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Wednesday, January 08, 2014

Deadspin’s HOF Vote Revealed

Pretty good ballot - Martinez, the only rogue choice, polled well.

Guts Posted: January 08, 2014 at 03:28 PM | 76 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4633868)
Surprised Mattingly got 50%.
   2. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:53 PM (#4633887)
Le Batard is a fairly big name.

I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the silliness of the steroids issue. Likely the Hall will ignore it, as they are wont to do. But he does make them look absurd.
   3. bigglou115 Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4633893)
I was ready to think this was a hack move. When I heard it was Le Batard I thought of him as an entertaining guy who isn't exactly a rocket scientist so it was weird. When I read his write up I was stunned. It was perfect.
   4. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:57 PM (#4633895)
I tip my hat to Dan.
   5. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: January 08, 2014 at 04:58 PM (#4633896)
I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the silliness of the steroids issue.


I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the name "Dan Le Batard."
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:02 PM (#4633911)
I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the name "Dan Le Batard."

Doesn't that translate as "Dan The Bastard"?
   7. PepTech Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:05 PM (#4633924)
Strangely, it actually translates to "Murray the Bastard".
   8. Fanshawe Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4633928)
Not that Deadspin readers represent a perfect sample of fans or anything, but the performance of the steroid guys on the ballot (especially relative to the BBWAA Super Kool Kidz PED Detective Club) does nothing to change my belief that the average fan cares about steroids only to the extent that it allows him to make jokes about alleged users on other teams.
   9. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4633930)
I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the name "Dan Le Batard."

And, whether coincidentally or not, ESPN.

Do not feed that troll machine.
   10. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4633931)
I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the name "Dan Le Batard."

And, whether coincidentally or not, ESPN, who now has in-house fodder for their in-house troll machine to pick over for days.

   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:10 PM (#4633933)
I was ready to think this was a hack move. When I heard it was Le Batard I thought of him as an entertaining guy who isn't exactly a rocket scientist so it was weird.


IIRC, he's somewhat sympathetic to sabermetrics, he's sympathetic to the PED users, and he's very contrarian, so its not surprising at all.
   12. PepTech Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:12 PM (#4633938)
So checking the ESPN site, Le Batard is not among those staffers credited with submitting ballots. Was this purged after this announcement? Anyone know?
   13. dave h Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:19 PM (#4633951)
Also interestingly, he wasn't supposed to be the vote - he was a contingency plan.
   14. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:22 PM (#4633954)
So checking the ESPN site, Le Batard is not among those staffers credited with submitting ballots. Was this purged after this announcement? Anyone know?


He doesn't write for ESPN, so he wouldn't be included in their dump. He still writes for the Miami Herald.
   15. PepTech Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:31 PM (#4633966)
Is Highly Questionable still on? He may not write regular columns, but he's certainly an employee. I think he's on ESPNRadio, too.

Not trying to be nitpicky. Just wondering if there's any attempt by ESPN to distance themselves for some reason. Maybe we'll see an ombudsman column about this.
   16. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:32 PM (#4633970)
If Posnanski were to put a poll up on his personal site and tell his readers that the vote would be decided by the voting, would they strip Poz of his ballot? Would that be any different? No money changed hands here.
   17. GregD Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:35 PM (#4633974)
Wonder if we'll ever find out the backstory behind the original voter Deadspin had lined up that then fell through but plans to pay next year? Sounds confusing.
   18. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:37 PM (#4633978)
Highly Questionable is still on. I like watching it, but I understand its not for everyone. He is on ESPNRadio (it gets cross-promoted in the show).
   19. steagles Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4633980)
Is Highly Questionable still on? He may not write regular columns, but he's certainly an employee. I think he's on ESPNRadio, too.
yep. weekdays on ESPN2 at 4PM, except when it's at 3PM or 2:25 PM or 4:40 PM.

it used to be the best talking head show on ESPN by a mile, and it's still pretty good, but the tone has gotten noticeably more grouchy over the last while, and it's taken my opinion of it down a bit.

   20. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:39 PM (#4633982)
Not that Deadspin readers represent a perfect sample of fans or anything, but the performance of the steroid guys on the ballot (especially relative to the BBWAA Super Kool Kidz PED Detective Club) does nothing to change my belief that the average fan cares about steroids only to the extent that it allows him to make jokes about alleged users on other teams.


None of the 'steroid guys' got anything close to 75%. In fact, the support for the players followed the order of the BBWAA almost exactly.
   21. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:41 PM (#4633984)
Is Highly Questionable still on? He may not write regular columns, but he's certainly an employee. I think he's on ESPNRadio, too.


He's an employee of the network. But only the guys who write for the website are included in their ballot count. He's never been included in it, as far as I know. They may want to distance themselves now, but they didn't have to do so through their ballot display.

If Posnanski were to put a poll up on his personal site and tell his readers that the vote would be decided by the voting, would they strip Poz of his ballot? Would that be any different? No money changed hands here.


I think the last part is the key. As long as he's not peddling his vote, I don't see anything wrong with it.
   22. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: January 08, 2014 at 05:58 PM (#4634013)
Mattingly outperformed Mussina, Trammell, and Walker on Deadspin's polling. Martinez and Bagwell outperformed Bonds and Clemens.
   23. TDF, situational idiot Posted: January 08, 2014 at 06:23 PM (#4634040)
None of the 'steroid guys' got anything close to 75%.
Clemens was at 66.6%, Bonds at 64.9%; I'd call that "close" (if they polled that well with the writers, they'd be justified in thinking they might get in next year). That's also about double the percentage they got from the writers.
In fact, the support for the players followed the order of the BBWAA almost exactly.
Yes, with the exception of Morris (#6 writers/#17 Deadspin) and Martinez (#14/#6).
   24. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 08, 2014 at 06:34 PM (#4634047)
I think there may have been some Edgar Martinez ballot-stuffing going on.
   25. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 06:37 PM (#4634049)
Yeah, I never thought Deadspin was actually going to be paying for the vote. I expected something like this, or like what they're talking about doing next year (donation to charity).

I'm happy with the ballot, the only result that really surprises me is how high Mattingly was (over 50%? really?). Good on Le Batard and Deadspin. Also, the Deadspin voters, if held to the same 75% standard as the BBWAA, would have elected 5 players this year, not three. The masses are wiser than the elite, in this case.
   26. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: January 08, 2014 at 06:59 PM (#4634067)
Deadspin readers are clearly better at voting than BBWAA members, as would be any other large group of baseball fans. This article was awesome.
   27. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:02 PM (#4634071)
So I presume that the BBWAA will either throw Le Batard out of the organization or pull his voting privileges?

And if they don't act, will the Hall act?
   28. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:03 PM (#4634073)
Is Conlin still a "member in good standing"?

Did he vote?
   29. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:12 PM (#4634082)
I suspect Le Batard's motivation has less to do with the HoF than raising his own profile. Higher ratings means more $$ from ESPN, or someone else.
   30. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:28 PM (#4634086)
Follow up to my 27 and 28: Do/will the media outlets Le Batard preens for take issue with him doing this?

Tom N. and SoSH I believe are/were journalists, yes? Thoughts from you guys?
   31. God Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:31 PM (#4634089)
ESPN has already issued a statement basically saying that they didn't know about it and wish he wouldn't have done it, and emphasizing that his vote is on behalf of the Miami Herald and not ESPN.
   32. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: January 08, 2014 at 07:50 PM (#4634103)
ESPN has already issued a statement basically saying that they didn't know about it and wish he wouldn't have done it, and emphasizing that his vote is on behalf of the Miami Herald and not ESPN.

And they've headlined it on their website.

The "denials" are just setting up the "controversy" which they'll milk for a few days -- it's the ESPN way. Skip Knowless will probably be trolling about it tomorrow.
   33. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:28 PM (#4634126)
I'm mildly surprised Le Batard didn't clear this with his employers first.

(Presuming he didn't. I know I'm not properly accounting for TEH CONSPIRACY.)
   34. cardsfanboy Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:34 PM (#4634131)

(Presuming he didn't. I know I'm not properly accounting for TEH CONSPIRACY.)


You have to look at who is promoting this conspiracy.... I have never ever been able to grasp mankind's willingness to assume the absurd in order to believe in some grand unifying plan. Anyone that believes in any conspiracy has a few screws missing.
   35. DA Baracus Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:35 PM (#4634132)
I'm mildly surprised Le Batard didn't clear this with his employers first.


There's no way ESPN would have cleared it.
   36. Select Storage Device Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:36 PM (#4634134)
I love everything about this.

Deadspin gets a lot of hate here but I don't think it's totally warranted.
   37. cardsfanboy Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:38 PM (#4634136)
Deadspin gets a lot of hate here but I don't think it's totally warranted.


Who is hating on it? They get a lot of hate from other writers who think that there is something sacred about their vote. But not sure who on here is having a problem with it.
   38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:51 PM (#4634143)
Who is hating on it? They get a lot of hate from other writers who think that there is something sacred about their vote. But not sure who on here is having a problem with it.


Any time a story involving Deadspin comes up, Lassus can usually be counted on to step up and talk about how scummy and despicable he thinks they are.
   39. Select Storage Device Posted: January 08, 2014 at 08:53 PM (#4634146)
Who is hating on it? They get a lot of hate from other writers who think that there is something sacred about their vote. But not sure who on here is having a problem with it.


This story? No one, I guess. Because it's awesome.

I could do a search for previous cases where DS articles were linked not related to this story and find plenty of cherry-picked examples, were I not so lazy at the moment.

To add some value here I hope that some of the "national conversation" steers enough attention away from Le Batard and the controversy to spend a bit on a fairly interesting poll on who the actual fans of this game want to see enshrined. The electorate is clearly off about a certain subsection of players.

And Don Mattingly.

Edit: Heck, and Fred McGriff.

I recall a piece somewhere describing Deadspin's demographic as college degree holding thirty-somethings. Makes sense in that context.
   40. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:03 PM (#4634158)
I don't see anyone hating Deadspin. I do see a certain amount of Kremlinology being performed on le Batard's motivations, but that's to be expected from people who have a total vacuum of information or understanding.
   41. Lassus Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:12 PM (#4634162)
Any time a story involving Deadspin comes up, Lassus can usually be counted on to step up and talk about how scummy and despicable he thinks they are.

I was thrilled when I came across Deadspin in 2005, and was a regular visitor for over a year, maybe over two. As time went by and the stories got trashier, meaner, more sexist, and the commentariat made an exponential game out of expanding those qualities, I did find it pathetic and gross enough to permanently stop going. As the links variously came across my vision over the following four or five years, I found little to change my opinion. I have heard and even seen of improvements in the past couple of years, and I have no problem changing my opinion. Am I still biased when I see their masthead? Absolutely, I can admit that.

As far as this story goes, I actually have always liked LeBetard when I've heard him speak, he's been self-deprecating, funny, and often insightful. I thought his explanation of his reasoning (On Deadspin! I clicked!) was well-written and meaningful, even if I think his reverse sanctimony was a bit over-the-top. All his points were excellent, and I'm glad it's getting as much attention (as Ray notes in #2) as it is.
   42. The District Attorney Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:14 PM (#4634164)
I recall a piece somewhere describing Deadspin's demographic as college degree holding thirty-somethings. Makes sense in that context.
I'm sure their demographic is a lot more stat-friendly than Yahoo or whatever. But on the other hand:

1) Deadspin covers all sports, so I'm sure a lot of people voted who aren't baseball fans, and
2) Deadspin probably has a lot of readers who don't even care much about any sport in terms of on-field results, but enjoy the "soap opera"/"behind the scenes" meta-view.

Don Mattingly is more famous, in the dictionary sense, than most of the guys on the ballot. So I'm not surprised to see DS voting for him.

(And I also do suspect that some fanbases tried to organize ballot stuffing in favor of their guys. Which one can't blame them for, really -- this may well have been a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have any direct say whatsoever in the HOF process.)
   43. Jeltzandini Posted: January 08, 2014 at 09:21 PM (#4634172)
As time went by and the stories got trashier, meaner, more sexist, and the commentariat made an exponential game out of expanding those qualities, I did find it pathetic and gross enough to permanently stop going.


Will Leitch started the site, and he's a good writer and decent person. He left in 2008 and was replaced by A.J. Daulerio, who basically turned it into what you're talking about here. He left in I think 2011 (promoted within the empire but no longer responsible for Deadspin) and it has returned to OKness.

   44. Cooper Nielson Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:25 PM (#4634203)
Dan Le Batard is one of my favorite columnists. I'm glad it was him who did this, and I hope something positive comes out of it.
   45. Guts Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:26 PM (#4634205)
Don Mattingly is more famous, in the dictionary sense, than most of the guys on the ballot. So I'm not surprised to see DS voting for him.

Mattingly was not on the ballot, he just polled better among the public than the BBWAA. The ballot was:

Greg Maddux
Frank Thomas
Tom Glavine
Mike Piazza
Craig Biggio
Edgar Martínez
Jeff Bagwell
Roger Clemens
Barry Bonds
Curt Schilling

I think the BBTF ideal ballot would switch out Martinez for Raines, but otherwise I think it's the same ballot we'd submit.
   46. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:39 PM (#4634211)
Will Leitch started the site, and he's a good writer and decent person. He left in 2008 and was replaced by A.J. Daulerio, who basically turned it into what you're talking about here. He left in I think 2011 (promoted within the empire but no longer responsible for Deadspin) and it has returned to OKness.


I think it's actually better than OK these days, with the exception of a couple of their writers, but I agree that Daulerio was the worst. Ugh. He was terrible at Deadspin, and he's been pretty shitty as EiC of Gawker. Oversaw the creation of the Neetzan Zimmerman era, which is what lead me to stop reading that website.
   47. God Posted: January 08, 2014 at 10:55 PM (#4634221)
In the past calendar year Daulerio has quit Gawker, been hired as an editor at SpinMedia, and quit SpinMedia.
   48. valuearbitrageur Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:01 PM (#4634225)
So I presume that the BBWAA will either throw Le Batard out of the organization or pull his voting privileges?

And if they don't act, will the Hall act?


Do they have any rules that prohibit this? It would be supreme irony if they revoke Dan's voting privileges, or kick him out of the BBWAA, yet keep members who did far worse things such as turning in empty ballots, or ballots with a single selection.

I suspect Le Batard's motivation has less to do with the HoF than raising his own profile. Higher ratings means more $$ from ESPN, or someone else.


Who cares what his motivation is? He did an awesome thing for the fans, baseball, and the Hall, is certainly going to take some heat for it, so any benefits he gains are going to be richly deserved.
   49. Tom Nawrocki Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:03 PM (#4634227)
In response to Ray, my expectation is that Le Batard's various employers might tut-tut this move in public, but applaud it in private. A columnist's job is to create controversy and attract eyeballs, which is exactly what he has done.

Le Batard's apologia was actually kind of touching. It seems like he was truly doing this for honorable reasons. I don't think there will be any other repercussions, although, as he notes, he might very well lose his vote in future elections.

Coincidentally, one of my co-workers today was telling me about an old boss of his, a sports editor who had stopped covering the game but still had a vote. Every year, he'd poll the sports desk and fill out his HoF ballot based on the results. If Le Batard loses his vote, guys like that should lose their vote too.
   50. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:36 PM (#4634237)
I suspect Le Batard's motivation has less to do with the HoF than raising his own profile. Higher ratings means more $$ from ESPN, or someone else.

Who cares what his motivation is? He did an awesome thing for the fans, baseball, and the Hall, is certainly going to take some heat for it, so any benefits he gains are going to be richly deserved.

The point is, he didn't do anything "for the fans". He seized an opportunity to boost his own career. A single so-so ballot from Deadspin's readers isn't making any significant point.
   51. Lassus Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:37 PM (#4634238)
I suspect Le Batard's motivation has less to do with the HoF than raising his own profile. Higher ratings means more $$ from ESPN, or someone else.

The point is, he didn't do anything "for the fans". He seized an opportunity to boost his own career. A single so-so ballot from Deadspin's readers isn't making any significant point.


I can't fathom why no one is ever possible of acting because of their conscience, ever.
   52. Select Storage Device Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:38 PM (#4634241)
Don Mattingly is more famous


Yup. To clarify, I meant mostly it made sense in the 30-something context, because even a non-Yankee fan pulling a Don Mattingly in a pack of Upper Deck in 1991 felt better than snagging Jack Morris, even if they both weren't worth beans.
   53. Select Storage Device Posted: January 08, 2014 at 11:46 PM (#4634247)
I think it's actually better than OK these days, with the exception of a couple of their writers, but I agree that Daulerio was the worst. Ugh. He was terrible at Deadspin, and he's been pretty shitty as EiC of Gawker. Oversaw the creation of the Neetzan Zimmerman era, which is what lead me to stop reading that website.


I appreciated that Daulerio had no time for heroes, and that he had no shame in exposing himself as an a-hole for ethos' sake.

The Neetzan era was always going to happen. It just happened to be a guy named Neetzan.
   54. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:44 AM (#4634270)
The Neetzan era was always going to happen. It just happened to be a guy named Neetzan.


That's probably true. Oh well, now I'm so hip I read The Awl. And even moreso, I read The Toast. Suck it, old media Dentonpire.
   55. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 01:02 AM (#4634278)
Thanks Tom.

   56. Select Storage Device Posted: January 09, 2014 at 04:07 AM (#4634320)
That's probably true. Oh well, now I'm so hip I read The Awl. And even moreso, I read The Toast. Suck it, old media Dentonpire.


The upworthy way to say this would be:

"Two life-after-Gawker sites that changed my life for the better forever."
   57. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 09, 2014 at 06:41 AM (#4634329)
I think he has succeeded in bringing attention to the name "Dan Le Batard."

Doesn't that translate as "Dan The Bastard"?

Actually it translates to "Dan, the loaf of bread".
   58. Andy McGeady Posted: January 09, 2014 at 07:01 AM (#4634332)
3. bigglou115 Posted: January 08, 2014 at 03:57 PM (#4633893)

I was ready to think this was a hack move. When I heard it was Le Batard I thought of him as an entertaining guy who isn't exactly a rocket scientist so it was weird. When I read his write up I was stunned. It was perfect.

Yep.

My eyes rolled when I heard it was LeBatard but that letter is simply perfect. To paraphrase a comment I saw on Twitter, the only bad thing about the whole giving-a-ballot-to-Deadspin thing was that LeBatard's letter couldn't be published sooner.
   59. Daunte Vicknabbit! Posted: January 09, 2014 at 07:35 AM (#4634333)
Deadspin is mostly a ########, but there are good things to be found there and this story is most certainly one of them. Dan Le Batard was terrible ten years ago and I despised him as a South Floridian but he's done a lot to redeem himself over the last decade and this is finally the feather in his cap.

I am a Le Batard man.
   60. JE (Jason) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 09:21 AM (#4634352)
Surprise! Mike Greenberg of Mike & Mike was totally against what the writer did ... until he found out it was an ESPN guy gave it more consideration: "I stand with Dan LeBatard today."
   61. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 09:45 AM (#4634367)
Surprise! Mike Greenberg of Mike & Mike was totally against what the writer did ... until he found out it was an ESPN guy gave it more consideration: "I stand with Dan LeBatard today."


Or, according to him, until he saw the ballot and read what Dan wrote. I would imagine that is the typical response for a lot of people. Initial anger leading into understanding.
   62. jmurph Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4634511)
Will Leitch started the site, and he's a good writer and decent person. He left in 2008 and was replaced by A.J. Daulerio, who basically turned it into what you're talking about here. He left in I think 2011 (promoted within the empire but no longer responsible for Deadspin) and it has returned to OKness.


No, the site was reprehensible when Leitch ran it, too, including lots of creepiness involving Erin Andrews. I'm sure Leitch very much appreciates that Daulerio made it even worse, though, so that he looks better in comparison.

Like Lassus, though, I've heard enough to believe that it's better now than it used to be. I'm still pretty hesitant to click on a deadspin link, though.
   63. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:15 PM (#4634528)
Tom N. and SoSH I believe are/were journalists, yes? Thoughts from you guys?


To follow up on Tom's post. I see no problem with what LeBatard did (I have a much bigger problem with what Murray wrote in his column about sending in a blank ballot to spite his detractors).

I would have had a problem with someone actually accepting money for the vote (even if the money went to charity), but that doesn't appear to be the case.

It will be interesting to see if any effort is made to remove his vote. I don't think there will be.
   64. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:34 PM (#4634551)
I listened to LeBatard's show yesterday because of the ballot. It was funny when Dan/Stu Gatz read ESPNs statement "Dan got his vote from the Miami Herald, not us, blah blah" while the Herald said "Dan is a freelancer now for us but works for ESPN".
   65. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:37 PM (#4634557)
To follow up on Tom's post. I see no problem with what LeBatard did (I have a much bigger problem with what Murray wrote in his column about sending in a blank ballot to spite his detractors).

I would have had a problem with someone actually accepting money for the vote (even if the money went to charity), but that doesn't appear to be the case.


Thanks.
   66. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: January 09, 2014 at 12:55 PM (#4634583)
I listened to LeBatard's show yesterday because of the ballot. It was funny when Dan/Stu Gatz read ESPNs statement "Dan got his vote from the Miami Herald, not us, blah blah" while the Herald said "Dan is a freelancer now for us but works for ESPN".


What's in the box, Heisenberg?
   67. Fanshawe Posted: January 09, 2014 at 01:33 PM (#4634644)
Has anyone seen any statement from the a writer or the BBWWA (or anywhere else) that gives an actual compelling reason why this was bad or wrong? I've mostly seen a lot of "it's wrong" tautologies and "he's in it for the attention" which is, at best, a reason why LeBetard might be a jerk, but not why filling out his ballot this way is wrong. The closest I've seen to an actual reason is "the fans are unqualified" which could be a good reason in the abstract, but is a pretty tough sell here where (1) the deadspin ballot is a match or near match for many ballots from writers and (2) you have laughingstocks like Gurnick and Chass running around without any condemnation (that I've seen) from the writers.
   68. Mark Donelson Posted: January 09, 2014 at 01:55 PM (#4634663)
Has anyone seen any statement from the a writer or the BBWWA (or anywhere else) that gives an actual compelling reason why this was bad or wrong?


Chad Jennings of LoHud wrote at some length about it today. Personally, I don't really agree with his reasoning, but he explains it reasonably fully.
   69. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: January 09, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4634671)
Deadspin voters got a 98 on Tango's ballot score.
   70. Fanshawe Posted: January 09, 2014 at 02:11 PM (#4634682)
Chad Jennings of LoHud wrote at some length about it today. Personally, I don't really agree with his reasoning, but he explains it reasonably fully.


It's certainly a longer explanation but I don't really think it's a better one. Jennings is basically making a tone argument, "Le Batard makes some perfectly fine points in his explanation. Unfortunately, I’m afraid they’re going to be washed away in what seems to be a publicity stunt."

I actually think Jennings gives away the game in his opening paragraph,

"The whole thing was embarrassing to those of us in the industry — if a Hall vote is up for grabs, what’s next?"

This is just iteration #1958725 of who let those peasants into my castle. The problem is not that the fans are unqualified, but that the deadspin ballot reveals that becoming qualified for a Hall of Fame vote, or at least as qualified as the average 10-year BBWAA member, is fairly easy to accomplish.

Edit to Add:

Or to put it more simply:

Deadspin voters got a 98 on Tango's ballot score.
   71. PepTech Posted: January 09, 2014 at 02:58 PM (#4634744)
I caught Le Batard on Mike & Mike this morning. I came in just as the hosts were concluding the tease, and heard all the parts with Le Batard. Both Greenberg did say he was swayed by the explanation and was on Le Batard's "side", such as it were. Golic said that even though it pained him, he too supported Le Batard (previous disagreements were alluded to). They played the Kornheiser/Wilbon slamming of Le Batard in the teaser, and both Mikes were surprised at the apparent emotion from the PTI guys.

During the actual interview, Le Batard said that if the ballot he'd been given had consisted of Jacque Jones, JT Snow, and Mike Timlin, he "probably wouldn't" have gone through with it. Having it be a sensible ballot made it easier. He did say that he was wrong to out himself so quickly - he basically apologized for taking the spotlight away from the inductees (easy to say after the fact, but he did sound sincere). He said if he were to run it all over he would have waited at least a day.

They asked if there were any surprises in the aftermath and Le Batard said yes - he was surprised that the public seemed overwhelmingly positive towards this, and his "brethren" were overwhelmingly negative. He thought there'd be more of a mix on both sides.

Greenberg then asked what we'd been sort of asking here - what if some columnist or other said "look, I've got nine, and I'm trying to decide between Martinez and Raines for the tenth spot, I'll take your comments and let you decide? Would that have been acceptable? If so, what's the real difference between that and this?" All three men stated they thought it was the same thing and shouldn't be a big deal.

Le Batard also said he'd been trying to make changes from whatever pulpit he has had for the last ten years, and not getting anywhere, so this was effective in getting the conversation going. As for an actual change he'd like to see, he said that the main thing would be to remove the artificial cap of 10.
   72. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 09, 2014 at 04:13 PM (#4634893)
Le Batard also said he'd been trying to make changes from whatever pulpit he has had for the last ten years . . .

Is that really true? Don't recall a lot of Le Batard links here, but that could be the fault of Repoz & the Miami-area Primates. Still, there is a big difference between a columnist making an issue a priority and tossing off a few comments. If LeBatard, or anyone else in the BBWAA was leading a campaign to change the voting process, the effort seems rather stealthy.
   73. HMS Moses Taylor Posted: January 09, 2014 at 04:14 PM (#4634894)
Dan Le Batard Show ?@LeBatardShow 11m
Max penalty: BBWAA just lifetime banned me from Hall of Fame vote and won't allow me to attend a game as credentialed media for a year.
   74. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2014 at 04:20 PM (#4634906)
When Murray Chass threatened to send in a blank ballot in future elections to spite his detractors, I sent an e-mail to the BBWAA (and the Hall) registering my complaint. I thought it was disgraceful that a Hall voter could be using his vote in such a way, and that it shouldn't be tolerated (though I didn't propose specific action).

I got a letter from the BBWAA (not the Hall) in response. One part of that letter said:

As for what the BBWAA and the Hall can do, are you suggesting we tell people how to vote? That would truly damage the process.


I fail to see how one can reconcile the above statement with LeBatard's lifetime ban. That's pretty much telling him how he can vote.

If there's something in the Hall or BBWAA's bylaws that supports such an action, I'd love to see it.
   75. spike Posted: January 09, 2014 at 04:48 PM (#4634960)
"I don't want 28 people entering the Hall at once, so I limited my checks on the ballot to three. That ought to be enough to go along with the three managers. Angst returns next year." - Marty Noble, HoF Voter
   76. Danny Posted: January 09, 2014 at 07:39 PM (#4635182)
Le Batard also said he'd been trying to make changes from whatever pulpit he has had for the last ten years, and not getting anywhere, so this was effective in getting the conversation going. As for an actual change he'd like to see, he said that the main thing would be to remove the artificial cap of 10.

I don't see how this was "effective" in starting a conversation about changing the 10-slot maximum.

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