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Monday, February 20, 2012

Deadspin: The Making Of “Homer At The Bat”

How big was this episode:

On Feb. 20, 1992, more American homes tuned into The Simpsons than they did The Cosby Show or the Winter Olympics from Albertville, France. A foul-mouthed cartoon on a fourth-place network bested the Huxtables and the world’s best amateur athletes. Fox over NBC and CBS—its first-ever victory in prime time. New over old.

And how were the players who were on the show:

Showrunner Al Jean has said the players who committed were more than happy to do the show. Well, almost of all of them. “They were all really nice,” Jean said on the DVD commentary, “except for one whose name rhymes with Manseco.”

Mark S. is bored Posted: February 20, 2012 at 08:30 PM | 1075 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: television

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   501. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4067438)
Also in The Walking Dead the population of at least Southeast America is wiped out in about a week.


Only the parts of Southeast America that you've directly seen in the story. The rest is, at best, hearsay from unreliable narrators.

The reality is that on day X something like 7,000 Americans would die of natural causes and somehow those 7,000 zombies plus all the people who died for whatever reason (zombie-related or otherwise) over the next period of days/weeks are supposed to then wipe out the rest of the population in a matter of days or a couple of weeks.


Fixed that for you. Every day following the first, you've got at least another 7,000 zombies (and maybe more, given the number of nudniks who will be accidentally shooting people or setting buildings on fire or crashing cars while driving away from zombies or whatever), plus any humans the already-existing zombies were able to convert.

You're also looking at it in too linear a fashion. The big zombie population spikes come from individual cases in extremely densely populated areas, where one zombie is able to locate and infect a bunch of people contained in a given small area in one go, who are all then released at the same time in a group capable of overwhelming even a well-prepared survivor if they stumble into one another. One old janitor has a heart attack in the school basement, and then rises and shambles into the auditorium in the middle of an assembly, and you've got dozens, maybe hundreds, of new infection vectors in one fell swoop. Now, imagine that instead of a school, it's an emergency shelter like the Superdome...
   502. Cowboy Popup Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4067440)
Have we really had this long of a discussion about Archer and no one has even so much as brought up the genius of Archer creator Adam Reed's "Frisky Dingo"?

I didn't think anyone else would want to talk about it. Frisky Dingo was unreal. The first time I watched the show, I was too stoned to move. I thought it was a dream, a constantly funny dream. The story goes in such a wonderful direction.

I have tried passing that show on to my friends who love Archer, but it just makes them want to watch Archer more then Frisky. Adam Reed also did Sealab IIRC (IMDB confirms! And he also did Space Ghost!), which means that man must just poop out funny cartoons.

And as long as I've just listed a bunch of Adult Swim cartoons, anyone who likes H. Jon Benjamin should really check out Home Movies. I just started it about 6 months ago on Netflix and I've enjoyed nearly every episode.
   503. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4067452)
Fixed that for you.

You didn't, you just created a redundant statement.


You're also looking at it in too linear a fashion. The big zombie population spikes come from individual cases in extremely densely populated areas, where one zombie is able to locate and infect a bunch of people contained in a given small area in one go, who are all then released at the same time in a group capable of overwhelming even a well-prepared survivor if they stumble into one another.

And you are assuming that for some reason nobody is going to kill zombies or that somehow zombies are going to turn 10 humans or more before they are brought down. Biting a human being is extremely hard to do when they don't want to be bitten and you are a mindless bag of flesh. As someone else said if it was as easy as they make it out to be then rabies would have consumed the world already.

One old janitor has a heart attack in the school basement, and then rises and shambles into the auditorium in the middle of an assembly, and you've got dozens, maybe hundreds, of new infection vectors in one fell swoop.

Not really. You have maybe one or two possibly 10 at most people getting bitten. People don't just stand around and let someone bite them.
   504. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4067497)
You didn't, you just created a redundant statement.


No, I didn't. Your original statement was that the 7,000 zombies that existed on Day Zero rolled through the population like a wheat thresher through a field of prairie dogs. I just noted that they got a huge number of reinforcements over that time.

And you are assuming that for some reason nobody is going to kill zombies or that somehow zombies are going to turn 10 humans or more before they are brought down.


Sure, people are going to kill some of the zombies before they infect anybody. But it only takes one mass outbreak to create a wave that'd be nearly unstoppable for anybody in the immediate vicinity. It's a situation of dynamic equilibrium, where once things start to go out of control, they accelerate rapidly.

Not really. You have maybe one or two possibly 10 at most people getting bitten. People don't just stand around and let someone bite them.


Panicked people don't calmly file out of a room while their classmates are being munched by a shambling corpse, especially in a world where people have never heard of zombies and it's something totally outside of their conceptual framework. They freak the #### out and start racing for the exits. People run into each other and get into fights. They trip and fall, sprain ankles, break legs. They run around frantically looking for friends or loved ones. Smaller and weaker people get knocked down and trampled. A few just go into shock and totally shut down.

Not to mention the kind of stuff that can happen when you get into a crush situation in a bottleneck at an exit. Compressive asphyxia is no joke. Look at something like the Hillsborough disaster or the Hartford circus fire and imagine that the instigating event was a wandering zombie. How quickly would those situations have gone to ####?
   505. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4067504)
since we're on the topic of zombies, what are people's thoughts of "i am legend"?
   506. Srul Itza Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4067507)
I have a weakness for postapocalyptic films and novels in general


So do I, but not for the zombie genre in any way, shape or form. Terminally, impossibly stupid fare. There has never been a single Zombie movie, book or show that I have found even slightly watchable, with the possible exception of the Thriller video -- those Zombies could dance, baby.
   507. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4067511)

No, I didn't. Your original statement was that the 7,000 zombies that existed on Day Zero rolled through the population like a wheat thresher through a field of prairie dogs. I just noted that they got a huge number of reinforcements over that time.


Which is already known since I already stated that everybody is infected and that 7,000 people a day in America die.

Sure, people are going to kill some of the zombies before they infect anybody. But it only takes one mass outbreak to create a wave that'd be nearly unstoppable for anybody in the immediate vicinity. It's a situation of dynamic equilibrium, where once things start to go out of control, they accelerate rapidly.

These things are mindless bags of skin with teeth. Even if somehow the zombies were able to get a large amount of them in small area that still doesn't mean a lot. Are you going to stand 10 feet away from a horde of 500 zombies? I would guess the answer is no so you are going to want to move away and unlike a zombie you are capable of doing things more complicated than shuffling and biting. 500 zombies in one place are also an extremely easy target to eradicate which means the more they congregate the easier it will be to destroy them. The real problems would be the smaller individual level problems. A homeless guy in a major city turning and infecting one or two people before being stopped or not being capable of finding more humans before being spotted by someone that can take him down. But like I just mentioned once they get to the point where a bunch of them gather together they would get wiped out.



Panicked people don't calmly file out of a room while their classmates are being munched by a shambling corpse, especially in a world where people have never heard of zombies and it's something totally outside of their conceptual framework.


You do realize your example is about one zombie right? A zombie that is biting people. Why are people going to freak out to the point that they simply become incapable of defending themselves against a mindless bag with teeth? Assemblies have had disturbances before and they don't cause mass panic and people somehow crowding defenseless around the person attacking them. Think about Columbine or the shootings in cafeterias. For Columbine you had two kids going into a school guns and how many people did they manage to injure? 33 people. Now imagine if those two kids were trying to inflict harm by biting them.
   508. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4067516)
since we're on the topic of zombies, what are people's thoughts of "i am legend"?


The Will Smith one? Decent, right until they totally ###### up the ending and made the vampires stupid, rather than a parallel society.
   509. Cowboy Popup Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:20 PM (#4067523)
since we're on the topic of zombies, what are people's thoughts of "i am legend"?

Really good right up until (SPOILER, in case some hasn't seen it and still wants to) the dog dies. Then it gets terrible and the end is nonsensical.
   510. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:21 PM (#4067526)
Which is already known since I already stated that everybody is infected and that 7,000 people a day in America die.


But that's not how you said it. I can't know what you do or don't know, only what you do or don't say.

These things are mindless bags of skin with teeth.


So are crocodiles, more or less, and that doesn't stop them from being a significant and ongoing danger to humans.

Are you going to stand 10 feet away from a horde of 500 zombies? I would guess the answer is no so you are going to want to move away...


And sometimes, you're in a situation where you can't move away, and then you get eaten. You accidentally ran down a dead-end street when you were fleeing from the school thing, or you got onto an elevator and headed to a floor with a zombie a couple feet away from the door, or you fell asleep at the wrong time in the wrong place, and that's it.

500 zombies in one place are also an extremely easy target to eradicate which means the more they congregate the easier it will be to destroy them.


Nobody knows how to destroy zombies because people in that fictional world have never heard of zombies. Sure, you know to aim for the head, but none of them do. The agents of order in this situation are going to start out by using ineffective chemical riot control agents like tear gas, or aiming for useless torso hits, or using incendiary weapons like napalm that only create a bunch of ambulatory torches and set the whole town on fire. And even if someone does figure out a technique that works, anyone who hasn't seen a zombie yet is going to laugh him out of the room - the whole situation sounds like a bad joke.

Why are people going to freak out to the point that they simply become incapable of defending themselves against a mindless bag with teeth?


Because within that fictional world they don't have any idea what a "zombie" is. They don't come into it with the same knowledge that you do. They turn around and HOLY #### THAT'S MRS. O'REILLY BUT SHE'S ALL DEAD AND ROTTEN AND COMING RIGHT FOR ME!!! It's something that breaks all the known laws of how the world operates. People aren't going to know how to process it. Having a gun pointed at you is scary, but everybody knows what a gun is and what it does. It doesn't throw your entire conception of reality into question.
   511. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4067535)

But that's not how you said it. I can't know what you do or don't know, only what you do or don't say.


So you don't know that I know that 7,000 people die each day and I stated that everybody is infected even though I stated both of those things?



So are crocodiles, more or less, and that doesn't stop them from being a significant and ongoing danger to humans.


Well, when a zombie can move as fast as a crocodile, be as strong as a crocodile, be as hard to kill as a crocodile, and possess their instincts to hunt and kill that might be a valid point.

And sometimes, you're in a situation where you can't move away, and then you get eaten. You accidentally ran down a dead-end street when you were fleeing from the school thing, or you got onto an elevator and headed to a floor with a zombie a couple feet away from the door, or you fell asleep at the wrong time in the wrong place, and that's it.

And that is going to create the uncontrollable zombie horde that wipes out humanity?

Oops it's a dead end I guess I'll just have to die then.

Nobody knows how to destroy zombies because people in that fictional world have never heard of zombies. Sure, you know to aim for the head, but none of them do. The agents of order in this situation are going to start out by using ineffective chemical riot control agents like tear gas, or aiming for useless torso hits, or using incendiary weapons like napalm that only create a bunch of ambulatory torches and set the whole town on fire. And even if someone does figure out a technique that works, anyone who hasn't seen a zombie yet is going to laugh him out of the room - the whole situation sounds like a bad joke.

It isn't going to take Einstein and 7 years of study to figure it out.

Hey look tear gas isn't working. Maybe we should escalate the level of force. Hey, I just shot him in the chest and it didn't stop him. Look over there, Bob dropped one with a head shot. Hmm, I wonder. . . . .

And again we don't live in 1820. If zombies become an issue beyond a zombie in Central Park biting the occasional person the news about them is going to get out and get out fast. We are a society that wants to here about pandemics, real or imagined. Swine Flu, Bird Flu, H1N1 but people turning into zombies is somehow not going to get media attention?

They don't come into it with the same knowledge that you do. They turn around and HOLY #### THAT'S MRS. O'REILLY BUT SHE'S ALL DEAD AND ROTTEN AND COMING RIGHT FOR ME!!! It's something that breaks all the known laws of how the world operates. People aren't going to know how to process it. Having a gun pointed at you is scary, but everybody knows what a gun is and what it does. It doesn't throw your entire conception of reality into question.

Why is Mrs O'Reilly rotting? The janitor died of a heart attack 2 minutes ago.

People aren't going to know how to process it

Which doesn't mean they go into a coma. They'll be scared, they'll be panicky, they won't know how to kill it but that doesn't mean the zombie is going to bite hundreds of them.
   512. PreservedFish Posted: February 23, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4067543)
Agreed on I Am Legend. I actually thought the first half was wonderful ... really spare and eerie and interesting. But then the nonsense started and it snowballs into a nonsense avalanche ending.
   513. Der-K thinks the Essex Green were a good band. Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:07 PM (#4067554)
I loved Home Movies, though I've never seen the final episode. Hear it's a bit of a tearjerker.
   514. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:34 PM (#4067567)
And that is going to create the uncontrollable zombie horde that wipes out humanity?


Well, yeah. You're faster than a zombie, but it never gets tired or thirsty or distracted or needs to take a ####. Until you can kill it or it sees a better opportunity to go after someone else, it's going to chase you forever. And sooner or later, you're going to #### up.

be as hard to kill as a crocodile


It's much, much harder to kill than a crocodile, because it's not alive, and because people know what crocodiles are and how to kill them.

It isn't going to take Einstein and 7 years of study to figure it out.


Isn't it? On Day Zero, people aren't going to start out knowing jack ####. And people are very good at not believing things that they know to be impossible, even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.

Hey look tear gas isn't working. Maybe we should escalate the level of force.


Hey, wait a second! Maybe they're just confused because they're sick. Or they're operating under some kind of mind control. You can't just shoot an unarmed man - that's murder! You'll go to jail! And you know what happens to ex-cops in jail!

Why is Mrs O'Reilly rotting?


Yeah, that's a productive course of action. Wonder why the dead person looks all rotten, while it's shambling toward you with its mouth open.

If zombies become an issue beyond a zombie in Central Park biting the occasional person the news about them is going to get out and get out fast.


Because news organizations are going to run to be out in front of a "Totally Implausible #### Happening, Per Unconfirmed Reports" story like the dead coming back to life and attacking the living.

Swine Flu, Bird Flu, H1N1 but people turning into zombies is somehow not going to get media attention?


Eventually, yeah, once it spreads far enough, it's going to get all kinds of media attention. Every crackpot with a pet theory is going to be shouting himself hoarse on a panel discussion on CNN. Maybe it's the End Times, and they're coming back from the dead because God wills it! Maybe it's mass hysteria! Maybe it's a mutant form of rabies! Or AIDS! Or leprosy! Or Ebola! Or bird flu! Maybe they aren't actually dead bodies at all, but just things that look like dead bodies! Maybe they're being controlled by alien parasites! Maybe they're powered by ghosts, and if you perform an exorcism you can kill them! Maybe they're attracted to magnetic fields! Maybe it's some kind of chemically-induced temporary insanity from an industrial accident, and they'll all go back to normal if you leave them alone! Maybe it's all a government ploy to institute martial law and confiscate everybody's guns! Maybe it's a terrorist attack by Al Qaeda! Maybe it's a secret plot by the Jews! Or the Bilderbergers! Or the Freemasons! Maybe it's a Chinese invasion, and everybody just thinks it's a bunch of walking corpses because the Chinese dropped a ####-ton of LSD in the town reservoir!
   515. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4067571)


Well, yeah. You're faster than a zombie, but it never gets tired or thirsty or distracted or needs to take a ####. Until you can kill it or it sees a better opportunity to go after someone else, it's going to chase you forever. And sooner or later, you're going to #### up.


Everybody lives in an infinity cornfield? Turn a corner and then turn another one and it has lost you.



It's much, much harder to kill than a crocodile, because it's not alive, and because people know what crocodiles are and how to kill them.


Go ahead and try to kill a crocodile with a bat. Please make sure to invite me over so I can watch and capture it for Youtube.

Isn't it? On Day Zero, people aren't going to start out knowing jack ####. And people are very good at not believing things that they know to be impossible, even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.

People understand attacks and sicknesses. But people are going to understand multiple people all across the country trying to bite them and not being stopped by being pumped full of bullets unless one of those bullets go through the brain. Again, this isn't 1820. The information is going to get out there very very fast.


Hey, wait a second! Maybe they're just confused because they're sick. Or they're operating under some kind of mind control. You can't just shoot an unarmed man - that's murder! You'll go to jail! And you know what happens to ex-cops in jail!


So we're back to one zombie running slightly amok? One zombie is going to be a problem?



Yeah, that's a productive course of action. Wonder why the dead person looks all rotten, while it's shambling toward you with its mouth open.


No, I'm asking how the janitor is rotting even though he just died of a heart attack two minutes ago in your scenario. If Mrs. O'Reilly is rotting that means she has been dead for a long time which means the zombie problem has been a problem for quite awhile which means Mrs. O'Reilly isn't going to be able to simply wander into some assembly at a school.

Because news organizations are going to run to be out in front of a "Totally Implausible #### Happening, Per Unconfirmed Reports" story like the dead coming back to life and attacking the living.


So again are we back to one zombie running slightly amok? But yeah they would. These are the same people that blew H1N1 out of proportion.

Eventually, yeah, once it spreads far enough, it's going to get all kinds of media attention. Every crackpot with a pet theory is going to be shouting himself hoarse on a panel discussion on CNN. Maybe it's the End Times, and they're coming back from the dead because God wills it! Maybe it's mass hysteria! Maybe it's a mutant form of rabies! Or AIDS! Or leprosy! Or Ebola! Or bird flu! Maybe they aren't actually dead bodies at all, but just things that look like dead bodies! Maybe they're being controlled by alien parasites! Maybe they're powered by ghosts, and if you perform an exorcism you can kill them! Maybe they're attracted to magnetic fields! Maybe it's some kind of chemically-induced temporary insanity from an industrial accident, and they'll all go back to normal if you leave them alone! Maybe it's all a government ploy to institute martial law and confiscate everybody's guns! Maybe it's a terrorist attack by Al Qaeda! Maybe it's a secret plot by the Jews! Or the Bilderbergers! Or the Freemasons! Maybe it's a Chinese invasion, and everybody just thinks it's a bunch of walking corpses because the Chinese dropped a ####-ton of LSD in the town reservoir!

And none of that changes the fact that human beings are incredibly resourceful, have an incredible amount of resources that can be brought to bear, and that zombies are mindless bags with teeth that shuffle along.
   516. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:55 PM (#4067574)
So you don't know that I know that 7,000 people die each day and I stated that everybody is infected even though I stated both of those things?


7000 people each day under normal conditions, but of course we're talking about a rampaging infectious agent with enormous penetration and a high degree of lethality in itself. As mentioned in #388, "I think it depends on the initial etiology of the infection. Bubonic plague wiped out half of Europe's population twice, the 1918 flu pandemic infected something like 25% of global population, if you get a virulent lethal bug to give you that initial horde of several million to the millions added every day through other mortality and you'll need to call out the Avengers." Mortality for that little flu bug was well under 10% and still killed ~50 million, let's keep the rate of infection the same but crank up the lethality to 50% or so. There's your horde, refreshed daily with thousands of newly reanimated.

zombies are mindless bags with teeth


Yeah yeah yeah, I think I can already figure out what to put on your tombstone, assuming we'll be able to bury what's left of you after the horde has picked over your carcass.

   517. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 10:57 PM (#4067577)
Maybe it's a secret plot by the Jews!


It's Jews poisoning the town wells, everyone who lived through the Black Death remembers that.
   518. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:04 PM (#4067581)
Turn a corner and then turn another one and it has lost you.


Or it follows you, and because you stopped running, it catches and eats you. Or you just accidentally rounded a corner into a dead end, and then the one that was coming the other direction catches and eats you.

Go ahead and try to kill a crocodile with a bat. Please make sure to invite me over so I can watch and capture it for Youtube.


Go ahead and try and kill a zombie with fire, or electricity, or a gunshot to the abdomen, or a garotte, or poison, or hard vacuum, or drowning, or...

But people are going to understand multiple people all across the country trying to bite them and not being stopped by being pumped full of bullets unless one of those bullets go through the brain.


I'm pretty sure people are NOT going to understand that, since they have a whole lifetime of knowing that things like that are impossible. It's like hearing that the president was gored to death by a unicorn.

So we're back to one zombie running slightly amok? One zombie is going to be a problem?


No, why would you assume that? You aren't allowed to shoot individual rioters without provocation, just because there's a bunch of them. A cop sees two guys rolling around on the ground, the first trying to punch the second, the second trying to bite the first, and he's going to reach for his taser, not start aiming for headshots.

If Mrs. O'Reilly is rotting that means she has been dead for a long time which means the zombie problem has been a problem for quite awhile which means Mrs. O'Reilly isn't going to be able to simply wander into some assembly at a school.


Maybe the school's next to a mortuary. Or a cemetery. Or Mrs. O'Reilly was a shut-in and nobody found her for six months after she expired, until a Jehovah's Witness happened to try the front door, much to his dismay. Who knows?

If you're having this much trouble accepting the idea of a zombie having rotten parts, what does that say about the ability of the average person to conceptualize the idea of walking, ravenous corpses right in the moment when they first see one?

And none of that changes the fact that human beings are incredibly resourceful, have an incredible amount of resources that can be brought to bear...


How's that cure for AIDS coming? We've only been working on it for what, 30 years now?

...and that zombies are mindless bags with teeth that shuffle along.


Something doesn't need to have a mind to be a significant danger. Hurricanes don't have minds. Neither do viruses. They just do what they do to anyone who ends up in their path.
   519. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:09 PM (#4067583)
There's your horde, refreshed daily with thousands of newly reanimated.


Going up against over 311 million Americans. It would be a minor nuisance that eventually society would create something to deal with the issue.

Yeah yeah yeah, I think I can already figure out what to put on your tombstone, assuming we'll be able to bury what's left of you after the horde has picked over your carcass.

People will die but the zombies are not going to wipe almost 7 billion people and they most certainly are not going to do it in a matter of days or a couple of weeks.

And again, millions don't die everyday right now. 155,000 around the world die for a variety of non-zombie related reasons. And again millions even 150 million worldwide puts the local number of zombies at extremely low number. Yeah, if 150 million Americans all became zombies at once North America would have a serious short term problem but it wouldn't wipe out the human specie nor create the end of the species in North America.
   520. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4067586)
Going up against over 311 million Americans.


On the first day. And fewer than that on the second, and even fewer than that on the third, and so forth.
   521. Booey Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4067588)
since we're on the topic of zombies, what are people's thoughts of "i am legend"?

Good movie, but the pointlessly computer animated zombie/vampire creatures really bothered me. Unnecessary computer animation is one of my biggest movie pet peeves; special effects have come a long way, but they're still not anywhere near the point where they look more realistic than actors in costumes and makeup, as The Lord of the Rings trilogy or any zombie or vampire movie other than I Am Legend can prove.
   522. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:13 PM (#4067589)
Going up against over 311 million Americans. It would be a minor nuisance that eventually society would create something to deal with the issue.


I'm not sure how killing several million ravenous reanimated dead qualifies as a minor nuisance.

Yeah, if 150 million Americans all became zombies at once North America would have a serious short term problem but it wouldn't wipe out the human specie nor create the end of the species in North America.


It would be nearly impossible for an outbreak of reanimation to completely overwhelm humanity under nearly any scenario simply because the reanimated literally fall apart over time. That doesn't mean those first few years wouldn't result in a complete breakdown of centralized control and massive chaos, not unlike that observed in "The Walking Dead".
   523. cardsfanboy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:16 PM (#4067592)
in the sense that you basically have to destroy their brains or decapitate them

Why does this stop them if they're dead? Isn't the "pathogen" controlling their movements?


Because the brain controls the movement of the body. The pathogen may have changed the motivations of the person infected, but it still needs the tools to make it function. It's not like this is unheard of in the natural world.
   524. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:23 PM (#4067599)
By the way, Cracked did a pretty good job of explaining why a zombie apocalypse would most likely fail miserably.


Oh, well, that's just ducky. When the reanimated dead are shambling down your street craving the brains of the living you can bet Sylvester P. Smythe will cover your ass.
   525. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:24 PM (#4067603)


Or it follows you, and because you stopped running, it catches and eats you. Or you just accidentally rounded a corner into a dead end, and then the one that was coming the other direction catches and eats you.


And this is going to cause the end of humanity?

Go ahead and try and kill a zombie with fire, or electricity, or a gunshot to the abdomen, or a garotte, or poison, or hard vacuum, or drowning, or...

You know almost all of those things you mentioned would either eventually kill kill the zombie or severely impair it. But the thing is even if I fail to kill a zombie with a gunshot to the torso that doesn't mean I die or that the zombie becomes more aggressive or smarter or any of that.

I'm pretty sure people are NOT going to understand that, since they have a whole lifetime of knowing that things like that are impossible. It's like hearing that the president was gored to death by a unicorn.

Do you think it is 1820? Or do you think zombies are going to be like bigfoot? A real zombie attack isn't going to be some fairy tale you tell at bedtime. Yeah, sure the first couple of attacks probably won't get huge coverage but the 30th, 40th and so one will get huge coverage.

No, why would you assume that? You aren't allowed to shoot individual rioters without provocation, just because there's a bunch of them. A cop sees two guys rolling around on the ground, the first trying to punch the second, the second trying to bite the first, and he's going to reach for his taser, not start aiming for headshots.


Zombies don't move at the speed of light. They are easily subdued by a human being or two. They are not this unstoppable force that you try to portray them as and humans beings are not as stupid and defenseless as you try to make us out as. You think some cop is going to simply give up because tasering the guy didn't work? Do they do that now?

Maybe the school's next to a mortuary. Or a cemetery. Or Mrs. O'Reilly was a shut-in and nobody found her for six months after she expired, until a Jehovah's Witness happened to try the front door, much to his dismay. Who knows?

And this is going to cause humanity to be wiped out? That somehow somewhere there will be a mortuary next to a school that for some reason leaves corpses unattended enough to the point that the corpse will be grotesquely rotting away and somehow slipped out the door and then work its way into an assembly full of kids that somehow trapped themselves in the gym so that this rotting corpse bites hundreds of them?


If you're having this much trouble accepting the idea of a zombie having rotten parts, what does that say about the ability of the average person to conceptualize the idea of walking, ravenous corpses right in the moment when they first see one?


I'm having trouble believing that some zombie is going to be around long enough to be visibly rotting away and yet society isn't aware of the zombie problem to the point that the zombie could simply shamble into a school assembly.

How's that cure for AIDS coming? We've only been working on it for what, 30 years now?

I know. 99% of the world's population must have AIDS by now and hundreds of millions of people are dying from AIDS each day.

Something doesn't need to have a mind to be a significant danger. Hurricanes don't have minds. Neither do viruses. They just do what they do to anyone who ends up in their path.

A zombie is a danger to anyone in its path but its path isn't 5,000 sq miles and a zombie doesn't have the force of several nuclear bombs. A single zombie's kill zone is about 2 to 3 feet in front of it.
   526. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:25 PM (#4067605)
On the first day. And fewer than that on the second, and even fewer than that on the third, and so forth.

And yet we won't be able to kill any of the zombies.
   527. Gamingboy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4067609)
And none of that changes the fact that human beings are incredibly resourceful, have an incredible amount of resources that can be brought to bear...



How's that cure for AIDS coming? We've only been working on it for what, 30 years now?


While I'm not going to say that you are wrong, there's a major difference between AIDS and assorted other things and any Zombie viruses. Hint: AIDS takes awhile to kill people. People with zombie-disease are (un)dead in a few days. So something like Zombie-disease would get money and resources FAR more quickly and in far greater number. This, of course, assumes it is a "slow-burn" outbreak and not a "wake up in the morning and the dead have risen" scenario.
   528. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4067610)
That doesn't mean those first few years wouldn't result in a complete breakdown of centralized control and massive chaos, not unlike that observed in "The Walking Dead"..

First few years? The only way this becomes a serious long term problem is if the zombies win and if they win we're dead. You'll need some sort of event that turns billions of us into zombie at the same time for this happen. There are almost 7 billion people on this planet. Several million zombies spread out throughout the globe is not going to bring civilization crashing down.
   529. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4067615)
Several million zombies spread out throughout the globe is not going to bring civilization crashing down.


Well it depends on how many million we're talking about and how they're distributed wouldn't it? A massive global pandemic that churns out 500 million reanimated just from direct mortality is going to make a pretty big mess under the best case scenarios. Maybe lethality is higher amongst the youngest and healthiest, as was the case with the 1918 pandemic, so you aren't losing a representative sample of a population but rather the subset most likely to be tasked with combating the insatiable abominations occupying streets across the nation. Well now your eggs are in a real scramble, and Alfred E. Newman won't be there to help you.
   530. Cowboy Popup Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4067623)
Archer turned in a hell of an episode tonight!
   531. McCoy Posted: February 23, 2012 at 11:59 PM (#4067625)
Archer turned in a hell of an episode tonight!

I was kind of disappointed by it. It would have been a very good earlier episode but this season has been so fantastic that it comes up short.
   532. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4067626)
And this is going to cause the end of humanity?


After it happens to the majority of people? Yes.

You know almost all of those things you mentioned would either eventually kill kill the zombie or severely impair it.


Not in the world of The Walking Dead, they don't.

But the thing is even if I fail to kill a zombie with a gunshot to the torso that doesn't mean I die...


If the zombie was within arm's reach of you, then yes, it probably does.

Yeah, sure the first couple of attacks probably won't get huge coverage but the 30th, 40th and so one will get huge coverage.


No, they won't. They'll be brushed aside as hoaxes or hallucinations or something else, because people know that the dead can't come back to life, so they'll resist evidence to the contrary. If there are photos, people will say that they're 'shopped. If there's video, people will say that it's all special effects.

They are easily subdued by a human being or two.


Who in the process probably get bitten by the zombie, since they don't know any better about how dangerous zombie bites are.

In every one of your responses, you fail to understand how people with no pre-conceived ideas about zombies would react to the appearance of a zombie. People aren't going to automatically know how zombies work, and in the process of finding out, a lot of them are going to make fatal errors.

You think some cop is going to simply give up because tasering the guy didn't work?


No. I think he's going to go in and try and use physical force. Maybe a nightstick, maybe bare hands with some aikido or judo or whatever. Either way, he probably gets bitten in turn, because he doesn't understand what the hell he's up against.

And this is going to cause humanity to be wiped out?


Repeat it several thousand times on the first day, and several thousand times on the day after that, increasing every day thereafter, and yes. That's what's going to happen.

I'm having trouble believing that some zombie is going to be around long enough to be visibly rotting away and yet society isn't aware of the zombie problem to the point that the zombie could simply shamble into a school assembly.


A body is going to start showing significant bruising from lividity after half a day, and going to start visible decomp maybe two or three days after death. So if someone died after school on a Friday, they'd be a pretty ghastly sight by the start of classes on Monday morning.

I know. 99% of the world's population must have AIDS by now and hundreds of millions of people are dying from AIDS each day.


How's that cure for cancer coming along?

A single zombie's kill zone is about 2 to 3 feet in front of it.


A single zombie is also constantly moving. And there isn't just one zombie. There are 7,000+ new ones every day in America alone.
   533. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4067627)
Well now your eggs are in a real scramble, and Alfred E. Newman won't be there to help you.

Except everything Cracked said still holds.

Yeah, 500 million people suddenly turning into zombies is going to be serious but that is still just about 8% of the world's population and these zombies will still have a short shelf life. Something like I am Legend is much more problematical than the dead walking again.
   534. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4067628)
And yet we won't be able to kill any of the zombies.


Again: People will be able to kill some, but they can reproduce a lot more quickly and easily than people can, and human losses will be substantial until the knowledge of what zombies are and how they work becomes widely disseminated.
   535. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4067630)
Archer turned in a hell of an episode tonight!

I was kind of disappointed by it. It would have been a very good earlier episode but this season has been so fantastic that it comes up short.

I was hoping it would be a sort of parody of Justified (which I also love), and it... sort of was. I think I overhyped it to myself, so I don't think I enjoyed as much as I hoped, but I still liked it pretty well.

Archer talking to animals will never not be hilarious.
   536. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:07 AM (#4067631)
Something like I am Legend{/em] is much more problematical than the dead walking again.


Well sure, anything that gives Will Smith continued employment is problematical.
   537. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:16 AM (#4067638)
Let me try and put this another way, McCoy.

You're walking down the street in Las Vegas, and on a corner, you see a guy wearing a cape and a top hat, with a large crowd around him. While you're watching, he runs a sword right through the neck of a woman, who appears to be locked inside a set of boxes, some of which are opened so that you can see different parts of her body.

Even after he shoved the sword through her neck, she's still smiling and winking and pursing her lips at the crowd. Do you assume that the man's an escaped lunatic who just decapitated an innocent girl? Or that she's a re-animated corpse who can't be killed by a sword to the neck?

Of course not. You assume that it's a magic act, and you either stop to watch or keep on walking, because you "know" that she's not really dead (or un-dead). You see something that violates the nature of reality, and your brain doesn't respond by rejecting reality. It gropes around for a context in which the thing that you saw makes sense and fits your perception of reality.
   538. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:18 AM (#4067640)
After it happens to the majority of people? Yes.

Yes, this is going to happen to over 3 billion people. 3 billion people are going to turn one corner and then another and then stop and do nothing so a zombie can bite them but only bite them enough to infect and still give them full mobility so once they turn they too can shuffle along and find someone who has turned two corners and then stopped.

Not in the world of The Walking Dead, they don't.


We haven't really seen them try. Why wouldn't fire damage the brain? Why wouldn't electricity? A gunshot wound to the legs or torso will and does reduce zombie's mobility on the show.

If the zombie was within arm's reach of you, then yes, it probably does.

I beginning to think you don't know how guns work.



No, they won't. They'll be brushed aside as hoaxes or hallucinations or something else, because people know that the dead can't come back to life, so they'll resist evidence to the contrary. If there are photos, people will say that they're 'shopped. If there's video, people will say that it's all special effects.


This is ridiculous. Like, stick your head in the sand ridiculous. So you believe the zombie apocalypse will get ignored until when? 40 million zombies in America? 1 billion zombies in the world?


Who in the process probably get bitten by the zombie, since they don't know any better about how dangerous zombie bites are.

In every one of your responses, you fail to understand how people with no pre-conceived ideas about zombies would react to the appearance of a zombie. People aren't going to automatically know how zombies work, and in the process of finding out, a lot of them are going to make fatal errors.


So they get bit. They then get sick and then eventually die from it. Now then human beings don't simply wander off to a cave to die. They go to a hospital. They have people around them. They get worse and then they die. They then come back and try to eat their fellow human beings. This isn't going to go unnoticed and again it is extremely hard to bite people that don't want to be bitten and when you yourself are a mindless bag with teeth.


Repeat it several thousand times on the first day, and several thousand times on the day after that, increasing every day thereafter, and yes. That's what's going to happen.


And again the ratio of zombie deaths to human deaths is going to heavily favor humans.

A body is going to start showing significant bruising from lividity after half a day, and going to start visible decomp maybe two or three days after death. So if someone died after school on a Friday, they'd be a pretty ghastly sight by the start of classes on Monday morning.


But yet this corpse has full mobility, was never noticed over the weekend, somehow escaped noticed all throughout the school day and then arrived on the scene once there was an assembly. Then once at the assembly everybody in the room decided to turn into a mindless bag of panic while the zombie systematically went about biting hundreds of individuals. Yeah, this is going to happen a lot.


How's that cure for cancer coming along?


I know, every day the amount of people with cancer doubles or triples and any day now everybody on the planet will be dead from cancer.


A single zombie is also constantly moving. And there isn't just one zombie. There are 7,000+ new ones every day in America alone.


All with a kill zone only two or three feet in front of it. Meanwhile human beings can kill from hundreds of miles away. Also there wouldn't be 7,000 new zombies each day from normal deaths since human beings would quickly adapt to the new situation. Again, human beings do not crawl off into a cave to die. We get sick, we get old, we go to hospitals, we have people around us.
   539. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM (#4067642)
Again: People will be able to kill some, but they can reproduce a lot more quickly and easily than people can, and human losses will be substantial until the knowledge of what zombies are and how they work becomes widely disseminated.

And zombies are put down a lot easier than human beings are.
   540. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:20 AM (#4067643)
Archer turned in a hell of an episode tonight!
i didn't think it was one of their best.

   541. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4067644)
Let me try and put this another way, McCoy.

You're walking down the street in Las Vegas, and on a corner, you see a guy wearing a cape and a top hat, with a large crowd around him. While you're watching, he runs a sword right through the neck of a woman, who appears to be locked inside a set of boxes, some of which are opened so that you can see different parts of her body.

Even after he shoved the sword through her neck, she's still smiling and winking and pursing her lips at the crowd. Do you assume that the man's an escaped lunatic who just decapitated an innocent girl? Or that she's a re-animated corpse who can't be killed by a sword to the neck?

Of course not. You assume that it's a magic act, and you either stop to watch or keep on walking, because you "know" that she's not really dead (or un-dead). You see something that violates the nature of reality, and your brain doesn't respond by rejecting reality. It gropes around for a context in which the thing that you saw makes sense and fits your perception of reality.


Some rotting corpse tearing the flesh off of a screaming human being who is struggling fiercely and screaming for help is not going to get chalked up as "MAGIC!"
   542. Dale Sams Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4067646)
(Insert Will Smith defense)
   543. cardsfanboy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4067647)
Well sure, anything that gives Will Smith continued employment is problematical.


I think there are easily 50 other names I would like to see never work again ahead of Will Smith. He at least picks enjoyable movies. (off the top of my head is of course the two Bens--Stiller and Afleck, pretty much everyone who has appeared in Twilight, A Disney Dance movie, Tyler Perry, 90% of the action stars after their 5th movie, been on American Idol, the kid from holes, anyone who was ever a professional wrestler, the people who are pretending to be DeNiro and Pacino, Johny Depp, Ashton, Mickey Rourke, Adam Sandler(unfortunately) etc. and I'm sure with two more minutes of thinking I could come up with even more.)

   544. Jay Z Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:33 AM (#4067649)
Can a zombie locate a living human other than by sight? If there are no living humans around does the zombie just head off in a random direction? If the zombie is near a body of water, is it as likely to walk into the water as on land? Does a zombie know how to locate a bridge?

Could a zombie or many zombies be lured into a stadium by something that looks human but isn't (mannequin, hologram, whatever), where they could be dispatched at leisure? I am guessing that would be a key line of defense with zombies, just lure them away with a movie screen. Or a mirror.

From the Cracked article, if animals can bite zombies without becoming zombies themselves, the zombies would be gone in short order. Really, a zombie animal is a lot scarier than a zombie human. Animals can just do so many more things innately. Humans have to learn just about everything beyond walking. Humans without a brain ain't much.




   545. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:37 AM (#4067651)
and again, i've gotta give a shoutout to "i just want my pants back". it's easily up in the 2nd tier of my favorite shows, alongside dexter, the walking dead, it's always sunny, and breaking bad.
   546. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4067652)
Can a zombie locate a living human other than by sight?

In The Walking Dead the zombies react to sound as well and they appear to be able to smell also but that might just have been a talent created so they could create the scene of Rick being covered in zombie parts. Since it has never come up again.

As far as animals I know the zombies will go after live animals but I seem to recall seeing that the animals didn't care to go after the zombies but I'm sure they would definitely try to defend themselves and I don't know what insects and carrion animals would do. There are plenty of animals out there that wouldn't think twice about eating rotting and infected meat.
   547. Dale Sams Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:44 AM (#4067654)
Like Lost and Jehrico, I'd feel a lot more inclined to watch Walking Dead if I felt they were approaching it as..well...'realisticlly'..as they could. I've been grilling my wife about the show, and it seems to suffer from Dramaticas Dumbassius. There's a mystery here, yet no one seems particularly inclined to share with each other info. The guy who woke up in the hospital has a perfect excuse, but what about everyone else?

Lost, I wanted to be more like Cast Away. It drove me nuts when they took forever to come up with the brilliant idea of actually WALKING AROUND THE ISLAND. You know, there might have been a resort on the other side. And of course there were sappy Abrams musical montages to wade through. One time they were playing some Willie Nelson tune and panning around the actors sitting solemnly around the campfire, and I SO wanted the camera to pan past Willie sitting there playing his guitar.

Jehrico was just ####### hopeless the second I saw they had a beautiful, blind girl. Which was my other beef with Lost. I grew up with shows that had ugly character actors. Lost looked like a plane of models had crashed. Literally in the case of Maggie Grace and Ian Summerholder. At least they were killed off.
   548. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:08 AM (#4067666)

Jehrico was just ####### hopeless the second I saw they had a beautiful, blind girl.
wasn't she deaf?


and i thought the thing about jericho was that, even though the country around them was going to ####, they retained some level of normalcy within their insular community.


   549. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:14 AM (#4067668)
Somebody mentioned a guilty pleasure love for Jericho about a year or two back so I downloaded it. It was terrible. I think I watched maybe 6 or so episodes before deleting the show and by the 3rd or 4th episode it was a chore to watch the entire episode.
   550. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:28 AM (#4067675)
3 billion people are going to turn one corner and then another and then stop and do nothing so a zombie can bite them but only bite them enough to infect and still give them full mobility so once they turn they too can shuffle along and find someone who has turned two corners and then stopped.


Some of them will also get partially eaten. Not that it really matters much - once a person's dead, he's dead, and then undead.

Why wouldn't fire damage the brain?


Because it's on the inside of a bunch of ablative meat and bone?

I beginning to think you don't know how guns work.


I do, but the vast majority of people don't. And even a lot of the ones that do don't have a loaded one with them most of the time. And even the ones who do happen to have a loaded one with them the first time they run across a zombie are going to shoot a lot less accurately against an actual threat than they do under controlled circumstances at a range, because that's how stress works.

So you believe the zombie apocalypse will get ignored until when? 40 million zombies in America? 1 billion zombies in the world?


I believe that in the hypothetical world where a zombie apocalypse happened, the spread of zombies would be nothing but a rumor until society no longer had the ability to accurately estimate how many zombies there were.

They get worse and then they die. They then come back and try to eat their fellow human beings. This isn't going to go unnoticed...


It gets noticed, and then probably treated as an unknown illness leading to dementia or psychosis. People are going to be extremely reluctant to believe in "zombies", because they violate all the rules of the known universe.

a mindless bag with teeth


Doctors don't treat people as "mindless", even when they are: Coma patients, people with extreme brain damage, fetuses before the stage of neural differentiation, etc. They'd probably treat zombies the same way as any of those others.

And again the ratio of zombie deaths to human deaths is going to heavily favor humans.


You keep saying that, and it keeps right on not being true. Zombies are much, much tougher to "kill" than humans are.

But yet this corpse has full mobility, was never noticed over the weekend, somehow escaped noticed all throughout the school day and then arrived on the scene once there was an assembly. Then once at the assembly everybody in the room decided to turn into a mindless bag of panic while the zombie systematically went about biting hundreds of individuals. Yeah, this is going to happen a lot.


That was an example of a set of circumstances, not the only method by which a zombie might happen upon a large group of people with no easy ability to escape.

If you don't think that most people would panic when confronted by a stinking, rotting, biting, ambulatory corpse, then I really don't know what else to say. You must not understand people very well.

I know, every day the amount of people with cancer doubles or triples and any day now everybody on the planet will be dead from cancer.


Compared to the problem of exterminating millions of zombies, curing a mere disease should be child's play. Yet cancer is still as prevalent as ever, in spite of all the time and resources that have been devoted to the problem.

All with a kill zone only two or three feet in front of it. Meanwhile human beings can kill from hundreds of miles away.


If a zombie moves at three miles an hour (normal not-too-fast walking speed), it's covering more than 70 miles a day, since it never needs to stop or rest. That gives it a huge potential operating range.

Meanwhile, humans have psychological inhibitions against killing things that look and act like other humans, unless they feel that they have no other choice. If you're on your way to the corner store, and a stinky old man starts groaning and stumbling in your general direction, you aren't going to just pull out your .45 and start blasting away at him, unless you're a psychopath. You're going to assume that he's a drunk or a vagrant, and probably not pay him much mind until he's practically on top of you. Americans are GOOD at not noticing homeless people, when they don't want to see them. And then when he IS right on top of you, and you go to defend yourself, you assume that he's going to try to rob or rape you, not tear off pieces of your flesh with his teeth and give you a fatal blood infection.

I really can't re-iterate this enough: Your model is flawed because you assume that the people in the scenario understand what zombies are and how they should be treated, even though they have no knowledge of those things whatsoever.

Some rotting corpse tearing the flesh off of a screaming human being who is struggling fiercely and screaming for help is not going to get chalked up as "MAGIC!"


Of course not. You'd probably assume that they were filming a horror movie instead, or LARPing, or playing a joke on a friend. Your mind isn't going to make the immediate jump to "OMG zombies are real!!!1!1" because you don't even know what a zombie is, and if someone explained the concept to you, you'd know from past experience that such things aren't possible.
   551. CrosbyBird Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:43 AM (#4067683)
In every one of your responses, you fail to understand how people with no pre-conceived ideas about zombies would react to the appearance of a zombie. People aren't going to automatically know how zombies work, and in the process of finding out, a lot of them are going to make fatal errors.

The real enemy is chaos. There's a big assumption that humanity will band together and work in concert, and I don't see that happening. Some people are going to be in denial. Some people are going to be fighting over food. Some people are going to be protesting government action. Some people are going to insist that it's a curable disease. Some people are just going to be reckless.

I also don't see how one-on-one, human-vs-zombie, is a win for the human without serious weapons. Zombies don't feel pain, and they don't feel fear. Hit a person with a bat and you've got a decent shot of seriously impairing them: you might hurt them badly enough to scare them off, you might break a limb, or you might knock them unconscious. To kill a zombie with a bat you need to break open the skull and pulverize the brain. And you need to do that while it is trying its hardest to bite you.

And plenty of Americans will be seriously disadvantaged. Over a third of us are obese and many are in bad shape. We've got maybe 15-20% of the population at an advanced enough age that they probably can't really run. Millions of children too.

Also, the zombies aren't exactly mindless. They're single-minded. There's a real difference there.
   552. CrosbyBird Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:02 AM (#4067694)
I do, but the vast majority of people don't. And even a lot of the ones that do don't have a loaded one with them most of the time. And even the ones who do happen to have a loaded one with them the first time they run across a zombie are going to shoot a lot less accurately against an actual threat than they do under controlled circumstances at a range, because that's how stress works.

I expect a lot of people are going to shoot themselves or other survivors, too. I don't think it's so strange to have never fired a gun, and there's not much time to learn.

I imagine that I'd have a lot of trouble surviving out in the world. I've never fired a gun, and I live in Manhattan where it's very hard to get a gun or bullets. I'm not sickly but I'm not in great shape. I'm not a pacifist but I have practically no fighting ability outside of being big and reasonably strong because of my size. I'd probably try to hole up in my apartment, but I live in Manhattan and without new deliveries, we're running out of food pretty quickly here. I remember how hard it was to buy batteries before that hurricane warning, and that was one weekend worth of high demand.
   553. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:08 AM (#4067698)
This was such a promising thread, and now it's equivalent to watching my pre-teen nephews argue about pokemons.

Well sure, anything that gives Will Smith continued employment is problematical.

You are dead to me. Deader than a redneck zombie.
   554. Jay Z Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:33 AM (#4067734)
It gets noticed, and then probably treated as an unknown illness leading to dementia or psychosis. People are going to be extremely reluctant to believe in "zombies", because they violate all the rules of the known universe.


But that's not true in the zombie universe. In fact, if zombies are possible, they probably would have happened before. People would treat zombies like they treat rabid dogs.
   555. Weekly Journalist Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4067738)
You guys know there's an academic article on the likelihood of a zombie apocalypse, right?

http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rsmith43/Zombies.pdf
   556. zonk Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:55 AM (#4067743)

The real enemy is chaos. There's a big assumption that humanity will band together and work in concert, and I don't see that happening. Some people are going to be in denial. Some people are going to be fighting over food. Some people are going to be protesting government action. Some people are going to insist that it's a curable disease. Some people are just going to be reckless.


Precisely... It's not us vs. zombies ---

It's you vs. zombies + the criminal who wants to rape your wife now that cops aren't around + the survivalist who decides he needs your land rover + the starving Shane who wants your food + the nice family who didn't tell anyone their daughter was bitten yesterday but is still with them + the army colonel who's gotten drunk with power + nature which is no longer technologically kept at bay, with its poison monkeys and such.



Another vote for Jericho - Wasn't half bad... I'd netflix it if I hadn't watched it, but not really so great as to want watch it again. Perfectly cromulent TV.
   557. SouthSideRyan Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4067763)
I saw the Crazies last month after having it for a few months. Didn't realize it was a zombie-like movie. For some reason I thought it was that movie about the rednecks who kidnap some family and eff with them a bunch.


You were thinking of the Strangers which came out around the same time.
   558. BDC Posted: February 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4067780)
Everybody's speculating about zombies, but you just have to watch an Astros' game to realize they actually exist.
   559. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4067785)

Precisely... It's not us vs. zombies ---


The only way it gets to chaos level where society is breaking down is if billions of people turn into zombies at once. If 155,000 people around the globe have the potential to turn into a zombie each day society will not breakdown. You guys keep picturing the end of the zombie apocalypse as if that is how it is going to be from the very beginning.
   560. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4067801)
But that's not true in the zombie universe. In fact, if zombies are possible, they probably would have happened before.


We know that it IS true in the specific zombie universe of The Walking Dead, because we saw part of Rick's life as a cop before he went into the hospital, and none of it involved shooting zombies. We also saw his shock and confusion and horror once he discovered what had happened while he was unconscious, none of which would have been the case if putting down the occasional zombie were a normal part of his pre-injury routine.
   561. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4067811)


The only way it gets to chaos level where society is breaking down is if billions of people turn into zombies at once.


Or you ramp up the zombies. If they can run as fast as Usain Bolt for days on end, untiringly, if they have the tracking ability of a bloodhound, if they hunt in packs, if they have the strength of ten men, if when you shoot them in the head a fine mist of infectious microbes is scattered, any one of which can be inhaled and infect a bystander, if people can be infected days or weeks before zombifying, and one of the early symptoms of being infected is having a deep desire to shoot zombies and kill them (so you have to kill anyone exhibiting such symptoms immediately), matters are different.
   562. Davo Dozier Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4067812)
"Somebody mentioned a guilty pleasure love for Jericho about a year or two back so I downloaded it. It was terrible. I think I watched maybe 6 or so episodes before deleting the show and by the 3rd or 4th episode it was a chore to watch the entire episode."

"Jericho" is, for me, pretty much the only example of a show that I watched to completion--and enjoyed--despite undeniably falling into the "so bad it's good" camp. In that respect, it's probably the funniest show I've ever seen.
   563. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:06 PM (#4067814)
I *loved* the final ep of BSG. LOVED it. More than anything so I could see all the agnostic dipshits blow a gasket.
I'm reaching way back with this, but: I don't understand this. Why would an agnostic hate the ending? (Says an agnostic who liked the ending in large part because I felt they had earned the right to go there.)

Did you mean atheist?
   564. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4067815)
I'll second or third whomever said Frisky Dingo was awesome. Great little unknown show that had a very short run.
   565. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:14 PM (#4067826)
Go ahead and try and kill a zombie with fire, or electricity, or a gunshot to the abdomen, or a garotte, or poison, or hard vacuum, or drowning, or...

If the pathogen is controlling the body through the brain, all those things will kill the zombie.

The brain will still need oxygen to function; take away the blood, or shock the heart into not functioning, the body stops.

The zombie needs to be alive. The pathogen may have short circuited the thinking functions of the brain, but all the other bodily functions must still work.
   566. Davo Dozier Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4067828)
Also: This zombie discussion has been the best thing I've read in a long time.
   567. Dale Sams Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4067843)
I'm reaching way back with this, but: I don't understand this. Why would an agnostic hate the ending? (Says an agnostic who liked the ending in large part because I felt they had earned the right to go there.)

Did you mean atheist?


Yeah, I guess that doesn't make much sense.
   568. zenbitz Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4067846)
I think you probably need a continent wide kill of of 50% ish (via zombie, nuke, plaugue, comet) in a matter of a few weeks to really collapse infrastructure. If it doesnt happen world wide then the rest of the world gets you back online in a couple years (if they want to and you are not quarenteened)
   569. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:38 PM (#4067848)
The brain will still need oxygen to function; take away the blood, or shock the heart into not functioning, the body stops.


Not true, at least within the particular universe under discussion. They've showed severed heads re-animating in the comic, even though they weren't connected to lungs or a circulatory system of any kind.
   570. Davo Dozier Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:40 PM (#4067850)
What I find most fascinating is the so-far-unspoken realization that OUR GENERATION would be uniquely prepared to survive a zombie apocalypse, because we're so familiar with the idea of zombie-ism, with all the movies and books about them. I mean:

On Day Zero, people aren't going to start out knowing jack ####. And people are very good at not believing things that they know to be impossible, even when the evidence is staring them right in the face.

You know, if the Nielsen Ratings are true, males aged 20-39 sure as hell aren't going to start off knowing jack #### about what's going on.
   571. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4067852)
Lisa needs braces!
   572. Kyle S at work Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:44 PM (#4067855)
The Grantland Youtube HOF was Simpsons clips today. There are some great memories here: Best. Simpsons Moments. Ever.
   573. Gamingboy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 12:58 PM (#4067870)
How's that cure for cancer coming along?


The thing with Cancer is that it's NOT a single thing. It's a type of disease, a class of diseases, whatever, NOT a single disease. And there are cures for some types of cancer. The HPV Vaccine, for example, stops the virus that can cause cervical cancer (there are some other, rarer ways that cervical cancer can develop, but HPV is the main way). This is true with most types of diseases: the Common Cold can come from a bunch of things, there are many different kinds of flu, there are two known species of HIV (the main one is HIV-1), etc.
   574. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4067874)
The thing with Cancer is that it's NOT a single thing. It's a type of disease, a class of diseases, whatever, NOT a single disease. And there are cures for some types of cancer.


Maybe there are different types of zombies, too. How do we know?
   575. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4067881)
Not true, at least within the particular universe under discussion. They've showed severed heads re-animating in the comic, even though they weren't connected to lungs or a circulatory system of any kind.

I'm talking reality.

Aquaman is in a comic book too.
   576. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4067888)


Maybe there are different types of zombies, too. How do we know?


Well, if we are basing it off The Walking Dead then there are only two types of zombies. Those that move around and those that are sedentary.



SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER
In the later issues of The Walking Dead the gang finds a small little walled community with something like 30 or so survivors living there. Women, children, men and such with none of them having any kind of military training whatsoever. Only two people in the whole group have had any kind of training before all of this happened.
SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER
This little group of people get swarmed by the zombie horde. The ratio of zombies to humans is something like 30 to 50 to 1 yet armed only with a handful of small arms, a sword, and some blunt instruments the group is able to wipe out the zombies while taking very few casualties despite being confined to a very small area while being completely surrounded and not having all of the group fight or have the group organized in anyway.
SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER
It has gotten to the point now where the group isn't really even concerned about zombies anymore. Zombies have become a minor threat to the group.
SPOILERSPOILERSPOILER

Yet somehow zombies have wiped out billions and billions of human beings. The military in pitched battles against the zombies lose time after time (as we saw in the Atlanta flashback scene this season and the debris in the first season) when in reality the military would mow down the zombies. Hell, in NYC alone a small group of soldiers could probably clear NYC of the roamers in a matter of weeks by simply sitting off shore and drawing the zombies to them while the navy and air force bomb the crap out of them.
   577. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4067894)
I'm talking reality.

Aquaman is in a comic book too.


I think that is part of the problem. In a real world scenario I'm not viewing zombies as these magical creatures that defy all that is known about organisms. I'm treating zombies as a viral infection that does X thus things like rotting, the heat, the cold, the military, human intelligence, and such are going to be big factors against zombies.
   578. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:33 PM (#4067906)
Yet somehow zombies have wiped out billions and billions of human beings. The military in pitched battles against the zombies lose time after time (as we saw in the Atlanta flashback scene this season and the debris in the first season) when in reality the military would mow down the zombies.


My guess, from seeing that, would be that zombies were much more effective and damaging before the people of that world had figured out what they were and how to fight them. Rick and the other survivors are benefiting from the wisdom acquired in their recent experiences.

In a real world scenario I'm not viewing zombies as these magical creatures that defy all that is known about organisms. I'm treating zombies as a viral infection that does X thus things like rotting, the heat, the cold, the military, human intelligence, and such are going to be big factors against zombies.


Well, we have to define terms, I guess. That's why I've been trying to stick within the universe of the Walking Dead, because the exact nature of zombies varies so much from creator to creator.
   579. Fanshawe Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4067909)
I'm talking reality.


So you're saying that a story in which Zombies have wiped out much of America's poplulation and society has begun reverting to tribalism might not actually be a 100% faithful retelling of true events?
   580. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4067913)
Rick and the other survivors are benefiting from the wisdom acquired in their recent experiences.

It took the survivors less than a week to figure out that head shots kill the zombies and absolutely none of the survivors actually took part in any battle or coordinated fight against zombies. The survivors are the ones that fled and had the least amount of contact with the zombies.

Well, we have to define terms, I guess. That's why I've been trying to stick within the universe of the Walking Dead, because the exact nature of zombies varies so much from creator to creator.

And I am sticking with The Walking Dead as well. In TWD zombies are effected by the heat and by the cold. They rot, get constantly outsmarted, and get easily mowed down by any kind of organized effort against them.
   581. Dale Sams Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4067934)
Hell, in NYC alone


I didn't see the new POTA movie, so I don't know what really happened, but that was my beef with the trailer. "Oh, no! The apes have the high ground on the armed policemen! What will the guys with guns do??"

   582. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4067939)
It's you vs. zombies + the criminal who wants to rape your wife now that cops aren't around + the survivalist who decides he needs your land rover + the starving Shane who wants your food + the nice family who didn't tell anyone their daughter was bitten yesterday but is still with them + the army colonel who's gotten drunk with power + nature which is no longer technologically kept at bay, with its poison monkeys and such.

Yep. When Amazing GF & I were checking our quake kits recently, we realized we should probably have at least a couple of good-sized knives to carry around. I don't hold it against people, exactly: if I was starving & saw somebody else with a big backpack full of supplies, I can't say for sure what I'd do. SF is water on three sides & we can't count on either bridge being passable after another Big One, so the plan is basically, Grab Our Bags and Walk South, and quickly get as far away from SF as possible. It's going to be ugly here for awhile. Even without zombies.
   583. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4067948)
Yep. When Amazing GF & I were checking our quake kits recently, we realized we should probably have at least a couple of good-sized knives to carry around. I don't hold it against people, exactly: if I was starving & saw somebody else with a big backpack full of supplies, I can't say for sure what I'd do. SF is water on three sides & we can't count on either bridge being passable after another Big One, so the plan is basically, Grab Our Bags and Walk South, and quickly get as far away from SF as possible. It's going to be ugly here for awhile. Even without zombies.

You ever heard the old line about bringing a knife to a gunfight?

If you are thinking ahead enough to stockpile food and bottled water, you should probably just stay put, unless there is some imminent danger to your home (e.g. fire).

Even if you have a gun, out in the open, you are vulnerable to predatory groups. With a single shotgun, in a house, no one is going to mess with you.
   584. hokieneer Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4067952)
#582,

Yes, some weapon that can be used for self defense and potentially hunting is a great addition to a bug-out bag. It's also recommend to have a smaller pocket knife or mutli-tool as well.

Also make sure you have at least 2-3 ways to start a fire and multiple sources water or purification (ie have a few bottles in your bag + means to purify more).
   585. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4067961)
Even if you have a gun, out in the open, you are vulnerable to predatory groups. With a single shotgun, in a house, no one is going to mess with you.

It's an old 12-story apartment building, downtown. My apartment's on the middle floor, hers is in the basement. All plans are contingent upon the building neither going sideways nor pancaking. And, obviously, if we're not here, we're not going to be able to get in to get our stuff anyway. Just have to do our best with what we've got.
   586. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4067972)
It's an old 12-story apartment building, downtown. My apartment's on the middle floor, hers is in the basement. All plans are contingent upon the building neither going sideways nor pancaking. And, obviously, if we're not here, we're not going to be able to get in to get our stuff anyway. Just have to do our best with what we've got.

True.

I'm just saying, if it's at all feasible, holing up in one place is likely to be much safer than wandering about trying to get to "safety".

If you have water, you can last a loooooong time w/o food. And you can survive on <1 quart per person per day, especially if you are inactive.

Even in a major earthquake, there are going to be tens of thousands of rescuers coming to get you.
   587. Ryan Lind Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:03 PM (#4067974)
See, the thing about zombies is that they don't exist. So therefore, they don't exist. That's why there's a problem with them existing: they do not.
   588. hokieneer Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4067984)
I'm just saying, if it's at all feasible, holing up in one place is likely to be much safer than wandering about trying to get to "safety".

Absolutely snapper, but sometimes it's not feasible. There are 2 different emergency scenarios to be prepared for, a "shelter in place" and a "get out of dodge".

If you have water, you can last a loooooong time w/o food. And you can survive on <1 quart per person per day, especially if you are inactive.

Less than a quart is pushing it. I've always thought the bare minimum is 1 liter per day. Hence the need to have some way to produce purified water.
   589. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:20 PM (#4067989)
Less than a quart is pushing it. I've always thought the bare minimum is 1 liter per day. Hence the need to have some way to produce purified water.

Afrika Korps soldiers in WW2 survived on 1 litre per day during the worst of their supply crises. And that's in a freaking desert, while fighting.

In a temperate climate, staying largely inactive, you can survive quite a while on less. It's not good for you, but it won't kill you.

That said, even a small amount of water is quite heavy, >8 lbs/gallon. That's a major reason for staying put.

You can buy 4 of those 5 gallon Poland Spring thingies, and have a month's worth of water for 2 people.
   590. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4067991)
The survivors are the ones that fled and had the least amount of contact with the zombies.


Sounds to me like they learned that avoidance is preferable to direct confrontation. In fact, we WATCHED Rick learn that lesson right in the second episode, when he holed up in the tank.

They rot, get constantly outsmarted, and get easily mowed down by any kind of organized effort against them.


Sure, once you've accepted that they exist, and you've figured out how to kill them. Which is why Rick's people are doing better than the army did right after the outbreak. They know more, and they've had practice at it.
   591. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:44 PM (#4068015)
Sounds to me like they learned that avoidance is preferable to direct confrontation. In fact, we WATCHED Rick learn that lesson right in the second episode, when he holed up in the tank.

My point is that they ran and had the least amount of experience dealing with zombies yet they figured out very quickly how to kill them and how to deal with them. Yet organized and well trained forces fighting them and interacting with them constantly could not learn any of the stuff some scared citizen picks up after 20 minutes of interaction with zombies.

Somehow I think the military could learn rather quickly that they shouldn't send a single soldier on horseback and armed with some small arms into a horde of thousands of zombies.


Sure, once you've accepted that they exist, and you've figured out how to kill them. Which is why Rick's people are doing better than the army did right after the outbreak. They know more, and they've had practice at it.


The armed forces has jets, tanks, helicopters, ships, communcation networks, training on how to work together, and vast amount of resources. If handful of malnourished survivors loosely working together armed only with clubs, some sharp instruments, and some small arms can take down hundreds of zombies at a time while those zombies are in extremely close contact with them then I think soldiers with tanks, bombs, and guns can figure out how to kill them well before it gets to the point that they are all zombies.
   592. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: February 24, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4068020)
See, the thing about zombies is that they don't exist. So therefore, they don't exist. That's why there's a problem with them existing: they do not.
RDF.
   593. Gamingboy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4068025)
There are many different types of zombies, as they are a archtypical figure that has been interpreted differently by different cultures and at different times. Same thing goes for vampires, werewolves, ghosts, angels, demons, mermaids, etc.

Of course, most fictional universes will just have ONE type of zombie, one type of vampire, etc.
   594. Dale Sams Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4068026)
lol. Archer.

How ingenious is it that Sean Hayes plays Jack McBrayer's brother (cousin?) on 30 Rock, and McBrayer plays Gillette's redneck, gay-hating brother on Archer?
   595. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: February 24, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4068031)
Hell, in NYC alone a small group of soldiers could probably clear NYC of the roamers in a matter of weeks by simply sitting off shore and drawing the zombies to them while the navy and air force bomb the crap out of them.


This made me think of another recent zombie novel, Colson Whitehead's Zone One, about a guy in a paramilitary squad that's helping to clear out the stray zombies left in Manhattan after the Marines have gone in and cleared out most of the island. There's not a lot on how the Marines went about things, but the gist of it is that they would drop from a helicopter into an intersection, and the noise would draw the zombies in. The Marines then start shooting and go on until there get to be too many zombies about. Then the Marines are winched back onto the chopper, and go repeat the process a few blocks away. After this work, they send in sweeper units of trained volunteers who go house to house and room to room looking for zombies unable to get out of locked offices and the like.

Overall the novel is pretty annoying, because it goes on and on and on about consumer culture and corporate control and branding and so forth in a way that really isn't interesting and that makes it read like a footnote to Dawn of the Dead and the novels of Don DeLillo (and much of Whitehead's previous work). As in he was attempting to add a second and third level of meaning that aren't necessary, because they've been in the genre since its inception.

There are three good things that I took away from it and will remember. One is that the main character is named Mark Spitz, which is annoying at first but becomes a good joke later on, and with the constant repetition of the name becomes entrancing. Second, the flashback scene in which Mark Spitz discovers that his parents have become zombies has one of the most grotesque images I've ever come across, and Whitehead really needs to be applauded for it. Third, Whitehead adds is a category of zombie I hadn't seen before. Some people turn and don't fully zombify, but rather become automatons carrying a tiny flicker of their previous personality. They basically wander off to some place that has some meaning to their previous lives, and then sit or stand there in one pose, completely oblivious to everything going on around them. One guy leans over a copier he presumably used to fix in a former life, for example. It makes for some occasional eeriness, and in a novel more dedicated to genre could have made for a long string of scenes that could be alternately spooky, touching, and horrifying. But, alas, no.

   596. Something Other Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4068078)
You're also looking at it in too linear a fashion. The big zombie population spikes come from individual cases in extremely densely populated areas, where one zombie is able to locate and infect a bunch of people contained in a given small area in one go, who are all then released at the same time in a group capable of overwhelming even a well-prepared survivor if they stumble into one another. One old janitor has a heart attack in the school basement, and then rises and shambles into the auditorium in the middle of an assembly, and you've got dozens, maybe hundreds, of new infection vectors in one fell swoop. Now, imagine that instead of a school, it's an emergency shelter like the Superdome...


A thorough spread of zombism is much, much more credible in a situation like the train station memory scene in 28 Days Later, where the incubation period is literally seconds, and the infected move like bats out of hell.

In the scenario you describe, Lurching Old Janitor is going to shuffle in and bite little Susie on the neck. Ten year olds are going to run, screaming like little banshees. Lurching Old Janitor might bag a couple of the slower ones during the bottleneck at the exits. The problem, though, is that the dead kids aren't coming back to life any time soon. In TWD, with Andrea's sister, it took many hours for her to turn after she was bitten. What we need is a bite capable of turning someone into a zombie or an infected within seconds, so that they in turn can infect others, who infect others, and so on. That scenario just isn't going to happen in TWD, given the very slow spread of the infection, that it apparently can be spread only through contact, and that the infected take hours to themselves become vectors. You'll have a handful of casualties in the auditorium, the janitor surrounded and subdued or killed, probably up to a half dozen adults and children scratched or bitten in the process, whereupon those injured will be taken to hospitals, treated and monitored.

Fast zombies don't make for as good serial tv as slow zombies, though. I would have preferred it had some more thought been put into the zombie origin story. It's not hard to satisfy some of McCoy's objections in this thread by tinkering with the characteristics of an outbreak nonetheless consistent with slow-twitch zombism. Perhaps radiation raises a whole lot of dead at once, becomes viral as well, the infection is also airborne, ressurection is more or less instantaneous...

Precisely... It's not us vs. zombies ---

It's you vs. zombies + the criminal who wants to rape your wife now that cops aren't around + the survivalist who decides he needs your land rover + the starving Shane who wants your food + the nice family who didn't tell anyone their daughter was bitten yesterday but is still with them + the army colonel who's gotten drunk with power + nature which is no longer technologically kept at bay, with its poison monkeys and such.
Well, well said. All the above will contribute dramatically to the spread of the disease. It puts me in mind of the surprisingly good 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead, which played up the fact that it was the fear felt by the humans in the farmhouse that did far more to kill them than did the zombies.

There was no practical reason, for instance, that every ten minutes two of the main characters couldn't have stepped outside and offed a zombie, keeping the horde entirely manageable.


It gets noticed, and then probably treated as an unknown illness leading to dementia or psychosis. People are going to be extremely reluctant to believe in "zombies", because they violate all the rules of the known universe.
This is going to be true for a while. It's not going to be clear at all for a while that these are zombies. It WILL probably be understood fairly quickly--after a number of hospitals attempt to restrain out of control patients and it doesn't go well--that there is a contagious disease of some kind that spreads through contact (remember that scratches apparently are capable of transmitting the disease). It's going to be treated first as an epidemic on the order of, as someone mentioned above, rabies. It's going to take weeks before you hear news that the dead are coming back to life.

Can a zombie locate a living human other than by sight?
In TWD they can smell the difference between a human and a zombie, but apparently only from several feet away, since they walked by the group when the group was hiding under cars. Hearing is apparently a big one. They head towards loud noises, including gunshots. One of the first things I'd do after grasping this would be to hook up a loud recording of anything to a couple of car batteries and set it up five miles from where I was settled in.

By the way, Cracked did a pretty good job of explaining why a zombie apocalypse would most likely fail miserably.
They also did a pretty good job of explaining how a zombie apocalypse could happen.

Well sure, anything that gives Will Smith continued employment is problematical.
I, Robot was an infinitely stupid movie. It's as though they roundtabled every scene and said, 'how can we #### this up?'
   597. McCoy Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4068097)
They head towards loud noises, including gunshots. One of the first things I'd do after grasping this would be to hook up a loud recording of anything to a couple of car batteries and set it up five miles from where I was settled in.

The only problem with this is the zombies coming up behind you (in which you are between them and sound) who catch the sound on a breeze and head for it. Plus once you've got them all there eventually they'll either destroy that which is making noise or the noisemaker will run out of juice. In which case you have hundreds if not thousands and thousands of zombies pretty close to your living area.
   598. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4068104)

Afrika Korps soldiers in WW2 survived on 1 litre per day during the worst of their supply crises. And that's in a freaking desert, while fighting.


The Germans, at least. 1 liter a day isn't going to be enough to prepare very much pasta.
   599. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4068107)
The armed forces has jets, tanks, helicopters, ships, communcation networks, training on how to work together, and vast amount of resources. If handful of malnourished survivors loosely working together armed only with clubs, some sharp instruments, and some small arms can take down hundreds of zombies at a time while those zombies are in extremely close contact with them then I think soldiers with tanks, bombs, and guns can figure out how to kill them well before it gets to the point that they are all zombies.
i'm not really familiar with the walking dead canon, but what if the outbreak was related to vaccinations? if the whole zombie thing was started because of a contaminated flu vaccine, that could explain how there came to be so many zombies in such a short time.

and if the army vaccinated their soldiers, that could explain how the military disintegrated.



just a thought there.
   600. Something Other Posted: February 24, 2012 at 05:36 PM (#4068108)
@597: I think I have that covered. I was assuming that even a 120 decibel dingdingding is going to be barely audible, if that, five miles away. If I think of the bell tower (say) at the center of a circle with a five mile radius, I'm not drawing zombies behind me through my area towards the bell tower, but I am drawing away all the zombies between me and the bell tower, in the direction of the bell tower.

Re my post 596, is it conceivable that a radiation induced zombism could also induce an infectious disease among those stricken by said radiation? I mean, I don't want snapper telling me I'm being unrealistic.

edit: anyone else see the NOLD remake?
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