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Monday, July 28, 2014

Deadspin: David Ortiz Pissed Off the Rays Again

David Ortiz’s three-run home run would be all the Red Sox needed in yesterday’s 3-2 win over Tampa. But he couldn’t have known that at the time—it was the third inning—yet Ortiz flipped his bat like he had just won a game, setting off yet another war of words with the Rays.

“I don’t know what makes him think that he can showboat the way he does, and then nobody retaliates,” said Rays pitcher Chris Archer. . . “Whatever, dude,” Ortiz said. “There’s always going to be comments out there. He’s not the right guy to be saying that, I think. He’s got two days in the league, and to be ######## and complaining about stuff like that.”

The Rays are a truly dislikable, whining bunch of twits. All credit to their front office, but what a bunch of tosspots.

The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 09:42 AM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bat flip, big papi, rays, red sox, two days in the majors, unwritten rules

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   1. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 10:49 AM (#4758933)
That should read "All credit to the Rays front office for building a contender on a shoestring budget,"

Also, I concur with Deadspin that Ortiz picking on Archer was some quality big-timing.
   2. Sonic Youk Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:10 AM (#4758952)
“I don’t know what makes him think that he can showboat the way he does, and then nobody retaliates,” said Rays pitcher Chris Archer


Actually, hes going to keep doing this specifically because the rays "retaliated" by throwing at him already. I hope Ortiz crawls around the bases next time.
   3. theboyqueen Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:10 AM (#4758953)
Right, the Rays may be plucky but at least they have some excuse. This Red Sox team is not only awful, but about as unlikeable a team as has ever been assembled. Ortiz has been whining about one thing or another all year.
   4. theboyqueen Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:13 AM (#4758956)
He can crawl his fat ass right into a solid last-place finish. The Astros are a scarier team than Boston. What a pathetic lineup.
   5. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:14 AM (#4758958)
If you don't want guys on the other team to flip their bats after hitting a home run, throw better pitches.
   6. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4758962)
People people people. Both teams are annoying. Throw in Buck Showalter and the perma-annoyance that is the Yankees and you have one hell of an annoying division. Go foreign team!
   7. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:18 AM (#4758963)
That was a pretty mild bat flip, particularly for Ortiz. The Rays might want to work on lifting their threshold for stuff that pissed them off.

   8. theboyqueen Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:20 AM (#4758967)
I got nothing against the Rays to be honest (I dig Maddon's hipster guru vibe). Even this Yankees team isn't really all that unlikeable (more irrelevant than anything, but Tanaka is cool). But yeah Boston and Baltimore -- ugh.
   9. Squash Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:22 AM (#4758968)
If you don't want guys on the other team to flip their bats after hitting a home run, throw better pitches.

Ditto. I've never been able to figure out why pitchers don't just strike out everybody every time. Then they wouldn't have to worry about this stuff.
   10. Sonic Youk Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:25 AM (#4758971)
Chris Archer has a history of showing people up in his short big league career. He kissed his bicep after striking out Daniel Nava last year. I guess the proper response would have been for Nava to walk out to the mound and brain him with a bat for disrespecting the game like that, right?
   11. Dan Lee is some pumkins Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4758977)
I've never been able to figure out why pitchers don't just strike out everybody every time. Then they wouldn't have to worry about this stuff.
You kid, but my point is this: If you're playing a sport at the highest level and you can't emotionally handle having a guy celebrate making you look silly, you either need to get better or get a great therapist.
   12. Magnum RA Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:28 AM (#4758978)
I'm an O's fan so I'm not seeing it. How are the Orioles unlikeable on the level of Boston?
   13. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:29 AM (#4758979)
Chris Archer has a history of showing people up in his short big league career. He kissed his bicep after striking out Daniel Nava last year. I guess the proper response would have been for Nava to walk out to the mound and brain him with a bat for disrespecting the game like that, right?


Well, Archer didn't throw at Ortiz, so that doesn't really follow.


How are the Orioles unlikeable on the level of Boston?


A little Buck goes a really long way.
   14. Toby Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4758981)
Did I miss the time when David Price and Chris Archer lit into Fernando Rodney for spending two seasons on the Rays doing his stupid archer bit?
   15. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:35 AM (#4758983)
I'm an O's fan so I'm not seeing it. How are the Orioles unlikeable on the level of Boston?


They aren't the team I root for so they are unlikable.

Really that's all it is. I'm not so blind as to think the Sox are pure of heart or anything (and frankly some of the complaints about Ortiz are more than justified) but every team in baseball does this sort of stuff. I could easily find a reason to dislike all 30 teams.
   16. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4758984)
Just don't tag any Orioles or they'll throw at your head. That's all I'm saying.
   17. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:36 AM (#4758985)
Sorry, but the blue jays are far more annoying than Showalter. That said, I'm an orioles fan and love Buck, but even I find him annoying. I can't argue with the claim that the AL East is an incredibly annoying group of people top to bottom.
   18. Xander Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:39 AM (#4758989)
The Rays are so hyper-sensitive to Ortiz at this point, all you can do is laugh. Wil Myers flips his bat every time he hits a flyball and no one cares. David Price screams his way off the mound every time he strikes a hitter out and no one cares. As said above, Chris Archer literally kissed is bicep after a strikeout last year. The Red Sox didn't care.

For a team that plays up the free-spirit act so much, they're very quick to get offended when Ortiz gives a fairly pedestrian batflip..
   19. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4758990)
At this moment in time, I'd rank them
1. Red Sox (pretty much everything)
2. Rays (whiny and annoying + lots of criminals + Longoria's comment about Shields)
3. Yankees (historical legacy + Girardi + Jeter retirement nonsense)
4. (tie) Orioles and Blue Jays (I'd put the BJs above the Orioles, but I'll list them as equal to account for my own bias)


   20. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:40 AM (#4758991)
If the two worst teams in the AL East want to spend the rest of the season sniping at each other, and getting into the occasional bench-clearing-shoving-match, at least it will give their fans something to get excited about for August and September.
   21. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:43 AM (#4758993)
I can't argue with the claim that the AL East is an incredibly annoying group of people top to bottom.


Nor can I. And yeah, Papi watched his shot go out, but that's barely worth being called a bat flip.
   22. Martin Hemner Posted: July 28, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4759006)
As a Yankee fan, I don't really find the current version of the Red Sox to be that annoying. I think Ortiz has realized that he's going to be linked to steroids after his career whether true or not, and his happy-go-lucky approach that used to be there has been replaced by some anger. I'm not sure I blame him.
   23. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM (#4759011)
I think Ortiz has realized that he's going to be linked to steroids after his career whether true or not, and his happy-go-lucky approach that used to be there has been replaced by some anger. I'm not sure I blame him.


Nah, he's always been like this. He's generally happy-go-lucky but a couple of times a year something happens that pisses him off and he's not shy about sharing it.
   24. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:01 PM (#4759013)
Ortiz is really an artist with the bat flip. I guess different people see different things, but I thought it was a nice little display of disdain, as if he couldn't be bothered to actually flip his bat. Watching the game yesterday, I laughed and called my wife in to watch the replay.
   25. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4759015)
Nah, he's always been like this. He's generally happy-go-lucky but a couple of times a year something happens that pisses him off and he's not shy about sharing it.


Oh, yeah. He'd actually fit in really nicely with the Rays.

   26. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:03 PM (#4759016)
Showalter is Brian McCann plus 30 years. Rarely has a manager exceeded his douche/accomplishment ratio. I hope he ends his career defined by his failure to win a pennant.
   27. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:08 PM (#4759022)
Rarely has a manager exceeded his douche/accomplishment ratio. I hope he ends his career defined by his failure to win a pennant.


Supreme douche Bobby Valentine got his pennant, but unlike Buck, he never managed to win a division title in 16 seasons. It's a good race there.

   28. 'zop sympathizes with the wrong ####### people Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:20 PM (#4759034)
Nah, he's always been like this. He's generally happy-go-lucky but a couple of times a year something happens that pisses him off and he's not shy about sharing it.


Yeah, that can happen when you forget you've already taken your morning dose and you double up. I feel for Ortiz.
   29. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:50 PM (#4759048)
Vic Carapazza's the guy the Rays should be pissed at. His performance was disgraceful.
   30. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 12:57 PM (#4759052)
Vic Carapazza's the guy the Rays should be pissed at. His performance was disgraceful.


Oh man he was really terrible. I think (as is often the case) it evened out but he was terrible. The two that stick out to me were him ringing up Jennings in the first on a pitch that wasn't close then missing an obvious strike three in the ninth. The next pitch was in the same place and called strike three.
   31. Rough Carrigan Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4759055)
#14 Amen.
Fricking Rodney was the biggest showboat in MLB with his arrow to the sky bit and where were self appointed protectors of the game David Price and Chris Archer? Oh yeah, laughing it up with the rest of the team. STFU Chris.
   32. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:21 PM (#4759068)
Chris Archer literally kissed is bicep after a strikeout last year.
Yep, this is the model of quiet professionalism and restraint who is talking about Ortiz showboating.

   33. madvillain Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:30 PM (#4759075)
Chris Archer literally kissed is bicep after a strikeout last year.


Oh god, the Horror of a pro athlete celebrating an accomplishment!

If you applied the stupid logic in baseball that celebrating a good play is "showing up the other guy" to other sports you'd have anarchy. Oh, you just scored a 90 yard touchdown, better just hand the ball back to the ref Barry Sanders style. Oh you just scored a sick volley goal to win the Cup, better just quietly go back to the center circle for fear of pissing off the goalie.

I'm not excusing Papi or Archer, both are being petty as ####; and this pettiness seems to permeate through MLB in ways it doesn't in other pro sports.
   34. AROM Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:36 PM (#4759078)
I think Ortiz has realized that he's going to be linked to steroids after his career whether true or not, and his happy-go-lucky approach that used to be there has been replaced by some anger. I'm not sure I blame him.


He can cry about it to Sosa, Bagwell, Piazza, and Clemens.
   35. AROM Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:40 PM (#4759080)
This Red Sox team is not only awful, but about as unlikeable a team as has ever been assembled.


Maybe not ever, but at least since 2012. Having a bad, unlikeable team topped off with Bobby Valentine was a true work of performance art rivaling Jack Gleason's portrayal of Joffrey Baratheon.
   36. AROM Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4759087)
It is funny to see comments like that about a team that just won the world series amid all the "chemistry is the new inefficiency" memes. They mostly brought back the same crew, except for:

CF - Bradley replacing Ellsbury

Not nearly as good, at least yet. But Ellsbury always seemed a bit bland and reserved. Bradley doesn't have his bat but seems a likeable kid who hustles and plays great defense.

C - AJP over Salt (I'm not going to try and spell either). OK, got me there. Major subtraction by addition for one of the most unlikeable players of his generation. But he's gone now. Somebody else's problem.

So does good chemistry lead to winning or does winning lead to good chemistry? Seems we have a data point.
   37. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 01:59 PM (#4759093)
It is funny to see comments like that about a team that just won the world series amid all the "chemistry is the new inefficiency" memes.


I think the people saying the Red Sox are unlikeable are not Red Sox fans. For the most part Red Sox fans this year have seemed frustrated but still like the team (except AJ who as you note was jettisoned). There hasn't been nearly the level of fan discontent that there was two years ago.
   38. Jittery McFrog Posted: July 28, 2014 at 02:26 PM (#4759119)
I agree with #37. I'm a Red Sox fan, and now that AJP has been replaced by Vazquez -- who is not only not AJP but actually a treat to watch on defense -- I find this a pretty likable team. Obviously the results have been frustrating but I still enjoy watching them and rooting for them.

And even for those who don't share that rosy view, this team shouldn't hold a candle to the unpleasantness of the 2012 team. Not even close.

The Rays stuff is just white noise to me, except for the throwing baseballs at people, which I have no patience for regardless of who does it.
   39. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 28, 2014 at 02:43 PM (#4759141)
And even for those who don't share that rosy view, this team shouldn't hold a candle to the unpleasantness of the 2012 team. Not even close.


Or 2001, which rivaled 2012 on the unlikability scale. There's nothing terribly loathsome about this group, other than the fact they stink.

And hell, I'm one of the world's only A.J. fans,* so that wasn't a problem for me.

* White Sox fans excluded.
   40. AROM Posted: July 28, 2014 at 02:48 PM (#4759149)
And even for those who don't share that rosy view, this team shouldn't hold a candle to the unpleasantness of the 2012 team. Not even close.


I think any Red Sox fan who disagrees has serious short term memory issues. They may not be playing well, but at least if they take a lead to the 9th, Koji will hold it. Compare that to the Alfredo Aceves experience.
   41. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 02:51 PM (#4759156)
Compare that to the Alfredo Aceves experience.


I have medication that helps with that.
   42. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 28, 2014 at 03:18 PM (#4759198)
Archer didn't just kiss his bicep, but did it after leaping off the mound, then kissing the bicep while staring down Nava from ~40 feet away.

The more the Rays complain, the more Papi is going to do it. I'd expect a bat flip on 150% of his HR against Tampa for the rest of his career.
   43. SandyRiver Posted: July 28, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4759212)
Oh god, the Horror of a pro athlete celebrating an accomplishment!


Obviously, the horror is in the hypocrisy. One of my favorite definitions for that label goes, "Condoning for oneself that which is condemned in another." Mr. Archer is far from the only ballplayer guilty of such behavior, but provided a good example of it yesterday.
   44. DKDC Posted: July 28, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4759213)
I was never into wrestling as a kid, but I'll admit some of the appeal of being a baseball fan is projecting villainy on the rival teams.

It's nice when guys like Ortiz go out of their way to be ######## and make it easy. The Blue Jays, led by Bautista, seem like a surly lot. Girardi is irritating, and Maddon's schtick can be annoying, but there really aren't any players on those teams that have perma-villain status.

From time to time there are smaller episodes like Lackey/Ross mouthing off, or Price being prickly that help the hate, and in two big cases, a subset of the fans make it very easy to dislike those teams.

My guys get a pass for the most part.

Manny definitely pushed the limits of that system, but it was so isolated and out of character I'm giving him a pass for now, and he handled all the silliness thrown at him by the As fans admirably. Buck is pretty much a Joe Girardi personality who knows how to manage, he will push buttons and prickle to keep the heat off his guys. I wouldn't like him on another team, but he's perfect for these Os, and comparing him to Bobby Valentine is a disgrace. Some people seem to dislike Adam Jones but I can't understand why.

Davis said some annoying things about a clean record that one time. Cruz was suspended for PED. Delmon Young is a bit player, but he has a history. I don't think anyone else on the team really rates a reaction out of opposing fans.
   45. Flynn Posted: July 28, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4759235)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think most Red Sox fans know they got really lucky last year. So if this season's the hangover then fine, it was still worth it.

2014 isn't a patch on 2012, which was a real sour and miserable year, or 2001 when the entire region hated the Red Sox and everything about them.
   46. Dale Sams Posted: July 28, 2014 at 03:51 PM (#4759238)
So does good chemistry lead to winning or does winning lead to good chemistry? Seems we have a data point.


Good chemistry helps turn lead into gold. Which is pretty much what happened last year.




Maybe next time he'll flip the bat towards the Rays dugout.
   47. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 28, 2014 at 04:02 PM (#4759245)
Some people seem to dislike Adam Jones but I can't understand why.


I'm one of the people that doesn't like Adam Jones and you know what? I can't understand why either. There is just something about him that makes me want to smack him. He's one of my favorite players in baseball to watch, he's so graceful and my recollection is that he generally seems appreciative of the history of the game but every time I see him I just want to give him a knuckle sandwich.
   48. theboyqueen Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:21 PM (#4759283)
Manny, Pedro, and Nomar managed to accomplish the near-impossible -- to make the Red Sox a likeable team. I, for one, am glad that's over and that the Boston media, the city of Boston, and the "Red Sox Nation" are now back to having the team they deserve.

Tampa is an expansion team with no fans and a manager who looks and sounds like he could have been in some second-rate SST band in the 80s. They also win lots of games most years. Whatever douchiness they exude doesn't even register in comparison to the Goliath asshattery of the Red Sox.
   49. theboyqueen Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:24 PM (#4759286)
I used to get a kick out of uniting with the Red Sox fans when they showed up in Oakland and doing "F*ck the Yankees" chants together, but at this point I think I'd rather do a "F*ck the Red Sox" chant with Yankee fans. So I guess my "allegiance" has switched.

Most despised will always be the Giants, but the Sox have secured number two for the time being.
   50. Dale Sams Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:40 PM (#4759295)
Whatever douchiness they exude doesn't even register in comparison to the Goliath asshattery of the Red Sox.


Yes...we get it.

and the "Red Sox Nation" are now back to having the team they deserve.


World Champions?
   51. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 28, 2014 at 05:48 PM (#4759299)
So I guess my "allegiance" has switched.


Aren't you fickle!
   52. DFA Posted: July 29, 2014 at 02:44 AM (#4759519)
Manny definitely pushed the limits of that system, but it was so isolated and out of character I'm giving him a pass for now, and he handled all the silliness thrown at him by the As fans admirably.


I find it so difficult to do this. I can separate the bat tossing incident from the long swing; the bat tossing was a dumb thing. But the long swing hitting Norris, twice, crossed a line for me. I mean, the possibility of giving him a concussion that could have a lifetime of damage is borderline criminal IMO. I don't know, I'm going to have a hard time cheering for him.

As for the Red Sox, yes they have surpassed the Yankees for most hated fan base. The Jays and their fans are no angels either. And I struggle to believe Tampa deserves the Rays...
   53. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: July 29, 2014 at 08:33 AM (#4759541)
I'm starting to think theboyqueen doesn't like the Red Sox. He's subtle about it but there are clues.
   54. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 29, 2014 at 08:44 AM (#4759546)
And hell, I'm one of the world's only A.J. fans,* so that wasn't a problem for me.


Me too. Well I love to sports hate him. He is a great villain. MLB needs great villains.
   55. bigglou115 Posted: July 29, 2014 at 09:04 AM (#4759550)
@26, I really don't get the animas around here for McCann. He had 2 incidents in one month over a career that's lasted almost a decade now. The entirety of the rest of his career he's never gotten any press but positive for his personality and attitude. Did he lose it those times? Yeah. Does it make sense to pigeonhole him as the go to example of ############ forever based on that? I wouldn't think so. Hell, for all we know his dog died that month, they'd make me cranky.

Given the fact that he was never considered one of those unwritten rules guys before, and hasn't said anything since going to the Yanks, I'd think there were better examples out there. Hell, even after the thing with Gomez (who has a history of hot dogging) Gomez admitted he crossed the line and McCann's reaction was overblown by the media.
   56. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: July 29, 2014 at 10:39 AM (#4759594)
I'm one of the people that doesn't like Adam Jones and you know what? I can't understand why either. There is just something about him that makes me want to smack him. He's one of my favorite players in baseball to watch, he's so graceful and my recollection is that he generally seems appreciative of the history of the game but every time I see him I just want to give him a knuckle sandwich.

Backpfeifengesicht.

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