there, Don," and Wilson said, "Fuggheddaboudit" or something similar.
   8. Shock Posted: June 16, 2009 at 07:23 AM (#3220576)

"He just threw that last one right by me," admitted Aaron, who still is one of the great hitters of all time. Henry added, "It's young guys like this that make me want to retire."


This is amazing. Aaron would go on to hit, what, 300 more HR?
   9. Repoz Posted: June 16, 2009 at 08:26 AM (#3220583)
I was watching Bob Gibson and Tim McCarver tonight on Inside Studio 42 with Bob Costas on MLB Network.

I watched that. I was amazed at how witty, cool and even-tempered Gibson was...even while a drooling McCarver was blowing him depantsiation kisses.
   10. whoisalhedges Posted: June 16, 2009 at 12:46 PM (#3220619)
I think this says a lot more about how all of us tend to remember the details of events in our lives incorrectly, and it's likely that Joe did conflate and confuse in his mind the two Don Wilson no-hitters. It is certainly not the case that Mr. Morgan is unique among older baseball players, retelling a story from their playing days, by getting some of the essential facts wrong. I just don't think that is a question of honesty. It's a rather common flaw in human memory over time.

This.

I'm the first one to jump on Little Joe when he says something stupid (which is unfortunately often), but I don't see how this is an example. He's retelling a story that happened (with slightly different facts) 42 years ago.
   11. RJ in TO Posted: June 16, 2009 at 01:30 PM (#3220651)
Two things:
1) People don't have perfect memories
2) People are prone to exaggeration

To bag endlessly on Joe Morgan for being human is somewhat wasteful and pointless, especially when he gives so many other chances to bag on him for better reasons.
   12. Bob Dernier Cri Posted: June 16, 2009 at 01:34 PM (#3220655)
Are there counter-examples? You sometimes hear, for instance, that Pete Rose could remember every one of his hits, the count, what field it went to, that kind of thing. Do some ballplayers have exceptional, Rain-Man-like memories? I do know people with memories like that, folks who can recount the plots of TV episodes they saw once 42 years ago.

Now, I am disinclined to strike up a conversation with Pete Rose at a card show just to find out ...
   13. The Essex Snead Posted: June 16, 2009 at 01:48 PM (#3220664)
Yeah, I've got issues w/ JM's general MO, and I can't see this as anything except a half-ass attempt to pick on a beloved blogosphere punching bag (with the no-doubt substantial traffic bump attached). But at least FJM's myopic fish-barrel spirit lives on!
   14. rlc Posted: June 16, 2009 at 02:19 PM (#3220699)
Two things:
1) People don't have perfect memories
2) People are prone to exaggeration

And a third - Joe Morgan is paid to talk about being a ballplayer.

Joe Garagiola's entire broadcasting career was based on making up things he could attribute to Yogi Berra...
   15. TomH Posted: June 16, 2009 at 02:30 PM (#3220715)
agree with 11 and 12, but there is truth also in 15: if you're paid to tell a story, it behooves you to either be a little more sure of your facts, or at least couch the story with "if I recall correctly / this is how I remember", and we would be more forgiving for the oopses - as RichR (#2) espoused, it's a flaw in all of us and in much more of our histories than we likely care to think about. How much can you trust quotes from Aristotle, Plato, & Socrates when the extant manuscripts are 1,000 years after the originals? Of course Rich's example shows that he a priori has eliminated any divine revelation / preservation of truth, so naturally the conclusions he draws about Jesus, David et al follow (sigh) his assumptions.
   16. jwb Posted: June 16, 2009 at 02:52 PM (#3220735)
The Dead Sea Scrolls show that contents of the Old Testament were still rather fluid after they were written down.
   17. TomH Posted: June 16, 2009 at 03:09 PM (#3220752)
The DSS quote from every O.T. book save one, and are remarkably close to the other extant manuscripts - but not as close as some archconservative scholars have claimed.

http://www.answers.com/topic/dead-sea-scrolls gives IMHO a decent nonpartisan summary.
   18. rlc Posted: June 16, 2009 at 03:31 PM (#3220777)
there is truth also in 15: if you're paid to tell a story, it behooves you to either be a little more sure of your facts, or at least couch the story with "if I recall correctly / this is how I remember", and we would be more forgiving for the oopses

Not really what I meant - Morgan is paid to fill dead air time with reminiscences. If the choice is between entertaining and accurate, he can't be blamed for choosing the former; he doesn't work for the Information and Sports Programming Network, after all...
   19. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: June 16, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3220804)
This is amazing. Aaron would go on to hit, what, 300 more HR?


Yep, he hit another 296 and was still playing when Wilson died. For comparison, Adam Dunn has 295, and Rickey hit 297.
   20. Rich Rifkin Posted: June 17, 2009 at 01:43 AM (#3221676)
Of course Rich's example shows that he a priori has eliminated any divine revelation
Divine revelation. Laugh Out Loud!

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