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Friday, February 14, 2014

Delaware Online: Roy Halladay Brings a Fresh Perspective.

This year, however, Halladay’s stay in Clearwater will be a shorter one. The recently retired two-time Cy Young winner is a guest instructor at Phillies camp and will stick around for a couple of weeks before heading home.

Both Phillies manager Ryne Sandberg and general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. raved about having Halladay around.

“He has been outstanding,” Sandberg said. “This is something he is very good at. Sometimes it is tough as a player to coach and talk to teammates. What I’ve seen is he’s full of knowledge. He’s all in.”

Kind of a puff piece, but it brings to mind some Q’s to which I have no A’s:

(1) Has anybody ever won 2 Cy Youngs without making the HoF eventually?
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?

Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 02:16 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, piffle, pitching

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   1. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4657018)
(1) Has anybody ever won 2 Cy Youngs without making the HoF eventually?


Denny McLain

Unless he gets back on track, Tim Lincecum will have a tough time making the Hall.

   2. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4657019)
Unless he gets back on track, Tim Lincecum will have a tough time making the Hall.


Johan Santana has an uphill climb as well.
   3. RJ in TO Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:27 PM (#4657021)
Bret Saberhagen has already been eliminated by the writers, and it seems like Johan Sanatan will be as well, once he makes it to the ballot.
   4. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:35 PM (#4657031)
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?


Just because of the recency of his time with the club I suspect he has friends on the Phillies and in the organization. I suspect he does not know people with the Blue Jays nearly as well and is just more comfortable with the Phils.
   5. Good cripple hitter Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4657060)
Just because of the recency of his time with the club I suspect he has friends on the Phillies and in the organization. I suspect he does not know people with the Blue Jays nearly as well and is just more comfortable with the Phils.


Could be that the Phillies made a better offer or were willing to let him do more with the players. Still, it seems odd that he signed a one day contract to retire with the Blue Jays, then turned around and started working for the Phillies again.
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 04:45 PM (#4657090)

Guys who have won 2 (and only 2) Cy Young Awards:

Bob Gibson - in HOF
Tom Glavine - in HOF
Gaylord Perry - in HOF

Denny McLain - not in
Bret Saberhagen - not in

Roy Halladay - not yet eligible

Clayton Kershaw - still active
Tim Lincecum - still active
Johan Santana - still active

For what it's worth, Walter Johnson, Hal Newhouser, and Carl Hubbell each won 2 MVPs before there was a Cy Young Award, and all are in the HOF. Newhouser is not a terrible comp for Halladay in terms of career length and quality.
   7. Jim Wisinski Posted: February 14, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4657154)
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?


Clearwater is closer to the airport than Dunedin is.
   8. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 07:22 PM (#4657163)
Newhouser is not a terrible comp for Halladay in terms of career length and quality.


Or wouldn't be if he hadn't won his MVPs pitching against what amounts to indy league competition.
   9. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 07:56 PM (#4657170)
Guys who have won 2 (and only 2) Cy Young Awards:

Bob Gibson - in HOF
Tom Glavine - in HOF
Gaylord Perry - in HOF

Denny McLain - not in
Bret Saberhagen - not in

Roy Halladay - not yet eligible

Clayton Kershaw - still active
Tim Lincecum - still active
Johan Santana - still active


This was the sort of discussion I was hoping to stimulate.

I would also encourage everybody to look at Saberhagen's B-R page. The man had a hell of a career, and a hell of a weird career. Those Boston years at the end were fascinating.
   10. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 08:01 PM (#4657173)
Interesting trivia bit: Saberhagen's Cy Young years were also the only years he won 20 games.
   11. gehrig97 Posted: February 15, 2014 at 12:16 AM (#4657219)
Saberhagen really did have a fascinating career. Fireballing CY Young/WS MVP as a 21-yr old, attendant arm problems from (presumably) overuse, two cy youngs by the age of 25, arm miseries and countless stints on the DL for the next 8 seasons (with a relatively healthy --and superb-- 1994 thrown in), out of the game at 31, back in the game and very effective at 34, out of the game again at 36, one last shot at 37. His 1989 Cy Young season might have been the best AL pitching season of the 1980s (with Clemens, of course, in the running for his 86-87 campaigns).

I truly despised him when he was with the Mets (I refer here to the firecrackers and bleach incidents, for those old enough to remember), but grew to admire and actively root for him over time because the man would just not quit. His mind allowed him to pitch long after his arm gave out. He would sometimes grimace on the mound after delivering a pitch--you practically felt his pain when he threw. He had supernatural control --really, only Wells, Maddux and Lee compare in recent memory-- and toward the end he was getting people out with 80 mph two-seamers (placed exactly where he wanted).

It's criminal that he and David Cone fell off the HOF ballot after one vote. Not that either of them belong in the hall--but both had careers worthy of celebration through consideration.
   12. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 15, 2014 at 12:19 AM (#4657221)
Supposedly he is very fond of Philadelphia/Delaware Valley. Honestly I was a bit surprised he signed that one-day contract with Toronto.

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