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Monday, February 20, 2012

Deadspin: The Making Of “Homer At The Bat”

How big was this episode:

On Feb. 20, 1992, more American homes tuned into The Simpsons than they did The Cosby Show or the Winter Olympics from Albertville, France. A foul-mouthed cartoon on a fourth-place network bested the Huxtables and the world’s best amateur athletes. Fox over NBC and CBS—its first-ever victory in prime time. New over old.

And how were the players who were on the show:

Showrunner Al Jean has said the players who committed were more than happy to do the show. Well, almost of all of them. “They were all really nice,” Jean said on the DVD commentary, “except for one whose name rhymes with Manseco.”

Mark S. is bored Posted: February 20, 2012 at 07:30 PM | 1075 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: television

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   901. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4084796)
I still want to know if zombies poop.
   902. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4084798)
Also, WTF, they couldn't all squeeze into that other car? I'd rather sit on someone's lap for a few hours than camp out in a zombie infested wilderness.
   903. McCoy Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4084801)
I still want to know if zombies poop.

I can't see how they don't but I would guess that it simply oozes out of their ass. I think the bigger question is what the hell does that protein do inside their body? All of their organs shut down and their cells stop regenerating so that stuff isn't getting digested. So what is it doing inside them?
   904. Chicago Joe Posted: March 19, 2012 at 10:46 PM (#4084814)
I can't see how they don't but I would guess that it simply oozes out of their ass. I think the bigger question is what the hell does that protein do inside their body? All of their organs shut down and their cells stop regenerating so that stuff isn't getting digested. So what is it doing inside them?


Maybe the rotting provides heat?
   905. Lassus Posted: March 19, 2012 at 11:08 PM (#4084827)
Also, WTF, they couldn't all squeeze into that other car? I'd rather sit on someone's lap for a few hours than camp out in a zombie infested wilderness.

That was my first thought during that whole scene.
   906. McCoy Posted: March 19, 2012 at 11:17 PM (#4084830)
I just want to know why they didn't siphon gas from the cars on the road. I'm sure a bunch of them were empty but it is likely that since all of those cars were on one side of the highway that they got caught up in a massive traffic jam and then had to flee their cars on foot when the zombies came. As we saw from the first episode these cars contained supplies so it wasn't like people were camped out in these cars for days.
   907. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4084950)
I can't see how they don't but I would guess that it simply oozes out of their ass. I think the bigger question is what the hell does that protein do inside their body? All of their organs shut down and their cells stop regenerating so that stuff isn't getting digested. So what is it doing inside them?
This site seems to think that since the virus has restarted sensory organs, it's possible that it has also restarted the digestive system.
   908. Something Other Posted: March 20, 2012 at 09:47 AM (#4084988)
@863: Thanks for the summary, McCoy. When put like that, it's a pretty bloody series.

Speaking of which, how come the barn was able to hold in all of those zombies that the farm people had captured, so well that none of the gang even knew that the barn contained zombies -- but then when Rick and Carl ran to the barn to escape yesterday, the zombies were tearing through the door in a few seconds?
This was clear to me at the time--Shane had demolished the impressive enough hardware holding the zombies in. After that, it was probably repaired only to the point where the door could be closed and latched, as it would be on any farm not harboring the walking dead. Rick seemed to be bracing the door only with some lumber which, when he wanted the zombies to come on in (which he did, as he said, in order to distract them from the farmhouse), he kicked aside.

And if everyone automatically becomes a zombie when they die, why were there all of those non-zombie dead people in cars when they first came upon the road block?
Credit where it's due: the makers of the series went to the trouble of indicating every single dead person still in vehicles suffered head trauma of some kind. It's clear when you watch it again, either from the condition of the corpses, or the cars, that the latter were in accidents.
   909. Something Other Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4085032)
While David's correct in his post x, that you work on consistency even within the implausible scenario, the writers are already doing that, pretty much to the limit of what's possible. I maintain the prolonged aftermath of a zombie apocalypse is simply inconsistent with exciting drama, and if you want an exciting drama, you're going to have to put up with a bunch of things that can never actually happen.

It was cold enough one of the nights the big attack by the farmhouse was filmed that the director had post-shooting CGI remove any visible exhalations from the walkers since, after all, they don't breathe. If you're watching the show and are unhappy because with the chase of Andrea through the woods it might have been possible to interpret it as, she wasn't outrunning walkers enough despite carrying the gun bag and the show should have sacrificed drama for clarity because it was juuust possible to read the scene as not being entirely consistent with average hungry zombie footspeed, then this isn't the show for you.

   910. fuzzycopper Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4085042)
if you want an exciting drama, you're going to have to put up with a bunch of things that can never actually happen.



The game is rigged, man.
-Bodie
   911. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:40 AM (#4085051)
The game is rigged, man. -Bodie
Unless they some smart-ass zombies...
   912. Something Other Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4085055)
"The issue I have with it is that every time they cut to Andrea the Walkers were to 10 feet away no matter how fast she moved. It was standard zombie movie stereotypes with Andrea."


First, no they weren't. Second, you need to grasp that they don't show the walkers closing the gap from 200 to 30 feet because that's not as exciting as how they chose to shoot and cut it. I never understand these criticisms. If you take that approach, you can find fault with anything. There's no film or novel that doesn't do this kind thing. Well, unless you're a fan of Robbe-Grillet and the infinitely dull "objective novel".

   913. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4085059)
One of the problems with zombie entertainment is that we talk of "zombies" as a type of thing, but there's no consistency in rules from film to film (or TV show). It's not like an episode about cancer, where we could say "that wouldn't happen to someone with cancer!" The rules change at the whim of the writers. So whenever someone points out an inconsistency, the answer is just "well, in this zombie universe..." As much I love Cracked's "7 Reasons a Zombie Apocalypse Would Fail"*, you could just argue that rules are different in whatever zombie universe you've created. Even the characters in the show were under the impression from zombie lore that zombification was transferred via bite, until that rule changed on them.

*For those who don't want to click the link:
1) Too many natural predators
2) They'd rot too fast in the heat
3) They'd freeze in the cold without the body's internal temperature regulation
4) Biting is a terrible way to spread disease
5) They can't heal from day to day damage
6) The earth is covered with zombie proof barriers
7) Weapons, and people who use them
   914. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:48 AM (#4085062)
But the walkers aren't sentient. They are a line of sight predator. A jog through the woods would have Andrea outdistancing all of them in short order and she would vanish into the woods.

There's no film or novel that doesn't do this kind thing.

Which is why I said "standard zombie movie stereotype".
   915. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:50 AM (#4085064)
1) Too many natural predators
2) They'd rot too fast in the heat
3) They'd freeze in the cold without the body's internal temperature regulation
4) Biting is a terrible way to spread disease
5) They can't heal from day to day damage
6) The earth is covered with zombie proof barriers
7) Weapons, and people who use them


The thing is we know that in The Walking Dead they are not immune to these things outside of maybe #1 though in the comic books flies love Zombies.
   916. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4085066)
The game is rigged, man. -Bodie

Unless they some smart-ass zombies...


You come at the king's head, apparently you never, ever miss.
   917. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 11:22 AM (#4085114)
The game is rigged, man. -Bodie

Unless they some smart-ass zombies...


You come at the king's head, apparently you never, ever miss.
What they need is a union.
   918. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4085116)
Which is why I said "standard zombie movie stereotype".
I thought Something Other meant "in any genre" (or at least any action/drama).

I will say that this bugs me too when it's used too often or too blatantly.
   919. zonk Posted: March 20, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4085125)
The zombie horde wasn't a straight marathon line, was it?

It was a herd from multiple directions -- I don't think they so much caught up to Andrea as much as she simply was zigging and zagging through the woods with multidirectional zombies approaching her. Inevitably, even non-sentient zombies who aren't working together are simply going to close in by way of the angles preventing her from simply running in a single direction faster than her pursuers.
   920. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4085168)
And yet the herd was extremely spread out? In one scene when the writers needed them to be they were a tightly packed group of zombies coming from one direction and then in the next scene, when they need them to be, they were evenly spread out and coming from all directions. That doesn't really make sense based on what we saw on screen. The area of the farm was not swarming with zombies until a horde formed inside a city and started moving in one direction. Nothing we saw leading up to this episode would lead us to believe that besides this horde there were hundreds if not thousands of zombies wandering around the perimeter of the farm.

Videogum pointed some of this stuff out as well. Rick and Carl see the horde coming over hill and start to run but then magically they somehow get cutoff by the zombies. So they head to the barn. The barn gets swarmed and Rick sets fire to it. The RV then comes up to save them and for some reason the guy doesn't drive off (that is another story) so Rick and Carl get off the RV and suddenly there are no zombies anywhere but behind a fence. Not only that but Rick and Carl are able to head off into the woods and make their way around the farm to behind the house and come up and remove the lone zombie that somehow got behind the house. But just 20 feet away the there are tons of zombies that cutoff all avenues of retreat for Andrea, Carol, and Herschel's family. Yet somehow defenseless and useless Carol is able to stumble free of this and make it down through the farm towards the road where again it was remarkably free of zombies. Then we look back at Herschel, Rick, and Carl and we once again find that their area that was just 20 feet away from Andrea is remarkably free of zombies. They tuck and run to the car and skedaddle.
   921. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2012 at 12:25 PM (#4085190)
Videogum pointed some of this stuff out as well.
Gabe's recaps are BY FAR the best thing about this show.
   922. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4085201)
Gabe's recaps are BY FAR the best thing about this show.

You mentioning this other day led me to check this sight out. I think it gets a little petty and shortsighted and reminds me a lot of Fire Joe Morgan where they would tear apart Joe Morgan's online chats sentence by sentence even when they should have passed a sentence or paragraph up. For instance in the penultimate episode he bashes the show for having a herd coming out of nowhere when he should have simply had a little patience to see what would happen. In a lot of ways he is bashing the show for not spoon feeding us like we are babies. That isn't to say he doesn't have a point a good deal of time but like FJM the amount of criticism that gets spewed out tends to drown out the salient points.

I think their recaps are better than Pajiba's in some ways and in some ways they are not.
   923. Something Other Posted: March 20, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4085215)
And with regard to last night's episode 1) why did Rick keep what he learned at the CDC a secret?, and 2) why did everyone care? It's not it would have changed everyone's strategy. I can see everyone being upset about not being told the truth, but ultimately it doesn't change anything.

Whoa--I think it's a big, big deal. Let's say the person you're making love to dies during the night. You're going to wake up to having your face bitten off. I think they blocked and filmed it extraordinarily well. It seemed like every actor stiffened up slightly but noticeably, and two or three seemed to move an inch away from the person nearest. Imagine, too, looking into the eyes of your beloved and knowing they have a zombie virus. You do too, of course, but it means nothing's every going to be truly clean again. That's a hell of a lot to lose.

edit: I see a lot of the techincal aspects have been addressed. I think the more symbolic ones could be crushing.

Yes. Think about hospitals generally. (Especially emergency rooms. Or operating rooms.) Or first responders. There's been a car accident -- do you treat the wounded? Or just dispatch them with a shot to the head as you arrive on scene?
No need for this--the dead don't turn immediately (I think there's a three minute minimum?).

Also, WTF, they couldn't all squeeze into that other car? I'd rather sit on someone's lap for a few hours than camp out in a zombie infested wilderness.

That was my first thought during that whole scene.
They had supplies in the vehicles, plus, I'd think you wouldn't want to put all your eggs in one basket. Even so, running out of gas should never be an issue, and should therefore never enter the show's narrative. When you have as many cars as we saw on the highway, there is always going to be gas to siphon until it goes bad.

Which would actually be a problem. I learned years ago to drain my push gas mower late every fall. Too often it wouldn't start in the spring on the stale gas that was only five months old. I don't know exactly what the shelf life of gas is, but it's not terribly long. One year? Two? After the ZA people should start learning to raise and ride horses. Within a few years cars will be worthless unless you get yourself a Volt and can maintain a solar array. That will buy you a decade or two, but it's another factor in favor of staying in one place. It's a lot easier to learn these kinds of skills if you've got a bit of a cushion.

Where would people go?

If you think the biggest threat is other people, cities are probably your best deal. In Minneapolis you'd have access to a ton of other buildings and therefore supplies through the skywalk system.

If you want to set up for the long haul, an out of the way gated community not too far from a wealthy suburb of unpillaged shopping mall is probably the way to go.

Which is why I said "standard zombie movie stereotype".

I thought Something Other meant "in any genre" (or at least any action/drama).

I will say that this bugs me too when it's used too often or too blatantly.
Fwiw, pretty sure the italicized was McCoy in reply to Lassus.
   924. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 01:07 PM (#4085235)
Where would people go?

The problem is that it doesn't really matter. The nuclear fallout would kill us regardless of where we went in America.
   925. Shredder Posted: March 20, 2012 at 01:10 PM (#4085241)
Whoa--I think it's a big, big deal. Let's say the person you're making love to dies during the night. You're going to wake up to having your face bitten off.
Yeah, but what a way to go. Though I suppose it would be a great excuse for not sticking around after a one night stand.

But that's beside the point. Specifically, we're talking about a pretty small group of people here. They're living in the middle of a freaking zombie apocalypse. I think the bar for what's "surprising" at that point would have to be pretty high. And again, it doesn't really change anyone's strategy. All it means is that if someone in their group dies somehow, you now know that you need to blow their brains out right away.
   926. zonk Posted: March 20, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4085247)

Which would actually be a problem. I learned years ago to drain my push gas mower late every fall. Too often it wouldn't start in the spring on the stale gas that was only five months old. I don't know exactly what the shelf life of gas is, but it's not terribly long. One year? Two? After the ZA people should start learning to raise and ride horses. Within a few years cars will be worthless unless you get yourself a Volt and can maintain a solar array. That will buy you a decade or two, but it's another factor in favor of staying in one place. It's a lot easier to learn these kinds of skills if you've got a bit of a cushion.


It has no zombies - but Earth Abides focused a fair bit on this...

More than just gas, but batteries, tires, etc wearing out. Most technology becomes obsolete by the time the main protagonist gathers his little band together into a functioning community. The next generation all but ignores the lost technology.

Pretty good book, actually, though a bit dated (written in the 50s, I think).
   927. zonk Posted: March 20, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4085262)
Where would people go?

If you think the biggest threat is other people, cities are probably your best deal. In Minneapolis you'd have access to a ton of other buildings and therefore supplies through the skywalk system.


I was thinking a ballpark might actually be a pretty good bet.

You have soil to raise a modicum of crops, easily defensible (from zombies) concrete structure where you could probably block the exits. Lots of space for storage, shelter from weather, presumably decent water access until the infrastructure breaks down (something like Soldiers Field or PNC right on a river would be ideal).
   928. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4085276)
The best bet would be old defunct prisons. Sturdy walls, generally not in high population areas, lots of room, meant to be self sufficient, and generally don't have a lot of egresses to the outside world.

Carlisle Prison
   929. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 20, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4085321)

It was a herd from multiple directions -- I don't think they so much caught up to Andrea as much as she simply was zigging and zagging through the woods with multidirectional zombies approaching her. Inevitably, even non-sentient zombies who aren't working together are simply going to close in by way of the angles preventing her from simply running in a single direction faster than her pursuers.



A familiar problem to anyone who has played this game.
   930. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4085322)
I was thinking a ballpark might actually be a pretty good bet. You have soil to raise a modicum of crops, easily defensible (from zombies) concrete structure where you could probably block the exits. Lots of space for storage, shelter from weather, presumably decent water access until the infrastructure breaks down (something like Soldiers Field or PNC right on a river would be ideal).

This is freaking brilliant. For a Voyager fan.

NO, really, I kid, when I read this I was damned impressed. I'm heading straight for PNC whem the zombie apocalypse hits, I can't think of a better idea.

The only problem might be that I kind of wonder if you were cooking, living, etc. inside said stadium - which would be default be in an urban area - if the zombie population would keep coming and coming and coming and mindlessly pile up however many feel would be required until some could just climb over the top. I'm not sure if it was ever decided upon how long zombies last without feedling.


The best bet would be old defunct prisons. Sturdy walls, generally not in high population areas, lots of room, meant to be self sufficient, and generally don't have a lot of egresses to the outside world.

I'm really not sure the fences would be as good against a horde of zombies as stadium walls would.

   931. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 02:17 PM (#4085341)
I'm really not sure the fences would be as good against a horde of zombies as stadium walls would.

Stadiums are built to handle large flows of traffic into and out of the building. Wide sweeping corridors, many entrances, ramps and stairs everywhere, so forth and so forth. Stadiums would turn into slaughterhouses for anyone inhabiting them.

Prisons have few large openings to the outside world, sturdy metal gates on almost every door, with almost all corridors having barricades of some kind. Prisons have internal space for farming and such protected by large thick walls. They might very well and probably do have machine shops, medical areas, quarantine areas, cafeteria areas, sleeping areas, and so forth and all of those areas are by zombie standards are heavily fortified. Stadiums have none of that.
   932. Lassus Posted: March 20, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4085351)
I'll concede those are all very good points.

Again, my main trouble would be that in many prisons I've seen (and upstate NY has a ton) all of those outside areas are surrounded by fencing rather than brick. Good, double fencing with razor-wire and lookoiut towers, but I still can't get away from how easily a horde (again, horde, lots) would just make it through, over, and around such fencing. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think sealing and blocking the doors to a stadium would be easier.
   933. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4085356)
Fwiw, pretty sure the italicized was McCoy in reply to Lassus.
No, it was McCoy responding to you. But I did a lousy job of choosing what to quote.

Basically:

Something Other (#912): "There's no film or novel that doesn't do this kind thing." (in reference to taking some liberties with cuts to increase the drama)

McCoy (#914): "Which is why I said "standard zombie movie stereotype"."

me: (#918): "I thought Something Other meant "in any genre" (or at least any action/drama)."

In other words, I thought when you said "There's no film that doesn't do this," you meant not just zombie movies but all action/dramas. Whereas it seems like McCoy thought you meant just zombie movies.

Carry on.
   934. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4085493)
Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think sealing and blocking the doors to a stadium would be easier.

The thing is though that stadiums just don't have a door to the outside. They have vast huge open areas, windows, and many doors on the outside of their walls, including PNC park. Parks just simply are not built with any kind of serious fortifications in mind.

As for the yards issue that is why I suggested older prisons instead of the newer ones. Here is the layout of the old Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia.
   935. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 20, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4085499)
Wow, how'd I miss THIS thread? Man, I hope Jim's new improvements let me set up a special page where I can be alerted to any mentions of Doctor Who and the like.

I've got lots of thoughts on the Doctor Who discussion, but I need to deal with some household chores. Back before long.
   936. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 20, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4085505)
Which would actually be a problem. I learned years ago to drain my push gas mower late every fall. Too often it wouldn't start in the spring on the stale gas that was only five months old. I don't know exactly what the shelf life of gas is, but it's not terribly long. One year? Two? After the ZA people should start learning to raise and ride horses. Within a few years cars will be worthless unless you get yourself a Volt and can maintain a solar array. That will buy you a decade or two, but it's another factor in favor of staying in one place. It's a lot easier to learn these kinds of skills if you've got a bit of a cushion.
2 words: bio-diesel.

   937. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4085529)
Technology would only really go backwards if humanity gives up and cedes vast amounts of territory to the zombies. A lot of things would have to get utterly destroyed for us not to come back within a decade or less. Just think about what is in all the various Wal-Marts, Sears, hardware stores and such. All of the basic tools to rebuild civilization are plentiful and in large amounts throughout this country. I'm not saying they could build nuclear power plants right away or oil refineries that can pump up millions of barrels each day but we most certainly can make a water wheel and have it up and running by the end of the day. So now we have a reliable engine and from there we can make turbines and more and more sophisticated products in short order. Basically for this not to happen the knowledge to do this would have to get wiped out and the people who already have this knowledge would have to be almost extinct. Plus the ability of man to move about the land has to be seriously compromised.
   938. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 20, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4085537)
OK. If there are episodes of the new series you haven't seen yet, then move along, because here be spoilers.

In terms of Doctor Who season finales...if pressed, I would rank them as 2-4-1-3-6-5. 3 was definitely the most egregious of the RTD era in terms of the "reset button" business, but still enjoyable to me because of the dynamic between Simm and Tennant. RTD's rep is that he writes himself into corners that he can't get out of, and I think that's somewhat exaggerated but it definitely happens. On the other hand, there seems to be an alarming number of love-conquers-all endings under Moffat, and the S5 finale is the worst of the lot. Time's been rewritten without the Doctor; none of the things he did ever happened at all, and yet everything is fine if Amy remembers him? Damn. I'm gonna go remember me a Mercedes.

Thing is, Moffat is evidently playing a long game -- or at least, a longer game than RTD ever did. The Silence was/were a part of S5 (in an offscreen fashion), but didn't physically show up until S6. We still haven't learned why the TARDIS exploded at the end of S5. So I almost have to give Moffat an I for Incomplete, because if he makes all of this pay off well in S7 (or in S8, the anniversary season), it'll be awesome. On the other hand, if he doesn't...yow. At least with RTD you got your payoff at season's end and you could more or less judge him on the job he did.

Honestly I think that RTD does/did characters a whole lot better than Moffat. The companions had lives, families, etc. that all seemed very real to me. I don't get that from Moffat; if the characters have friends or family, they seem mostly to serve as plot points or ways to make jokes. On the other hand, I think Moffat is a much stronger plotter, and when he brings his A game, it's just wonderful. On the gripping hand, I'm not sure if any of his S5/S6 stories are as strong as Blink, The Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. Perhaps RTD and Moffat working together is the winning formula.

Both writers do humor well, for the most part, though I think Moffat wins that battle. RTD can do clever humor just fine, but he also has a tendency to do the stupid crap. At least with Moffat we don't get belching trash cans or farting aliens.

I do agree with STEAGLES about the Army of Ghosts/Doomsday finale, which I adore; I think Army of Ghosts' cliffhanger is probably the best the new series has had (though Utopia was pretty damned good).

More later; chores are summoning me again.
   939. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 20, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4085573)
The thing is though that stadiums just don't have a door to the outside. They have vast huge open areas, windows, and many doors on the outside of their walls, including PNC park. Parks just simply are not built with any kind of serious fortifications in mind.
I agree that your average stadium would be very difficult to hole up in or defend, unless you had a very large group of survivors sufficient to ceaselessly patrol and monitor all the possible entry points.

If you've got that many people you may as well find a nice gated hotel property or something.
   940. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 07:02 PM (#4085578)
Well, if you got that many people a whole lot of things open up for you plus a whole bunch of burdens as well. No one structure is really go to be suitable as a permanent residence for a large amount of people. Gated communities on islands would probably the best. Hilton Head Island comes to mind.
   941. McCoy Posted: March 20, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4085604)
Tried watching Gabriel but just couldn't do it. Pretty bad. But it turns out Spartacus was Gabriel.
   942. Something Other Posted: March 20, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4085629)
2 words: bio-diesel
Crap. I forgot about that. So, do we ransack grocery stores for a 20 year stash of corn oil? I'm not sure it's that easy to produce bio-d from an isolated site like a working farm, though. Any idea whether it can be produced without re-opening a factory?

In other words, I thought when you said "There's no film that doesn't do this," you meant not just zombie movies but all action/dramas. Whereas it seems like McCoy thought you meant just zombie movies.
You were right. My error.

I think McCoy's right that stadiums are less secure than prisons, especially newer suburban stadiums versus older prisons, but I don't care. You'll find my looted four-poster king-sized bed over the pitcher's mound at Fenway. It's just too great an idea to dismiss.

Don't most stadiums have huge, open entrances that are only closed with pull-down grates?

Still seems to me that fire's the way to go. Houses take a long time to burn down. A zombie in flames is going to cook pretty fast. So they bounce off the walls of the farmhouse for fifteen seconds before their eyeballs cook--what's the big deal? I'd have had 100 molotov cocktails ready to rumble.

btw, if I happen to survive a zombie apocalypse, there's just no way I'd be able to check into a prison. I'd take my chances on an island not too far from a source of supplies. I'd much rather catch fish than slaughter cattle, and my escape boat would be down the pier from my house. Wind, water, sand... that's for me. Not concrete and steel and more concrete.
   943. Lassus Posted: March 21, 2012 at 09:10 AM (#4085795)
You want more Weeping Angels?

You got more Weeping Angels!

And, more young, pretty female companions.

Meh.
   944. zonk Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:04 AM (#4085838)
I think McCoy's right that stadiums are less secure than prisons, especially newer suburban stadiums versus older prisons, but I don't care. You'll find my looted four-poster king-sized bed over the pitcher's mound at Fenway. It's just too great an idea to dismiss.

Don't most stadiums have huge, open entrances that are only closed with pull-down grates?


This was my thinking -- I was specifically imagining Wrigley Field. I should know this by heart, but if memory serves, there are 3 large gated entrances (plus the little peek-way in the OF wall). They have secure pull-down gates that I think you could easily reinforce just with material from inside the ballpark. If the zombiepocalypse came in the summer, I think it would also be well-stocked with 'food' (and beer!). Assuming you'd stay in the offices and luxury boxes, you'd also good fall positions with the gangways which would bunch the zombies up and allow you block their advance in the hopes of dispatching them. You could also practice a bit of zombie population control from the fencing higher up around the walkways.

Primarily, though - I was thinking that you'd eventually need a secure place to grow food. I guess you have that in a prison, too, but in an urban area -- if you couldn't get out of the city for some reason, I would think a ballpark might be pretty ideal.

Anyway, for all Chicago primates -- if the zombiepocalypse comes, I propose we meet up at Wrigley in the near-term. We'll make our stand there.
   945. McCoy Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4085842)
Head for the Vatican.
   946. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:20 AM (#4085852)
Head for the Vatican.

Typical conservative. Wanting to go straight for a world monopoly on holy water.
   947. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4085857)
Bad advice-- those guys eat body and blood.
   948. zonk Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4085859)
Bad advice-- those guys eat body and blood.


Yeah, but how's the soylent green?
   949. Dale Sams Posted: March 21, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4085886)
So after watching over my wife's shoulder some, and reading ahead...WHY THE HELL WOULD PEOPLE WATCH THIS?? Just unrelenting, depressing brutality. It makes BSG look like Gilligan's Island.
   950. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4085915)
Time's been rewritten without the Doctor; none of the things he did ever happened at all, and yet everything is fine if Amy remembers him? Damn. I'm gonna go remember me a Mercedes.


Many SPOILERS in the following discussion:

I'm not so sure that's what happened, however. We still don't know what the crack in time is, or where it leads.

My current theory is that it leads to one or more alternate universes; that everything was wiped out of one universe, but not in all of them. The crack allows information to cross universes, thus the Doctor (and part of the TARDIS) could cross from one to the other. Amy may act as sort of a conduit since she had a long association with the crack, or that may just be the Doctor lying again. Note that Rory can (sometimes) remember living for 2000 years as a Roman. He also refers to his memory acting as "a door opening and closing" -- perhaps he is accessing memories from an alternate dimension?

Moreover, if the Doctor crossed from one dimension (the kablooie one) to another, that would lead to the possibility of there being two Doctors in the dimension currently being filmed (at least as of the start of Season 6, which is as far as I've gotten). That leads to all sorts of interesting conclusions. Another of my theories is that the figure in the spacesuit that kills the Doctor is, in fact, the Doctor.

But we'll see.
   951. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: March 21, 2012 at 11:54 AM (#4085941)
WHY THE HELL WOULD PEOPLE WATCH THIS?? Just unrelenting, depressing brutality. It makes BSG look like Gilligan's Island.
I'm sortof with you, "realistic" zombies freak me right the #### out and I generally don't watch*. But if you don't mind the gore and whatnot, I think the genre is generally considered pretty rich territory for social commentary, metaphor, etc.

*For some reason, the Resident Evil zombies don't really bug me. Generally, the more phantasmagoric a flick is, the worse for me. (The hell scenes from Event Horizon, Prince of Darkness -- stuff like that ruins me. Whereas a slasher flick or even something like Saw doesn't really get to me.)
   952. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 21, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4086054)
i'm now in the middle of series 6, so i'm pretty close to caught up, but i'm wondering if there's any known connection between the silence and the cybermen?
   953. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 21, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4086259)
i'm now in the middle of series 6, so i'm pretty close to caught up, but i'm wondering if there's any known connection between the silence and the cybermen?

Nope, none that we've seen.

Then again, if you think about it, it must be tough for the Silence (the aliens, not the religious order) to form diplomatic relations or alliances with anyone. Seems to me that that's a race that would pretty much have to be conquerors or invaders or infiltrators or something.
   954. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 21, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4086275)
I'm not so sure that's what happened, however. We still don't know what the crack in time is, or where it leads.

My current theory is that it leads to one or more alternate universes; that everything was wiped out of one universe, but not in all of them. The crack allows information to cross universes, thus the Doctor (and part of the TARDIS) could cross from one to the other. Amy may act as sort of a conduit since she had a long association with the crack, or that may just be the Doctor lying again. Note that Rory can (sometimes) remember living for 2000 years as a Roman. He also refers to his memory acting as "a door opening and closing" -- perhaps he is accessing memories from an alternate dimension?

That's certainly an interesting theory, but there's no real evidence for it unfortunately. We know the cracks were caused by the TARDIS explosion (though we still don't know how that happened), and we were told by the Doctor that anything that goes through one is erased. One would've expected the Doctor to mention the alternate-universe business (though perhaps he does not know).

UNRELATED SPOILERS FOR THE UPCOMING SEASON BELOW!

So we know from today's announcement that there will be 5 episodes this year, plus the Christmas special, with the remaining 8 to run (presumably early) next year. Hopefully they lead into S8 next year as well, and it all adds up to a big to-do for the 50th anniversary.

We know the new companion will be introduced in the Christmas special. We know that Amy and Rory leave in episode 5 (the one before the Christmas special). They leave, according to Moffat, "in a final encounter with the Weeping Angels in ep 5. Not everyone gets out alive and I mean it this time."

I wonder if they really will kill one or both of them. RTD used to say that he'd never do that, as he thought that was too grim for the kind of show Doctor Who is, but of course, Moffat is not RTD. Moffat has often compared the show to a fairy tale, and while I don't really buy into that, fairy tales certainly have been known to have bleak endings/etc.
   955. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 21, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4086302)
Nope, none that we've seen.

Then again, if you think about it, it must be tough for the Silence (the aliens, not the religious order) to form diplomatic relations or alliances with anyone. Seems to me that that's a race that would pretty much have to be conquerors or invaders or infiltrators or something.
but part of their thing is that they can feed ideas into the human mind without a person remembering they did. if they could influence kennedy and nixon to shoot for the moon, why couldn't they have had a hand in creating an army of cybermen? although there's another interesting layer to this, in that the cybermen aren't really human, so would they respond to the silence's hypnotic suggestion, or would they be immune to that?

Not everyone gets out alive and I mean it this time
i really hope they don't kill amy or rory off.
   956. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 21, 2012 at 05:51 PM (#4086303)
oh, and how about this. right now, at this very moment, utopia is being shown on BBC america.
   957. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 21, 2012 at 06:11 PM (#4086325)
SPOILERS FOR UTOPIA

I freaking love Utopia. The A storyline is a bit thin, but it's unimportant as it's designed just to carry you along to the big reveal of who Yana is. (Well, it also sets up a few things for the finale.) I remember the first time I watched it: it was with my daughter. We were watching the new series together for the first time. Of course, I'd been watching the show since the 70's, but aside from one or two viewings I'd talked her into when she was younger, she knew very little about it.

I had no idea who Yana was until he pulled the watch out, and then I knew immediately. I turned to my daughter and said, "Uh oh. This isn't good. At all." She asked me why, but I just clammed up so she could find out on her own. It was an amazing reveal, and when he takes off the the TARDIS at the end, I remember thinking that I'd never seen the Doctor totally ###### like that.
but part of their thing is that they can feed ideas into the human mind without a person remembering they did. if they could influence kennedy and nixon to shoot for the moon, why couldn't they have had a hand in creating an army of cybermen? although there's another interesting layer to this, in that the cybermen aren't really human, so would they respond to the silence's hypnotic suggestion, or would they be immune to that?

The Cybermen are, more or less, human. The non-Cybus Cybermen originally came from Mondas, a world populated by people more or less like us. They started replacing bits of themselves with cybernetic bits until they ended up as Cybermen. (And of course, the Cybus-based Cybermen from the parallel universe are from Earth itself and definitely part human.)
   958. Something Other Posted: March 21, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4086401)
WHY THE HELL WOULD PEOPLE WATCH THIS?? Just unrelenting, depressing brutality. It makes BSG look like Gilligan's Island.

I'm sortof with you, "realistic" zombies freak me right the #### out and I generally don't watch*. But if you don't mind the gore and whatnot, I think the genre is generally considered pretty rich territory for social commentary, metaphor, etc.
There's definite appeal to a show that can compress the utter insanity of this life into a metaphor rich scenario that's theoretically winnable. I realized a while back that, for me, zombies represent all of the run-of-the-mill good folk who never think deeply about a ####### thing and no matter what just keep on comin'. Auuuugh. In a real sense, they never die. They reproduce like bunny rabbits and are as a mass are utterly unkillable. Those are the people who are going to decide the next election. Talk about being devoured, about having your flesh ripped from your bones. The Walking Dead is the horror, the worst, of this existence compressed into comparatively tidy 43 minute packages.

There isn't a zombie walking that's remotely as grotesque, as sickening, as Mitt Romney, whose sole aim seems to be to become President so that America can sh!t ever more millionaires. Some days catharsis is all we have.
   959. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 21, 2012 at 09:05 PM (#4086410)

That's certainly an interesting theory, but there's no real evidence for it unfortunately. We know the cracks were caused by the TARDIS explosion (though we still don't know how that happened), and we were told by the Doctor that anything that goes through one is erased. One would've expected the Doctor to mention the alternate-universe business (though perhaps he does not know).


It may be that he doesn't know. It might also be useful to keep in mind Moffat's mantra, which he repeats over and over: The Doctor Lies.
   960. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 22, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4086807)
Fair enough, SdeB. I've just found that every time I try to figure this stuff out, it later turns out that I've over-thought the whole thing. :)
   961. Something Other Posted: March 23, 2012 at 03:36 AM (#4087286)
Speaking of horror, if you only knew Hitchcock from The Birds you'd conclude he was at best a mediocrity. It's a cliche, that people in horror movies do stupid things, like entering the house known to be haunted for no good reason whatever. In The Birds, there's a scene that takes place not long after it's become clear that something is up with our feathered friends. Tippi Hedren finds herself near a church. She hears children practicing choir. She enters the church, and the plan that she and the singing teacher come up with is to get all the children to leave the church (like every church built before 1950 it has a basement, but, nooooo) and run the mile into town past the birds.

Later, for no reason whatever, she goes exploring in the dark, and enters a room that she can see has a hole in it leading to the outside. That hole is in the roof. Needless to say, she chooses to enter that room, then, as birds begin to attack her, she steps further inside the room and closes the door behind her. Where she promptly remains facing the attacking flock while leaning her weight against the door as she fumbles at the doorknob behind her back. While leaning on the door itself. While facing the attacking birds. Never once does she do what every one of us would do, even in stupid horror movies, which is turn around, away from the things trying to peck us to death, face the door, and open it. After a full minute of this, she slumps to the floor, continuing to block the door. The next scene involves everybody once again leaving the safety of an intact house rather than, you know, giving it a few hours and seeing if the army to shows up.

It takes a whopping forty minutes to even get this lumbering film underway. There's some sort of subplot probably involving some oedipal deal. At another point some random character shrieks that this only started to happen once Tippi showed up in this small town. "You're eeeeeevilllll!" It's an amazingly bad film that's downright ludicrous in places. Even the special effects are noticeable and poorly done. The ending is singularly unsatisfying. Tippi is, not surprisingly, practically comatose at this point. She's put into a car by Rod Taylor, and the group drives off as the birds watch. WTF?
   962. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 23, 2012 at 08:28 AM (#4087314)
Even the special effects are noticeable and poorly done.


The Birds was nominated for an Academy Award in the category of special effects.
   963. Morty Causa Posted: March 23, 2012 at 08:40 AM (#4087325)
Part of the problem with The Birds (it's overrated but not as bad as some hold, is my opinion) is that Hitchcock got ahead of the FX technology.
   964. McCoy Posted: March 23, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4087446)
I think your view of The Birds depends on how you are viewing it. Nowadays we are used to horror flicks with no messages or no intent whatsoever besides trying to gets us to jump in our seat a handful of times. Hitchcock wasn't making that kind of film.
   965. Morty Causa Posted: March 23, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4087481)
No, he wasn't just making that film for thrills, but if you read some of the things he said in interviews, he definitely saw as part of his aesthetic the intentional manipulation of the audience's reactions. He was not at all above jerking the viewer around. Psycho was really just a quickie exploitation film, made on the cheap (for an A-list diretor).

Hitchcock could sometimes in some ways be lazy and careless. He probably thought some things too trivial to worry about. He figured if he could enmesh the viewer in the movie, the little things didn't matter. But when he doesn't enthrall the viewer, those imperfections stand out.

The big problem is his choice of leading lady. She's barely adequate--her looks (and I mean more than just physical attractiveness) redeem her from being considered a total washout. If he needed a "cool" blonde type, he should have used the actress John Ford tried to make a star in The Horse Soldiers and Sergeant Rutledge--Constance Towers. Towers starred in two pretty memorable Sam Fuller B movies, too, and obviously had much better acting chops. Of course, using Towers might have been out of the question, studio systems and performer contracts being what they were then.
   966. Dale Sams Posted: March 23, 2012 at 01:16 PM (#4087586)
I think The Omen (1976) is the perfect 5-tool Horror movie.
   967. Morty Causa Posted: March 23, 2012 at 10:01 PM (#4087967)
What's are the 5 tools?
   968. Dale Sams Posted: March 24, 2012 at 12:53 AM (#4088059)
1. Great Soundtrack

2. Great cast headed by an A+ actor

3. The slightest hint of "Heyy...could that really happen?" Sounds dumb now, but I can't tell you hoe many hours me, my firends and classmates spent trying to figure out who the Anti-Christ could be irl.

4. Great ending

5. Great plot and durability. I've seen The Omen maybe twice or 3 times in 36 years, but I only needed to see it once for certain scenes and lines to stay with me forever. There are some movies I've seen that I couldn't tell you a GD thing about....and actually forgot that I'd seen Point Blank (1967) two years ago until I read a complete synopsis...but that one I ascribe to old age cause it's actually a damn good film.
   969. Something Other Posted: March 24, 2012 at 02:39 PM (#4088313)
Even the special effects are noticeable and poorly done.

The Birds was nominated for an Academy Award in the category of special effects.
And Crash won Best Picture. Your point?

I'm sure in its day Claymation was cutting edge, but there are special effects that are good for their time, and special effects that are simply good, like Kubrick's in 2001. I watched it again last month and was waiting for the seams to show, but they never did.

I'll take a look at The Omen now, Dale. Had heard it was silly, but you make a good case.

I think your view of The Birds depends on how you are viewing it. Nowadays we are used to horror flicks with no messages or no intent whatsoever besides trying to gets us to jump in our seat a handful of times. Hitchcock wasn't making that kind of film.
Messages are fine with me, it's just that the plot is so creaky it's a turn-off. It's 'let's mock the slasher movie for the way the characters behave' bad. I'm also aware of the script's idea of focusing on the cold, detached male lead's relationship to four women, but since he's cold and detached, there's no room in the characters for us to move into. Hitchcock also makes the old mistake of thinking that because his leads are attractive the woman's attraction to the man is credible. It's not. Rod Taylor's a handsome guy. I'll give him that. But Hedren's attraction to him is because he's a handsome guy and because they played at a little North by Northwest banter (which also doesn't hold up well). It just doesn't work.
   970. Something Other Posted: March 24, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4088314)
Dale--if you're of that era, can I assume you've seen the splendid The Candidate?
   971. Something Other Posted: March 24, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4088324)
Just rewatched the last TWD episode. It's better the second time around, now that I've accepted the characters' numbskullish, self-inflicted chaos. Andrea's scramble through the woods looks credible; now that I know what I'm looking at the appearance of Michonne and her "companions" is perfectly creepy; and Carol's line towards the end has the ring of someone middle-aged talking, who grew up somewhere where words like "henchman" are still used.

Lori really does only recoil from Rick at the point where he tells her that Carl shot Shane. Her reaction is that of a mother who can't believe her husband would put their son in a position to do that. Recall how protective she's been, and however it played out she knew that Carl saw Shane as a father figure. She was with Rick right up to that point, even though she was struggling.
   972. Morty Causa Posted: March 24, 2012 at 10:35 PM (#4088591)
Suzanne Pleshette was a much better actress than Hedren. She conveys a sense of a character, a sensitive, bitter woman who was dumped by Taylor (or outgamed by the mother demanding her son's complete devotion). And of course Pleshette's a brunette, so she's got to go. Hedren just brings nothing to her role except her physical presence. She's better in Marnie, but, again, Diane Baker is so much better in that movie, and Marnie is much better than The Birds, although the Freudian stuff is way overdone and taken all too serious. In Psycho, the psychoanalytical explanation was thorough, even convincing in a case study kind of way, and then was neatly subverted in the 30-second finale.
   973. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 24, 2012 at 10:48 PM (#4088597)
3. The slightest hint of "Heyy...could that really happen?" Sounds dumb now, but I can't tell you hoe many hours me, my firends and classmates spent trying to figure out who the Anti-Christ could be irl.
Bud Selig. HTH.
   974. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 24, 2012 at 11:43 PM (#4088616)
i just got through watching the series 6 finale of doctor who. i believe i am all caught up now.

i know that people in this thread talked down about this finale, but honestly, i preferred its ending (and the 5th series' ending) to the endings of seasons 3, 4, and "the end of time". i think that's due to a combination of my really not liking david tenant all that much, and the fact that i think the silence presented a more interesting threat than the master in series 3, and the whole planet-jacker thing from series 4.


having now seen the whole of the rebooted series, my favorite finale is still, by far, the 2nd one. past that, i'd go 5-6-1-3--------4. i think my favorite doctor has to be matt smith. eccleston just didn't have a long enough run. tenant is really nowhere near the conversation.

martha, amy, and rose are still somewhere close together in terms of my favorite companion. i don't think i can give the nod to any one of them, though.


and now, on to series 2 of luther. it's only 4 episodes, and after that, i think i'm gonna try to go through "the colony".
   975. McCoy Posted: March 24, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4088622)
Luther was pretty good but the dynamic between the psychotic woman and Luther was kind of jarring.
   976. cardsfanboy Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:10 AM (#4088630)
i think my favorite doctor has to be matt smith


I still maintain "my favorite doctor is the one I'm watching right now..." no matter the episode(not counting the movies/fox movie of course---and maybe not counting Slyvester McCoy...but I didn't see enough of him to really judge.)

I do think Donna gets the shaft when people rate the companions(even my girlfriend can't stand her) I like Rose a lot, but honestly I would rate her at the bottom of the companion list. That's a high standard when going by the new series, but I just think both Martha and Amy have her outclassed in usefulness and independence and Donna gains points for being the only companion not pining for the Doctor.




   977. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:47 AM (#4088646)


I do think Donna gets the shaft when people rate the companions(even my girlfriend can't stand her) I like Rose a lot, but honestly I would rate her at the bottom of the companion list. That's a high standard when going by the new series, but I just think both Martha and Amy have her outclassed in usefulness and independence and Donna gains points for being the only companion not pining for the Doctor.
i just thought donna was too grating. i did not enjoy her being on screen.

and, up until the 4th series, i would have agreed about rose being the least impressive companion, but i thought she grew past a lot of the complaints i had about her during her guest spots there.

Luther was pretty good but the dynamic between the psychotic woman and Luther was kind of jarring.
it's a very intense show in general. it's very dark, very graphic, and it's hard to watch.

i don't think they're making any more of them, and i actually think that's for the best. it's just not a healthy viewing experience.
   978. Dale Sams Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:50 AM (#4088647)
Dale--if you're of that era, can I assume you've seen the splendid The Candidate?


The Robert Reford film? No, but I've seen 'Jeremiah Johnson" from around that period. My parents took me to the coolest damn films.
   979. cardsfanboy Posted: March 25, 2012 at 01:03 AM (#4088654)
i just thought donna was too grating.


That is by far the most common comment about Donna I hear. I agree to an extent. I'm not really trying to say she was a great companion, and I generally preferred Rose episodes over Donna's as those were just not good episodes. I liked her first two appearances, they were refreshing and especially her second appearance, it showed how just coming into contact with the Doctor changed a persons perspective on the world. You don't see that from either Martha or Rose except when they are fully away from the Doctor and return as guests. And with Amy it has to be spelled out for the viewers as if they are too stupid to grasp the concept.

   980. Greg K Posted: March 25, 2012 at 05:37 AM (#4088694)
I would think castles would beat both prisons and stadiums for zombie defence value. Centuries of fuedalism finally pays off! Us North Americans would be screwed.
   981. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 25, 2012 at 07:40 AM (#4088707)
So, is it time to make this Mad Men/Game of Thrones thread, or what? Man, Sundays are going to rock!
   982. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 25, 2012 at 07:44 AM (#4088708)
Us North Americans would be screwed.

Zombies? Hie thee to Medieval Times in nearby Lyndhurst NJ!
   983. Lassus Posted: March 25, 2012 at 09:52 AM (#4088722)
...and the fact that i think the silence presented a more interesting threat than the master in series 3, and the whole planet-jacker thing from series 4.

I just don't understand how the Silence were good villains. OK, after typing that I can come around a bit immediately. They LOOKED awesome, and the concept was scary. But I really think they and their aims were too vague and "the oldest question" to hackneyed to accept. And I really don't think Moffat's/Doctor's solution (on earth) made any sense, other than to cause complete panic and insanity.
   984. McCoy Posted: March 25, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4088752)
So, is it time to make this Mad Men/Game of Thrones thread, or what? Man, Sundays are going to rock!

A 2 hour season premiere at that, too.
   985. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4088786)
I would think castles would beat both prisons and stadiums for zombie defence value.


In theory, yes, but those which haven't fallen into ruins have generally been modified over the last 800 years to make them more liveable. Moats filled in, portcullises removed, additional entrances added, inconvenient walls torn down, etc.
   986. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4088787)

and, up until the 4th series, i would have agreed about rose being the least impressive companion, but i thought she grew past a lot of the complaints i had about her during her guest spots there.


What grated on me was her Estuarian accent. Give me Amy's subtle Scottish accent any day.
   987. Chicago Joe Posted: March 25, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4088794)
A 2 hour season premiere at that, too.


The problem is, I barely remember what the storyline was from the end of last season.
After tremendous performances by Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones in the interim, and plenty of other cromulent TV popping up as well (Hell on Wheels, Justified, TWD, The Hour) Mad Men kind of needs to step up its game.
   988. McCoy Posted: March 25, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4088813)
Pajiba has a recap and I'm willing to bet Wiki has something as well.

Basically Don foolishly proposed to his nanny/secretary. His other girlfriend called him on it. Saying he liked the beginning of things but couldn't handle the rest. Betty is starting to regret her new life and new husband and desires to come back to Don when Don drops the news of the engagement on her. Last scene is Don waking up with his fiancee next to him and a kind of what have I done look on his face. The agency lost tobacco and Don posted his no more tobacco ads post in the paper. Cooper left in disgust over this. Roger got Joan pregnant and Roger thinks she had the baby aborted but she decides to keep it and tells her husband who is in Vietnam that it is his. Roger does not know about this yet. Not much story on Pete. His wife gave birth to a baby girl but since the actress who plays his wife is busy on shows she has basically been written out of the show. Pete had an affair and they show how he is becoming more and more like a corporate man by routinely comparing him to Cosgrove and how the two treat their family and friends. Peggy is basically just out there exploring and finding herself just like she has been for almost the entirety of the show. She has a lesbian friend her life and Abe who is a radical.

Last season in terms of cliffhangers wasn't much. It was basically what is going to happen to the Draper engagement.

The series probably could have ended after last season so it will be interesting to see whether they can pull this season off or not without becoming repetitive or seriously jolting the show.
   989. Chicago Joe Posted: March 25, 2012 at 01:45 PM (#4088830)
Pajiba has a recap and I'm willing to bet Wiki has something as well.


Thanks for the quick recap. I remembered most of that-I guess what I was getting at was that I don't remember why I cared in the first place.
I think the Cosgrove/Campbell storyline is meant to point up the differences between being a schemer/ambitious and just being feckless/innocent.
Peggy seems to be touching on the themes of "The Conquest of Cool", which is where I though the show was going from the beginning.

The series probably could have ended after last season


Which I think was the intent....IIRC, they were in contract negotiations up until the middle of the airing of last season. I'm trying to remember some shows which were seriously harmed by long hiatuses and can't think of too many.
   990. McCoy Posted: March 26, 2012 at 12:06 AM (#4089134)
Nice welcome back episode but it all seemed, well, mundane. Like a middle of the season episode.
   991. Chicago Joe Posted: March 26, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4089136)
Nice welcome back episode but it all seemed, well, mundane. Like a middle of the season episode.


Yeah, this bordered on boring. A couple of nice touches...the "church steps" comment and the Pete/Peggy/baby interaction were pretty sweet.

The wife was pissed. She thinks they lost it.
   992. Something Other Posted: March 27, 2012 at 02:54 AM (#4089899)
Basically Don foolishly proposed to his nanny/secretary. His other girlfriend called him on it. Saying he liked the beginning of things but couldn't handle the rest.
Which really isn't much of a criticism, what with its being true of just about everyone.

I watched Mad Men Sunday, enjoyed it, must have missed a season (Don remarried? Huh.), and missed about 15 minutes on Sunday but couldn't tell you what I missed, if you know what I mean. I still get a kick out of people smoking in elevators (I remember doing so myself, and in the Empire State Building, no less) on the show, but yeah, have to agree with everyone noting that it could have ended a while back. Wasn't the point Don's redemption? Now we're just hanging around for the feedings, and middle-age.

The Robert Reford film? No, but I've seen 'Jeremiah Johnson" from around that period. My parents took me to the coolest damn films.
Nice. I remember when R-rated mean mature themes, which my parents seemed okay with me watching, as opposed to beheadings and mutilations. The Candidate was groundbreaking 4+ decades ago. Now it won't surprise anyone, but it's still a well-made, well-acted film.
   993.     Hey Gurl Posted: March 27, 2012 at 03:07 AM (#4089902)

The problem is, I barely remember what the storyline was from the end of last season.


Me neither. The only thing I can remember about Mad Men is that I had pretty much completely stopped caring about Don as I could no longer remember which women he was banging.
   994. Something Other Posted: March 27, 2012 at 05:15 AM (#4089911)
Basically Don foolishly proposed to his nanny/secretary. His other girlfriend called him on it. Saying he liked the beginning of things but couldn't handle the rest.
Which really isn't much of a criticism, what with its being true of just about everyone.

I watched Mad Men Sunday, enjoyed it, must have missed a season (Don remarried? Huh.), and missed about 15 minutes on Sunday but couldn't tell you what I missed, if you know what I mean. I still get a kick out of people smoking in elevators (I remember doing so myself, and in the Empire State Building, no less) on the show, but yeah, have to agree with everyone noting that it could have ended a while back. Wasn't the point Don's redemption? Now we're just hanging around for the feedings, and middle-age.

The Robert Reford film? No, but I've seen 'Jeremiah Johnson" from around that period. My parents took me to the coolest damn films.
Nice. I remember when R-rated mean mature themes, which my parents seemed okay with me watching, as opposed to beheadings and mutilations. The Candidate was groundbreaking 4+ decades ago. Now it won't surprise anyone, but it's still a well-made, well-acted film.
   995. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: March 27, 2012 at 08:19 AM (#4089935)
Anyone else still humming "Zou Bisou"?
   996.     Hey Gurl Posted: March 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM (#4090182)
Did you just double-post 3 hours apart?
   997. Something Other Posted: March 27, 2012 at 10:22 PM (#4090783)
Apparently so. Very strange. I suspect the culprit was clicking "submit your comment", getting no result, clicking it again, then having the page take three hours to send the second post.

I've had a ton of "Problem loading" pages lately on btf. They spin idly for hours if I let them.

   998. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 27, 2012 at 11:18 PM (#4090809)
i really hope that justified is going where i think it is. killing limehouse and setting up his underling as next season's main villain would really go a ways towards salvaging that wholly terrible character.

also, i've gotta give major props to whoever's directing the dickie bennett scenes. i absolutely love his haircut, and the way that every single one of his scenes is shot from behind his head just guarantees that his scenes will be among the episode's best.
   999. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: March 28, 2012 at 06:05 PM (#4091685)
just don't understand how the Silence were good villains. OK, after typing that I can come around a bit immediately. They LOOKED awesome, and the concept was scary. But I really think they and their aims were too vague and "the oldest question" to hackneyed to accept. And I really don't think Moffat's/Doctor's solution (on earth) made any sense, other than to cause complete panic and insanity.


I like the concept of the Silence, though you have to wonder how the heck they evolved. But this bit about the question didn't really gel with me either. How can that even be the oldest question? Even if you stipulate that the Time Lords are the oldest race in the Universe (and I don't think that's the case; I suspect things like the Angels, the Eternals, Fenric, etc. pre-date them), surely other questions came up before that one.

Which ties into the whole "we get our word for healer ('Doctor') from you" meme that I'm not crazy about either. Why only in English? Surely it'd be "Doctor" in every language, wouldn't it? Plus, "The Sound of Drums" sort of implied otherwise: the Master gave the Doctor crap for choosing that hame. "'Doctor,'" he said, "the man who makes everyone better. How sanctimonious is that?"

Then again, I evidently once encouraged Moffat on the whole we-got-the-name-from-you thing (link), though I don't remember doing so, so maybe I should just shut up on the matter.

Current rumor is that we'll get 5 eps this year plus the Christmas special (this is actually confirmed), followed by 8 more episodes of S7 in 2013 (also confirmed). After that, the talk is that instead of a normal start-of-a-season in 2013, we'll get a couple of "feature-length" (90 min-ish) anniversary specials for the 50th, plus the Christmas special.

That part isn't confirmed, and the BBC changes things all the time, so don't bank on it. If it does happen, it's kind of a bummer, though in minutes onscreen it's really just like losing one episode, I guess.
   1000. starving to death with a full STEAGLES Posted: March 29, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4092487)
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