I’ve been surprised to learn that some baseball writers have declared that they’ll vote for Bonds and Clemens because they were the best players in an era when drug use was widespread — ergo if there’s a lot of guilt going around, then nobody should be assigned guilt.
Of course, we do not know how many baseball players took steroids, but it certainly never involved more than a small percentage. It was never, for example, like the Tour de France where drugs were as common as toothpaste. But what the baseball writers must not forget is that the dopers did not just pad their own statistics. They keep score in games; by definition, sports are zero sum. By taking unfair advantage, the druggies hurt the players who played fair.
...But just because it was a drug era in baseball does not mean, so glibly, well, everybody did it. To vote for Bonds and Clemens for the Hall of Fame is, above all, an insult to all the good guys who played fair.
Boglioli, Wright, Jezek, Siering, Babashoff, Bryant, Sapenter, Ingram, Jiles, McMillan, Shorter. Remember the names, robbed by other athletes using drugs. Multiply by 100 or more and those were the honest baseball players robbed. To let in obvious dopers is not just to excuse them, but it is, effectively, an endorsement of drugs: and foremost, a slap in the face to all athletes, in all sports, who lost whatever their gold medal was to cheaters.
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And we know this how, exactly?
It had facts and historical perspective and stuff. Deford should check it out.
Don't know, but Young is often brilliant so it wouldn't surprise me if he came up with it. Now that I think of it, Neil Young is a great lyricist, isn't he? It's weird that I never really think of him like that.
Frank Deford, the journalist who is concerned that the hard-hitting, fact-based investigative journalism of his day is going to disappear because lazy, fact-free assertions are rewarded on the Internet, made some lazy, fact-free assertions in his latest weekly NPR rant...
The lyrics on After the Gold Rush could pretty much stand alone as poetry.
He's a better lyricist than Dylan, imo, and a great songwriter all round. One of the cooler people on the planet.
And neither are as good as Steven Malkmus! Naw, I kid, sorta. I think at a certain level of brilliance, it becomes impossible to rank guys like this. They're just on the team.
Given that, could we do a Neil Young lyrics hijack? What has always amazed me is that he wrote what may be his best song when he was 19 (Sugar Mountain), and it's not like he peaked early. He's the Mike Trout of song writers.
Pocahantas is great of course. Love is a Rose has always been a personal favorite.
MALKMUS! Al Green wrote a few great songs. There are probably a bunch of great songwriters I have no idea of because they weren't performers of note. The Hold Steady guy is a good story teller, which I think is an underrated skill. I like Jarvis Cocker, a lot, too. Actually, I probably have a laughably idiosyncratic list of who I consider great, so I should probably sit this one out...Just please, no one say Bono. DO NOT SAY BONO!
and the finger
Cover me with the thought
that pulled the trigger
Think of me
as one you'd never figured
Would fade away so young
With so much left undone
Remember me to my love,
I know I'll miss her. "
Well Bono of course.
I tend to be a non-snob when it comes to music. My tastes are heavily 1980s so even if I wasn't tweaking Shooty I'd mention U2 as one of my faves. The Smiths, Depeche Mode and The Cure are others I was always a huge fan of. I don't know if the Morrissey, Martin and Robert would qualify as people's ideas of "great songwriters" but they certainly made up a big part of the soundtrack of my impressionable teen years.
Bono has a genius ability of stringing cliches together. I like to believe it's The Edge that makes U2 hum.
Billy Bragg comes to mind as well.
Good list to start. Depending on style preferences of course -- Mick Jagger and Keith Richard, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, Doc Pomus and Mort Shuman, Ellie Greenwich and Jeff Barry, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Laura Nyro, Elvis Costello, Andy Partridge, Robyn Hitchcock, Nick Lowe, and Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe from R.E.M. all come to mind offhand. Also pairing Gerry Goffin with Carole King makes sense in addition to King alone.
Even most U2 fans, though, don't seem to rank Bono's lyrics as one of the band's greatest strengths, outside of maybe a handful of songs.
Thom Yorke is an incredible lyricist and needs to be on the above list. Peter Gabriel is an oft-overlooked lyricist, too.
Speaking of Neil Young, anyone else see Neil Young Journeys, the concert film that's playing theatrically now? It's padded with a lot of pointless scenes of Young driving around rural Ontario, but it's amazing how strong of a performer he still is. The concert is from his Le Noise tour, during which he performed solo, without a backup band, and even Demme's attempts to #### it all up with asinine camera angles don't really blunt the strength of the performance. Kind of a crappy movie in some ways but I'm not sure watching Young play is ever really a waste of time.
I agree with that. "One" is right up there. "All I want is you." "Stay."
Gregg Turner's mom.
Hmm ... I dunno. "All I Want Is You" especially seems like it gets most of its power from the musical arrangement, and not as much from the lyrics. I'd probably agree with "One", the great virtue of which is that it's not terribly specific, and actually suits a range of emotional states. "Stay" is a lovely song, but the lyrics have never meant much to me.
I think Bono's lyrical peak was on The Joshua Tree album, with Achtung Baby probably coming in second. He had some great moments earlier (e.g., "Drowning Man" on the War album) and later ("Stuck in a Moment" is the rare U2 song with good lyrics and crappy music), but over the last few albums, he's been kind of awful lyrically and his early years with the band were often only marginally better.
I got you, babe.
I got you, babe.
This made me laugh.
I'd also add Jimmy Page to the list.
I think I like The Kinks better than those bands, but those other bands have been so drilled into my ears since birth I am just sick of them by now, whereas the Kinks have, mercifully from my POV, not received as much airplay.
Willie Nelson and Kris Kristofferson are obvious candidates, too. David Allan Coe if you like your country to be SUPER redneck. What a life that guy has had.
Amanda Palmer, you mean. Amanda Plummer is an actress.
Palmer . . . and yes! And the Evelyn Evelyn album is a gem.
For rappers, Chuck D.
Agreed, and also with Holland/Dozier/Holland and Marvin Gaye. Along these lines, surprised nobody mentioned Stevie Wonder or Ashford and Simpson yet.
Edit: Bachsluch got in while I was a-typin'.
"I Really Like Sonic Youth, And I Really Want to Have Sex With You"
Neil Diamond
I would ask for a coke, but Larry Mahnken apparently frowns on such things.
This Heat, Pere Ubu, Outsiders, Nation of Ulysses, Mars, The Trojans, The Black Dice, Todd Terry, the Germs, Section 25, Althea and Donna, Sexual Harrassment, a-ha, Pere Ubu, Dorothy Ashby, PIL, the Fania All-Stars, the Bar-Kays, the Human League, the Normal, Lou Reed, Scott Walker, Monks, Niagra,
Joy Division, Lower 48, the Association, Sun Ra,
Scientists, Royal Trux, 10cc,
Eric B. and Rakim, Index, Basic Channel, Soulsonic Force, Juan Atkins, David Axelrod, Electric Prunes, Gil! Scott! Heron!, the Slits, Faust, Mantronix, Pharaoh Sanders and the Fire Engines, the Swans, the Soft Cell, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics, the Sonics
Townes Van Zandt
and the man himself, Chuck Berry
"Odelay" and "Sea Change" were pretty good. The last album of his I picked up was "Guero", which was meh.
Who did "I Write the Songs", was that Barry White or Barry Manilow?
Was Michael Jackson a primary songwriter?
The latter. This is probably the first time in history that the two have been confused.
Huh. Because we were correcting a mistake? Whatev. A coke for you, sir.
And how did we miss listing Frank Zappa?
"I Write the Songs" was actually written by Bruce Johnston of the Beach Boys, a guy not known for his songwriting.
And I may be over-selling him based on his last two albums, but Dave Longstreth is pretty freaking amazing.
The names I quoted are actually an excerpt from the list concluding great LCD Soundsystem's "Losing My Edge" (simply because the singer's diction made me think of Bob Evans' listing of songwriters), but I think you'll find a fair number of (ugh) "hipsters" here who every definitely know those names & their oeuvres.
Stan Ridgway's a worthy nomination, too. I actually thought of both Eldritch & Steele as well.
Obligatory, assuming I've missed previous mentions: Mark E. Smith.
Also John Fogarty (CCR) and James Brown should be mentioned. And depending on taste, Billy Joel, Paul Anka, David Bowie, Jackson Browne, the Gibb Brothers, Gamble and Huff, Freddie Mercury, Van Morrison, Randy Newman, Roy Orbison, and Burt Bacharach.
Correct, B. Wilson was the composer and worked with a wide variety of lyricists during his Beach Boys career. Van Dyke Parks was but one of many and is probably best known for his work on the SMiLE project. You may or may not know that Brian Wilson was a good field, no hit center fielder on his high school baseball team.
Ray Davies, who was the lead vocalist, wrote most of the Kinks songs that got played on the radio (You Really Got Me, Lola, etc.). His brother Dave was the lead guitarist; he usually wrote one or maybe two songs per album. If anything they tended to be even more quirky and offbeat than Ray's.
For "Stepping Out" alone, he probably needs drowning.
For my taste, Jackson's first three albums ("Look Sharp!," "I'm the Man," and "Beat Crazy") contain a lot of worthwhile listens and also hold together well as albums. And though he didn't write a thing on it, "Jumpin' Jive" is kind of fun. Once he gets bogged down into jazz stylings and such ("Night and Day," "Body and Soul"), not so much for me.
So can his wife, Aimee Mann. I saw them do a duet show about a decade ago, and their between-song comments were terse but very witty. For the encore each did the other's most famous song - he sang "Voices Carry", and she sang "No Myth".
Another songwriter who could really turn a phrase, and was a great singer to boot, was the late Kirsty MacColl.
Lord, yes. Excellent.
But I prefer talking about hilariously terrible lyric examples, sub category:
Songs that rhyme the same word with itself.
1) War Pigs / Black Sabbath - "Generals gathered in their masses, just witches at black masses"
2) Take a Walk on the Wild Side / Lou Reed "But she never lost her head, even when she was giving head"
Hmmmm... I used to have a list of theres... there are a couple more obscure punk songs where they rhyme the exact same word with same meaning twice... I think maybe a Donnas song and a Sex Pistols song. I'll remember them in a couple hours I bet.
Possibly worst rock lyrics of ALL TIME:
"Trapped Under Ice" - "No release from this cryonic state, What is this? I've been stricken by fate"
early Metallica. Really. Trapped under ice? That's your nightmare? You can read the whole song here
Also seems like a good place to discuss "Ironic". I actually like the song, despite it's absurdity. Ironically.
Yep, and if you are focusing on lyrics, then Ray is your man. Although Dave did write Strangers, which is one their best.
And Willie Nelson, already mentioned, wrote "Crazy" about 50 years ago.
Younger (than Willie) Texans of interest include Steve Earle and Hayes Carll.
Not a Texan, but essential, is John Prine. An enormous influence on current singer-songwriters. If I had to pick his best song, I would name "Hello in There," but there are lots to choose from.
You're going to be hard-pressed to top "Surfin' Bird" by The Trashmen.
http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_trashmen/surfin_bird.html
And then listen to Blood on the Tracks by the Folksmen!
Technically, I doubt it would appear on the lyric sheet, but "Insomni-omni-omni-omni-omni" from Megadeth's "Insomnia" was a terrible, terrible decision.
I need to add some Trashmen to the Ipod. They would really liven up a shuffle. Anybody else have records they've bought just for the purposes of shuffle flavor? I have Truck Drivers' Boogie, Sesame Street's Greatest Hits, Whodini and a few others for that purpose. I would never listen to these albums front to back but I like it one one of the songs pop up randomly.
Man, I messed up drilling the hole in the record. Didn't get it centered properly and the album won't play. It just teeters crazily on the spindle.
Steve Earle did a Townes Van Zandt tribute CD (Townes) a few years ago and also named one of his sons (Justin Townes Earle) after Van Zandt. For me anyway, Earle also gets credit for being one of the only "country" musicians who is not an out and out reactionary.
Lou Reed, I'll give you. But Ozzy? And bad puns are still bad lyrics.
And Squeeze squeezed out quite a few little gems on the lyric side -- also many that were self-consciously clever.
Surely somebody mentioned Paul Simon but I didn't see that name either.
Bob Evans, #40.
Yeaarrgghhhh, in #13, the post that started this whole line of inquiry.
Many years ago, I was involved with a project whereby I felt the need to study how to improvise clever, meaningful, and funny lyrics. When it came to pop and rock, my go-to model was Elvis Costello (specifically, his use of thematic punning). So, so good.
I adore what Merritt can do (69LS was the only album I ever did anything like 'camping out' for), but the last few discs left me blah. Always self-consciously clever (to rip from Walt), but no longer all that interesting.
I do think it's "neat" that there seemed to be an inverse relationship b/w the quality of Mann's albums to her popularity, pre-Magnolia anyway. Voices Carry is a good song, but I probably wouldn't put it in her top 20.
Don Van Vliet aka Captain Beefheart (RIP), the lyric-writing collective in early Wire (Colin Newman/Bruce Gilbert).
For cosmic meta-Rosicrucian hippie/junkie esoterica, there is the late great Judee Sill.
GZA and Ghostface )the best lyrical performances on Wu-Tang albums themselves are almost always Inspectah Desk's, though), Kanye has made his career on silly, silly puns which I'll always eat up, Ice Cube and Chuck D when they actually cared, and even though I kind of can't stand his music and personality, Nas can always pull out a backbreaking verse when he wants. But... I have to go with Andre 3000 as #1. Little else was as off-the-wall great as the first time that I heard "Spaceships don't come equipped with rearview mirrors".
Phil Ochs
Stephen Sondheim
Harry Nilsson
Lennon & McCartney
Paul Simon
Laura Nyro
Roger Miller
Carole King & Gerry Goffin
TMBG
GZA - listen to this clip starting at around 5:45
I assume that the recent DVD release (available, last I looked, only from the originating studio in a print-on-demand type arrangement) is the full version.
Au Pairs' "Come Again" is one of my favorite performances.
Pete Shelley's Buzzcocks tracks.
Ian Curtis.
Jon Langford.
Jeffrey Lee Pierce.
Gina Birch & Ana da Silva of the Raincoats.
There's a modern-day folkie named Dan Bern whose first album, from around 15 years ago, I think highly of. Haven't followed what he's done since, really, but I gather he's about to come out with a CD (not sure if it'a an album or EP) of baseball songs.
I love The Who, was wayyyyyy into them as a teenager, but Townshend's lyrics are often seriously embarrassing now. "Love, Reign O'er Me"? Eesh.
Also, Oingo Boingo is one of my favorite bands of all time, but I don't think I'd place them among the sublime songwriters.
One of my favorite Kinks songs. I wasn't aware of the song until watching "The Darjeeling Limited". Wes Anderson's use of "Strangers" and "This Time Tomorrow" are what really turned me on to the Kinks. Prior to that I only knew their big hits.
As for lyricists, Elvis Costello gets my vote for the best ever.
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