Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, February 14, 2014

Delaware Online: Roy Halladay Brings a Fresh Perspective.

This year, however, Halladay’s stay in Clearwater will be a shorter one. The recently retired two-time Cy Young winner is a guest instructor at Phillies camp and will stick around for a couple of weeks before heading home.

Both Phillies manager Ryne Sandberg and general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. raved about having Halladay around.

“He has been outstanding,” Sandberg said. “This is something he is very good at. Sometimes it is tough as a player to coach and talk to teammates. What I’ve seen is he’s full of knowledge. He’s all in.”

Kind of a puff piece, but it brings to mind some Q’s to which I have no A’s:

(1) Has anybody ever won 2 Cy Youngs without making the HoF eventually?
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?

Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 01:16 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: phillies, piffle, pitching

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Don August(us) Cesar Geronimo Berroa Posted: February 14, 2014 at 02:22 PM (#4657018)
(1) Has anybody ever won 2 Cy Youngs without making the HoF eventually?


Denny McLain

Unless he gets back on track, Tim Lincecum will have a tough time making the Hall.

   2. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 14, 2014 at 02:26 PM (#4657019)
Unless he gets back on track, Tim Lincecum will have a tough time making the Hall.


Johan Santana has an uphill climb as well.
   3. RJ in TO Posted: February 14, 2014 at 02:27 PM (#4657021)
Bret Saberhagen has already been eliminated by the writers, and it seems like Johan Sanatan will be as well, once he makes it to the ballot.
   4. Jose Remains The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: February 14, 2014 at 02:35 PM (#4657031)
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?


Just because of the recency of his time with the club I suspect he has friends on the Phillies and in the organization. I suspect he does not know people with the Blue Jays nearly as well and is just more comfortable with the Phils.
   5. Gch exhales the vast drunken folly of Epicurus Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:11 PM (#4657060)
Just because of the recency of his time with the club I suspect he has friends on the Phillies and in the organization. I suspect he does not know people with the Blue Jays nearly as well and is just more comfortable with the Phils.


Could be that the Phillies made a better offer or were willing to let him do more with the players. Still, it seems odd that he signed a one day contract to retire with the Blue Jays, then turned around and started working for the Phillies again.
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4657090)

Guys who have won 2 (and only 2) Cy Young Awards:

Bob Gibson - in HOF
Tom Glavine - in HOF
Gaylord Perry - in HOF

Denny McLain - not in
Bret Saberhagen - not in

Roy Halladay - not yet eligible

Clayton Kershaw - still active
Tim Lincecum - still active
Johan Santana - still active

For what it's worth, Walter Johnson, Hal Newhouser, and Carl Hubbell each won 2 MVPs before there was a Cy Young Award, and all are in the HOF. Newhouser is not a terrible comp for Halladay in terms of career length and quality.
   7. Jim Wisinski Posted: February 14, 2014 at 05:56 PM (#4657154)
(2) Why the Phils and not the Jays?


Clearwater is closer to the airport than Dunedin is.
   8. PASTE Transcends Almost All Generations (Zeth) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 06:22 PM (#4657163)
Newhouser is not a terrible comp for Halladay in terms of career length and quality.


Or wouldn't be if he hadn't won his MVPs pitching against what amounts to indy league competition.
   9. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 06:56 PM (#4657170)
Guys who have won 2 (and only 2) Cy Young Awards:

Bob Gibson - in HOF
Tom Glavine - in HOF
Gaylord Perry - in HOF

Denny McLain - not in
Bret Saberhagen - not in

Roy Halladay - not yet eligible

Clayton Kershaw - still active
Tim Lincecum - still active
Johan Santana - still active


This was the sort of discussion I was hoping to stimulate.

I would also encourage everybody to look at Saberhagen's B-R page. The man had a hell of a career, and a hell of a weird career. Those Boston years at the end were fascinating.
   10. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: February 14, 2014 at 07:01 PM (#4657173)
Interesting trivia bit: Saberhagen's Cy Young years were also the only years he won 20 games.
   11. gehrig97 Posted: February 14, 2014 at 11:16 PM (#4657219)
Saberhagen really did have a fascinating career. Fireballing CY Young/WS MVP as a 21-yr old, attendant arm problems from (presumably) overuse, two cy youngs by the age of 25, arm miseries and countless stints on the DL for the next 8 seasons (with a relatively healthy --and superb-- 1994 thrown in), out of the game at 31, back in the game and very effective at 34, out of the game again at 36, one last shot at 37. His 1989 Cy Young season might have been the best AL pitching season of the 1980s (with Clemens, of course, in the running for his 86-87 campaigns).

I truly despised him when he was with the Mets (I refer here to the firecrackers and bleach incidents, for those old enough to remember), but grew to admire and actively root for him over time because the man would just not quit. His mind allowed him to pitch long after his arm gave out. He would sometimes grimace on the mound after delivering a pitch--you practically felt his pain when he threw. He had supernatural control --really, only Wells, Maddux and Lee compare in recent memory-- and toward the end he was getting people out with 80 mph two-seamers (placed exactly where he wanted).

It's criminal that he and David Cone fell off the HOF ballot after one vote. Not that either of them belong in the hall--but both had careers worthy of celebration through consideration.
   12. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 14, 2014 at 11:19 PM (#4657221)
Supposedly he is very fond of Philadelphia/Delaware Valley. Honestly I was a bit surprised he signed that one-day contract with Toronto.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Vegas Watch
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 5-24-16
(97 - 9:32pm, May 24)
Last: Bote Man makes baseball fun again

NewsblogOTP 2016 May 23: Baseball owners hear from Democratic, Republican strategists
(360 - 9:31pm, May 24)
Last: Bitter Mouse, Space Tyrant

NewsblogOT: NBA Playoffs Thread 2016
(2306 - 9:23pm, May 24)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogSan Diego Gay Men’s Chorus Humiliated in Homophobic ‘Nightmare’ at Padres Game
(218 - 9:16pm, May 24)
Last: bobm

NewsblogMission Impossible: African-Americans & analytics
(44 - 9:15pm, May 24)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

Sox TherapyTalkin' Baseball
(10 - 8:29pm, May 24)
Last: Jose Remains The Most Absurd Thing on the Site

NewsblogThornography » Bill Lee is reportedly running for governor of Vermont
(3 - 8:15pm, May 24)
Last: Betts, Bogaerts, and D Price(GGC)

NewsblogMarlins Sue Season Ticketholders, Vendors Bankrupted by Small Crowds
(45 - 8:07pm, May 24)
Last: Where have you gone Brady Anderson?

NewsblogTony Gwynn’s Family’s Lawsuit Against Big Tobacco
(21 - 8:03pm, May 24)
Last: bigglou115

NewsblogOT: Wrestling Thread November 2014
(1577 - 7:47pm, May 24)
Last: vagab0nd is still a champion

NewsblogNYP: Bartolo Colon told Nationals: ‘Throw it down the middle, [I’m] not swinging’
(8 - 7:42pm, May 24)
Last: Poster Nutbag

NewsblogBraves trade minor leaguers for draft pick (and Matusz)
(17 - 7:25pm, May 24)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 5-24-2016
(23 - 7:13pm, May 24)
Last: Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee)

NewsblogRangers put Choo, Stubbs on DL; Gallo recalled | MLB.com
(4 - 6:48pm, May 24)
Last: Davo's Favorite Tacos Are Moose Tacos

NewsblogFull Count » Red Sox reliever Carson Smith will have Tommy John surgery Tuesday
(20 - 6:44pm, May 24)
Last: Cargo Cultist

Page rendered in 0.1601 seconds
47 querie(s) executed