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Monday, February 20, 2012

Deadspin: The Making Of “Homer At The Bat”

How big was this episode:

On Feb. 20, 1992, more American homes tuned into The Simpsons than they did The Cosby Show or the Winter Olympics from Albertville, France. A foul-mouthed cartoon on a fourth-place network bested the Huxtables and the world’s best amateur athletes. Fox over NBC and CBS—its first-ever victory in prime time. New over old.

And how were the players who were on the show:

Showrunner Al Jean has said the players who committed were more than happy to do the show. Well, almost of all of them. “They were all really nice,” Jean said on the DVD commentary, “except for one whose name rhymes with Manseco.”

Mark S. is bored Posted: February 20, 2012 at 08:30 PM | 1075 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: television

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   701. McCoy Posted: February 26, 2012 at 10:14 PM (#4069233)
Looks like we found our prison on The Walking Dead.
   702. McCoy Posted: February 26, 2012 at 11:00 PM (#4069251)
I thought for sure that was going to be their prison but it looks like they are sticking around the barn a bit longer. I'm guessing it is a hell of a lot cheaper to film at the barn.
   703. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: February 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM (#4069257)
Some fight scene. Apparently the residents of the Walking Dead know nothing of either zombies or jiu-jitsu, fren.
   704. puck Posted: February 27, 2012 at 01:50 AM (#4069328)
In WW2 the 8th Air Force had a ratio of 1 down plane per 12,700 rounds fired. The 15th had a ratio of 1/14,200. The Germans had a ratio of 1/12,000. The 8th AF fired over 77 million rounds in WW2. The 15th fired 30 million rounds.


Holy cow. But also Holy Cow, the 8th and 15th Air Force shot down 8000 planes between them?
   705. McCoy Posted: February 27, 2012 at 02:12 AM (#4069332)
Well, the 8th Air Force lost over 4,000 bombers in WWII as well. Americans lost over 18,000 total planes in the European Theater of Operations. Germany built almost 120,000 aircraft and lost almost 117,000 planes of which 70,000 were totally destroyed.
   706. McCoy Posted: February 27, 2012 at 11:55 PM (#4070073)
Apparently Sookie's friend in True Blood is going to be Michonne. I can actually see that.
   707. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 28, 2012 at 04:18 PM (#4070428)
Non zombie-related post.

Apropos to the Star Wars discussion upthread, Poz recently linked to this discussion (long) about the best order to see the Star Wars movies in. I'm warming to the idea of the Machete Order (read the post -- it will explain). Thoughts?

   708. McCoy Posted: February 28, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4070430)
Still contains the absolute horrible number 2 movie and its horrible romance which just kills the second and third movie and then just makes you throw up your hand when you discover that this whole saga is about a petty whiny little brat that throws a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants.
   709. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 28, 2012 at 04:48 PM (#4070444)
just makes you throw up your hand when you discover that this whole saga is about a petty whiny little brat that throws a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants.


But that's already the case in the original Star Wars.
   710. zonk Posted: February 28, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4070459)
Still contains the absolute horrible number 2 movie and its horrible romance which just kills the second and third movie and then just makes you throw up your hand when you discover that this whole saga is about a petty whiny little brat that throws a tantrum when he doesn't get what he wants.


Wait -- Stars Wars is an allegory about Alex Rodriguez?
   711. McCoy Posted: February 28, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4070492)


But that's already the case in the original Star Wars.


Except in the original three you don't know the Lucas backstory so Vader isn't a whiny little brat. He is the mysterious man in black who has no problem killing you.
   712. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 28, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4070525)
I was talking about Luke.
   713. McCoy Posted: February 28, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4070547)
Luke is whiny little brat that throws tantrums? Was there a deleted scene of him wiping out an Ewok village or something?
   714. steagles Posted: February 28, 2012 at 11:10 PM (#4070640)
i'm kind of over mykelti williamson on justified. i am not at all enjoying his scenes.


on the other hand, i'm really starting to warm up to neal mcdonough
   715. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:03 AM (#4070670)
Poz recently linked to this discussion (long) about the best order to see the Star Wars movies in. I'm warming to the idea of the Machete Order (read the post -- it will explain). Thoughts?
That was pretty brilliant.
   716.     Hey Gurl Posted: February 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4070676)
I started watching Justified and loved the first couple episodes but at some point I completely lost interest. Utterly forgot about its existence until this thread. Maybe I should go back.
   717. steagles Posted: March 01, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4072134)
I started watching Justified and loved the first couple episodes but at some point I completely lost interest. Utterly forgot about its existence until this thread. Maybe I should go back.
i'd strongly recommend it. i happen to think it's the best show on television.



i'm actually on a bit of a dr. who kick right now. i'm going through it for the first time, i just finished the 2nd series, and i'm pretty blown away right now. the build throughout the series, from the first series finale, to the introduction of the cybermen, to the showdown in the finale between the daleks and the cybermen was just brilliant television. i'm in awe of that payoff. it was satisfying on just about every level imaginable.
   718. zenbitz Posted: March 02, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4072877)
I think this is the correct thread on Post Apoc literature... I think we forgot one of the originals "The Earth Abides" (1949). Am reading on my business trip.... pretty good! Actually literary though, not "Lucifer's Hammer"
   719. steagles Posted: March 04, 2012 at 03:51 PM (#4073729)
and now i just finished the third series.


to this point, i think it's definitely the weakest of the finales. the writing was great, as always. the build throughout the season was great (the face of boe telling the doctor that he's not alone, and the doctor assuming human form, both led directly to the big reveal of the master), but i guess i just didn't like the whole telepathic network thing leading to the doctor's rejuvenation. it just seemed weak to me.

the master was really entertaining. the scene where he gassed his cabinet (giving them the thumbs up, no less), and the one where he danced around in his control room are definitely scenes that are gonna stick in my head for a while.


i was actually much more down on the episode until the reveal of the face of boe. between that and the way the episodes continue to build on each other, even when one aspect of the show is disappointing, it's still just a really rewarding experience.

to this point, i think i'd order my favorite seasons 2-3-1, and my favorite finales 2-1-3. i strongly prefer martha to rose, and i'm more of a fan of the 9th doctor than the 10th.
   720. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 04, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4073736)

i'm actually on a bit of a dr. who kick right now. i'm going through it for the first time, i just finished the 2nd series, and i'm pretty blown away right now. the build throughout the series, from the first series finale, to the introduction of the cybermen, to the showdown in the finale between the daleks and the cybermen was just brilliant television. i'm in awe of that payoff. it was satisfying on just about every level imaginable.


Me too. A friend and I are watching the entire show from the first serial in 1963. We're up to serial 15 and it's been very fun and interesting. It's been nice to get to know Hartnell over a substantial body of work. I'm looking forward to the remainder of the second and third seasons.
   721. Lassus Posted: March 04, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4073759)
i strongly prefer martha to rose

THANK YOU


and i'm more of a fan of the 9th doctor than the 10th.

Well, if Eccleston hadn't been such a giant dick, I'd probably think this too; but his lack of any willingness to even remotely embrace the role is - in direct opposition to Tennant - something I can't really ignore when reviewing both of their residencies.

   722. steagles Posted: March 04, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4073794)
i strongly prefer martha to rose

THANK YOU
what did it for you? for me, rose kind of lost it early on, when she interfered with the past to save her father. it was just an abuse of privilege and in the end, there were no consequences for it.


martha was just a much stronger character. she was a medical student, while rose was a salesgirl. she walked the earth for a year in the 3rd series finale and even tricked the master to cause his downfall. plus, she walked away from the doctor while rose had to be dragged away--twice.


and i'm more of a fan of the 9th doctor than the 10th.

Well, if Eccleston hadn't been such a giant dick, I'd probably think this too; but his lack of any willingness to even remotely embrace the role is - in direct opposition to Tennant - something I can't really ignore when reviewing both of their residencies.
i just don't think tennant is capable of expressing intensity. he's just always aloof and kind of in his own world. i don't really know anything of the backstory with eccleston, but i thought he was more credible as an action lead than tennant.

in the first series finale, eccleston had the kind of presence that, really without any of the backstory about the daleks, you could feel their fear of him. in tennant's interactions with the daleks, the feeling i get is that the daleks are afraid of him because that's the established cannon. there's really been nothing on screen to make me feel that they should be afraid of him.

   723. Kurt Posted: March 04, 2012 at 11:03 PM (#4073875)
i just don't think tennant is capable of expressing intensity. he's just always aloof and kind of in his own world. i don't really know anything of the backstory with eccleston, but i thought he was more credible as an action lead than tennant.


"Aloof and in his own world" is a pretty good description of the Doctor.

Eccleston is certainly more credible as an action lead than Tennant. The question is whether you view the show as an action show, or a fun, light sci-fi show with action elements.

(spoilers: Tennant definitely gets more intense toward the end of S4.)
   724. cardsfanboy Posted: March 04, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4073889)
(spoilers: Tennant definitely gets more intense toward the end of S4.)


Understatement. Waters of Mars is the culmination of that.


I have to say, as a rule, I like the current doctor the best, and that means whichever doctor I'm currently watching, not whichever one is currently filming a serial.
   725. steagles Posted: March 05, 2012 at 01:19 PM (#4074167)
Eccleston is certainly more credible as an action lead than Tennant. The question is whether you view the show as an action show, or a fun, light sci-fi show with action elements.
tennant just doesn't seem like a badass, and i really do think that needs to be a factor in a show like this.




i just watched last night's walking dead. i've gotta say, the show has really done an awful job of trying to make me care about the characters. i just did not give a damn about that ending.
   726. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4074179)
Apropos to the Star Wars discussion upthread, Poz recently linked to this discussion (long) about the best order to see the Star Wars movies in. I'm warming to the idea of the Machete Order (read the post -- it will explain). Thoughts?


You take out II and III, and you might actually have something there.
   727. JPWF1313 Posted: March 05, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4074253)
Apropos to the Star Wars discussion upthread, Poz recently linked to this discussion (long) about the best order to see the Star Wars movies in. I'm warming to the idea of the Machete Order (read the post -- it will explain). Thoughts?

You take out II and III, and you might actually have something there.


I was thinking that you could perhaps intersperse some of the half decent scenes from the prequels, into the real series as flavoring, kind of like how scenes showing Don Corleone's rise to power were interspersed into GodFather II.
Like when Kenobi first tells Luke that he and his father fought together as Jedis in the Clone Wars, you could show a flashback to the battle scene on Geonosis (sp?) in the second sequel. Maybe show a scene of Palpitine announcing the conversion of the republic into an empire (when Leia is told the Senate is being disbanded...)
I'm guessing you could get 25-30 minutes of decent flavoring from pre-quels

   728. McCoy Posted: March 05, 2012 at 02:26 PM (#4074256)

i just watched last night's walking dead. i've gotta say, the show has really done an awful job of trying to make me care about the characters. i just did not give a damn about that ending.


It's a character study without any characters.
   729. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 05, 2012 at 02:48 PM (#4074276)
Like when Kenobi first tells Luke that he and his father fought together as Jedis in the Clone Wars, you could show a flashback to the battle scene on Geonosis (sp?) in the second sequel.


That scene is terrible.

There is, IMO, nothing from the prequels that's worth trying to salvage.
   730. Lassus Posted: March 05, 2012 at 03:09 PM (#4074303)
tennant just doesn't seem like a badass, and i really do think that needs to be a factor in a show like this.

Someone probably agreed with you (although I don't), because that's seems to be Moffat's intent with #11.

I'm not sure how much else to say - even about my own opinions of the Moffat/Smith run - without spoiling or coloring your eventual viewing.


The Walking Dead has been just beyond awful. I wonder how many indie optioned comic books are being ruined by this disaster. (That being said, I haven't a clue how the ratings are this season, so maybe just the opposite is happening. They apparently destroyed the first season, right?)
   731. McCoy Posted: March 05, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4074579)
The Walking Dead has been just beyond awful. I wonder how many indie optioned comic books are being ruined by this disaster. (That being said, I haven't a clue how the ratings are this season, so maybe just the opposite is happening. They apparently destroyed the first season, right?)

Well, the comic book is rather terrible as well. Artwork is nothing special, characters are extremely two-dimensional, more melo-drama than drama, absent any real majorly interesting villians or characters, and no really interesting dialogue. Basically what they have is an interesting idea and that is about it.




   732. AJMcCringleberry Posted: March 05, 2012 at 07:29 PM (#4074587)
Good Walking Dead summary.

That being said, I haven't a clue how the ratings are this season

The ratings are excellent, they are setting records.
   733. Lassus Posted: March 05, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4074594)
The ratings are excellent, they are setting records.

Nods. I thought so. I think the complaints (including mine) are more nerd-based than popularly so.


Well, the comic book is rather terrible as well. Artwork is nothing special, characters are extremely two-dimensional, more melo-drama than drama, absent any real majorly interesting villians or characters, and no really interesting dialogue. Basically what they have is an interesting idea and that is about it.

I'm sorry, McCoy, but this doesn't match much of what I've read critically about the comic-book series.
   734. McCoy Posted: March 05, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4074596)
I'm sorry, McCoy, but this doesn't match much of what I've read critically about the comic-book series.

Well, that is great. Have you read them?



Season 3 will be 16 episodes long and the Governor will be in it.
   735. steagles Posted: March 05, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4074631)
Season 3 will be 16 episodes long and the Governor will be in it.
isn't this season 3?
   736. McCoy Posted: March 05, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4074650)
No, this is still season two.
   737. Lassus Posted: March 05, 2012 at 09:33 PM (#4074687)
Well, that is great. Have you read them?

I figured that was a clear no.

I do think that the prevailing critical opinion has more weight to me than yours, which is in the clear minority.

But hell, according to my own opinion of the TV show, I'm in the minority as well, so there's that.
   738. McCoy Posted: March 05, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4074749)
The Wiki on The Walking Dead is pretty scant when it comes to critical acclaim. It won an Eisner award, Mel Brooks' son likes it, and somebody from IGN comics likes it.
   739. steagles Posted: March 05, 2012 at 11:42 PM (#4074754)
The Wiki on The Walking Dead is pretty scant when it comes to critical acclaim. It won an Eisner award, Mel Brooks' son likes it, and somebody from IGN comics likes it.
plus cm punk. don't forget about cm punk.
   740. steagles Posted: March 09, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4077730)
to this point, i think i'd order my favorite seasons 2-3-1, and my favorite finales 2-1-3. i strongly prefer martha to rose, and i'm more of a fan of the 9th doctor than the 10th.
(spoilers: Tennant definitely gets more intense toward the end of S4.)



i just saw the 4th series finale and the waters of mars and the end of time. i'm still just not much of a fan of his.



i think i'd still say season 2 was my favorite, but past that, i'd go 3-1-4 in fairly tight succession. so far, i do have to say that the second half of the 4th season was the weakest i've found the series. it just really seemed to drop off after the sontaran 2-parter.

also, i wasn't really a fan of the ending to waters of mars.
and the end of time was good at explaining some of the doctor's backstory, but it peaked early (when the master stepped into the machine and converted humanity) and the momentum just didn't build from that point.



i'm looking forward to seeing what the show is like with the next doctor. **fingers crossed**


also, i think donna was the most annoying companion to date, and my opinion of rose has improved from where it was at the end of season 2, while my opinion of martha kind of took a bit of a hit when she tried to blow up the earth, so that's closer than it used to be.
   741. McCoy Posted: March 11, 2012 at 09:16 PM (#4078639)
Man, The Walking Dead is turning into one big mess of a clusterf**k. As every minute passes it descends further and further into The Killing territory.
   742. Lassus Posted: March 11, 2012 at 09:35 PM (#4078642)
I'm not even bothering with watching tonight. I'll stick with my Breaking Bad engagement. I'm only on the fourth episode!
   743. McCoy Posted: March 11, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4078643)
At least Bob's Burgers came out again tonight.
   744. McCoy Posted: March 11, 2012 at 10:02 PM (#4078649)
Season three is going to be interesting in terms of the changes between the comic book and the TV show.
   745. Howie Menckel Posted: March 12, 2012 at 01:17 AM (#4078678)


"the 8th Air Force lost over 4,000 bombers in WWII as well."

my dad survived but lost a co-pilot, yes.
   746. Chicago Joe Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:00 AM (#4078684)
Man, The Walking Dead is turning into one big mess of a clusterf**k. As every minute passes it descends further and further into The Killing territory.


Well, I think they saved it pretty well.
   747. CFiJ Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:45 AM (#4078736)
Re: the Machete Cut. That is absolutely brilliant, and I don't even have a problem with Episode 1.

Re: Doctor Who - I've always found Tennant more intense and darker than Eccleston. The problem with the Tennant eps was the constant upping the ante of the finales. Season 2 it was Daleks and Cyberman have actually invaded Earth! Season 3 it was the Master and the Troclafane have conquered Earth, defeated the Doctor, and decimated the population! Season 4 it was the Daleks have actually stolen the Earth and destroyed the future! It got to the point where it was like, "Well, what magic reset button are they going to push now?"

To be fair, the Moffat series has been guilty of this as well, but Moffat just tends to set up the magic reset button much better than Davies did, making the Doctor far more proactive in finding the solution. "The Big Bang" is still one of my favoritest eps of New Who, even though it's hard to explain just how it's different in quality from Davies' series.
   748. cardsfanboy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4078762)
"Well, what magic reset button are they going to push now?"


That solution continues on through the Matt Smith Doctor, it gets even bigger(bang).

The first season of Matt Smith was quite good, the second season had it's moments but the ending was horribly executed. My favorite episode of the new series was in Matt Smith's second season, The Doctor's wife.
   749. Lassus Posted: March 12, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4078824)
After two seasons, I really can't wait for the Moffat/Smith era to end. I've been as patient as I can, but I have disliked nearly all of it.


My favorite episode of the new series was in Matt Smith's second season, The Doctor's wife.

Likewise. OH LOOK, Neil Gaiman.
   750. steagles Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4079077)
After two seasons, I really can't wait for the Moffat/Smith era to end. I've been as patient as I can, but I have disliked nearly all of it.
i'm only 1 episode in, so my mind is far from made up on it, but i'm not much of a fan of his so far.


hopefully it's just a temporary adjustment, but with a new doctor, a new companion, a new tardis, a new producer, and a new screwdriver, it just kind of seems like everything has changed, like it's a whole new series.
   751. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:45 PM (#4079091)
I'm sorry, McCoy, but this doesn't match much of what I've read critically about the comic-book series.

Well, that is great. Have you read them?


I have, at least up through a couple of years ago, at which point the sloooooooooow pacing did me in, especially when coupled with my refusal to continue paying extortionate amounts of money for, at best, 5 minutes of entertainment. (This is true of just about all modern comics, btw, not just Walking Dead.) Solid series; Kirkman by all accounts is something of an idiot (i.e. he thinks Rob ####### Liefeld hung the ####### moon, for crissakes), but blind hogs, acorns, etc.
   752. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 12, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4079097)
Strange, I definitely like Matt Smith as Doctor far better than any of 9-11, and he matches up well with the classic Doctors as well. I'm happy for him to continue indefinitely.
   753. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 12, 2012 at 04:05 PM (#4079112)
*sigh* Zombies & post-apocalyptic literature. Clearly, I'm going to have to sit down & read this whole ############# goddamned thread.
   754. McCoy Posted: March 13, 2012 at 12:52 AM (#4079455)
I still enjoy The Family Guy and found Bob's Burgers to be rather funny. I have no idea if they'll be able to maintain that funny but I would bet they don't.

Saw the latest Bob's Burger and it appears they've run out of material. Sad.
   755. steagles Posted: March 13, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4080095)
hopefully it's just a temporary adjustment, but with a new doctor, a new companion, a new tardis, a new producer, and a new screwdriver, it just kind of seems like everything has changed, like it's a whole new series.
and now there are new daleks, too.


i'm not really the kind of person who is disturbed by change, but i can't say i'm enthused by all of these little differences.
   756. CFiJ Posted: March 13, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4080231)
Strange, I definitely like Matt Smith as Doctor far better than any of 9-11, and he matches up well with the classic Doctors as well. I'm happy for him to continue indefinitely.

I'm a fan, as well. I was hooked from "Me." [BANG!]

hopefully it's just a temporary adjustment, but with a new doctor, a new companion, a new tardis, a new producer, and a new screwdriver, it just kind of seems like everything has changed, like it's a whole new series.

Well, it is. Usually there's some companion continuity to ease the transition, but through its history the show has undergone some major shifts. 7th to 9th Doctor is a big one of course. But 2nd to 3rd was similar to this; new Doctor, new companions, new Tardis, went from black and white to color. My first Doctor was the 4th, but by the 6th it just didn't feel the same.
   757. fuzzycopper Posted: March 13, 2012 at 09:24 PM (#4080269)
The main problem with early Matt Smith episodes, to me, are the stories themselves. A new Doctor gives the writers a chance to create new storylines/characters/etc, but the first half of Smith's first season relied on far too many Tenant-era callbacks (more pointy-tooted vampires (or aliens pretending to be vampires), more 16th century Europe, more stone angels), and before you knew it, out came the Daleks again. And a new companion (technically speaking) was found within 10 minutes of the first episode. I have no problem with recurring themes or story arcs, but I wish the Smith era didn't start off so... stale.

By the midway point of his first season, thankfully, Smith-era Who finally seemed to have found its sea legs.
   758. steagles Posted: March 14, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4080502)
more stone angels
has there ever been a more awkward archvillain than the weeping angels?
   759. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 14, 2012 at 11:12 AM (#4080518)
before you knew it, out came the Daleks again.


If this bothers you, avoid the early seasons. Once the Daleks became popular, they trotted them out as often as they possibly could. In fact, there were entire comic books in which the Daleks were the only characters and the Doctor and companions were written out entirely.

has there ever been a more awkward archvillain than the weeping angels?


Love them. The most creative villain in any sci-fi series that I can remember.

   760. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 14, 2012 at 12:21 PM (#4080588)
Strange, I definitely like Matt Smith as Doctor far better than any of 9-11

Are there any TV shows that were worse than 9/11? "Family Matters," maybe.
   761. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 14, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4080622)
Are there any TV shows that were worse than 9/11?


Yes: "Heil Honey, I'm Home!"

   762. Dale Sams Posted: March 14, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4080660)
Are there any TV shows that were worse than 9/11?


Yes: "Heil Honey, I'm Home!"


I'm stunned that I'm at a loss for a worse one. Cause I don't think that's particularly bad...

"Cop Rock" is too easy, I liked "Quark",...do kids shows count? Cause that "Fred" guy can kiss my ass. "Manimal"? "Small Wonder"?
   763. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 14, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4080708)
"Cop Rock" is too easy, I liked "Quark",...do kids shows count? Cause that "Fred" guy can kiss my ass. "Manimal"? "Small Wonder"?
Now, look, I can put up with all the communism at BBTF. But I won't have you dissing Small Wonder.
   764. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:16 PM (#4080725)
Love them. The most creative villain in any sci-fi series that I can remember.

I would agree up until the point where Moffat positively obliterated their entire mythology and creativity in the season 5 two-parter.

   765. zenbitz Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4080738)
The weeping angles are a problem for me because they make the show "too scary" for my wife and 7 year old.
Actually, the Silence were even worse, had to stop watching giving my kid nightmares
   766. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 14, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4080740)

I would agree up until the point where Moffat positively obliterated their entire mythology and creativity in the season 5 two-parter.


How so? (I think I know what you are going to say but want to give you the opportunity to speak for yourself rather than putting words in your mouth).
   767. Lassus Posted: March 14, 2012 at 03:31 PM (#4080796)
Actually, the Silence were even worse, had to stop watching giving my kid nightmares

Just imagine if they actually did anything.


How so? (I think I know what you are going to say but want to give you the opportunity to speak for yourself rather than putting words in your mouth).

On way out - will answer later.
   768. steagles Posted: March 14, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4080805)
The weeping angles are a problem for me because they make the show "too scary" for my wife and 7 year old.
Actually, the Silence were even worse, had to stop watching giving my kid nightmares
did he have two shadows?

   769. Something Other Posted: March 14, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4081032)
i just watched last night's walking dead. i've gotta say, the show has really done an awful job of trying to make me care about the characters. i just did not give a damn about that ending.

It's a character study without any characters.
Not being snotty, here, but I really don't get how someone can not consider Shane a real character. Torn between desire and friendship, desperate for his own family, and in this apocalypse his best friend's family is about the only chance at one he'll ever have. He's so desperate for it he's driven to murder, and what finally drives him over the edge is an offer of friendship and chaste rapprochement from the woman he loves.

What's not to like about that--is the the actor? The portrayal of the love interest?

I get that there's the problems of TWD having too many sour characters, but I don't think Shane is one, and I think Bernthal did a good job of playing a strong, fatally flawed character.
   770. cardsfanboy Posted: March 14, 2012 at 09:52 PM (#4081083)
How so? (I think I know what you are going to say but want to give you the opportunity to speak for yourself rather than putting words in your mouth).


I'm torn on that two parter, part of it was really great and part of it was somewhat hokey.


spoilers for those who haven't seen it follows.
What I disliked, the rift that annihilates the soldiers had a massive logic flaw. If it eliminates a person from ever existing, then the soldier would have been immediately replaced with a different soldier, it's not like they would have gone on the mission with that few of soldiers. So logically the rift as a villain wouldn't have figured into the loss of manpower. Ultimately the only purpose of the rift was to eliminate Amy's support system to leave her in the woods by herself.

Second is the motivation for the Angels originally wasn't ever provided, this is Doctor Who, not an American crappy sci fi show. The villains having a motivation, determining the motivation and even dealing with many misunderstandings is a hallmark of the show. The villains have to have a purpose. Eventually throwing the Doctor into the rift to close it became the motivation, but that wasn't a part of the plan until the end. Basically before that, the Angels are just killing for the sake of killing.

The Good.
Scary good episode. The jump save was brilliant and well telegraphed(along with the ultimate solution) so it didn't just come out of thin air. The Angel using the one soldiers voice was positively creepy in a good way. Interaction between River and Doctor was well done. Mind you, I like River, not a fan of the actress playing her, she doesn't do it for me, but the character is quite interesting even if you eventually realize that regardless of the all things they said about knowing her backstory, that you realize they more or less made it up as they went along.

Overall the two parter was a solid B grade from me. That is on the Doctor scale, not on a neutral scale, a Doctor Who episode getting a B is probably still an A relative to average television.
   771. Lassus Posted: March 15, 2012 at 12:32 AM (#4081156)
I like River, not a fan of the actress playing her, she doesn't do it for me

I'm just the opposite, love the actress, hate the character.


How so? (I think I know what you are going to say but want to give you the opportunity to speak for yourself rather than putting words in your mouth).

I would need to re-watch, but a massive horde of Angels involved in a complicated, shoehorned story about using people's brains and then unsuccessfully chasing a group around is not as sinister as assassins who send you back in time, removing you from your own existence. I simply think that nonsensical return ruined their unique scariness. Maybe I'm alone in that.

   772. Something Other Posted: March 15, 2012 at 03:46 AM (#4081199)
Serious question--at some point was Dr. Who a kids' show that over time became a show for adults? I remember seeing an episode decades ago and I just thought it was for children. Daleks were involved. I have some recollection they were similar to teletubbies.
   773. Lassus Posted: March 15, 2012 at 07:07 AM (#4081211)
Serious question--at some point was Dr. Who a kids' show that over time became a show for adults? I remember seeing an episode decades ago and I just thought it was for children. Daleks were involved. I have some recollection they were similar to teletubbies.

It's always been debatable. Plenty of the old shows were scary/weird as hell. One of the most popular shows of all is called "City of Death".
   774. Kurt Posted: March 15, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4081257)
Maybe I'm alone in that.

No, you're not. That two parter wasn't terrible, but it would have worked much better with a new monster than with the angels.

   775. McCoy Posted: March 15, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4081446)
Well, Luck got canceled today.
   776. steagles Posted: March 15, 2012 at 03:33 PM (#4081577)
i am still not a fan of mykelti williamson on justified. and i think it's just a little bit insulting for boyd crowder to have given pro-coal and anti-coal speeches in consecutive seasons. i expect more out of justified than for them to have just forgotten last season's black pike storyline.
   777. McCoy Posted: March 15, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4081600)
Boyd Crowder doesn't care about either position.
   778. JPWF1313 Posted: March 15, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4081653)
just thought it was for children. Daleks were involved. I have some recollection they were similar to teletubbies.


You see if the teletubbies went around screaming EXTERMINATE and shooting people, then yes I cabn see the comparison since Daleks were/are rather silly looking....

I remember one episode (Tom Baker, 4th doctor), when the Doctor eluded a Dalek by, gasp, climbing a flight of stairs, at the top he turned around and shouted, "If you really are a superior species prove it, follow me up these stairs)...

apparently in their latest incarnation they can fly/levitate, which resolves that old inability to navigate stairs difficulty :-)

Baker's Dr. could be rather goofy at times, the 3rd one, Pertwee was deadly serious (he was also competent and not absent minded- many doctors have tended to have some sort of mental issues, partial amnesia or something).

   779. cardsfanboy Posted: March 15, 2012 at 11:19 PM (#4081936)
Serious question--at some point was Dr. Who a kids' show that over time became a show for adults? I remember seeing an episode decades ago and I just thought it was for children. Daleks were involved. I have some recollection they were similar to teletubbies.


Hard to say it was really for children, but yes it was targeted at children, but in a time before they started dumbing down kids shows to the point that Sesame Street is actually intelligent in comparison. The shows were somewhat scary, always had a semi sexy young lady on it, and came on after the soccer(or football) matches so it had a built in male audience even if it was intended for kiddies(note the comment about the soccer matches is strictly from an interview with the actress who played Leela--an role that involved her wearing a Sheena she devil outfit and running a lot--when she was talking about the popularity of the show)

By claiming it was for children the show was able to get around some rules at BBC and budget crunches(although their budget was paltry, in comparison to other shows it was pretty big)

I'm just the opposite, love the actress, hate the character.

I should clarify, I have no problem with the actress, I have a problem with her in that role, she just doesn't fit it for me. She grows more as the series progress's, but I just don't see her as a impish enough for the role that she is playing.

apparently in their latest incarnation they can fly/levitate, which resolves that old inability to navigate stairs difficulty :-)


Thank heaven for bigger budgets. It does make them more of a threat.

   780. NTNgod Posted: March 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM (#4081938)
(although their budget was paltry


They sure got a lot of mileage out of that one rock quarry location over the years.
   781. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 12:05 AM (#4081951)
What I disliked, the rift that annihilates the soldiers had a massive logic flaw. If it eliminates a person from ever existing, then the soldier would have been immediately replaced with a different soldier, it's not like they would have gone on the mission with that few of soldiers. So logically the rift as a villain wouldn't have figured into the loss of manpower.


That's not how the rift works, in my understanding. History isn't replayed with that person missing; instead, the thread of that person's life is removed from history. The result is something like a removing a thread from a tapestry. It's not replaced by another thread, but the remaining threads are just spread more thinly.

In other words, it's like the episode of Star Trek: TNG where Beverly Crusher was trapped in the warp bubble and people on the Enterprise kept disappearing.

Second is the motivation for the Angels originally wasn't ever provided, this is Doctor Who, not an American crappy sci fi show. The villains having a motivation, determining the motivation and even dealing with many misunderstandings is a hallmark of the show.


Of course they had a motivation, one that was very clearly articulated. The crashed spaceship had the last known Angel on it; the goal of that Angel was to preserve its race. It attempted to do so by absorbing the energy from the spaceship's reactor core.

There was another group of Angels on that planet; they had been there for thousands(?) of years, and had deteriorated through lack of energy into formless beings. Their motivation was simpler: HUNGER. They hadn't eaten in millenia. Does make one peckish. ;-)

Serious question--at some point was Dr. Who a kids' show that over time became a show for adults? I remember seeing an episode decades ago and I just thought it was for children. Daleks were involved. I have some recollection they were similar to teletubbies.


It was meant as an archetypal 60s family show. It was meant to have thrills for the adults, chills for the kids, and educate the viewers into the bargain (this was particularly the role of the early 'historical' episodes). There was a lot of tension early on between the desire to keep adults watching, yet not make it inappropriate (by 1960s standards) for children.

It's worth noting that in the first three seasons (as far as I've gotten in my reprise of the series), the episodes got an average of 10-12 million viewers each.
   782. steagles Posted: March 16, 2012 at 01:40 AM (#4081969)
just as a by the way, i've given up on the walking dead. i just don't care, and i'd rather watch top shot.
   783. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: March 16, 2012 at 02:27 AM (#4081979)
Haven't seen "Doctor Who" in years & years (Tom Baker?).
Haven't seen "The Walking Dead."

I just wanted to say that I also enjoyed "Quark."
   784. Lassus Posted: March 16, 2012 at 07:20 AM (#4081998)
Slivers - just as an FYI to and clarify, I personally find that all of what you describe just erodes the uniqueness and scariness of the Weeping Angels as a villain to an unacceptable degree, making them unwieldy and top-heavy.


They sure got a lot of mileage out of that one rock quarry location over the years.

Roddenberry must have learned plenty from Doctor Who.
   785. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:33 AM (#4082014)
Walking Dead Spoilers from this past week!



The Waling Dead is the worst piece of #### going right now. Yeah, sure, the Shane/Rick showdown was "intense" and we got a character death payoff, but do the writers think we're ####### stupid? Carl's gunshot brings a thousand walkers from the woods that have been combed and recombed for the last 7 epsiodes? Meanwhile, when the barn opened and we had a veritable ten minute shooting orgy, nary a single walker was drawn to Hershel's farm. Wow, great writing guys. Also, how the frick did Carl get there? Did Shane plan to kill Rick in some clearing like, right next to Hershel's farm? And didn't he drop the gun in the quicksand? And I was just bashing my head against the wall that after all the moralizing back and forth over what to do with the prisoner, we wind up back in the exact same "drive him out to the middle of nowhere scenario" from several episodes back. Great, awesome writing there, ########.

Moreover, is "T-Dog" the single most embarrassing thing on television right now? The guy makes Winston Zeddemore seem as fleshed out and three dimensional as Dr. John Prentice. I literally have never seen a more shameless example of pointless tokenism. When was the last time the character did something, anything? I think he carried some wood into the house this week. oh and he hit a walker with a hammer recently. And got an infection. I love the fact that he is from Brooklyn, even though the show takes place in Georgia. Because black people come from Brooklyn! What a ####### insult to the viewers.

In short, Walking Dead sucks ass.
   786. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:38 AM (#4082016)
But Justified, man, Justified is like a sweet undeserved gift of manna from TV Yahweh. What a great show.
   787. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:41 AM (#4082019)

i am still not a fan of mykelti williamson on justified. and i think it's just a little bit insulting for boyd crowder to have given pro-coal and anti-coal speeches in consecutive seasons. i expect more out of justified than for them to have just forgotten last season's black pike storyline.


Surely the obvious answer is that Boyd doesn't give two shits about coal and makes speeches that suit his purposes. In this case, humiliating Sheriff Napier at the debate (though how anyone could not vote for Jim Beaver...for anything...even President...of the world!...is beyond me). Last season he was being paid by the mining company.

No inconsistency. In fact, perfect consistency. Boyd's moral code has very narrow limits.
   788. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 08:42 AM (#4082021)
Also, more Jim Beaver everywhere please. As great as Breaking Bad is, its single best 5 minutes might have been Jim Beaver's gun-dealing scene with Walt.
   789. Lassus Posted: March 16, 2012 at 09:13 AM (#4082034)
i am still not a fan of mykelti williamson on justified.

I actually don't think it's his fault. The writing this season has been just a tad off to my ear, and I'm not sure they really knew what they wanted out of Limehouse and the whole thing (which I'm hoping is more than a level of tokenism), and it shows. I'm still loving the show, of course, but this season has been the least of the three so far as far as cohesiveness.
   790. JPWF1313 Posted: March 16, 2012 at 10:13 AM (#4082062)
I just wanted to say that I also enjoyed "Quark."


I just wanted to say I was not sure until now that anyone else on earth remembered that show existed.

Do you remember Woops! too?
   791. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4082071)
I think the plan is to make the Limehouse crew the principal villains/antagonists for NEXT season, hence laying that groundwork now. That's why their inclusions seems somewhat ancillary/uncertain. Just a guess, though.
   792. Lassus Posted: March 16, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4082079)
I think the plan is to make the Limehouse crew the principal villains/antagonists for NEXT season, hence laying that groundwork now. That's why their inclusions seems somewhat ancillary/uncertain. Just a guess, though.

I thought they were setting up Crowder as the main villain for this season, but as that obviously wasn't it I'm pretty sure it's for NEXT season (what with Ava all of a sudden taking over the whores, an obvious team-up between him and Raylan upcoming, and a long game with the sherriff), so I really am not sure I see that. And call me doctrinated, but I'm getting a whiff of all-knowing, benevolent (magic) negro from Limehouse so I'm not really seeing him as an upcoming villain. Could be wrong, certainly.
   793. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 16, 2012 at 10:58 AM (#4082096)
Favorite line so far from this season? I liked "I got no interest in Shitkicker on Shitkicker crime."
   794. McCoy Posted: March 16, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4082130)
The Waling Dead is the worst piece of #### going right now. Yeah, sure, the Shane/Rick showdown was "intense" and we got a character death payoff, but do the writers think we're ####### stupid? Carl's gunshot brings a thousand walkers from the woods that have been combed and recombed for the last 7 epsiodes? Meanwhile, when the barn opened and we had a veritable ten minute shooting orgy, nary a single walker was drawn to Hershel's farm. Wow, great writing guys. Also, how the frick did Carl get there? Did Shane plan to kill Rick in some clearing like, right next to Hershel's farm? And didn't he drop the gun in the quicksand? And I was just bashing my head against the wall that after all the moralizing back and forth over what to do with the prisoner, we wind up back in the exact same "drive him out to the middle of nowhere scenario" from several episodes back. Great, awesome writing there, ########.

1. Shane went to the spot where Carl dropped the gun and found it. He gave it to Rick who gave it back to Carl. In case you are talking about Shane when he hid his gun it likely that he retrieved it as they were setting up the posse.

2. Gunshots. In the comic book we learn that gunshots draw zombies from miles and miles away. They basically hear the shots and start shambling towards and simply don't stop moving towards that sound until they get distracted away. In the comic book a zombie swarm usually will shamble up to the group eventually if they are sedentary for long and making noise.

3. Carl killing Shane in a field at night is straight out of the comic books. Shane and Rick aren't in the field for the same reason in the comic book but the comic has the two out there with Shane going to kill Rick but Carl kills Shane first. In comic Rick doesn't kill Shane first.

4. The circular story plots unfortunately is a reoccurring theme in the comic book. Rick routinely agonizes over the same thing or similar things for many many issue.

As for T-Dog I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more involved once Michonne comes aboard. In the comic book a big black dude with a daughter joins the group and has several storylines. I'm guessing they'll use T-Dog as a stand in for those storylines. But, yeah, T-Dog was wasted this season.
   795. McCoy Posted: March 16, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4082134)
Boyd will never be the main villain again. He's the number 2 man on the show and they can't make him the main villain again without making it repetitive.

The Limehouse plot does seem weird and pointless but even the Quarles plot seems confused and aimless. Though Winn Duffy is awesome in his scenes.
   796. Ebessan Posted: March 16, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4082151)
Limehouse is a textural character foremost. He'll have his day, but they do need to build to it, and I think that they're doing a good job of it.

The Quarles plot itself is a little muddled, but it just adds to the character's insanity.
   797. steagles Posted: March 16, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4082167)
The Limehouse plot does seem weird and pointless but even the Quarles plot seems confused and aimless. Though Winn Duffy is awesome in his scenes.
i think duffy's fine, but what happened to the guy who cut a man's face off and sewed it to a soccer ball?
   798. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 16, 2012 at 06:47 PM (#4082551)
The Limehouse plot does seem weird and pointless but even the Quarles plot seems confused and aimless. Though Winn Duffy is awesome in his scenes.
Yes. I like the individual episodes of Justified this season just as much as ever, and most of the new characters, but I find the season itself totally disjointed. The Quarles plot is totally confused. It may be perfectly logical that he wants to bribe the local sheriff, but it's all a distraction from his actual scheme, and te whole "let's frame Raylan" lasts one episode, and well, it's like they had about 30 different ideas about what subplots to put in, and decided to do all of them.
   799. McCoy Posted: March 16, 2012 at 07:30 PM (#4082595)
They do a whole episode where Quarles has to ask the Family back home for more money. He gets the money but then the family cuts him off. He then uses that money to bribe the Sherriff. He then somehow comes up with even more money, despite the fact that Raylan shut down his oxy clinic, to give to Limehouse to fund the campaign.

Plus we have Quarles cutoff but where is the Detroit mob? Do they want the territory and revenue or were they simply sending Quarles to Siberia? If they were sending him to Siberia why were they funding him?

One more thing it appears that the organized crime in Harlan county is made up of a bunch of gangs that have 1 to 3 men in them in total.
   800. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 17, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4082974)
Do Zombies ####?
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