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Thursday, March 13, 2014

Dee Gordon reminds some of Maury Wills and that’s good for Dodgers - latimes.com

Maury Wills or Lenny Faedo?

Baseball-Reference’s Similar Batters through 25:
1. Lenny Faedo (976)
2. Angel Sanchez (974)
3. Jim Brideweser (970)
4. Doc Marshall (968)
5. Roxey Roach (965)
6. Ed Montague (962)
7. Harry Decker (961)
8. Ed Rowen (961)
9. Wilson Delgado (958)
10. Ed Busch (958)

Edit: Link fixed. Sorry. JF

Jim Furtado Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:27 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dee gordon, dodgers, don mattingly, maury wills

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:42 PM (#4671023)
But Dee Gordon contains potassium benzoate and that's bad for Dodgers.
   2. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 13, 2014 at 03:46 PM (#4671025)
The linked headline loops back to this page. Here's the proper link.

I'd assumed that the point of the article was that Gordon is entering his age-26 season sporting a 256/301/312 career line, and that Wills, also a fast Dodgers shortstop, he entered his age-26 season having just hit 253/300/328 in Spokane. I was going to say that this reminded me of those "Oliver Perez is similar to Sandy Koufax" stories of several years ago, following the argument that because this player is as crappy as a late-bloomer of yore was at the same point, this player will become as good as that late bloomer became. All live-armed lefties with control problems become Sandy Koufax, just as all fast shortstops who hit a punchless .220 turn into perpetual All-Stars.

Then I read the article and saw that Wills sees some of his style in Gordon, mainly the speed and strong arm, and then expresses a bit of an "Attaboy, tiger" sentiment. Ah well.
   3. bookbook Posted: March 13, 2014 at 04:28 PM (#4671057)
All live-armed lefties with control problems become Sandy Koufax
- It's about time they start becoming Randy Johnson. More career value.
   4. attaboy Posted: March 13, 2014 at 04:37 PM (#4671068)
Maury Wills, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA, awesome!
   5. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 13, 2014 at 05:27 PM (#4671108)
He reminds me of Chad Fonville.
   6. Publius Publicola Posted: March 13, 2014 at 05:30 PM (#4671113)
What's Doris Day's hotness quotient these days?
   7. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: March 13, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4671120)
Maury Wills, HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA, awesome!


I should probably RTFA -- but if this is an indictment of Wills, the legend (as in, some vocal folks who thought he deserved more HoF consideration) -- OK.... but if it's he might be as good as Wills with the idea of Wills as an ideal, that's not half-bad. Wills was overrated, but he was what... a 40 WAR player?

If, on the other hand, it's a matter of Gordon isn't close to being "borderline Hall of Very Good" - then carry on... I concur.
   8. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: March 13, 2014 at 06:29 PM (#4671160)
Dee Gordon is both black and fast. QED.
   9. Walt Davis Posted: March 13, 2014 at 07:16 PM (#4671184)
Is Hanley moving to 3B? Otherwise Dee Gordon ain't getting any playing time so it doesn't really matter who he really is.

Guys with his sort of speed do often get a chance (Chuck Carr got 1900 PA for crying out loud) but I'd guess he's got about another 600 PA to hit a bit or field a lot or he's done. But there's no particularly good reason he can't turn into Tony Womack who didn't get a chance until he was 27. In fact Gordon's AAA year last year looks a lot like Womack's age 26 AAA season and the rest of their minors careers looks close enough too. No reason to think he can repeat them in the majors, but his AAA numbers last year were Luis Castillo or Chone Figgins (career, Figgins had more power at his peak and in the minors). If Gordon could add playing a decent SS, he's got a real shot at a career.

See also David Eckstein and Ryan Theriot. Theriot's age 25 at AA and half-26 at AAA look a lot like Gordon's 2013 too. Eckstein was clearly better at younger ages and walked a ton but his age 25 season was not that impressive (possibly a BABIP fluke).

On Wills -- yeah. Context! Wills had 5 seasons when he was above average -- with the bat! For his career, with the bat, he was only -90 in 12-13 full seasons worth -- so -7.5 per season, hardly atrocious. His Rbase/Rdp essentially bring him back to a dead average offensive player. Dead average offensive players at SS have good value.

Luis Castillo, playing through the heart of the sillyball era, put up a line of 290/368/351. An ISO of 61 in that era ... and, thanks to his excellent OBP, that's only -6 Rbat. Add Rbase/Rdp and you have an above-average offensive player. Until his defense fell apart at the end, he was well above-average.
   10. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:08 PM (#4671205)
I hope these "some" aren't speaking managerially.

   11. Matt Welch Posted: March 13, 2014 at 08:29 PM (#4671213)
Wills is 17th all-time among shortstops since 1901 with WAR from age 26 on.

Also, this has been a perennial Dodgers spring training story since I was a kid. Just learn how to bunt! Chop down on the ball and use your speed! Just like Maury Wills, says Maury Wills!
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: March 14, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4671674)

"Is Hanley moving to 3B? Otherwise Dee Gordon ain't getting any playing time so it doesn't really matter who he really is."

Gordon is considered the frontrunner to be the starting 2B when the season opens.

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